From: Mike S. <oop...@gm...> - 2009-01-16 23:31:48
|
Does anyone have any objections to me uploading the Windows binary installer for 0.10.0 to Launchpad? Also, since I got Inno Setup to compile the development versions, perhaps I could post binary snapshots of 0.10.1? Mike |
From: Barry G. <bar...@ho...> - 2009-01-17 00:54:03
|
I think that would be up to Fabien. I think that the current svn version is at a stage where it could be immediately released as 0.10.1 as the last version built with Qt 4.4.3 and then future work could be carried out with Qt 4.5.0. The only Windows problems I have come across with the latest build are the problem with the angle measure plug in and the Windows XP problem I have in loading all the star catalogues, not present with Vista or Linux. I have not been able to build with sound but I think Matthew was able to make a windows binary with sound. Barry Gerdes Beaumont Hills Observatory S 33' 41' 44" E 150' 56' 32" 12" F10 GPS Polar mounted Home Page http://www.geocities.com/barrykgerdes > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:31:43 -0600> From: oop...@gm...> To: ste...@li...> Subject: [Stellarium-pubdevel] Launchpad downloads> > Does anyone have any objections to me uploading the Windows binary> installer for 0.10.0 to Launchpad? Also, since I got Inno Setup to> compile the development versions, perhaps I could post binary> snapshots of 0.10.1?> > Mike> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> This SF.net email is sponsored by:> SourcForge Community> SourceForge wants to tell your story.> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword> _______________________________________________> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list> Ste...@li...> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel _________________________________________________________________ Time for change? Find your ideal job with SEEK. http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Atl%3Ask%3Anine%3A0%3Ahottag%3Achange&_t=757263783&_r=SEEK_tagline&_m=EXT |
From: Mike S. <oop...@gm...> - 2009-01-17 03:04:32
|
Well, I'm certainly not talking about a release binary, or even a release candidate. I just mean a development snapshot, since setting up the compilation environment on Windows is a pain. It would give us more feedback, and I can't see how it would hurt anything. Actually, I would have uploaded it already; I just wanted to make sure I didn't step on anyone's toes. As for releasing 0.10.1 - Fabien still seems to be working on that networking code. The translations might not be ready, as well, I'm not sure. Since some of the networking code now depends on Qt 4.5, maybe we could do what Barry suggests and branch off the 4.5-only code, then release 0.10.1 as-is? Then again, I'm not opposed to releasing with 4.5. On Linux it might be a problem, since the repos certainly haven't picked up the beta yet, but we distribute the DLLs on Windows ourselves. Just a thought. Mike On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 6:53 PM, Barry Gerdes <bar...@ho...> wrote: > I think that would be up to Fabien. I think that the current svn version is > at a stage where it could be immediately released as 0.10.1 as the last > version built with Qt 4.4.3 and then future work could be carried out with > Qt 4.5.0. The only Windows problems I have come across with the latest build > are the problem with the angle measure plug in and the Windows XP problem I > have in loading all the star catalogues, not present with Vista or Linux. > > I have not been able to build with sound but I think Matthew was able to > make a windows binary with sound. > > > Barry Gerdes > Beaumont Hills Observatory > S 33' 41' 44" E 150' 56' 32" > 12" F10 GPS Polar mounted > Home Page http://www.geocities.com/barrykgerdes > > > > >> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:31:43 -0600 >> From: oop...@gm... >> To: ste...@li... >> Subject: [Stellarium-pubdevel] Launchpad downloads >> >> Does anyone have any objections to me uploading the Windows binary >> installer for 0.10.0 to Launchpad? Also, since I got Inno Setup to >> compile the development versions, perhaps I could post binary >> snapshots of 0.10.1? >> >> Mike >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: >> SourcForge Community >> SourceForge wants to tell your story. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword >> _______________________________________________ >> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list >> Ste...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > > ________________________________ > Find your ideal job with SEEK Time for change? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > _______________________________________________ > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > Ste...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > > |
From: F. C. <fab...@go...> - 2009-01-17 12:45:29
|
Hi Mike and Barry, On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Mike Storm <oop...@gm...> wrote: > Well, I'm certainly not talking about a release binary, or even a > release candidate. I just mean a development snapshot, since setting > up the compilation environment on Windows is a pain. It would give us > more feedback, and I can't see how it would hurt anything. Actually, I > would have uploaded it already; I just wanted to make sure I didn't > step on anyone's toes. I am totally OK for having snapshots for developments versions or release candidates, especially on windows, but also on ubuntu (on Launchpad there is the so called Personal Package Archive) or mac. For me it's also OK if we have a try on Launchpad instead of sourceforge for file storage for that. But for the time being it should be clear to users that the official download point is sourceforge. > As for releasing 0.10.1 - Fabien still seems to be working on that > networking code. The translations might not be ready, as well, I'm not > sure. Since some of the networking code now depends on Qt 4.5, maybe > we could do what Barry suggests and branch off the 4.5-only code, then > release 0.10.1 as-is? Then again, I'm not opposed to releasing with > 4.5. On Linux it might be a problem, since the repos certainly haven't > picked up the beta yet, but we distribute the DLLs on Windows > ourselves. Just a thought. My tests with Qt4.5 were mostly to make sure that stellarium 0.10.1 will not fail when distribs upgrade to 4.5, after some bug fixes it now seems OK except some tab icon rendering problems on linux, but I currently see no reasons to release it even with Qt 4.4.3, it should work also fine. As you noticed, I was testing network caching with qt 4.5, but it seems not to be very stable, I also wanted to check whether this very annoying network bug (that I reported at http://www.qtsoftware.com/developer/task-tracker/index_html?id=239098&method=entry) was fixed, but it's not in the beta. So I guess the multi-resolution DSS background feature release will have to wait one more version for being included :( Apart from that, I uploaded the last translation .pot to rosetta, and there are many new strings to translate so we need to motivate the translators. >From now on, we should feature-freeze the SVN version and work on removing the last known bugs. If everything goes well, we can maybe achieve making the release next week :) Fabien > Mike > > On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 6:53 PM, Barry Gerdes <bar...@ho...> wrote: >> I think that would be up to Fabien. I think that the current svn version is >> at a stage where it could be immediately released as 0.10.1 as the last >> version built with Qt 4.4.3 and then future work could be carried out with >> Qt 4.5.0. The only Windows problems I have come across with the latest build >> are the problem with the angle measure plug in and the Windows XP problem I >> have in loading all the star catalogues, not present with Vista or Linux. >> >> I have not been able to build with sound but I think Matthew was able to >> make a windows binary with sound. >> >> >> Barry Gerdes >> Beaumont Hills Observatory >> S 33' 41' 44" E 150' 56' 32" >> 12" F10 GPS Polar mounted >> Home Page http://www.geocities.com/barrykgerdes >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:31:43 -0600 >>> From: oop...@gm... >>> To: ste...@li... >>> Subject: [Stellarium-pubdevel] Launchpad downloads >>> >>> Does anyone have any objections to me uploading the Windows binary >>> installer for 0.10.0 to Launchpad? Also, since I got Inno Setup to >>> compile the development versions, perhaps I could post binary >>> snapshots of 0.10.1? >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: >>> SourcForge Community >>> SourceForge wants to tell your story. >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list >>> Ste...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel >> >> ________________________________ >> Find your ideal job with SEEK Time for change? >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: >> SourcForge Community >> SourceForge wants to tell your story. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword >> _______________________________________________ >> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list >> Ste...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > _______________________________________________ > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > Ste...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > |
From: Barry G. <bar...@ho...> - 2009-01-17 20:49:30
|
Hi Mike and Fabien Great! Making Windows builds and binary packages are mere routine for me now. I do one ever morning while I am getting breakfast. Takes between 5 and 20 minutes depending on the amount of change. I did not mention before but I make regular binaries of Stellarium and place on CD's. These I hand out to friends and relies who visit. I also do a few computer repairs for these same people and I always install my latest build on their machines before they are returned and instruct them on how to use it. My binaries are much larger than the normal distribution binary because I add all my extra nebula textures etc. I also include the User manual and star catalogues up to 7. These will fit on a standard CD. If any one wants the 8th catalogue I also make the same data on a DVD. So Mike when you put a binary on launchpad let me know so I can test it for you. Oh and if anyone wants one of my CD's or DVD's let me know where to send it. Barry Gerdes Beaumont Hills Observatory S 33' 41' 44" E 150' 56' 32" 12" F10 GPS Polar mounted Home Page http://www.geocities.com/barrykgerdes > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:42:58 +0100> From: fab...@go...> To: ste...@li...> Subject: Re: [Stellarium-pubdevel] Launchpad downloads> > Hi Mike and Barry,> > On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Mike Storm <oop...@gm...> wrote:> > Well, I'm certainly not talking about a release binary, or even a> > release candidate. I just mean a development snapshot, since setting> > up the compilation environment on Windows is a pain. It would give us> > more feedback, and I can't see how it would hurt anything. Actually, I> > would have uploaded it already; I just wanted to make sure I didn't> > step on anyone's toes.> > I am totally OK for having snapshots for developments versions or> release candidates, especially on windows, but also on ubuntu (on> Launchpad there is the so called Personal Package Archive) or mac.> For me it's also OK if we have a try on Launchpad instead of> sourceforge for file storage for that. But for the time being it> should be clear to users that the official download point is> sourceforge.> > > As for releasing 0.10.1 - Fabien still seems to be working on that> > networking code. The translations might not be ready, as well, I'm not> > sure. Since some of the networking code now depends on Qt 4.5, maybe> > we could do what Barry suggests and branch off the 4.5-only code, then> > release 0.10.1 as-is? Then again, I'm not opposed to releasing with> > 4.5. On Linux it might be a problem, since the repos certainly haven't> > picked up the beta yet, but we distribute the DLLs on Windows> > ourselves. Just a thought.> > My tests with Qt4.5 were mostly to make sure that stellarium 0.10.1> will not fail when distribs upgrade to 4.5, after some bug fixes it> now seems OK except some tab icon rendering problems on linux, but I> currently see no reasons to release it even with Qt 4.4.3, it should> work also fine.> > As you noticed, I was testing network caching with qt 4.5, but it> seems not to be very stable, I also wanted to check whether this very> annoying network bug (that I reported at> http://www.qtsoftware.com/developer/task-tracker/index_html?id=239098&method=entry)> was fixed, but it's not in the beta. So I guess the multi-resolution> DSS background feature release will have to wait one more version for> being included :(> > Apart from that, I uploaded the last translation .pot to rosetta, and> there are many new strings to translate so we need to motivate the> translators.> > >From now on, we should feature-freeze the SVN version and work on> removing the last known bugs. If everything goes well, we can maybe> achieve making the release next week :)> > Fabien> > > Mike> >> > On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 6:53 PM, Barry Gerdes <bar...@ho...> wrote:> >> I think that would be up to Fabien. I think that the current svn version is> >> at a stage where it could be immediately released as 0.10.1 as the last> >> version built with Qt 4.4.3 and then future work could be carried out with> >> Qt 4.5.0. The only Windows problems I have come across with the latest build> >> are the problem with the angle measure plug in and the Windows XP problem I> >> have in loading all the star catalogues, not present with Vista or Linux.> >>> >> I have not been able to build with sound but I think Matthew was able to> >> make a windows binary with sound.> >>> >>> >> Barry Gerdes> >> Beaumont Hills Observatory> >> S 33' 41' 44" E 150' 56' 32"> >> 12" F10 GPS Polar mounted> >> Home Page http://www.geocities.com/barrykgerdes> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:31:43 -0600> >>> From: oop...@gm...> >>> To: ste...@li...> >>> Subject: [Stellarium-pubdevel] Launchpad downloads> >>>> >>> Does anyone have any objections to me uploading the Windows binary> >>> installer for 0.10.0 to Launchpad? Also, since I got Inno Setup to> >>> compile the development versions, perhaps I could post binary> >>> snapshots of 0.10.1?> >>>> >>> Mike> >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by:> >>> SourcForge Community> >>> SourceForge wants to tell your story.> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword> >>> _______________________________________________> >>> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list> >>> Ste...@li...> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel> >>> >> ________________________________> >> Find your ideal job with SEEK Time for change?> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> >> This SF.net email is sponsored by:> >> SourcForge Community> >> SourceForge wants to tell your story.> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword> >> _______________________________________________> >> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list> >> Ste...@li...> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel> >>> >>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > This SF.net email is sponsored by:> > SourcForge Community> > SourceForge wants to tell your story.> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword> > _______________________________________________> > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list> > Ste...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> This SF.net email is sponsored by:> SourcForge Community> SourceForge wants to tell your story.> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword> _______________________________________________> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list> Ste...@li...> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel _________________________________________________________________ Messenger's gift to you! Download free emoticons today! http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=669758 |
From: Mike S. <oop...@gm...> - 2009-01-18 20:38:33
|
On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Fabien Chéreau <fab...@go...> wrote: > My tests with Qt4.5 were mostly to make sure that stellarium 0.10.1 > will not fail when distribs upgrade to 4.5, after some bug fixes it > now seems OK except some tab icon rendering problems on linux, but I > currently see no reasons to release it even with Qt 4.4.3, it should > work also fine. I agree, with reservations. There are practical concerns to be addressed. As I stated before, Qt versions aren't an issue on Windows, since we distribute the DLLs ourselves. However, on Linux, Qt 4.5 isn't even considered for any repositories yet since it's still in beta, and Qt itself doesn't offer any binary packages. Can we really ask Linux users to download the entire 4.5 beta and compile it from source (which took 2 hours on my 6-month-old laptop), then figure out how to get cmake to use the new version? Not to mention that a deb or rpm package of Stellarium would be out the window, since it would be impossible to check that the Qt 4.5 dependency is satisfied without writing a complicated configure script that sneaks around the package manager's back. (And even if we released a binary package, the user still has to compile the library, which defeats the point of a binary package.) On top of all that, how can we call 0.10.0 a beta, and 0.10.1 a release, when the user is forced to download and compile the unstable version of a huge library themselves? As awesome as the speed increase is, I don't think it's worth all that. Here's my proposal: link the standard Linux release against 4.4.3. We already have #ifdefs in the code to take care of this; nothing would change. We provide deb and rpm packages on the official website, since this is, of course, a release. We also provide a source tarball for those who want to compile against 4.5. Then everybody's happy! We have packages that stand an excellent chance of getting committed to the repositories of the major distributions, and speed freaks can still link against the bleeding-edge version of Qt. This wouldn't affect the Windows or Mac versions at all. Just my opinion. :-) > >From now on, we should feature-freeze the SVN version and work on > removing the last known bugs. Definitely. So I take it we're going to branch that new DSS code out from the trunk? Mike |
From: F. C. <fab...@go...> - 2009-01-18 21:21:53
|
On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Mike Storm <oop...@gm...> wrote: > On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Fabien Chéreau > <fab...@go...> wrote: >> My tests with Qt4.5 were mostly to make sure that stellarium 0.10.1 >> will not fail when distribs upgrade to 4.5, after some bug fixes it >> now seems OK except some tab icon rendering problems on linux, but I >> currently see no reasons to release it even with Qt 4.4.3, it should >> work also fine. Oops, I fucked up in my sentence (I think a part of it dispeared). I meant that I currently see no reasons to allow only for QT 4.5 for this release. The goal is that it just works with both 4.4.3 and 4.5 without code change as it does now, and let the distribs choose which version of Qt to use once 4.5 is released. >> >From now on, we should feature-freeze the SVN version and work on >> removing the last known bugs. > > Definitely. So I take it we're going to branch that new DSS code out > from the trunk? Well the code can stay, it doesn't harm, and it's partially used by the nebula images feature. The problems occur only when the data are loaded from the network. We still don't have the servers anyway.. Fabien |
From: Mike S. <oop...@gm...> - 2009-01-18 22:31:49
|
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Mike Storm <oop...@gm...> wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Fabien Chéreau >> <fab...@go...> wrote: >>> My tests with Qt4.5 were mostly to make sure that stellarium 0.10.1 >>> will not fail when distribs upgrade to 4.5, after some bug fixes it >>> now seems OK except some tab icon rendering problems on linux, but I >>> currently see no reasons to release it even with Qt 4.4.3, it should >>> work also fine. > > Oops, I fucked up in my sentence (I think a part of it dispeared). I > meant that I currently see no reasons to allow only for QT 4.5 for > this release. The goal is that it just works with both 4.4.3 and 4.5 > without code change as it does now, and let the distribs choose which > version of Qt to use once 4.5 is released. That's okay! :-D Glad we agree. > >>> >From now on, we should feature-freeze the SVN version and work on >>> removing the last known bugs. >> >> Definitely. So I take it we're going to branch that new DSS code out >> from the trunk? > > Well the code can stay, it doesn't harm, and it's partially used by > the nebula images feature. The problems occur only when the data are > loaded from the network. We still don't have the servers anyway.. Crazy thought... what if we make it distributed? Each box queries its peers to see if they have a particular image, and only then does it query the master server. Eventually, enough peers will have enough data that the master server is almost never queried, and the whole data pool is decentralized. Crazy? > > Fabien > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > _______________________________________________ > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > Ste...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > |
From: F. C. <fab...@go...> - 2009-01-18 22:45:19
|
On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Mike Storm <oop...@gm...> wrote: >> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Mike Storm <oop...@gm...> wrote: >>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Fabien Chéreau >>> <fab...@go...> wrote: >>>> My tests with Qt4.5 were mostly to make sure that stellarium 0.10.1 >>>> will not fail when distribs upgrade to 4.5, after some bug fixes it >>>> now seems OK except some tab icon rendering problems on linux, but I >>>> currently see no reasons to release it even with Qt 4.4.3, it should >>>> work also fine. >> >> Oops, I fucked up in my sentence (I think a part of it dispeared). I >> meant that I currently see no reasons to allow only for QT 4.5 for >> this release. The goal is that it just works with both 4.4.3 and 4.5 >> without code change as it does now, and let the distribs choose which >> version of Qt to use once 4.5 is released. > > That's okay! :-D Glad we agree. > >> >>>> >From now on, we should feature-freeze the SVN version and work on >>>> removing the last known bugs. >>> >>> Definitely. So I take it we're going to branch that new DSS code out >>> from the trunk? >> >> Well the code can stay, it doesn't harm, and it's partially used by >> the nebula images feature. The problems occur only when the data are >> loaded from the network. We still don't have the servers anyway.. > > Crazy thought... what if we make it distributed? Each box queries its > peers to see if they have a particular image, and only then does it > query the master server. Eventually, enough peers will have enough > data that the master server is almost never queried, and the whole > data pool is decentralized. Crazy? I thought of using a peer to peer system at first, but it seems that it's difficult to avoid huge latencies. In Stellarium, we need very low latency for getting a lot of small images as fast as possible. But I am not an expert for these questions though, any thoughs welcome. In the mean time, we have enough money from donations to set up at least 1 server for a couple of years. Fabien |
From: Mike S. <oop...@gm...> - 2009-01-18 23:48:53
|
> I thought of using a peer to peer system at first, but it seems that > it's difficult to avoid huge latencies. In Stellarium, we need very > low latency for getting a lot of small images as fast as possible. I was thinking only a few constantly-connected, high-speed clients would be doing the sharing. For example, my friend down the hall has a custom-built gaming box that's always connected to the university network. He could even choose to run some sort of daemon, if he doesn't want Stellarium open all the time. These clients would be equivalent to supernodes in the Gnutella network, which I'm fairly familiar with. (Nobody actually uses a pure peer-to-peer network anymore, due to those latency problems you're worried about.) Perhaps a mixed system - when requesting an image tile, the leaf (end user) 1) queries its own cache, 2) queries the supernodes, 3) queries the master server. If in step 2 the supernodes don't ping back within, say, 50ms, go to step 3 and ask the master server. I think that this would eliminate our latency problems and substantially reduce load on the master server. Even if none of the supernodes respond, nobody's going to notice the 1/20th of a second it took to ask them. And end-users will never need to know that this is going on, unless they choose to be a supernode. Does this all make sense? I think I can prototype this. Thoughts? > > But I am not an expert for these questions though, any thoughs > welcome. In the mean time, we have enough money from donations to set > up at least 1 server for a couple of years. Wow! I didn't know that. By the way, what's the size of the entire DSS catalog we're using? And do we have any estimate of the bandwidth that it's going to take? Mike |
From: Rob S. <ro...@di...> - 2009-01-19 02:55:23
|
Regarding DSS or other image hosting, I think it would be relatively easy to get this donated. I don't think it's something we want to run if we can help it, better to spend our time/resources elsewhere. Is there a written license now? That was the hang up last time I looked into this. The host would want some kind of mention. Thanks, Rob On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 17:48 -0600, Mike Storm wrote: > > I thought of using a peer to peer system at first, but it seems that > > it's difficult to avoid huge latencies. In Stellarium, we need very > > low latency for getting a lot of small images as fast as possible. > > I was thinking only a few constantly-connected, high-speed clients > would be doing the sharing. For example, my friend down the hall has a > custom-built gaming box that's always connected to the university > network. He could even choose to run some sort of daemon, if he > doesn't want Stellarium open all the time. These clients would be > equivalent to supernodes in the Gnutella network, which I'm fairly > familiar with. (Nobody actually uses a pure peer-to-peer network > anymore, due to those latency problems you're worried about.) > > Perhaps a mixed system - when requesting an image tile, the leaf (end > user) 1) queries its own cache, 2) queries the supernodes, 3) queries > the master server. If in step 2 the supernodes don't ping back within, > say, 50ms, go to step 3 and ask the master server. I think that this > would eliminate our latency problems and substantially reduce load on > the master server. Even if none of the supernodes respond, nobody's > going to notice the 1/20th of a second it took to ask them. And > end-users will never need to know that this is going on, unless they > choose to be a supernode. Does this all make sense? > > I think I can prototype this. Thoughts? > > > > > But I am not an expert for these questions though, any thoughs > > welcome. In the mean time, we have enough money from donations to set > > up at least 1 server for a couple of years. > > Wow! I didn't know that. By the way, what's the size of the entire DSS > catalog we're using? And do we have any estimate of the bandwidth that > it's going to take? > > Mike > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > _______________________________________________ > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > Ste...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel |
From: Sveinn í F. (IMAP) <sv...@ne...> - 2009-01-19 09:19:40
|
Hi, Mike Storm wrote: > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Rob Spearman > <ro...@di...> wrote: >> Regarding DSS or other image hosting, I think it would be relatively >> easy to get this donated. I don't think it's something we want to run >> if we can help it, better to spend our time/resources elsewhere. > > Whom specifically should we ask? A server farm, a university, a > research organization? Google, Facebook (they mirror some open-source > projects), Microsoft, Novell? I'm just throwing out ideas. > > Mike Be careful about citing Facebook for this use, many in the open source community have blend feelings about the company, not to say total distrust. Many articles on the internet have traced various FB shareholders to ultra-right-wing neocon groups and even to the CIA. See: http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Facebook http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10456534 http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jan/14/facebook Just my 2 centimes. Hope I'm not offending someone. Sveinn í Felli > >> Is there a written license now? That was the hang up last time I looked >> into this. The host would want some kind of mention. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rob >> >> >> On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 17:48 -0600, Mike Storm wrote: >>>> I thought of using a peer to peer system at first, but it seems that >>>> it's difficult to avoid huge latencies. In Stellarium, we need very >>>> low latency for getting a lot of small images as fast as possible. >>> I was thinking only a few constantly-connected, high-speed clients >>> would be doing the sharing. For example, my friend down the hall has a >>> custom-built gaming box that's always connected to the university >>> network. He could even choose to run some sort of daemon, if he >>> doesn't want Stellarium open all the time. These clients would be >>> equivalent to supernodes in the Gnutella network, which I'm fairly >>> familiar with. (Nobody actually uses a pure peer-to-peer network >>> anymore, due to those latency problems you're worried about.) >>> >>> Perhaps a mixed system - when requesting an image tile, the leaf (end >>> user) 1) queries its own cache, 2) queries the supernodes, 3) queries >>> the master server. If in step 2 the supernodes don't ping back within, >>> say, 50ms, go to step 3 and ask the master server. I think that this >>> would eliminate our latency problems and substantially reduce load on >>> the master server. Even if none of the supernodes respond, nobody's >>> going to notice the 1/20th of a second it took to ask them. And >>> end-users will never need to know that this is going on, unless they >>> choose to be a supernode. Does this all make sense? >>> >>> I think I can prototype this. Thoughts? >>> >>>> But I am not an expert for these questions though, any thoughs >>>> welcome. In the mean time, we have enough money from donations to set >>>> up at least 1 server for a couple of years. >>> Wow! I didn't know that. By the way, what's the size of the entire DSS >>> catalog we're using? And do we have any estimate of the bandwidth that >>> it's going to take? >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: >>> SourcForge Community >>> SourceForge wants to tell your story. >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list >>> Ste...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: >> SourcForge Community >> SourceForge wants to tell your story. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword >> _______________________________________________ >> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list >> Ste...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > _______________________________________________ > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > Ste...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel |
From: Mike S. <oop...@gm...> - 2009-01-19 04:06:14
|
On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Rob Spearman <ro...@di...> wrote: > > Regarding DSS or other image hosting, I think it would be relatively > easy to get this donated. I don't think it's something we want to run > if we can help it, better to spend our time/resources elsewhere. Whom specifically should we ask? A server farm, a university, a research organization? Google, Facebook (they mirror some open-source projects), Microsoft, Novell? I'm just throwing out ideas. Mike > Is there a written license now? That was the hang up last time I looked > into this. The host would want some kind of mention. > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 17:48 -0600, Mike Storm wrote: >> > I thought of using a peer to peer system at first, but it seems that >> > it's difficult to avoid huge latencies. In Stellarium, we need very >> > low latency for getting a lot of small images as fast as possible. >> >> I was thinking only a few constantly-connected, high-speed clients >> would be doing the sharing. For example, my friend down the hall has a >> custom-built gaming box that's always connected to the university >> network. He could even choose to run some sort of daemon, if he >> doesn't want Stellarium open all the time. These clients would be >> equivalent to supernodes in the Gnutella network, which I'm fairly >> familiar with. (Nobody actually uses a pure peer-to-peer network >> anymore, due to those latency problems you're worried about.) >> >> Perhaps a mixed system - when requesting an image tile, the leaf (end >> user) 1) queries its own cache, 2) queries the supernodes, 3) queries >> the master server. If in step 2 the supernodes don't ping back within, >> say, 50ms, go to step 3 and ask the master server. I think that this >> would eliminate our latency problems and substantially reduce load on >> the master server. Even if none of the supernodes respond, nobody's >> going to notice the 1/20th of a second it took to ask them. And >> end-users will never need to know that this is going on, unless they >> choose to be a supernode. Does this all make sense? >> >> I think I can prototype this. Thoughts? >> >> > >> > But I am not an expert for these questions though, any thoughs >> > welcome. In the mean time, we have enough money from donations to set >> > up at least 1 server for a couple of years. >> >> Wow! I didn't know that. By the way, what's the size of the entire DSS >> catalog we're using? And do we have any estimate of the bandwidth that >> it's going to take? >> >> Mike >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: >> SourcForge Community >> SourceForge wants to tell your story. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword >> _______________________________________________ >> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list >> Ste...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > _______________________________________________ > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > Ste...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > |
From: David F. <dfo...@gm...> - 2009-01-19 06:49:55
|
On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 8:06 PM, Mike Storm <oop...@gm...> wrote: > Whom specifically should we ask? A server farm, a university, a > research organization? Google, Facebook (they mirror some open-source > projects), Microsoft, Novell? I'm just throwing out ideas. Maybe a naive question, but kstars has autodownload links to dss images, and it's relatively quick and transparent to select them. I wonder how easy it would be for stellarium just to use those sites (whatever they are). |
From: Mike S. <oop...@gm...> - 2009-01-19 07:58:11
|
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 12:49 AM, David Fox <dfo...@gm...> wrote: > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 8:06 PM, Mike Storm <oop...@gm...> wrote: > >> Whom specifically should we ask? A server farm, a university, a >> research organization? Google, Facebook (they mirror some open-source >> projects), Microsoft, Novell? I'm just throwing out ideas. > > Maybe a naive question, but kstars has autodownload links to dss > images, and it's relatively quick and transparent to select them. I > wonder how easy it would be for stellarium just to use those sites > (whatever they are). I assume because we're going to be producing a lot more queries? There are simple web forms to retrieve images, but they look like they could get overloaded. This one would be better for Fabien to answer. Mike > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > _______________________________________________ > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > Ste...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > |
From: F. C. <fab...@go...> - 2009-01-19 09:42:36
|
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 12:48 AM, Mike Storm <oop...@gm...> wrote: >> I thought of using a peer to peer system at first, but it seems that >> it's difficult to avoid huge latencies. In Stellarium, we need very >> low latency for getting a lot of small images as fast as possible. > > I was thinking only a few constantly-connected, high-speed clients > would be doing the sharing. For example, my friend down the hall has a > custom-built gaming box that's always connected to the university > network. He could even choose to run some sort of daemon, if he > doesn't want Stellarium open all the time. These clients would be > equivalent to supernodes in the Gnutella network, which I'm fairly > familiar with. (Nobody actually uses a pure peer-to-peer network > anymore, due to those latency problems you're worried about.) > > Perhaps a mixed system - when requesting an image tile, the leaf (end > user) 1) queries its own cache, 2) queries the supernodes, 3) queries > the master server. If in step 2 the supernodes don't ping back within, > say, 50ms, go to step 3 and ask the master server. I think that this > would eliminate our latency problems and substantially reduce load on > the master server. Even if none of the supernodes respond, nobody's > going to notice the 1/20th of a second it took to ask them. And > end-users will never need to know that this is going on, unless they > choose to be a supernode. Does this all make sense? > > I think I can prototype this. Thoughts? You can make tests but it sounds pretty tough to me! For Stellarium, there are probably more critical things to do since we already plan to make the DSS work with conventional servers in the next weeks/months. But I also agree that such a system would be quite innovative if it works. For other tasks, please see/add/comment the Blueprints at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/stellarium >> But I am not an expert for these questions though, any thoughts >> welcome. In the mean time, we have enough money from donations to set >> up at least 1 server for a couple of years. > > Wow! I didn't know that. By the way, what's the size of the entire DSS > catalog we're using? And do we have any estimate of the bandwidth that > it's going to take? The size of the complete multi-resolution DSS that I have here is less than 250GB and my old estimation of the bandwidth is about 30TB/day, which is a lot but is also very uncertain because we don't have good estimation of number of users and also because these figure were done close to the server with an almost infinite bandwidth. So let's say that we can live with 10 TB/day. Before we buy any server, the plan is to create a "Stellarium association" which will allow to collect and use donation money in a proper and transparent way. I started the administrative tasks helped by a friend in France (we want to create a so called "1901 law association", which is a french-based association because this is the law I know the best). Fabien |
From: Mike S. <oop...@gm...> - 2009-01-19 10:41:31
|
It was just a thought. I don't want to use this mailing list to take sides on any issue that is not directly related to Stellarium. Thank you for your input, Sveinn. Mike On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:19 AM, "Sveinn í Felli (IMAP)" <sv...@ne...> wrote: > Hi, > > Mike Storm wrote: >> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Rob Spearman >> <ro...@di...> wrote: >>> Regarding DSS or other image hosting, I think it would be relatively >>> easy to get this donated. I don't think it's something we want to run >>> if we can help it, better to spend our time/resources elsewhere. >> >> Whom specifically should we ask? A server farm, a university, a >> research organization? Google, Facebook (they mirror some open-source >> projects), Microsoft, Novell? I'm just throwing out ideas. >> >> Mike > > Be careful about citing Facebook for this use, many in the > open source community have blend feelings about the company, > not to say total distrust. Many articles on the internet > have traced various FB shareholders to ultra-right-wing > neocon groups and even to the CIA. See: > http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Facebook > http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10456534 > http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jan/14/facebook > > Just my 2 centimes. > Hope I'm not offending someone. > > Sveinn í Felli >> >>> Is there a written license now? That was the hang up last time I looked >>> into this. The host would want some kind of mention. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> >>> On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 17:48 -0600, Mike Storm wrote: >>>>> I thought of using a peer to peer system at first, but it seems that >>>>> it's difficult to avoid huge latencies. In Stellarium, we need very >>>>> low latency for getting a lot of small images as fast as possible. >>>> I was thinking only a few constantly-connected, high-speed clients >>>> would be doing the sharing. For example, my friend down the hall has a >>>> custom-built gaming box that's always connected to the university >>>> network. He could even choose to run some sort of daemon, if he >>>> doesn't want Stellarium open all the time. These clients would be >>>> equivalent to supernodes in the Gnutella network, which I'm fairly >>>> familiar with. (Nobody actually uses a pure peer-to-peer network >>>> anymore, due to those latency problems you're worried about.) >>>> >>>> Perhaps a mixed system - when requesting an image tile, the leaf (end >>>> user) 1) queries its own cache, 2) queries the supernodes, 3) queries >>>> the master server. If in step 2 the supernodes don't ping back within, >>>> say, 50ms, go to step 3 and ask the master server. I think that this >>>> would eliminate our latency problems and substantially reduce load on >>>> the master server. Even if none of the supernodes respond, nobody's >>>> going to notice the 1/20th of a second it took to ask them. And >>>> end-users will never need to know that this is going on, unless they >>>> choose to be a supernode. Does this all make sense? >>>> >>>> I think I can prototype this. Thoughts? >>>> >>>>> But I am not an expert for these questions though, any thoughs >>>>> welcome. In the mean time, we have enough money from donations to set >>>>> up at least 1 server for a couple of years. >>>> Wow! I didn't know that. By the way, what's the size of the entire DSS >>>> catalog we're using? And do we have any estimate of the bandwidth that >>>> it's going to take? >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: >>>> SourcForge Community >>>> SourceForge wants to tell your story. >>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list >>>> Ste...@li... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: >>> SourcForge Community >>> SourceForge wants to tell your story. >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list >>> Ste...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: >> SourcForge Community >> SourceForge wants to tell your story. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword >> _______________________________________________ >> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list >> Ste...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > _______________________________________________ > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > Ste...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > |
From: Mike S. <oop...@gm...> - 2009-01-19 11:15:11
|
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:42 AM, Fabien Chéreau <fab...@go...> wrote: > You can make tests but it sounds pretty tough to me! > For Stellarium, there are probably more critical things to do since we > already plan to make the DSS work with conventional servers in the > next weeks/months. But I also agree that such a system would be quite > innovative if it works. > For other tasks, please see/add/comment the Blueprints at > https://blueprints.launchpad.net/stellarium Agreed. I will. > The size of the complete multi-resolution DSS that I have here is less > than 250GB and my old estimation of the bandwidth is about 30TB/day, > which is a lot but is also very uncertain because we don't have good > estimation of number of users and also because these figure were done > close to the server with an almost infinite bandwidth. So let's say > that we can live with 10 TB/day. That's a lot more bandwidth than I imagined. In fact, I had to set up an analogy in my head just to think about it :-). Do you really mean multiple servers? That's over 100MB/s you're talking about. I'm sure you've already thought about this; I'm just curious. > Before we buy any server, the plan is to create a "Stellarium > association" which will allow to collect and use donation money in a > proper and transparent way. I started the administrative tasks helped > by a friend in France (we want to create a so called "1901 law > association", which is a french-based association because this is the > law I know the best). I expected that would have to be done, and of course it's a good thing. I'm somewhat familiar with American laws regarding non-profits, but I know nothing about the French system. Good luck! Mike |
From: F. C. <fab...@go...> - 2009-01-19 11:25:02
|
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Mike Storm <oop...@gm...> wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:42 AM, Fabien Chéreau > <fab...@go...> wrote: >> You can make tests but it sounds pretty tough to me! >> For Stellarium, there are probably more critical things to do since we >> already plan to make the DSS work with conventional servers in the >> next weeks/months. But I also agree that such a system would be quite >> innovative if it works. >> For other tasks, please see/add/comment the Blueprints at >> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/stellarium > > Agreed. I will. > >> The size of the complete multi-resolution DSS that I have here is less >> than 250GB and my old estimation of the bandwidth is about 30TB/day, >> which is a lot but is also very uncertain because we don't have good >> estimation of number of users and also because these figure were done >> close to the server with an almost infinite bandwidth. So let's say >> that we can live with 10 TB/day. > > That's a lot more bandwidth than I imagined. In fact, I had to set up > an analogy in my head just to think about it :-). Do you really mean > multiple servers? That's over 100MB/s you're talking about. I'm sure > you've already thought about this; I'm just curious. Yeah it's really a lot of bandwidth, but as I said, the numbers are really uncertain. We have no other choice as giving a try and see the server's stats after some days. If it grows more than expected, then we'll need to ask for funds to buy other servers. We will also need to find a way to make proper load balancing. I don't know what the best is for this. Any ideas welcome! If one of you have a server or know someone which have one, we could start the tests very soon. It's just some files to copy. Fabien >> Before we buy any server, the plan is to create a "Stellarium >> association" which will allow to collect and use donation money in a >> proper and transparent way. I started the administrative tasks helped >> by a friend in France (we want to create a so called "1901 law >> association", which is a french-based association because this is the >> law I know the best). > > I expected that would have to be done, and of course it's a good > thing. I'm somewhat familiar with American laws regarding non-profits, > but I know nothing about the French system. Good luck! > > Mike > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > _______________________________________________ > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > Ste...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > |
From: Mike S. <oop...@gm...> - 2009-01-19 12:39:07
|
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 5:24 AM, Fabien Chéreau <fab...@go...> wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Mike Storm <oop...@gm...> wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:42 AM, Fabien Chéreau >> <fab...@go...> wrote: >>> You can make tests but it sounds pretty tough to me! >>> For Stellarium, there are probably more critical things to do since we >>> already plan to make the DSS work with conventional servers in the >>> next weeks/months. But I also agree that such a system would be quite >>> innovative if it works. >>> For other tasks, please see/add/comment the Blueprints at >>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/stellarium >> >> Agreed. I will. >> >>> The size of the complete multi-resolution DSS that I have here is less >>> than 250GB and my old estimation of the bandwidth is about 30TB/day, >>> which is a lot but is also very uncertain because we don't have good >>> estimation of number of users and also because these figure were done >>> close to the server with an almost infinite bandwidth. So let's say >>> that we can live with 10 TB/day. >> >> That's a lot more bandwidth than I imagined. In fact, I had to set up >> an analogy in my head just to think about it :-). Do you really mean >> multiple servers? That's over 100MB/s you're talking about. I'm sure >> you've already thought about this; I'm just curious. > > Yeah it's really a lot of bandwidth, but as I said, the numbers are > really uncertain. We have no other choice as giving a try and see the > server's stats after some days. If it grows more than expected, then > we'll need to ask for funds to buy other servers. We will also need to > find a way to make proper load balancing. I don't know what the best > is for this. Any ideas welcome! If one of you have a server or know > someone which have one, we could start the tests very soon. It's just > some files to copy. This discussion is also going on in another thread - have you tried asking server farms, research organizations, etc? Google or Microsoft? Maybe some astronomical organization will either provide funds, match them or donate a server outright. Mike >>> Before we buy any server, the plan is to create a "Stellarium >>> association" which will allow to collect and use donation money in a >>> proper and transparent way. I started the administrative tasks helped >>> by a friend in France (we want to create a so called "1901 law >>> association", which is a french-based association because this is the >>> law I know the best). >> >> I expected that would have to be done, and of course it's a good >> thing. I'm somewhat familiar with American laws regarding non-profits, >> but I know nothing about the French system. Good luck! >> >> Mike >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: >> SourcForge Community >> SourceForge wants to tell your story. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword >> _______________________________________________ >> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list >> Ste...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > _______________________________________________ > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > Ste...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > |
From: F. C. <fab...@go...> - 2009-01-19 13:09:17
|
> This discussion is also going on in another thread - have you tried > asking server farms, research organizations, etc? Google or Microsoft? > Maybe some astronomical organization will either provide funds, match > them or donate a server outright. I didn't asked anyone yet, although I know some fundations which could provide bandwidth (the "fondation free" for example). But before we ask anything, I think it is important to have something to show and also to produce valid figures. So to me it makes sense to buy one server first and make tests etc.. Fabien |
From: Barry G. <bar...@ho...> - 2009-01-20 00:21:13
|
Hi All I have compiled version 4168 in: Windows XP SP 2 and SP3 with Qt 4.4.3 and Qt 4.5.0-beta1 Vista SP1 QT4.4.3 Linux Ubuntu 8.10 Qt 4.4.3 I have run each of the compilations as follows:Windows XP SP2 Qt 4.4.3 on Main computer 768 MB RAM Windows XP SP3 Qt 4.4.3 on Lap top 1.5GB RAM Except that I can only load either Star catalogues 7 or 8 not both Windows XP SP2 Qt 4.5.0-beta1 on Main computer 768 MB RAM Windows XP SP3 Qt 4.5.0-beta1 on Lap top 1.5 GB RAM Still can only have either star catalogue 7 or 8 The start up screen has all the lowercase characters missing from the dialogue under the loading bar Qt 4.5.0-beta1 dlls make Stellarium run about 33% faster Windows Vista SP1 Qt4.4.3 on Lap top 1.5 GB RAM Windows Vista SP1 Qt 4.5.0-beta1 on Lap top 1.5GB RAM All star catalogues load correctly If I use Qt 4.5.0-beta1 dlls the program runs 33% faster butThe start up screen has all the lowercase characters missing from the dialogue under the loading bar Windows 2000 SP4 Qt 4.4.3 on main computer 768 MB RAM Windows 2000 SP4 Qt 4.5.0-beta1 on main computer 768MB RAM All star catalogues load correctly If I use Qt 4.5.0-beta1 dlls the program runs 33% faster butThe start up screen has all the lowercase characters missing from the dialogue under the loading bar Linux Ubuntu 8.10 Qt4.4.3 on Main computer 768 MB RAM All star catalogues load correctly Note: on Linux I do not have OpenGL drivers so it runs SLOW (.005fps) I recompiled the anglemeasure plug in for both Windows and Linux and it now works correctly as long as Qt4.4.3 dlls are used in Windows It seems the catalogue loading problem is something to do with how XP allocates RAM. I thought it may have been due to something else loaded on my windows installation but the lap top has exactly the same programs installed in both XP and Vista. Many fewer than the main computer. Please note also: I have not checked every previously known bug but I can do specific tests if they are nominated. Barry Gerdes Beaumont Hills Observatory S 33' 41' 44" E 150' 56' 32" 12" F10 GPS Polar mounted Home Page http://www.geocities.com/barrykgerdes > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> This SF.net email is sponsored by:> SourcForge Community> SourceForge wants to tell your story.> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword> _______________________________________________> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list> Ste...@li...> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel _________________________________________________________________ Time for change? Find your ideal job with SEEK. http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Atl%3Ask%3Anine%3A0%3Ahottag%3Achange&_t=757263783&_r=SEEK_tagline&_m=EXT |
From: Rob S. <ro...@di...> - 2009-01-19 17:04:53
|
I guess I should amplify my comment: Us trying to host the DSS is a bad idea! I used to work with web hosting and one server will never cut it. So go with some donated hosting that already has the load balancing, redundancy, geographic dispersion, bandwidth, hardware, and dedicated administrators that we could never hope to match on our time and budget. I have a lead at a large non-controversial company that might be interested in hosting this for Stellarium, but I had to put any discussion on hold until the license got sorted out. Now that that is taken care of (?) why don't we pursue something like this and do ourselves a huge favor? Rob On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 17:55 -0800, Rob Spearman wrote: > Regarding DSS or other image hosting, I think it would be relatively > easy to get this donated. I don't think it's something we want to run > if we can help it, better to spend our time/resources elsewhere. > > Is there a written license now? That was the hang up last time I looked > into this. The host would want some kind of mention. > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 17:48 -0600, Mike Storm wrote: > > > I thought of using a peer to peer system at first, but it seems that > > > it's difficult to avoid huge latencies. In Stellarium, we need very > > > low latency for getting a lot of small images as fast as possible. > > > > I was thinking only a few constantly-connected, high-speed clients > > would be doing the sharing. For example, my friend down the hall has a > > custom-built gaming box that's always connected to the university > > network. He could even choose to run some sort of daemon, if he > > doesn't want Stellarium open all the time. These clients would be > > equivalent to supernodes in the Gnutella network, which I'm fairly > > familiar with. (Nobody actually uses a pure peer-to-peer network > > anymore, due to those latency problems you're worried about.) > > > > Perhaps a mixed system - when requesting an image tile, the leaf (end > > user) 1) queries its own cache, 2) queries the supernodes, 3) queries > > the master server. If in step 2 the supernodes don't ping back within, > > say, 50ms, go to step 3 and ask the master server. I think that this > > would eliminate our latency problems and substantially reduce load on > > the master server. Even if none of the supernodes respond, nobody's > > going to notice the 1/20th of a second it took to ask them. And > > end-users will never need to know that this is going on, unless they > > choose to be a supernode. Does this all make sense? > > > > I think I can prototype this. Thoughts? > > > > > > > > But I am not an expert for these questions though, any thoughs > > > welcome. In the mean time, we have enough money from donations to set > > > up at least 1 server for a couple of years. > > > > Wow! I didn't know that. By the way, what's the size of the entire DSS > > catalog we're using? And do we have any estimate of the bandwidth that > > it's going to take? > > > > Mike > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > > SourcForge Community > > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > > _______________________________________________ > > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > > Ste...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > _______________________________________________ > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > Ste...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel -- Digitalis Education Solutions, Inc. tel 360.616.8915 x302 P.O. Box 2976 fax 360.616.8917 Bremerton, WA 98310 http://digitaliseducation.com |
From: F. C. <fab...@go...> - 2009-01-20 11:03:46
|
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Rob Spearman <ro...@di...> wrote: > > I guess I should amplify my comment: > > Us trying to host the DSS is a bad idea! > > I used to work with web hosting and one server will never cut it. So go > with some donated hosting that already has the load balancing, > redundancy, geographic dispersion, bandwidth, hardware, and dedicated > administrators that we could never hope to match on our time and budget. > > I have a lead at a large non-controversial company that might be > interested in hosting this for Stellarium, but I had to put any > discussion on hold until the license got sorted out. Now that that is > taken care of (?) why don't we pursue something like this and do > ourselves a huge favor? Well it would be very great yes! I am totally open to this kind of solutions, I just didn't really know that it is so easy to get. I now have the formal authorization to distribute our copy of the DSS. I have the data ready on a disk here, and the code is mostly done, even though it is yet a bit suboptimal (cache deactivated because unstable etc..). So if you can go further with your contact, I don't think anyone would object to get such service! Please also ask for more technical information, I don't really know how it works to make geographic dispersion. Fabien > Rob > > On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 17:55 -0800, Rob Spearman wrote: >> Regarding DSS or other image hosting, I think it would be relatively >> easy to get this donated. I don't think it's something we want to run >> if we can help it, better to spend our time/resources elsewhere. >> >> Is there a written license now? That was the hang up last time I looked >> into this. The host would want some kind of mention. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rob >> >> >> On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 17:48 -0600, Mike Storm wrote: >> > > I thought of using a peer to peer system at first, but it seems that >> > > it's difficult to avoid huge latencies. In Stellarium, we need very >> > > low latency for getting a lot of small images as fast as possible. >> > >> > I was thinking only a few constantly-connected, high-speed clients >> > would be doing the sharing. For example, my friend down the hall has a >> > custom-built gaming box that's always connected to the university >> > network. He could even choose to run some sort of daemon, if he >> > doesn't want Stellarium open all the time. These clients would be >> > equivalent to supernodes in the Gnutella network, which I'm fairly >> > familiar with. (Nobody actually uses a pure peer-to-peer network >> > anymore, due to those latency problems you're worried about.) >> > >> > Perhaps a mixed system - when requesting an image tile, the leaf (end >> > user) 1) queries its own cache, 2) queries the supernodes, 3) queries >> > the master server. If in step 2 the supernodes don't ping back within, >> > say, 50ms, go to step 3 and ask the master server. I think that this >> > would eliminate our latency problems and substantially reduce load on >> > the master server. Even if none of the supernodes respond, nobody's >> > going to notice the 1/20th of a second it took to ask them. And >> > end-users will never need to know that this is going on, unless they >> > choose to be a supernode. Does this all make sense? >> > >> > I think I can prototype this. Thoughts? >> > >> > > >> > > But I am not an expert for these questions though, any thoughs >> > > welcome. In the mean time, we have enough money from donations to set >> > > up at least 1 server for a couple of years. >> > >> > Wow! I didn't know that. By the way, what's the size of the entire DSS >> > catalog we're using? And do we have any estimate of the bandwidth that >> > it's going to take? >> > >> > Mike >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: >> > SourcForge Community >> > SourceForge wants to tell your story. >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list >> > Ste...@li... >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: >> SourcForge Community >> SourceForge wants to tell your story. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword >> _______________________________________________ >> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list >> Ste...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > -- > Digitalis Education Solutions, Inc. tel 360.616.8915 x302 > P.O. Box 2976 fax 360.616.8917 > Bremerton, WA 98310 http://digitaliseducation.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > _______________________________________________ > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > Ste...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > |
From: Rob S. <ro...@di...> - 2009-01-20 17:03:42
|
Well, I could be optimistic about our chances, but I'll get back in touch with my contact and see where it leads. Rob On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 12:03 +0100, Fabien Chéreau wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Rob Spearman > <ro...@di...> wrote: > > > > I guess I should amplify my comment: > > > > Us trying to host the DSS is a bad idea! > > > > I used to work with web hosting and one server will never cut it. So go > > with some donated hosting that already has the load balancing, > > redundancy, geographic dispersion, bandwidth, hardware, and dedicated > > administrators that we could never hope to match on our time and budget. > > > > I have a lead at a large non-controversial company that might be > > interested in hosting this for Stellarium, but I had to put any > > discussion on hold until the license got sorted out. Now that that is > > taken care of (?) why don't we pursue something like this and do > > ourselves a huge favor? > > Well it would be very great yes! I am totally open to this kind of > solutions, I just didn't really know that it is so easy to get. > I now have the formal authorization to distribute our copy of the DSS. > I have the data ready on a disk here, and the code is mostly done, > even though it is yet a bit suboptimal (cache deactivated because > unstable etc..). > > So if you can go further with your contact, I don't think anyone would > object to get such service! Please also ask for more technical > information, I don't really know how it works to make geographic > dispersion. > > Fabien > > > Rob > > > > On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 17:55 -0800, Rob Spearman wrote: > >> Regarding DSS or other image hosting, I think it would be relatively > >> easy to get this donated. I don't think it's something we want to run > >> if we can help it, better to spend our time/resources elsewhere. > >> > >> Is there a written license now? That was the hang up last time I looked > >> into this. The host would want some kind of mention. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Rob > >> > >> > >> On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 17:48 -0600, Mike Storm wrote: > >> > > I thought of using a peer to peer system at first, but it seems that > >> > > it's difficult to avoid huge latencies. In Stellarium, we need very > >> > > low latency for getting a lot of small images as fast as possible. > >> > > >> > I was thinking only a few constantly-connected, high-speed clients > >> > would be doing the sharing. For example, my friend down the hall has a > >> > custom-built gaming box that's always connected to the university > >> > network. He could even choose to run some sort of daemon, if he > >> > doesn't want Stellarium open all the time. These clients would be > >> > equivalent to supernodes in the Gnutella network, which I'm fairly > >> > familiar with. (Nobody actually uses a pure peer-to-peer network > >> > anymore, due to those latency problems you're worried about.) > >> > > >> > Perhaps a mixed system - when requesting an image tile, the leaf (end > >> > user) 1) queries its own cache, 2) queries the supernodes, 3) queries > >> > the master server. If in step 2 the supernodes don't ping back within, > >> > say, 50ms, go to step 3 and ask the master server. I think that this > >> > would eliminate our latency problems and substantially reduce load on > >> > the master server. Even if none of the supernodes respond, nobody's > >> > going to notice the 1/20th of a second it took to ask them. And > >> > end-users will never need to know that this is going on, unless they > >> > choose to be a supernode. Does this all make sense? > >> > > >> > I think I can prototype this. Thoughts? > >> > > >> > > > >> > > But I am not an expert for these questions though, any thoughs > >> > > welcome. In the mean time, we have enough money from donations to set > >> > > up at least 1 server for a couple of years. > >> > > >> > Wow! I didn't know that. By the way, what's the size of the entire DSS > >> > catalog we're using? And do we have any estimate of the bandwidth that > >> > it's going to take? > >> > > >> > Mike > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > >> > SourcForge Community > >> > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > >> > Ste...@li... > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: > >> SourcForge Community > >> SourceForge wants to tell your story. > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > >> Ste...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > > -- > > Digitalis Education Solutions, Inc. tel 360.616.8915 x302 > > P.O. Box 2976 fax 360.616.8917 > > Bremerton, WA 98310 http://digitaliseducation.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > > SourcForge Community > > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > > _______________________________________________ > > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > > Ste...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > _______________________________________________ > Stellarium-pubdevel mailing list > Ste...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarium-pubdevel -- Digitalis Education Solutions, Inc. tel 360.616.8915 x302 P.O. Box 2976 fax 360.616.8917 Bremerton, WA 98310 http://digitaliseducation.com |