From: Graham S. <gr...@th...> - 2011-04-14 21:42:40
|
I have a Semantic MediaWiki as the main place where a set of data is kept and updated. I'd like to extract the data (ie. the properties on each page) to put in a database for use by a totally different application, with the the database being refreshed from SMW nightly. I can see various ways of doing this, but wondered what people thought was the most natural and in the spirit of SMW? Thanks Graham |
From: Laurent A. <la...@al...> - 2011-04-14 21:59:55
|
The most natural fit to do this is to enable a triple store connector. You can set up the default SPARQL endpoint using RAP ; http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:SPARQL_endpoint or use one of many solutions for triple store connectors depending of your need : http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SPARQL_and_RDF_stores_for_SMW Triple store connectors synchronize SMW data live and can be accessed using SPARQL queries of course. You can also add this extension to query and export results right from a special page : http://www.sensordatalab.org/wiki/index.php5/Extensions:Sparql_Query Or alternatively, you can wait for the next major version of SMW which should have a revamped internal storage based on a triple store. - Laurent On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Graham Seaman <gr...@th...>wrote: > I have a Semantic MediaWiki as the main place where a set of data is > kept and updated. I'd like to extract the data (ie. the properties on > each page) to put in a database for use by a totally different > application, with the the database being refreshed from SMW nightly. I > can see various ways of doing this, but wondered what people thought was > the most natural and in the spirit of SMW? > > Thanks > Graham > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload > Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top > priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve > application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting > the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-user mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user > -- - Laurent Alquier http://www.linfa.net |
From: Graham S. <gr...@th...> - 2011-04-14 22:42:47
|
Somehow I'd missed the RAP pages; thank you. Help:SPARQL_endpoint says it needs SMW from trunk. That was written some time ago - I am running SMW 1.5.6, is that recent enough for it to work? Graham On 04/14/11 22:59, Laurent Alquier wrote: > The most natural fit to do this is to enable a triple store connector. > > You can set up the default SPARQL endpoint using RAP ; > > http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:SPARQL_endpoint > > or use one of many solutions for triple store connectors depending of your > need : > > http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SPARQL_and_RDF_stores_for_SMW > > Triple store connectors synchronize SMW data live and can be accessed using > SPARQL queries of course. > > You can also add this extension to query and export results right from a > special page : > > http://www.sensordatalab.org/wiki/index.php5/Extensions:Sparql_Query > > Or alternatively, you can wait for the next major version of SMW which > should have a revamped internal storage based on a triple store. > > - Laurent > > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Graham Seaman <gr...@th...>wrote: > >> I have a Semantic MediaWiki as the main place where a set of data is >> kept and updated. I'd like to extract the data (ie. the properties on >> each page) to put in a database for use by a totally different >> application, with the the database being refreshed from SMW nightly. I >> can see various ways of doing this, but wondered what people thought was >> the most natural and in the spirit of SMW? >> >> Thanks >> Graham >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload >> Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top >> priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve >> application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting >> the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Semediawiki-user mailing list >> Sem...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user >> > > > |
From: Bruce W. <br...@fu...> - 2011-04-15 04:00:51
|
Hello, I am looking at this page: http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Import_vocabulary and it reads, "After an administrator makes the external vocabulary available," I cannot find where I as the administrator am told how to make a vocabulary available. What does the administrator need to do? Can someone help me understand how this works or what I need to do. I was also wondering if there is a way to link to an external document or link when creating properties, when annotating a page. Normally it is done like this. [[has capital::Berlin]] An example I see often. This works well if Berlin is in that wiki. However, if one wants to link to information that is not in the current wiki, can this be done? Thanks, Bruce ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bruce Whealton, Owner Future Wave Designs FOAF: http://whealton.info/BruceWhealton1/foaf.rdf Vcard: http://whealton.info/BruceWhealton1/brucewhealtonvcard.html Web Design and Development http://FutureWaveDesigns.com http://futurewavedesigns.com/wordpress/ Web Technology wiki: http://futurewavedesigns.com/w/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ |
From: Graham S. <gr...@th...> - 2011-04-16 20:47:49
|
On 04/14/11 22:59, Laurent Alquier wrote: > The most natural fit to do this is to enable a triple store connector. > > You can set up the default SPARQL endpoint using RAP ; > > http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:SPARQL_endpoint > I assumed this would probably be the most straightforward way, and am trying to follow it through. I was running with the latest stable Mediawiki and SMW (1.16.2 and 1.5.6) 1. Replaced SMW1.5.6 with the current svn version 2. This required the Validator extension; installed version 0.4.6 3. Installed RAP 0.96 in SMW/libs 4. Using the LocalSettings recommended in Help:SPARQL_endpoint, I then get: PHP Fatal error: Class 'SMW_STORE_RAP' not found in /apps/rhul/resources/htdocs/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_GlobalFunctions.php on line 28 Commented out this line in LocalSettings and tried again; next error is: PHP Catchable fatal error: Argument 1 passed to SMWSQLStore2::getInProperties() must be an instance of SMWDataItem, instance of SMWWikiPageValue given, called in /apps/rhul/resources/htdocs/SemanticForms2.0.9/includes/SF_FormLinker.php on line 36 and defined in /apps/rhul/resources/htdocs/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/storage/SMW_SQLStore2.php on line 661 Is it worth following down this line or am I going to run into problems at each step? This is going to be a production system, and I'm a little nervous of building it around one-off hacks if that's what I need to do to get it going... I saw the last signs of development on RAP were from 2008 and am also wondering if it is likely to be supported in future. Thanks Graham |
From: Yaron K. <ya...@wi...> - 2011-04-17 14:15:25
|
Hi, By the way, the use of RDF is definitely the most semantic option, but the simplest option, probably for both export and import, is to use the CSV or JSON query format, via the Special:Ask page. You would just have to create enough queries to get all the wiki's data - each query would be represented by a single URL, and then some cron job script would get all the URLs, parse their contents and save them to the DB. -Yaron On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Graham Seaman <gr...@th...> wrote: > On 04/14/11 22:59, Laurent Alquier wrote: >> The most natural fit to do this is to enable a triple store connector. >> >> You can set up the default SPARQL endpoint using RAP ; >> >> http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:SPARQL_endpoint >> > > I assumed this would probably be the most straightforward way, and am > trying to follow it through. I was running with the latest stable > Mediawiki and SMW (1.16.2 and 1.5.6) > > 1. Replaced SMW1.5.6 with the current svn version > 2. This required the Validator extension; installed version 0.4.6 > 3. Installed RAP 0.96 in SMW/libs > 4. Using the LocalSettings recommended in Help:SPARQL_endpoint, I then get: > > PHP Fatal error: Class 'SMW_STORE_RAP' not found in > /apps/rhul/resources/htdocs/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_GlobalFunctions.php > on line 28 > > Commented out this line in LocalSettings and tried again; next error is: > > PHP Catchable fatal error: Argument 1 passed to > SMWSQLStore2::getInProperties() must be an instance of SMWDataItem, > instance of SMWWikiPageValue given, called in > /apps/rhul/resources/htdocs/SemanticForms2.0.9/includes/SF_FormLinker.php on > line 36 and defined in > /apps/rhul/resources/htdocs/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/storage/SMW_SQLStore2.php > on line 661 > > Is it worth following down this line or am I going to run into problems > at each step? This is going to be a production system, and I'm a little > nervous of building it around one-off hacks if that's what I need to do > to get it going... I saw the last signs of development on RAP were from > 2008 and am also wondering if it is likely to be supported in future. > > Thanks > Graham > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload > Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top > priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve > application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting > the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-user mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user > -- WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com |
From: graham <gr...@th...> - 2011-04-18 10:16:19
|
Have reluctantly switched to CSV as much simpler to do (will maybe revisit RDF later). But I can't persuade Special:Ask to give me a list of categories which are a subcategory of another category - is this possible? Graham On 04/17/11 15:15, Yaron Koren wrote: > Hi, > > By the way, the use of RDF is definitely the most semantic option, but > the simplest option, probably for both export and import, is to use > the CSV or JSON query format, via the Special:Ask page. You would just > have to create enough queries to get all the wiki's data - each query > would be represented by a single URL, and then some cron job script > would get all the URLs, parse their contents and save them to the DB. > > -Yaron > > On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Graham Seaman <gr...@th...> wrote: >> On 04/14/11 22:59, Laurent Alquier wrote: >>> The most natural fit to do this is to enable a triple store connector. >>> >>> You can set up the default SPARQL endpoint using RAP ; >>> >>> http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:SPARQL_endpoint >>> >> >> I assumed this would probably be the most straightforward way, and am >> trying to follow it through. I was running with the latest stable >> Mediawiki and SMW (1.16.2 and 1.5.6) >> >> 1. Replaced SMW1.5.6 with the current svn version >> 2. This required the Validator extension; installed version 0.4.6 >> 3. Installed RAP 0.96 in SMW/libs >> 4. Using the LocalSettings recommended in Help:SPARQL_endpoint, I then get: >> >> PHP Fatal error: Class 'SMW_STORE_RAP' not found in >> /apps/rhul/resources/htdocs/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_GlobalFunctions.php >> on line 28 >> >> Commented out this line in LocalSettings and tried again; next error is: >> >> PHP Catchable fatal error: Argument 1 passed to >> SMWSQLStore2::getInProperties() must be an instance of SMWDataItem, >> instance of SMWWikiPageValue given, called in >> /apps/rhul/resources/htdocs/SemanticForms2.0.9/includes/SF_FormLinker.php on >> line 36 and defined in >> /apps/rhul/resources/htdocs/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/storage/SMW_SQLStore2.php >> on line 661 >> >> Is it worth following down this line or am I going to run into problems >> at each step? This is going to be a production system, and I'm a little >> nervous of building it around one-off hacks if that's what I need to do >> to get it going... I saw the last signs of development on RAP were from >> 2008 and am also wondering if it is likely to be supported in future. >> >> Thanks >> Graham >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload >> Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top >> priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve >> application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting >> the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Semediawiki-user mailing list >> Sem...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user >> > > > |
From: Dan B. <dan...@gm...> - 2011-04-18 12:09:13
|
Just to reiterate, SPARQL seems the most 'natural' solution, but I used CSV too, just to get the job done. About your question below... On 18 April 2011 10:21, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: > Have reluctantly switched to CSV as much simpler to do (will maybe > revisit RDF later). But I can't persuade Special:Ask to give me a list > of categories which are a subcategory of another category - is this > possible? It should be possible using the following query to do what you want: {{#ask: [[Some super category]] [[Category:+]] }} However, I seem to remember a discussion in the excellent SMW IRC channel [1] about this type of query failing for some reason. Let us know how you get on! Dan. [1] irc://irc.freenode.net/#Semantic-MediaWiki > Graham > > > On 04/17/11 15:15, Yaron Koren wrote: >> Hi, >> >> By the way, the use of RDF is definitely the most semantic option, but >> the simplest option, probably for both export and import, is to use >> the CSV or JSON query format, via the Special:Ask page. You would just >> have to create enough queries to get all the wiki's data - each query >> would be represented by a single URL, and then some cron job script >> would get all the URLs, parse their contents and save them to the DB. >> >> -Yaron >> >> On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Graham Seaman <gr...@th...> wrote: >>> On 04/14/11 22:59, Laurent Alquier wrote: >>>> The most natural fit to do this is to enable a triple store connector. >>>> >>>> You can set up the default SPARQL endpoint using RAP ; >>>> >>>> http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:SPARQL_endpoint >>>> >>> >>> I assumed this would probably be the most straightforward way, and am >>> trying to follow it through. I was running with the latest stable >>> Mediawiki and SMW (1.16.2 and 1.5.6) >>> >>> 1. Replaced SMW1.5.6 with the current svn version >>> 2. This required the Validator extension; installed version 0.4.6 >>> 3. Installed RAP 0.96 in SMW/libs >>> 4. Using the LocalSettings recommended in Help:SPARQL_endpoint, I then get: >>> >>> PHP Fatal error: Class 'SMW_STORE_RAP' not found in >>> /apps/rhul/resources/htdocs/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_GlobalFunctions.php >>> on line 28 >>> >>> Commented out this line in LocalSettings and tried again; next error is: >>> >>> PHP Catchable fatal error: Argument 1 passed to >>> SMWSQLStore2::getInProperties() must be an instance of SMWDataItem, >>> instance of SMWWikiPageValue given, called in >>> /apps/rhul/resources/htdocs/SemanticForms2.0.9/includes/SF_FormLinker.php on >>> line 36 and defined in >>> /apps/rhul/resources/htdocs/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/storage/SMW_SQLStore2.php >>> on line 661 >>> >>> Is it worth following down this line or am I going to run into problems >>> at each step? This is going to be a production system, and I'm a little >>> nervous of building it around one-off hacks if that's what I need to do >>> to get it going... I saw the last signs of development on RAP were from >>> 2008 and am also wondering if it is likely to be supported in future. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Graham >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload >>> Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top >>> priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve >>> application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting >>> the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Semediawiki-user mailing list >>> Sem...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user >>> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload > Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top > priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve > application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting > the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-user mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user > |
From: graham <gr...@th...> - 2011-04-18 13:12:04
|
On 04/18/11 13:09, Dan Bolser wrote: > > It should be possible using the following query to do what you want: > > {{#ask: [[Some super category]] [[Category:+]] }} > > > However, I seem to remember a discussion in the excellent SMW IRC > channel [1] about this type of query failing for some reason. Let us > know how you get on! > Not working for me either. Will try the IRC channel... Graham |
From: Yaron K. <ya...@wi...> - 2011-04-18 13:23:49
|
Hi, I don't believe such a query is currently possible in SMW. -Yaron On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:16 AM, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: > On 04/18/11 13:09, Dan Bolser wrote: > >> >> It should be possible using the following query to do what you want: >> >> {{#ask: [[Some super category]] [[Category:+]] }} >> >> >> However, I seem to remember a discussion in the excellent SMW IRC >> channel [1] about this type of query failing for some reason. Let us >> know how you get on! >> > > Not working for me either. Will try the IRC channel... > > Graham > -- WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com |
From: graham <gr...@th...> - 2011-04-18 13:35:41
|
So I guess I could add a property to all the category pages (eg property:subcategoryOf) and query on that? On 04/18/11 14:23, Yaron Koren wrote: > Hi, > > I don't believe such a query is currently possible in SMW. > > -Yaron > > On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:16 AM, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: >> On 04/18/11 13:09, Dan Bolser wrote: >> >>> >>> It should be possible using the following query to do what you want: >>> >>> {{#ask: [[Some super category]] [[Category:+]] }} >>> >>> >>> However, I seem to remember a discussion in the excellent SMW IRC >>> channel [1] about this type of query failing for some reason. Let us >>> know how you get on! >>> >> >> Not working for me either. Will try the IRC channel... >> >> Graham >> > > > |
From: Yaron K. <ya...@wi...> - 2011-04-18 13:52:23
|
Hi, You probably could do that, yes. Though - out of curiosity, why do you need to query directly on categories? It's the non-category pages that usually hold all the data. -Yaron On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:40 AM, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: > So I guess I could add a property to all the category pages (eg > property:subcategoryOf) and query on that? > > On 04/18/11 14:23, Yaron Koren wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I don't believe such a query is currently possible in SMW. >> >> -Yaron >> >> On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:16 AM, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: >>> On 04/18/11 13:09, Dan Bolser wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> It should be possible using the following query to do what you want: >>>> >>>> {{#ask: [[Some super category]] [[Category:+]] }} >>>> >>>> >>>> However, I seem to remember a discussion in the excellent SMW IRC >>>> channel [1] about this type of query failing for some reason. Let us >>>> know how you get on! >>>> >>> >>> Not working for me either. Will try the IRC channel... >>> >>> Graham >>> >> >> >> > > -- WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com |
From: graham <gr...@th...> - 2011-04-18 13:58:08
|
The wiki pages are each descriptions/links etc for an educational resource. Each page is in multiple categories: for course/subject, and for type (eg library, database, archive). I want to export all this nightly to a db which includes joining tables for subject/resource and type/resource, so need the two lists of subcategories to populate tables first. Graham On 04/18/11 14:52, Yaron Koren wrote: > Hi, > > You probably could do that, yes. Though - out of curiosity, why do you > need to query directly on categories? It's the non-category pages that > usually hold all the data. > > -Yaron > > On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:40 AM, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: >> So I guess I could add a property to all the category pages (eg >> property:subcategoryOf) and query on that? >> >> On 04/18/11 14:23, Yaron Koren wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I don't believe such a query is currently possible in SMW. >>> >>> -Yaron >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:16 AM, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: >>>> On 04/18/11 13:09, Dan Bolser wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> It should be possible using the following query to do what you want: >>>>> >>>>> {{#ask: [[Some super category]] [[Category:+]] }} >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> However, I seem to remember a discussion in the excellent SMW IRC >>>>> channel [1] about this type of query failing for some reason. Let us >>>>> know how you get on! >>>>> >>>> >>>> Not working for me either. Will try the IRC channel... >>>> >>>> Graham >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > |
From: Laurent A. <la...@al...> - 2011-04-18 14:55:10
|
This may be too late depending on the amount of content you already have in your wiki, but I found thisis usually a design issue for many SMW setups. SMW usually works best when moving all categorizations to properties. I usually recommend to use only one category per page, in a way similar to is-a relationship (or in your example Type). For example, a page can be about a Link, a Publication, a Biography - which would make up categories. Each of these pages would then have further categorizations in the way of properties : course, subject, topic, tags, etc. Taking this kind of design makes the content of the wiki a lot easier to deal with. I also recommend to add two text properties to any template : [[Has page title::{{SUBJECTPAGENAME}}| ]] [[Has page class::<whatever category your page has>| ]] This allows you to query on pages of a certain category only (and not subcategories), and use text filters for queries on categories and page titles. - Laurent On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:57 AM, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: > The wiki pages are each descriptions/links etc for an educational > resource. Each page is in multiple categories: for course/subject, and > for type (eg library, database, archive). I want to export all this > nightly to a db which includes joining tables for subject/resource and > type/resource, so need the two lists of subcategories to populate tables > first. > > Graham > > > On 04/18/11 14:52, Yaron Koren wrote: > > Hi, > > > > You probably could do that, yes. Though - out of curiosity, why do you > > need to query directly on categories? It's the non-category pages that > > usually hold all the data. > > > > -Yaron > > > > On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:40 AM, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: > >> So I guess I could add a property to all the category pages (eg > >> property:subcategoryOf) and query on that? > >> > >> On 04/18/11 14:23, Yaron Koren wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I don't believe such a query is currently possible in SMW. > >>> > >>> -Yaron > >>> > >>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:16 AM, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: > >>>> On 04/18/11 13:09, Dan Bolser wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> It should be possible using the following query to do what you want: > >>>>> > >>>>> {{#ask: [[Some super category]] [[Category:+]] }} > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> However, I seem to remember a discussion in the excellent SMW IRC > >>>>> channel [1] about this type of query failing for some reason. Let us > >>>>> know how you get on! > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Not working for me either. Will try the IRC channel... > >>>> > >>>> Graham > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload > Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top > priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve > application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting > the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-user mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user > -- - Laurent Alquier http://www.linfa.net |
From: Edward S. <de...@vs...> - 2011-04-18 15:11:41
|
This is actually similar to the approach I used for the Luminary system. Essentially, I have designed the SMW instance to coordinate with an OWL ontology; categories correspond to OwlClasses, pages correspond to OwlThings, etc. It also allows for automated processing of the wiki content (which I also do). -----Original Message----- From: Laurent Alquier [mailto:la...@al...] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:55 AM To: graham Cc: Yaron Koren; sem...@li... Subject: Re: [Semediawiki-user] best way to extract properties from smw? This may be too late depending on the amount of content you already have in your wiki, but I found thisis usually a design issue for many SMW setups. SMW usually works best when moving all categorizations to properties. I usually recommend to use only one category per page, in a way similar to is-a relationship (or in your example Type). For example, a page can be about a Link, a Publication, a Biography - which would make up categories. Each of these pages would then have further categorizations in the way of properties : course, subject, topic, tags, etc. Taking this kind of design makes the content of the wiki a lot easier to deal with. I also recommend to add two text properties to any template : [[Has page title::{{SUBJECTPAGENAME}}| ]] [[Has page class::<whatever category your page has>| ]] This allows you to query on pages of a certain category only (and not subcategories), and use text filters for queries on categories and page titles. - Laurent On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:57 AM, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: > The wiki pages are each descriptions/links etc for an educational > resource. Each page is in multiple categories: for course/subject, and > for type (eg library, database, archive). I want to export all this > nightly to a db which includes joining tables for subject/resource and > type/resource, so need the two lists of subcategories to populate tables > first. > > Graham > > > On 04/18/11 14:52, Yaron Koren wrote: > > Hi, > > > > You probably could do that, yes. Though - out of curiosity, why do you > > need to query directly on categories? It's the non-category pages that > > usually hold all the data. > > > > -Yaron > > > > On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:40 AM, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: > >> So I guess I could add a property to all the category pages (eg > >> property:subcategoryOf) and query on that? > >> > >> On 04/18/11 14:23, Yaron Koren wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I don't believe such a query is currently possible in SMW. > >>> > >>> -Yaron > >>> > >>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:16 AM, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: > >>>> On 04/18/11 13:09, Dan Bolser wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> It should be possible using the following query to do what you want: > >>>>> > >>>>> {{#ask: [[Some super category]] [[Category:+]] }} > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> However, I seem to remember a discussion in the excellent SMW IRC > >>>>> channel [1] about this type of query failing for some reason. Let us > >>>>> know how you get on! > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Not working for me either. Will try the IRC channel... > >>>> > >>>> Graham > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ > Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload > Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top > priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve > application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting > the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-user mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user > -- - Laurent Alquier http://www.linfa.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev _______________________________________________ Semediawiki-user mailing list Sem...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user This e-mail and any attachments are for the intended recipient(s) only and may contain proprietary, confidential material. If you are not the intended recipient, (even if the email address above is yours) do not use, retain, copy or disclose any part of this communication or any attachment as it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete. This email may be a personal communication from the sender and as such does not represent the views of the company. |
From: Dan B. <dan...@gm...> - 2011-04-18 15:22:06
|
On 18 April 2011 14:23, Yaron Koren <ya...@wi...> wrote: > Hi, > > I don't believe such a query is currently possible in SMW. Is this a bug? > -Yaron > > On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:16 AM, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: >> On 04/18/11 13:09, Dan Bolser wrote: >> >>> >>> It should be possible using the following query to do what you want: >>> >>> {{#ask: [[Some super category]] [[Category:+]] }} >>> >>> >>> However, I seem to remember a discussion in the excellent SMW IRC >>> channel [1] about this type of query failing for some reason. Let us >>> know how you get on! >>> >> >> Not working for me either. Will try the IRC channel... >> >> Graham >> > > > > -- > WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com > |
From: Jeroen De D. <jer...@gm...> - 2011-04-18 13:41:30
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Hey, > but I used CSV too, just to get the job done. Just to note: the latest release of SMW also has a DSV format, which might be easier to parse then Windows-style CSV. Cheers -- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. -- |
From: graham <gr...@th...> - 2011-04-18 15:40:51
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On 04/18/11 15:54, Laurent Alquier wrote: > This may be too late depending on the amount of content you already have > in your wiki, Yes, it may be. I am going to try both a hacky way round it (I just realised I can get the categories and subcategories by downloading the Category namespace as XML using Extension:DataTransfer, rather than csv, and that should give me a temporary fix), and a redesign, and see how well the redesign works before suggesting it to the people entering the data.. but I found thisis usually a design issue for many SMW > setups. SMW usually works best when moving all categorizations to > properties. > > I usually recommend to use only one category per page, in a way similar > to is-a relationship (or in your example Type). > Is there any particular reason (other than the way SMW is coded) to enforce single-inheritance here? I already have cases where people are suggesting to me that some resources really belong in two types. Ruling this out by enforcing it in the structure seems wrong. So maybe I should not use categories at all - if SMW doesn't like pages being in multiple categories - and do everything with properties instead. Would I lose anything by doing this? Graham > For example, a page can be about a Link, a Publication, a Biography - > which would make up categories. Each of these pages would then have > further categorizations in the way of properties : course, subject, > topic, tags, etc. > > Taking this kind of design makes the content of the wiki a lot easier to > deal with. > > I also recommend to add two text properties to any template : > > [[Has page title::{{SUBJECTPAGENAME}}| ]] > [[Has page class::<whatever category your page has>| ]] > > This allows you to query on pages of a certain category only (and not > subcategories), and use text filters for queries on categories and page > titles. > > - Laurent > > On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:57 AM, graham <gr...@th... > <mailto:gr...@th...>> wrote: > > The wiki pages are each descriptions/links etc for an educational > resource. Each page is in multiple categories: for course/subject, and > for type (eg library, database, archive). I want to export all this > nightly to a db which includes joining tables for subject/resource and > type/resource, so need the two lists of subcategories to populate tables > first. > > Graham > > > On 04/18/11 14:52, Yaron Koren wrote: > > Hi, > > > > You probably could do that, yes. Though - out of curiosity, why do you > > need to query directly on categories? It's the non-category pages that > > usually hold all the data. > > > > -Yaron > > > > On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:40 AM, graham <gr...@th... > <mailto:gr...@th...>> wrote: > >> So I guess I could add a property to all the category pages (eg > >> property:subcategoryOf) and query on that? > >> > >> On 04/18/11 14:23, Yaron Koren wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I don't believe such a query is currently possible in SMW. > >>> > >>> -Yaron > >>> > >>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:16 AM, graham <gr...@th... > <mailto:gr...@th...>> wrote: > >>>> On 04/18/11 13:09, Dan Bolser wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> It should be possible using the following query to do what you > want: > >>>>> > >>>>> {{#ask: [[Some super category]] [[Category:+]] }} > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> However, I seem to remember a discussion in the excellent SMW IRC > >>>>> channel [1] about this type of query failing for some reason. > Let us > >>>>> know how you get on! > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Not working for me either. Will try the IRC channel... > >>>> > >>>> Graham > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload > Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top > priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and > improve > application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about > boosting > the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-user mailing list > Sem...@li... > <mailto:Sem...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user > > > > > -- > - Laurent Alquier > http://www.linfa.net |
From: Laurent A. <la...@al...> - 2011-04-18 17:44:47
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> > Is there any particular reason (other than the way SMW is coded) to > enforce single-inheritance here? I already have cases where people are > suggesting to me that some resources really belong in two types. Ruling > this out by enforcing it in the structure seems wrong. So maybe I should > not use categories at all - if SMW doesn't like pages being in multiple > categories - and do everything with properties instead. > > Would I lose anything by doing this? > Categories doesn't do a good job at dealing with ambiguities. Often, when people want to assign multiple categories to a page, there is an underlying need for either more explicit relationships or break up a page into two entities. In my environment, I can see often people using the same name to refer to a system, its main user interface, its database and the acronym giving its name to the system. So, instead of having a single page with these categories assigned, I end up creating an Acronym page for the acronym definition, an Application page for the UI, a Data source page for the database and a System page to the overall description as a system. It is more work that many people would like initially, but it does a great job at lifting ambiguities and getting people to think about what it is they are talking about in further pages. I also had some success using a 'catch all' relationship such as 'Is related to' and letting people make free associations with other pages. Once that property has been used often enough for a given category, you can look at the values people used and decide if a new property / relationship would be more appropriate to catch what people had in mind. - Laurent On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 11:40 AM, graham <gr...@th...> wrote: > On 04/18/11 15:54, Laurent Alquier wrote: > > This may be too late depending on the amount of content you already have > > in your wiki, > > Yes, it may be. I am going to try both a hacky way round it (I just > realised I can get the categories and subcategories by downloading the > Category namespace as XML using Extension:DataTransfer, rather than csv, > and that should give me a temporary fix), and a redesign, and see how > well the redesign works before suggesting it to the people entering the > data.. > > but I found thisis usually a design issue for many SMW > > setups. SMW usually works best when moving all categorizations to > > properties. > > > > I usually recommend to use only one category per page, in a way similar > > to is-a relationship (or in your example Type). > > > Is there any particular reason (other than the way SMW is coded) to > enforce single-inheritance here? I already have cases where people are > suggesting to me that some resources really belong in two types. Ruling > this out by enforcing it in the structure seems wrong. So maybe I should > not use categories at all - if SMW doesn't like pages being in multiple > categories - and do everything with properties instead. > > Would I lose anything by doing this? > > Graham > > > > For example, a page can be about a Link, a Publication, a Biography - > > which would make up categories. Each of these pages would then have > > further categorizations in the way of properties : course, subject, > > topic, tags, etc. > > > > Taking this kind of design makes the content of the wiki a lot easier to > > deal with. > > > > I also recommend to add two text properties to any template : > > > > [[Has page title::{{SUBJECTPAGENAME}}| ]] > > [[Has page class::<whatever category your page has>| ]] > > > > This allows you to query on pages of a certain category only (and not > > subcategories), and use text filters for queries on categories and page > > titles. > > > > - Laurent > > > > On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:57 AM, graham <gr...@th... > > <mailto:gr...@th...>> wrote: > > > > The wiki pages are each descriptions/links etc for an educational > > resource. Each page is in multiple categories: for course/subject, > and > > for type (eg library, database, archive). I want to export all this > > nightly to a db which includes joining tables for subject/resource > and > > type/resource, so need the two lists of subcategories to populate > tables > > first. > > > > Graham > > > > > > On 04/18/11 14:52, Yaron Koren wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > You probably could do that, yes. Though - out of curiosity, why do > you > > > need to query directly on categories? It's the non-category pages > that > > > usually hold all the data. > > > > > > -Yaron > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:40 AM, graham <gr...@th... > > <mailto:gr...@th...>> wrote: > > >> So I guess I could add a property to all the category pages (eg > > >> property:subcategoryOf) and query on that? > > >> > > >> On 04/18/11 14:23, Yaron Koren wrote: > > >>> Hi, > > >>> > > >>> I don't believe such a query is currently possible in SMW. > > >>> > > >>> -Yaron > > >>> > > >>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:16 AM, graham <gr...@th... > > <mailto:gr...@th...>> wrote: > > >>>> On 04/18/11 13:09, Dan Bolser wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> It should be possible using the following query to do what you > > want: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> {{#ask: [[Some super category]] [[Category:+]] }} > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> However, I seem to remember a discussion in the excellent SMW > IRC > > >>>>> channel [1] about this type of query failing for some reason. > > Let us > > >>>>> know how you get on! > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Not working for me either. Will try the IRC channel... > > >>>> > > >>>> Graham > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload > > Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top > > priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and > > improve > > application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about > > boosting > > the value of server virtualization. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev > > _______________________________________________ > > Semediawiki-user mailing list > > Sem...@li... > > <mailto:Sem...@li...> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user > > > > > > > > > > -- > > - Laurent Alquier > > http://www.linfa.net > > -- - Laurent Alquier http://www.linfa.net |