From: itsme213 <its...@ho...> - 2006-05-22 17:10:15
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Currently: [[friend of:: Joe]] does the following: 1. create the semantic link to Joe 2. displays Joe i.e. The target name is displayed on the current page, unless the user provides some alternative text using [[friend of:: Joe | alt text ]] but the relation name is not displayed (presumably under the assumption that some free text provides that). Would it be sensible / possible for both to be treated similarly i.e. both target name and relation name should be displayable if the user wishes, and both should have an alternate text option. Concrete syntax might be something like: [[friend of | ::Joe] i.e. no alternate text for relation means include the relation name in the displayed html. Correspondingly, the following wiki text: I am [[friend of | friends with :: Joe]] would treat "friends with" as alternate relation text and display it, presumably with a hyperlink to Relation:friend_of. I am <a href=...>friends with</a> <a href=..>Joe</a> I think this could be kept backward compatible with current usage. Thoughts? p.s. A separate but related question: Does mediawiki (& semantic mediawiki) store the wiki text raw including references to other wikiNodes? If so, does this make renamings difficult, requiring forwarding pages etc? Suppose all resolvable links were stored (at the time the wiki page is saved) as internal references (or URI) to the target, while still keeping around the original text and alternate text used for that link e.g. [[ ({[< 8277a927fe2>]}) orig_text | alt_text ]] would that make maintaining the graph easier? The orig_text is there only to establish the initial link (when it resolves) and as a fall-back for the dangling reference if the target is deleted. The alt_text is there only for display. |
From: S P. <ski...@ea...> - 2006-05-23 21:37:47
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itsme213 wrote: [Stuff about display of relation formatting] > p.s. A separate but related question: Does mediawiki (& semantic > mediawiki) store the wiki text raw including references to other > wikiNodes? (Your P.S. is a better question for the semediawiki-devel mailing list.) Disclaimer: I'm a newbie, this is just what I learned browsing the wikidb with phpMyAdmin. Yes, in page table as a BLOB. MediaWiki doesn't alter what you wrote, except for certain edit-time replacements like ~~~~. It does track the link and SMW relation info in tables (pagelink and smw_relations) for querying. These tables stores the title of the object of a link, not its ID. > If so, does this make renamings difficult, requiring forwarding pages > etc? It makes them straightforward. A rename updates the subject in tables, but not the object title. MediaWiki editors are supposed to use What Links Here to repair links to renamed pages. And because a rename leaves a refresh page under the original title, the links to renamed articles aren't broken, just indirect. > Suppose all resolvable links were stored (at the time the wiki page is > saved) as internal references (or URI) to the target, while still > keeping around the original text and alternate text used for that link > e.g. > > [[ ({[< 8277a927fe2>]}) orig_text | alt_text ]] > > would that make maintaining the graph easier? The orig_text is there > only to establish the initial link (when it resolves) and as a > fall-back for the dangling reference if the target is deleted. The > alt_text is there only for display. That's just a different approach. Again, pagelinks and smw_relations store the graph edges (?) extracted from the page text, and they store the target/object's title, not its ID. I imagine that makes certain queries slower. -- =S |
From: S P. <ski...@ea...> - 2006-05-23 22:00:31
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That's an interesting idea. The convention on wiki.ontoworld.org is to have verbs, thus [[is friend of::Joe]], [[has feature::], [[is located in::] etc., and these don't normally flow well if you displayed them in page text. Displaying the relation text as a hyperlink to the relation's page seems like overkill: all relations already appear as hyperlinks in the infobox at the bottom and the relation page isn't currently interesting. If and when the Relation:Is friend of page automatically displays a table of all the extant "is friend of" relations in the wiki (as Category: pages show everything in a category), following the hyperlink to a relation page becomes a lot more useful for exploration. People have asked to represent the type of hyperlink of a relation in the HTML. I filed feature request 1475177 to support RDF/A's use of the rel attribute, e.g. <a href="/wiki/Joe" rel="smw:_Relation-3AIs_friend_of">Joe</a> Technically, these changes to HTML display are hard to do because IIRC the SMWParseRelationsCallback() code detects relations and then modifies the page text, so that regular MediaWiki processing can turn [[Joe]] into an HTML hyperlink and put it in the pagelinks table like any other MediaWiki link. -- =S itsme213 wrote: > Currently: > [[friend of:: Joe]] > does the following: > 1. create the semantic link to Joe > 2. displays Joe > > i.e. The target name is displayed on the current page, unless the user > provides some alternative text using > [[friend of:: Joe | alt text ]] > > but the relation name is not displayed (presumably under the > assumption that some free text provides that). > > Would it be sensible / possible for both to be treated similarly i.e. > both target name and relation name should be displayable if the user > wishes, and both should have an alternate text option. > > Concrete syntax might be something like: > > [[friend of | ::Joe] > > i.e. no alternate text for relation means include the relation name in > the displayed html. > > Correspondingly, the following wiki text: > > I am [[friend of | friends with :: Joe]] > > would treat "friends with" as alternate relation text and display it, > presumably with a hyperlink to Relation:friend_of. > > I am <a href=...>friends with</a> <a href=..>Joe</a> > > I think this could be kept backward compatible with current usage. > > Thoughts? |
From: itsme213 <its...@ho...> - 2006-06-02 05:00:43
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From: "S Page" <ski...@ea...> > Displaying the relation text as a hyperlink to the relation's page seems > like overkill: I was suggesting it be shown there only if the user chose to e.g. [[friend of | ::Joe] CSS could make it less conspicuous until a :hover or something like that. It avoids duplicating the name. Sometimes wiki pages may be written primarily as data rather than narrative (more likely with these onto-smarts!) , it could be a big part of the page text. |
From: itsme213 <its...@ho...> - 2006-06-02 05:29:04
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Duh. I should have read more before posting. This can already be done [[:friend of::Joe]] Sorry for the noise ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "itsme213" <its...@ho...> To: <sem...@li...> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [Semediawiki-user] Semantic attributes - names vs. display of relation link > From: "S Page" <ski...@ea...> > >> Displaying the relation text as a hyperlink to the relation's page seems >> like overkill: > > I was suggesting it be shown there only if the user chose to e.g. > [[friend of | ::Joe] > > CSS could make it less conspicuous until a :hover or something like that. > > It avoids duplicating the name. Sometimes wiki pages may be written > primarily as data rather than narrative (more likely with these > onto-smarts!) , it could be a big part of the page text. > > ------------------------------------------------------- > All the advantages of Linux Managed Hosting--Without the Cost and Risk! > Fully trained technicians. The highest number of Red Hat certifications in > the hosting industry. Fanatical Support. Click to learn more > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=107521&bid=248729&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-user mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user > |
From: S P. <ski...@ea...> - 2006-05-23 22:50:15
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Speaking of changes to display, it seems useful to easily *not* display units. A lot of pages and templates put the units in a hyperlink, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego has Area 840.0 km² <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_kilometre> where km² is a link to Square_kilometre made with [[Square_kilometre|km²]] . <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_kilometre> We can represent the attribute in SMW 0.4 as [[area:=840 km²]], but then the units appear as part of the value display. To not display the units you have to repeat the number, [[area:=840 km²|840]] , which is prone to error. I'm not sure what the wiki shortcut for not showing units could be. Maybe putting a trailing | with no space could only show the number. Currently it falls through to chopping off "area:" as if it were a namespace, so you see =840 km² Some number display is even more complicated, e.g. in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun both the number and the units are hyperlinks: Surface area 6.09 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_E18_m%C2%B2>×10^12 km² <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_kilometre> the 6.09 part is a hyperlink to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_E18_m%C2%B2 page that explains this order of magnitude. This conflicts with the SMW tooltip that displays the area in other units. I couldn't represent both at once in wiki source. People are cramming a lot of info into those hyperlinks, it's almost to the point they need a context menu to document and link to attribute type, unit conversion, order of magnitude, units explanation, etc. -- =S |