From: Yaron K. <ya...@gm...> - 2008-07-24 15:35:40
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Hi, Currently semantic properties all display a warning message when they're given a null value (e.g., [[Has country::]]). That makes sense if all properties are hand-coded, but if a site uses semantic templates, it could easily end up with many blank values. [1] Each of those gets a little warning flag, which could make many people think that something horrible has happened. Of course, an administrator can choose to not have warnings displayed, but many don't know how to do that, and sometimes it's useful to see the real error messages. Can warnings for null values be removed? A null value for a number just doesn't strike me as invalid data in the same way that, say, a value of "abcd" would be; I believe most relational databases, for example, allow null values for any type by default. -Yaron [1] http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/HacDC |
From: Temlakos <tem...@gm...> - 2008-07-24 15:44:12
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Yaron: Are you sure that's necessary? Whenever I write a semantic template, I use {{#if: statements to make sure that no annotation takes place unless the relevant parameter exists. And a null number strikes me as a show-stopper if we ever wanted to do arithmetic with those annotated numbers. Which is something I've always wanted to do. Temlakos Yaron Koren wrote: > Hi, > > Currently semantic properties all display a warning message when > they're given a null value (e.g., [[Has country::]]). That makes sense > if all properties are hand-coded, but if a site uses semantic > templates, it could easily end up with many blank values. [1] Each of > those gets a little warning flag, which could make many people think > that something horrible has happened. Of course, an administrator can > choose to not have warnings displayed, but many don't know how to do > that, and sometimes it's useful to see the real error messages. Can > warnings for null values be removed? A null value for a number just > doesn't strike me as invalid data in the same way that, say, a value > of "abcd" would be; I believe most relational databases, for example, > allow null values for any type by default. > > -Yaron > > [1] http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/HacDC > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > |
From: Jon L. <dat...@gm...> - 2008-07-24 16:04:47
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Allow null values by default; but perhaps also allow a way to make null values verboten for a given property or type. E.g., an "Forbid nulls" special property. -- Jonathan "Dataweaver" Lang |
From: Asheesh L. <as...@cr...> - 2008-07-28 06:41:29
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On Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Temlakos wrote: > Yaron: > > Are you sure that's necessary? Whenever I write a semantic template, I > use {{#if: statements to make sure that no annotation takes place unless > the relevant parameter exists. And a null number strikes me as a > show-stopper if we ever wanted to do arithmetic with those annotated > numbers. Which is something I've always wanted to do. I agree - I think it might be nice to have an option like, "Null values are not stored at all." A property page could have an attribute "Allows null," as Yaron suggested. Then the #if wouldn't be necessary, which would be really great. It *is* a pain to add all those, I find. -- Asheesh. -- The days are all empty and the nights are unreal. |
From: Yaron K. <ya...@gm...> - 2008-07-24 16:01:39
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Hi, Yes, it's possible to get around this problem using #if statements, but that seems like an awful lot of work: an #if call for every field in every template. And null values wouldn't have to be stored in the semantic-property tables, just like (I assume) they're not stored now, so there wouldn't have to be any extra precautions taken for such values - no show-stopping expected. -Yaron On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:44 AM, Temlakos <tem...@gm...> wrote: > Yaron: > > Are you sure that's necessary? Whenever I write a semantic template, I > use {{#if: statements to make sure that no annotation takes place unless > the relevant parameter exists. And a null number strikes me as a > show-stopper if we ever wanted to do arithmetic with those annotated > numbers. Which is something I've always wanted to do. > > Temlakos > > Yaron Koren wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Currently semantic properties all display a warning message when > > they're given a null value (e.g., [[Has country::]]). That makes sense > > if all properties are hand-coded, but if a site uses semantic > > templates, it could easily end up with many blank values. [1] Each of > > those gets a little warning flag, which could make many people think > > that something horrible has happened. Of course, an administrator can > > choose to not have warnings displayed, but many don't know how to do > > that, and sometimes it's useful to see the real error messages. Can > > warnings for null values be removed? A null value for a number just > > doesn't strike me as invalid data in the same way that, say, a value > > of "abcd" would be; I believe most relational databases, for example, > > allow null values for any type by default. > > > > -Yaron > > > > [1] http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/HacDC > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the > world > > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > > Sem...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > |
From: Temlakos <tem...@gm...> - 2008-07-24 17:16:46
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Yaron: Maybe it's a lot of work, but I have another reason to use #if statements: formatting. My templates are either "infoboxes" or else are query-driven and thus in no danger of producing a null annotation. And a dangling infobox line looks worse than a null-value warning. Temlakos Yaron Koren wrote: > Hi, > > Yes, it's possible to get around this problem using #if statements, > but that seems like an awful lot of work: an #if call for every field > in every template. > > And null values wouldn't have to be stored in the semantic-property > tables, just like (I assume) they're not stored now, so there wouldn't > have to be any extra precautions taken for such values - no > show-stopping expected. > > -Yaron > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:44 AM, Temlakos <tem...@gm... > <mailto:tem...@gm...>> wrote: > > Yaron: > > Are you sure that's necessary? Whenever I write a semantic template, I > use {{#if: statements to make sure that no annotation takes place > unless > the relevant parameter exists. And a null number strikes me as a > show-stopper if we ever wanted to do arithmetic with those annotated > numbers. Which is something I've always wanted to do. > > Temlakos > > Yaron Koren wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Currently semantic properties all display a warning message when > > they're given a null value (e.g., [[Has country::]]). That makes > sense > > if all properties are hand-coded, but if a site uses semantic > > templates, it could easily end up with many blank values. [1] > Each of > > those gets a little warning flag, which could make many people think > > that something horrible has happened. Of course, an > administrator can > > choose to not have warnings displayed, but many don't know how to do > > that, and sometimes it's useful to see the real error messages. Can > > warnings for null values be removed? A null value for a number just > > doesn't strike me as invalid data in the same way that, say, a value > > of "abcd" would be; I believe most relational databases, for > example, > > allow null values for any type by default. > > > > -Yaron > > > > [1] http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/HacDC > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move > Developer's challenge > > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win > great prizes > > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere > in the world > > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > <http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > > Sem...@li... > <mailto:Sem...@li...> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win > great prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in > the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > <http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/> > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > Sem...@li... > <mailto:Sem...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > > |
From: Yaron K. <ya...@gm...> - 2008-07-24 17:30:01
|
Hi, Sorry, I didn't mean that you were doing too much work, just that it's too much work to require every administrator to do. And a "Forbid nulls" special property would be a nice idea. -Yaron On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Temlakos <tem...@gm...> wrote: > Yaron: > > Maybe it's a lot of work, but I have another reason to use #if > statements: formatting. My templates are either "infoboxes" or else are > query-driven and thus in no danger of producing a null annotation. And a > dangling infobox line looks worse than a null-value warning. > > Temlakos > > Yaron Koren wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Yes, it's possible to get around this problem using #if statements, > > but that seems like an awful lot of work: an #if call for every field > > in every template. > > > > And null values wouldn't have to be stored in the semantic-property > > tables, just like (I assume) they're not stored now, so there wouldn't > > have to be any extra precautions taken for such values - no > > show-stopping expected. > > > > -Yaron > > > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:44 AM, Temlakos <tem...@gm... > > <mailto:tem...@gm...>> wrote: > > > > Yaron: > > > > Are you sure that's necessary? Whenever I write a semantic template, > I > > use {{#if: statements to make sure that no annotation takes place > > unless > > the relevant parameter exists. And a null number strikes me as a > > show-stopper if we ever wanted to do arithmetic with those annotated > > numbers. Which is something I've always wanted to do. > > > > Temlakos > > > > Yaron Koren wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Currently semantic properties all display a warning message when > > > they're given a null value (e.g., [[Has country::]]). That makes > > sense > > > if all properties are hand-coded, but if a site uses semantic > > > templates, it could easily end up with many blank values. [1] > > Each of > > > those gets a little warning flag, which could make many people > think > > > that something horrible has happened. Of course, an > > administrator can > > > choose to not have warnings displayed, but many don't know how to > do > > > that, and sometimes it's useful to see the real error messages. Can > > > warnings for null values be removed? A null value for a number just > > > doesn't strike me as invalid data in the same way that, say, a > value > > > of "abcd" would be; I believe most relational databases, for > > example, > > > allow null values for any type by default. > > > > > > -Yaron > > > > > > [1] http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/HacDC > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move > > Developer's challenge > > > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win > > great prizes > > > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere > > in the world > > > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > > <http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > > > Sem...@li... > > <mailto:Sem...@li...> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > > challenge > > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win > > great prizes > > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in > > the world > > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > > <http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/> > > _______________________________________________ > > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > > Sem...@li... > > <mailto:Sem...@li...> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > |