From: SlowPic <sl...@we...> - 2005-03-01 16:46:57
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Hi all, I get sound problems since the day before yesterday and have no idea what this could be. Here are the steps I can take repeatedly with reproducable results: 1. For MIDI only I use Timidity with soundfonts (no jackd): timidity -iAv -B0,8 -Os -L /usr/local/share/timidity/soundfonts -c ./SoundFonts.cfg 2. Start Rosegarden and play a Rosegarden file. Everything sounds fine, smooth reverb etc. 3. Export the fine sounding file as MIDI to file.mid 4. Leave Rosegarden (timidity still running) 5. Play the newly created file "file.mid" with pmidi -p 128:0 file.mid Now, this is the strange part: The MIDI file sounds harsh and by far not as smooth as it sounded through Rosegarden. Remember that TiMidity as the sound engine is still and always running. 6. Reopen Rosegarden and import "file.mid" for a check: It sounds fine again. 7. Trying step "5." with timidity alone also sounds harsh. So, the question is, how can this file sound good with Rosegarden through TiMidity but harsh with TiMidity alone? I must add that this is relatively new for me as I have already produced an audio CD with this setup where everyth was great. No idea, what to look after :-/ Thanks for your time and insight, Frank |
From: Silvan <dmm...@us...> - 2005-03-02 01:05:24
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On Tuesday 01 March 2005 11:46 am, SlowPic wrote: > So, the question is, how can this file sound good > with Rosegarden through TiMidity but harsh with > TiMidity alone? Send me file.mid and I'll play with it. It's entirely possible that there's some weird MIDI export problem. -- Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <dmm...@us...> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/ http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/ |
From: SlowPic <sl...@we...> - 2005-03-02 20:25:17
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Thanks to Silvan my previously posted request concerning "Sound issue, perhaps more MIDI related .." can be broken down the to the interaction of Rosegarden and LADSPA: * In Rosegarden the sound is smooth, warm and enriched with tasteful reverb. Outside Rosegarden, with TiMidity or pmidi or kmid alone, the sound is harsh and lacks any smooth- ness, due to the lack of ladspa processing, I guess. * Rosegarden uses ladspa plugins for effect handling while timidity and others do not. I read some log output and found, that there are not less than 160 ladspa plugins (*.so) available on my system. Rosegarden seems to use them with great success. My question resumes to ---------------------- How can I achieve the same ladspa effects and effect settings Rosegarden uses, outside of Rosegarden, ie. with TiMidity or other soft synths alone? What I want ----------- I only want to render a *.mid into a *.wav file, including the smooth effects settings Rosegarden offers. *Any* proposal of how to combine any tool to achieve this is welcome. I have no realtime kernel modules available, though, so I need sth like timidity, I guess. TIA, Frank |
From: Vladimir S. <vl...@eh...> - 2005-03-02 21:40:49
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On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 21:25:06 +0100, SlowPic <sl...@we...> wrote: > Thanks to Silvan my previously posted request > concerning "Sound issue, perhaps more MIDI related .." > can be broken down the to the interaction of > Rosegarden and LADSPA: > > * In Rosegarden the sound is smooth, warm and > enriched with tasteful reverb. Outside > Rosegarden, with TiMidity or pmidi or kmid > alone, the sound is harsh and lacks any smooth- > ness, due to the lack of ladspa processing, > I guess. There's something wrong here. You're talking about midi playback? If you're not using fluidsynth or any other softsyth with soundfont playing abilities, there is no way to hear reverb from rosegarden alone. Ladspa can not be used for on-board synth (as emu10k1 is) directly neither. Anyway, I would like to know what's giving that "warm" sound, too. > * Rosegarden uses ladspa plugins for effect > handling while timidity and others do not. > I read some log output and found, that there > are not less than 160 ladspa plugins (*.so) > available on my system. Rosegarden seems to > use them with great success. Most common ladspa reverb plugins are GVerb, Freeverb and TAPReverbator. Use these as starting point. I personaly like TAP plugins collection. But, strange part is (again) that rosegarden doesn't use them by default. > My question resumes to > ---------------------- > How can I achieve the same ladspa effects and > effect settings Rosegarden uses, outside of > Rosegarden, ie. with TiMidity or other soft > synths alone? > > What I want > ----------- > I only want to render a *.mid into a *.wav file, > including the smooth effects settings Rosegarden > offers. timidity can really do a great job here. > *Any* proposal of how to combine any tool to > achieve this is welcome. I have no realtime kernel > modules available, though, so I need sth like > timidity, I guess. I can only say how I do that: Export midi from rosegarden, Convert it to the .wav with timidity and then I add effect to the newly created wav using ReZound (Sweep, Audacity...) Another one (I use for preliminary testing): (Just to remind that I have emu10k1 synth chip on SBLive! AND 433MHz PII :( ) Using alsamixer I switch music capture on, then using ecamegapedal I find out what settings fit best in my idea. (optionaly, you can directly save ecamegapedal's output into wav) Disadvantage of the second way: You will not have unprocessed wav for further editings :) Vlada > TIA, > Frank > > |
From: SlowPic <sl...@we...> - 2005-03-02 22:11:32
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> There's something wrong here. You're talking about midi playback? Yes, I'm talking about MIDI playback only. I hacked some classical pieces into the notation editor, let them be interpreted and addes some effects (reverb mostly) which was well done after all. > If > you're not using fluidsynth or any other softsyth with soundfont > playing abilities, there is no way to hear reverb from rosegarden > alone. Ladspa can not be used for on-board synth (as emu10k1 is) > directly neither. Anyway, I would like to know what's giving that > "warm" sound, too. The one and only softsynth I'm using in this setup is timidity. I use it with a single custom soundfont that I simply put together from different sources to get what I need in one file. Again, within Rosegarden, the *.rg file sounds very fine through timidity. >> * Rosegarden uses ladspa plugins for effect >> handling while timidity and others do not. >> I read some log output and found, that there >> are not less than 160 ladspa plugins (*.so) >> available on my system. Rosegarden seems to >> use them with great success. > > Most common ladspa reverb plugins are GVerb, Freeverb and > TAPReverbator. Use these as starting point. I personaly like TAP > plugins collection. But, strange part is (again) that rosegarden > doesn't use them by default. Well, that Rosegarden uses LADSPA as default is a guess. When I start Rosegarden in a Shell, at the very beginning I can read the lines: rosegarden: main: Showing startup logo rosegarden (sequence manager): getSequencerPlugins - getting plugin information PluginFactory::instance(ladspa): creating new LADSPAPluginFactory [/home/frank/.ladspa] [/usr/local/lib/ladspa] [/usr/lib/ladspa] rosegarden (sequence manager): got 69477 pieces of plugin data at GUI side which let me think, it really uses LADSPA for effects processing. Sorry enough, I don't know if and where those effect plugins are accessible from within RG. I'm only talking abt. effects added to the MIDI playback within Rosegarden (little knobs) which is then sent to TiMidity ... I guess. >> What I want >> ----------- >> I only want to render a *.mid into a *.wav file, >> including the smooth effects settings Rosegarden >> offers. > > timidity can really do a great job here. Yes, in principle it does! What I realize these days is that there are no effects or very different effects in the resulting *.wav file than I get within Rosegarden. I'm still thinking, what I hear while Rosegarden playbacks MIDI should be the same as what I can hear in the rendered MIDI file, because Rosegarden uses the exactly same running timidity process as I use for the rendering to *.wav when Rosegarden is terminated. In fact, I would much prefer to render directly to *.wav from within Rosegarden, but my kernel lacks realtime support, so I expect more than enough xruns, clicks and such ..... > I can only say how I do that: > Export midi from rosegarden, > Convert it to the .wav with timidity and > then I add effect to the newly created wav using ReZound (Sweep, > Audacity...) This would only add global effects/reverb, right? Within Rosegarden I can twist the effect knows as far as I like for each instruent. I would like to get *this* into a *.wav file. > Another one (I use for preliminary testing): > (Just to remind that I have emu10k1 synth chip on SBLive! AND 433MHz > PII :( ) > Using alsamixer I switch music capture on, > then using ecamegapedal I find out what settings fit best in my idea. > (optionaly, you can directly save ecamegapedal's output into wav) I've lots of MIDI files to be rendered, so I'd rather like batch processing them with no interaction. Usually I start a "for" loop in the shell and let timidity do the work alone. AFAIK, rendering a *.wav from a *.mid through TiMidity does not require realtime capabilities, as it is a silent process running in a simple shell with no audible output. Only the Rosegarden like effect settings are missing :( > You will not have unprocessed wav for further editings :) Would be no problem for me if I could save to *.wav what Rosegarden makes out of my MIDI files and internal effects. I need a way to get *.wav files with reproducable soundfont and effect settings. Frank |
From: Vladimir S. <vl...@eh...> - 2005-03-02 22:49:14
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On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 23:11:20 +0100, SlowPic <sl...@we...> wrote: >>> * Rosegarden uses ladspa plugins for effect >>> handling while timidity and others do not. >>> I read some log output and found, that there >>> are not less than 160 ladspa plugins (*.so) >>> available on my system. Rosegarden seems to >>> use them with great success. >> Most common ladspa reverb plugins are GVerb, Freeverb and >> TAPReverbator. Use these as starting point. I personaly like TAP >> plugins collection. But, strange part is (again) that rosegarden >> doesn't use them by default. > > Well, that Rosegarden uses LADSPA as default is a guess. > When I start Rosegarden in a Shell, at the very beginning > I can read the lines: > > rosegarden: main: Showing startup logo > rosegarden (sequence manager): getSequencerPlugins - getting plugin > information > PluginFactory::instance(ladspa): creating new LADSPAPluginFactory > [/home/frank/.ladspa] [/usr/local/lib/ladspa] [/usr/lib/ladspa] > rosegarden (sequence manager): got 69477 pieces of plugin data at GUI > side > > which let me think, it really uses LADSPA for effects > processing. Sorry enough, I don't know if and where > those effect plugins are accessible from within RG. Rosegarden just checks for ladspa effects in case you want them to be applied to dssi-synth and audio tracks. And will be enabled (accessible) if jack is running and audio/dssi-synth track(s) is (are) present. > I'm only talking abt. effects added to the MIDI playback > within Rosegarden (little knobs) which is then sent to > TiMidity ... I guess. Could be that! Rosegarden's reverb (expression, chorus, and so on) knobs are for internal use only. They are not exported into midi file you want to convert to the wav. To be honest, I've forgot about that knobs when using timidity... I'll check... That gave me an idea. Have you tried sth like: timidity -iAv -B0,8 -Or1sSl -L /usr/local/share/timidity/soundfonts -c ./SoundFonts.cfg to capture .wav realtime? Don't know if that will work, but that's just another idea :) BTW, timidity uses freeverb internaly for rever effect, but it is set to off by default. Could be posibile that spinning knob turns it on. >>> What I want >>> ----------- >>> I only want to render a *.mid into a *.wav file, >>> including the smooth effects settings Rosegarden >>> offers. >> timidity can really do a great job here. > > Yes, in principle it does! What I realize these days > is that there are no effects or very different effects > in the resulting *.wav file than I get within Rosegarden. > > I'm still thinking, what I hear while Rosegarden > playbacks MIDI should be the same as what I can > hear in the rendered MIDI file, because Rosegarden > uses the exactly same running timidity process as > I use for the rendering to *.wav when Rosegarden > is terminated. > > In fact, I would much prefer to render directly to > *.wav from within Rosegarden, but my kernel lacks > realtime support, so I expect more than enough > xruns, clicks and such ..... > >> I can only say how I do that: >> Export midi from rosegarden, >> Convert it to the .wav with timidity and >> then I add effect to the newly created wav using ReZound (Sweep, >> Audacity...) > > This would only add global effects/reverb, right? > Within Rosegarden I can twist the effect knows > as far as I like for each instruent. I would like > to get *this* into a *.wav file. Yup, that's restiction! If what's described before doesn't work (realtime capture), you could fire up ecamegapedal (or any similar program) and route it's output into wav file. Of course, you'll need to turn on wave capture from your soundcard mixer first. >> Another one (I use for preliminary testing): >> (Just to remind that I have emu10k1 synth chip on SBLive! AND 433MHz >> PII :( ) >> Using alsamixer I switch music capture on, >> then using ecamegapedal I find out what settings fit best in my idea. >> (optionaly, you can directly save ecamegapedal's output into wav) > > I've lots of MIDI files to be rendered, so I'd rather > like batch processing them with no interaction. Usually > I start a "for" loop in the shell and let timidity do > the work alone. AFAIK, rendering a *.wav from a *.mid > through TiMidity does not require realtime capabilities, > as it is a silent process running in a simple shell > with no audible output. > > Only the Rosegarden like effect settings are missing :( > >> You will not have unprocessed wav for further editings :) > > Would be no problem for me if I could save to *.wav > what Rosegarden makes out of my MIDI files and internal > effects. I need a way to get *.wav files with reproducable > soundfont and effect settings. > > Frank All this topic is a bit touchy... You must experimen a little. But, let me know if you figure out something. Anything! Vlada |
From: SlowPic <sl...@we...> - 2005-03-02 23:55:07
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> Rosegarden just checks for ladspa effects in case you want them to be > applied to dssi-synth and audio tracks. And will be enabled > (accessible) if jack is running and audio/dssi-synth track(s) is (are) > present. Good to know! > Could be that! Rosegarden's reverb (expression, chorus, and so on) > knobs are for internal use only. They are not exported into midi file > you want to convert to the wav. To be honest, I've forgot about that > knobs when using timidity... I'll check... That gave me an idea. Have > you tried sth like: > > timidity -iAv -B0,8 -Or1sSl -L /usr/local/share/timidity/soundfonts -c > ./SoundFonts.cfg > > to capture .wav realtime? Don't know if that will work, but that's just > another idea :) I will try this tomorrow as it's too late know :D Silvan gave me the hint to insert controller 91 values at the needed positions. The point is that *Rosegarden* controllers are currently not saved with a MIDI exported file, thus they are all reset to default the next time we open a MIDI file. If instead we insert reverb settings as MIDI controller values with the event or matrix editor, those values are also exported to *.mid files. This does the job for me as I only need some initial touch of reverb for the instruments, so they do not sound too dry. > BTW, timidity uses freeverb internaly for rever effect, but it is set > to off by default. Could be posibile that spinning knob turns it on. I played with the parameters the last day, but it didn't help. The point was that *no* reverb controller information was stored into the MIDI file by Rosegarden. This is considered a bug. > If what's described before doesn't work (realtime capture), you could > fire up ecamegapedal (or any similar program) and route it's output > into wav file. Of course, you'll need to turn on wave capture from your > soundcard mixer first. For batch processing purposes, I want to keep all this as simple as possible. TiMidity can be run easily in a "for" loop. This is, what would help me a lot more than opening windows and dealing with mice and knobs ;) > All this topic is a bit touchy... You must experimen a little. But, let > me know if you figure out something. Anything! > > Vlada I'm happy to state that I learned much more about MIDI and audio the last 14 days than I did in the last couple of years. It's always good to put ones own hands onto the things to get sufficiant understanding of how they work :) This is a really helpfull list, I must say! Thanks to all contributors!! Frank |