From: Abrolag <ab...@us...> - 2010-06-27 22:40:54
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As soon as I have more than a couple of audio files in a session Rosegarden mixes them up. Try to drag a new file onto a track and it actually grabs one of the previous ones, seemingly at random. After much struggling. I managed to get four files loaded and placed where I wanted, but saving and then later re-starting resulted in 4 copies of the first track :( Can't remember the version number (and not at the same computer now) But it was fairly recent (since the version 10 released). I'm now in a position where I can't go back to V 1.7.3 as the distro I'm using these days doesn't support kde/qt 3 -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. |
From: D. M. M. <mic...@ro...> - 2010-06-28 01:09:35
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On Sunday, June 27, 2010, Abrolag wrote: > As soon as I have more than a couple of audio files in a session > Rosegarden mixes them up. Try to drag a new file onto a track and it > actually grabs one of the previous ones, seemingly at random. I tried to repeat some kind of problem with this, and I can't. I'm sure it's happening to you, but we're going to have to work out some more careful way for me to wind up in the same spot. How are you getting the files in there, in as much detail as possible? Are you by chance using the project packager at any stage of the way? Have you had a look at any of the .rg files to see if perhaps they could be hacked back into shape by editing the XML manually? While not a real solution to the root problem, it might allow you to continue working until these issues are finally resolved. -- D. Michael McIntyre |
From: Abrolag <ab...@us...> - 2010-06-28 19:17:21
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On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 21:09:22 -0400 "D. Michael McIntyre" <mic...@ro...> wrote: > On Sunday, June 27, 2010, Abrolag wrote: > > > As soon as I have more than a couple of audio files in a session > > Rosegarden mixes them up. Try to drag a new file onto a track and it > > actually grabs one of the previous ones, seemingly at random. > > I tried to repeat some kind of problem with this, and I can't. I'm sure it's > happening to you, but we're going to have to work out some more careful way > for me to wind up in the same spot. > > How are you getting the files in there, in as much detail as possible? > > Are you by chance using the project packager at any stage of the way? > > Have you had a look at any of the .rg files to see if perhaps they could be > hacked back into shape by editing the XML manually? While not a real solution > to the root problem, it might allow you to continue working until these issues > are finally resolved. I don't use the project packer at all. My way of working (as with everything I do) is to create a directory with an appropriate name then drop absolutely everything connected to a project in there, whether it be MIDI, audio, graphic, text, build notes. In this particular instance the audio is sections of guitar, recorded using timemachine and saved as wavs. I don't directly record live audio into Rosegarden, as I frequently want to edit and/or clean up files first. I simply drag & drop them on to the audio tracks when ready (I'm not aware of any other way to get them there). The first few drops seem OK, but as soon as I start manipulating them, or change my mind and replace a file things start to go haywire and the wrong file gets picked up. Saving and reloading makes it worse. I've had a look at the .rg file and found the block where audio files are identified, but it doesn't seem to make any sense to me. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. |
From: Chris C. <ca...@al...> - 2010-06-28 19:48:13
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On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: > I've had a look at the .rg file and found the block where audio files > are identified, but it doesn't seem to make any sense to me. Can you send me (or the list) an example of an .rg file with such audio mangling in it? Chris |
From: Abrolag <ab...@us...> - 2010-07-05 20:58:56
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On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 20:48:04 +0100 Chris Cannam <ca...@al...> wrote: > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: > > I've had a look at the .rg file and found the block where audio files > > are identified, but it doesn't seem to make any sense to me. > > Can you send me (or the list) an example of an .rg file with such > audio mangling in it? > > > Chris Sorry I'm slow coming back to this. Anyway I think I've found the cause (if not the solution). Quite a long time ago I mentioned that adding something that forced the composition length to be extended made Rosegarden fall silen,t and you had to save and reload the work - well it's a variant of the same problem - I would guess that Michael didn't see it because he never went beyond the default composition size. This piece has a MIDI section that I laid down first in the matrix editor. There are then audio parts. 1 is used at the start only. 2,3,4,5 are repeated. 6 is used once only in the middle. 7 is used only at the end. When I place the last copy of part 5 it extends the composition by 1 bar, causing the silence problem but apparently none other, as the old save and reload seems to work fine. However, when I place part 7 it extends the composition by a further 6 bars. This time save and reload returns strangely. Part one has (sound wise) become identical to part 7. I tried deleting it and dropping a fresh copy on, but instead of loading part 1 it loaded part 7 again. I then, instead of using 'audio1' used 'audio8'. This time trying to drop part 1 file on it resulted in part 2 being loaded! I get the impression that when you delete an audio track you don't actually remove the data itself (or maybe don't remove a pointer to the file) and once things go haywire it's impossible to recover. The only way I could clear everything was to export the MIDI section, then import it to a pristine instance of Rosegarden and start again. The whole project is archived as: http://www.folderol.ukfsn.org/NewDir.tgz Chris, can you let me know when you've snatched this as it's soaking up 26M of webspace :o -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. |
From: Chris C. <ca...@al...> - 2010-07-05 22:19:42
|
On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:58 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: > Chris, can you let me know when you've snatched this as it's soaking up > 26M of webspace :o I've got it now, thanks! I won't have a chance to look at this tonight -- but soon, 'cos I'm very keen to sort this out. Thanks for all the detailed help. Chris |
From: Julie S <msj...@ya...> - 2010-07-05 22:27:09
|
Hello Will, You wrote: > Quite a long time ago I mentioned that adding something > that forced the > composition length to be extended made Rosegarden fall > silen,t and you > had to save and reload the work - well it's a variant of > the same problem Hmmm... i know the auto extend still acts strange. It extend when I don't expect it too and also extends arbitrary amounts. Something is wrong with it. But I did recently other bugs that resulted in RG falling silent when the auto extend feature was invoked. Is RG still falling silent using the latest version in svn? I'll let you and Chris sort out the other audio issues. I'm just curious if there is yet another RG-goes-silent bug under the hood somewhere. Sincerely, Julie S. |
From: Chris C. <ca...@al...> - 2010-07-09 12:35:16
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On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:58 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: > When I place the last copy of part 5 it extends the composition by 1 > bar, causing the silence problem but apparently none other, as the old > save and reload seems to work fine. However, when I place part 7 it > extends the composition by a further 6 bars. This time save and reload > returns strangely. Part one has (sound wise) become identical to part 7. > > I tried deleting it and dropping a fresh copy on, but instead of > loading part 1 it loaded part 7 again. When you "place" and "drop" these clips, where are you doing so _from_? Are you dragging and dropping from the audio file manager, for example? Chris |
From: Abrolag <ab...@us...> - 2010-07-09 18:45:40
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On Fri, 9 Jul 2010 13:34:53 +0100 Chris Cannam <ca...@al...> wrote: > On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:58 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: > > When I place the last copy of part 5 it extends the composition by 1 > > bar, causing the silence problem but apparently none other, as the old > > save and reload seems to work fine. However, when I place part 7 it > > extends the composition by a further 6 bars. This time save and reload > > returns strangely. Part one has (sound wise) become identical to part 7. > > > > I tried deleting it and dropping a fresh copy on, but instead of > > loading part 1 it loaded part 7 again. > > When you "place" and "drop" these clips, where are you doing so _from_? > > Are you dragging and dropping from the audio file manager, for example? > > > Chris I'm dragging them onto Rosegarden audio tracks from a ROX-filer window. I realise now (just yesterday actually) that there is a new 'gotcha' with V10+ I've always put all files for a project in it's own unique directory on my music partition <- note! So, I start of by creating a new .rg file and saving it there, I would then add Zyn. files, jamin etc. all in the same directory. If audio was involved then that would be dropped in there too (possibly having been processed in audacity) before being dragged onto an audio track in RG. V 1.7 etc would then happily drop its own construction files in the same directory. One place I almost never go is my user's home directory, because I never put anything there! It was with some surprise (and annoyance) I found that RG had created a 'rosegarden' directory there and stuffed it full of audio without even so much as an 'ahem'. This is why the archive I sent to doesn't contain those files. I was not expecting anything to be there. I wondered at their absence from the 'normal' place but assumed RG was doing something clever and embedding them in the main file. Whether this has any bearing on the problem I don't know, but I most sincerely hope we are not moving to the world of Windows, where programs dictate to the user where their files will be. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. |
From: Chris C. <ca...@al...> - 2010-07-09 19:34:52
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On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: > It was with some surprise (and annoyance) I found that RG had created a > 'rosegarden' directory there and stuffed it full of audio without even > so much as an 'ahem'. This is why the archive I sent to doesn't contain > those files. I was not expecting anything to be there. I believe the difference is that former versions would refuse to do anything audio-related until you had set an audio file path (which is done through the document properties), whereas the newer versions will default to ~/rosegarden if no audio file path has been set (but you can still set one if you like). One problem with this of course is that now there's no indication that you ever need to set the audio file path, and no way to discover that the option is available, and so it's more likely to remain unset. This whole subject has long been a thorny one. What's the best solution? Chris |
From: david <gn...@ha...> - 2010-07-09 19:49:58
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Chris Cannam wrote: > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: >> It was with some surprise (and annoyance) I found that RG had created a >> 'rosegarden' directory there and stuffed it full of audio without even >> so much as an 'ahem'. This is why the archive I sent to doesn't contain >> those files. I was not expecting anything to be there. > > I believe the difference is that former versions would refuse to do > anything audio-related until you had set an audio file path (which is > done through the document properties), whereas the newer versions will > default to ~/rosegarden if no audio file path has been set (but you > can still set one if you like). > > One problem with this of course is that now there's no indication that > you ever need to set the audio file path, and no way to discover that > the option is available, and so it's more likely to remain unset. > > This whole subject has long been a thorny one. What's the best solution? Not that I've used RG's audio features yet, I think I'd go back to the old way, with maybe one variation. If audio file path isn't set when user first tries to use audio, RG asks them to set the audio file path. Give user a nice little file system navigation button to do it with that defaults to a rosegarden folder user's home directory. After it's set, go on and do whatever audio thing the user is trying to do. -- David gn...@ha... authenticity, honesty, community |
From: Chris C. <ca...@al...> - 2010-07-09 20:21:42
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On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 8:49 PM, david <gn...@ha...> wrote: > old way, with maybe one variation. If audio file path isn't set when > user first tries to use audio, RG asks them to set the audio file path. That is what it did, but you get more interruptions that way (since "tries to use audio" generally means "armed an audio track for record" or "dropped an audio file"). The newer code uses more meaningful names for your audio files, based on the RG filename, and if you have saved the current RG file at least once (so that it has a name to use) it no longer stops and asks you annoying questions when you really just want to record or whatever. I believe that's the motivation (Michael made this change and so might correct me) and if so, it's a very sensible one. That's one of the quite numerous reasons why this isn't a simple problem. Any more off-the-cuff suggestions are welcome though. Chris |
From: david <gn...@ha...> - 2010-07-10 06:24:01
|
Chris Cannam wrote: > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 8:49 PM, david <gn...@ha...> wrote: >> old way, with maybe one variation. If audio file path isn't set when >> user first tries to use audio, RG asks them to set the audio file path. > > That is what it did, but you get more interruptions that way (since > "tries to use audio" generally means "armed an audio track for record" > or "dropped an audio file"). > > The newer code uses more meaningful names for your audio files, based > on the RG filename, and if you have saved the current RG file at least > once (so that it has a name to use) it no longer stops and asks you > annoying questions when you really just want to record or whatever. I > believe that's the motivation (Michael made this change and so might > correct me) and if so, it's a very sensible one. That's one of the > quite numerous reasons why this isn't a simple problem. Any more > off-the-cuff suggestions are welcome though. So maybe require that the RG file be saved before the audio functions are enabled? Could just prompt the user saying, "Project needs to be saved first. Save? YES NO" -- David gn...@ha... authenticity, honesty, community |
From: Abrolag <ab...@us...> - 2010-07-09 20:20:48
|
On Fri, 9 Jul 2010 20:34:44 +0100 Chris Cannam <ca...@al...> wrote: > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: > > It was with some surprise (and annoyance) I found that RG had created a > > 'rosegarden' directory there and stuffed it full of audio without even > > so much as an 'ahem'. This is why the archive I sent to doesn't contain > > those files. I was not expecting anything to be there. > > I believe the difference is that former versions would refuse to do > anything audio-related until you had set an audio file path (which is > done through the document properties), whereas the newer versions will > default to ~/rosegarden if no audio file path has been set (but you > can still set one if you like). > > One problem with this of course is that now there's no indication that > you ever need to set the audio file path, and no way to discover that > the option is available, and so it's more likely to remain unset. > > This whole subject has long been a thorny one. What's the best solution? > > > Chris I would suggest that if no path is set RG always asks for one, but: if an .rg file has been saved from the current project offer that directory for audio as well. otherwise offer the last known directory. if it is the very first run of RG offer the home directory. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. |
From: Chris C. <ca...@al...> - 2010-07-09 20:23:48
|
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: > I would suggest that if no path is set RG always asks for one Asks for one when? When would be least disruptive? (Do you record into RG, or record elsewhere and drop files into RG afterwards?) The assumption here of course is that users who never use audio should never be asked. I'm guessing that nobody strongly disagrees with that. Chris |
From: Abrolag <ab...@us...> - 2010-07-09 20:49:29
|
On Fri, 9 Jul 2010 21:23:40 +0100 Chris Cannam <ca...@al...> wrote: > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: > > I would suggest that if no path is set RG always asks for one > > Asks for one when? The first time you try to do anything audio. > When would be least disruptive? (Do you record into RG, or record > elsewhere and drop files into RG afterwards?) Both :) If dropping a file onto an audio track when there is no previous audio, then at that point. If starting to record audio (again when there is no previous audio), then as soon as the record button for that track is pressed. > The assumption here of course is that users who never use audio should > never be asked. I'm guessing that nobody strongly disagrees with > that. Quite agree with this. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. |
From: Chris C. <ca...@al...> - 2010-07-09 20:53:18
|
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:49 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: > If starting to record audio (again when there is no previous audio), > then as soon as the record button for that track is pressed. You don't have a problem with the fact that you hit Record because you wanted to record, but now it's bothering you with some stupid question when you really want to be just playing the damn guitar? I don't even play the guitar, but that used to bother me. It still does, to a degree, since the new Rosegarden still stops and complains if you haven't ever saved the file before and so it has no name to attach to its audio tracks (though at least the wording of the complaint is helpful now). Chris |
From: david <gn...@ha...> - 2010-07-10 06:29:46
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Chris Cannam wrote: > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:49 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: >> If starting to record audio (again when there is no previous audio), >> then as soon as the record button for that track is pressed. > > You don't have a problem with the fact that you hit Record because you > wanted to record, but now it's bothering you with some stupid question > when you really want to be just playing the damn guitar? > > I don't even play the guitar, but that used to bother me. It still > does, to a degree, since the new Rosegarden still stops and complains > if you haven't ever saved the file before and so it has no name to > attach to its audio tracks (though at least the wording of the > complaint is helpful now). Then maybe you should prompt just to save the RG project at point and create whatever path/folders you need to record your audio. -- David gn...@ha... authenticity, honesty, community |
From: D. M. M. <mic...@ro...> - 2010-07-09 21:01:11
|
On Friday, July 09, 2010, Chris Cannam wrote: > and if you have saved the current RG file at least > once (so that it has a name to use) Under certain conditions (including hitting record with an audio track armed, possibly others) if you haven't yet saved your composition with a proper name, you get interrupted with a save as dialog before recording will commence. This ensures (well, strictly speaking, more like encourages) the audio files can have a meaningful name, and won't all be "[Untitled]" globbed together in one place. As to any changes concerning how the audio path itself is handled, I honestly just don't remember what we did, or what we were thinking at the time. My best guess at a foggy recollection is that somebody complained drag and drop failed if ~/rosegarden didn't exist, so we made sure it existed, and everything kind of followed from there. If we got anything wrong, I'd like users to keep in mind that this thing didn't even run for the first year we worked on it, and for the next year we had to rewrite a lot of horribly mangled things from scratch without necessarily being in a position to go look at the old Rosegarden for comparison. -- D. Michael McIntyre |
From: david <gn...@ha...> - 2010-07-10 06:38:28
|
D. Michael McIntyre wrote: > On Friday, July 09, 2010, Chris Cannam wrote: > >> and if you have saved the current RG file at least >> once (so that it has a name to use) > > Under certain conditions (including hitting record with an audio track armed, > possibly others) if you haven't yet saved your composition with a proper name, > you get interrupted with a save as dialog before recording will commence. > This ensures (well, strictly speaking, more like encourages) the audio files > can have a meaningful name, and won't all be "[Untitled]" globbed together in > one place. All goodnesses! > As to any changes concerning how the audio path itself is handled, I honestly > just don't remember what we did, or what we were thinking at the time. > > My best guess at a foggy recollection is that somebody complained drag and > drop failed if ~/rosegarden didn't exist, so we made sure it existed, and > everything kind of followed from there. Sounds like a point to work on sometime. I still think I'd want it to prompt me for a directory the first time I went to record something in a particular RG project, unless I'd already saved the project; then it could create an audio directory whether I needed it or not. > If we got anything wrong, I'd like users to keep in mind that this thing > didn't even run for the first year we worked on it, and for the next year we > had to rewrite a lot of horribly mangled things from scratch without > necessarily being in a position to go look at the old Rosegarden for > comparison. I don't think anyone's saying anyone got anything wrong. And all of you did an amazing, fine job of the rewrite, too! -- David gn...@ha... authenticity, honesty, community |
From: Abrolag <ab...@us...> - 2010-07-09 21:48:10
|
On Fri, 9 Jul 2010 21:53:11 +0100 Chris Cannam <ca...@al...> wrote: > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:49 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: > > If starting to record audio (again when there is no previous audio), > > then as soon as the record button for that track is pressed. > > You don't have a problem with the fact that you hit Record because you > wanted to record, but now it's bothering you with some stupid question > when you really want to be just playing the damn guitar? > > I don't even play the guitar, but that used to bother me. It still > does, to a degree, since the new Rosegarden still stops and complains > if you haven't ever saved the file before and so it has no name to > attach to its audio tracks (though at least the wording of the > complaint is helpful now). > > > Chris I'd be quite happy with that. It puts control in the hands of the user, and would only be a minor annoyance, as it would only happen at the start of a project - I'm assuming that once set it would remember the location for that specific project and wouldn't mix it up with any others you open. Also, if you're dragging files in, it's a non-issue as the file already exists and you're not breaking your train of thought. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. |
From: Abrolag <ab...@us...> - 2010-08-15 21:51:29
|
I can now say categorically that the problem is a memory allocation issue. The audio tracks have now been integrated and reduced to just two. The first is several bars longer than the MIDI section and the second is another bar or two longer than that. Trying to insert the first track, after having set the audio path correctly (I really wish this was more obvious) resulted in silence. Trying again, but after setting the composition length to way more than necessary gave success. I worked with that for a while adding more MIDI parts, and without thinking about it, reduced the composition length. When I came to add the second audio track, it actually seemed to reload the first one. Scrapping that (without saving) and reloading the composition, I once again extended the length massively. I was then able to correctly load the second audio file, and trim back the overall length. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. |
From: Abrolag <ab...@us...> - 2010-08-16 19:49:20
|
Nope. All gone titsup again :( Reloaded the composition today, and surprise-surprise, although named differently I have two copies of the same audio file, just at slightly different positions. This is getting, really, really frustrating. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. |
From: D. M. M. <mic...@ro...> - 2010-08-16 22:05:02
|
On Monday, August 16, 2010, Abrolag wrote: > This is getting, really, really frustrating. Sorry you're having such a bad time, Will. I keep hoping somebody will jump in and have a look at this. I just don't have time to do more than glance at your findings and shove it aside to possibly deal with later. -- D. Michael McIntyre |
From: Julie S <msj...@ya...> - 2010-08-16 22:49:25
|
Hello Will, I just went back and reviewed your initial "Audio Problem" topic. I stopped reading initially when Chris C offered to look into it. I recently fixed some "sound goes silent" issues when the composition auto extends. I did not look at audio in particular when I made that fix. I don't think I broke anything worse than it was when I initially fixed things, but I couldn't figure out how the composition was determining when and how much to extend the composition. I left well enough alone and solved several of the "sound goes silent" issues. It sounds like we really need to track down the auto extend bug and get the feature to behave properly. I'll volunteer around 8 hours over the next day or two to investigate this issue. If we can get this cleared up, maybe this will solve some of the audio issues you are having. Will, would you be willing to share that sample file you briefly hosted so I could have a look at it as well? Sincerely, Julie S. |