From: Aere G. <Aere@Dvorak-Keyboards.com> - 2013-01-29 17:53:09
|
Rosegarden and Fluidsynth Developers: In working with Fluidsynth problems, the Fluidsynth developers have wondered why I insist on using JACK with Qsynth, rather than just configuring it to use PulseAudio. Yesterday I finally found out why I do this, but what the cause of the problem is, possibly both sets of developers (together) might be able to postulate. Here are the steps of a test you can do to illustrate the problem: 1. Configure Qsynth to use "pulseaudio" instead of "jack". Even doing this can cause hangs if you have more than one engine configured. Best approach is to not restart the engine when it prompts you, instead, terminating Qsynth, and bring it back up after completing the configuration changes. 2. Bring up the newly-re-configured Qsynth, which now uses PulseAudio. If you were using JACK (QjackCtl) before, you may have to reboot before doing it. 3. In a terminal window, cd to a folder having MIDI ('.mid') files, then enter the following statement: pmidi -l On my machine, it produces the following lines referencing the Qsynth ports (I have 2 qsynth engines): 129:0 FLUID Synth (Qsynth1) Synth input port (Qsynth1:0) 130:0 FLUID Synth (Qsynth2) Synth input port (Qsynth2:0) 4. In the terminal window, use the information printed by the prior statement to enter a statement to play a MIDI file. On my machine, I did the following: pmidi -p 129:0 TheCarpenters-MaybeItsYou.mid 5. Notice that it plays, and you can hear the sound. Notice that the indicator light of the engine shows activity. You can terminate it early after hearing that it plays (control-c will stop it). 6. Launch Rosegarden (it doesn't matter if it is the latest version, or the oldest version you have). Answer any welcome message. 7. Return to the terminal window without doing anything in the Rosegarden window (other than answering the welcome message), and re-enter the statement that you used to play the MIDI-file using pmidi. Notice that the indicator-light of the Qsynth engine flashes, showing activity, but also notice that there is no sound. Terminate pmidi using control-c. 8. Terminate Rosegarden, and repeat step 7, noticing the result (no sound) is the same. 9. Terminate Qsynth, noticing (if you have a memory-space monitor running) that the memory used for the soundfonts of both engines is not released. 10. In the terminal window, enter the following statement: pmidi -l You will see that the client and port for the 2nd engine is still there. 11. At this point, the only way to allow Qsynth to produce sound again, is to reboot. If you log-out, and log back in, the memory will be reclaimed, but when you fire-up a new Qsynth, and attempt to play the MIDI-file again, there is still no sound. It appears that bringing-up Rosegarden is the step that causes the problem. If instead, I brought up MusE, there was no problem, and MusE could even use the Qsynth ports for playing. In another test, when I tried to use the Qsynth ports in Rosegarden for playing, Qsynth showed activity, but there was no sound. If you configure Qsynth to use JACK for its audio, you don't encounter this problem. I use Qsynth with Rosegarden all the time. I'm sure I've run into this problem before - probably multiple times. But all I remember of it, is that you have to use jack (the default) with Qsynth. But before we conclude it to be a problem with Qsynth alone, be aware that what started me down this line of testing, is that I fired-up Fluidsynth in a terminal window, using pulseaudio for its audio, and it worked fine with my new MIDI device. But when I tried to use it with Rosegarden, though it saw the Fluidsynth device, and I could map my MIDI playback device to use it, there was no sound. And that thereafter, though my new MIDI device seemed to be sending to it okay, but there was no sound. In this case, eventually error messages started coming out of Fluidsynth, saying it couldn't allocate (something) for each specific note played. -- Sincerely, Aere |
From: D. M. M. <ros...@gm...> - 2013-01-29 20:55:15
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On 01/29/2013 12:52 PM, Aere Greenway wrote: > It appears that bringing-up Rosegarden is the step that causes the > problem. If instead, I brought up MusE, there was no problem, and MusE > could even use the Qsynth ports for playing. I don't have a clue why Rosegarden is causing this and MusE isn't. Upon a superficial and quick comparison, they both appear to work the same way in the case where QSynth is already running, and it's configured to use pulseaudio: they both start with audio support disabled, due to being unable to start jackd, because pulseaudio has control of the hardware. I'm really surprised the FluidSynth developers are taking you to task for using the audio server for musicians, and insist that you use the consumer grade audio server that's mostly good for system notifications, playing video with the sound completely out of sync, and just experiencing shockingly horrible latency all around. Oh well, I can't say I'm paying any attention to Linux audio development outside Rosegarden's own little garden, so for all I know pulseaudio is the new thing and all the cool kids are doing it, and I'm an out of touch old fossil. Either way, we don't have an audio developer on staff anymore. I never was one to begin with, and that hat doesn't fit my head. It's about five sizes too big for my pea sized brain pan, and just rattles around uselessly if I don it, so there's no use. -- D. Michael McIntyre |
From: Aere G. <Aere@Dvorak-Keyboards.com> - 2013-01-29 21:59:46
|
On 01/29/2013 01:55 PM, D. Michael McIntyre wrote: > I don't have a clue why Rosegarden is causing this and MusE isn't. Upon > a superficial and quick comparison, they both appear to work the same > way in the case where QSynth is already running, and it's configured to > use pulseaudio: they both start with audio support disabled, due to > being unable to start jackd, because pulseaudio has control of the hardware. Michael, and all: Perhaps that is a significant clue to the problem. JACK seems to have made great strides lately. Where it used to not co-exist with anything, it now seems to get along with most everything. You can now play Internet videos with sound while JACK (QjackCtl) is running, and can run all sorts of things together with it. On the other hand, Audacity doesn't get-along with it at all. If you look in the QjackCtl "Connections" dialog, in the "Audio" tab, you now see a "PulseAudio JACK Sink" and a "PulseAudio JACK Source" device. And the ubiquitous hangs seem much harder to cause. I had concluded, based on my testing on several desktop computers in my test-bed, that they had finally solved all of the problems, and that JACK nicely gets along with everything. They seem to have even put those fixes in the Long-Term-Support release, 12.04, because it behaves just as well. But then I tried the same test on my Acer Aspire laptop, and my new MIDI device initially trying to use the (PulseAudio) Java Sound synthesizer (with QjackCtl already running), hung it tighter than a drum, and I had to power the machine down. So I guess all is not yet well on the JACK audio front. The significant clue in what you said, was that Rosegarden would fail to start jackd, and would thus start up without audio support. In doing the test, there was no warning about audio support being disabled (that I in the past always used to see in such situations). Where they now co-exist better, it probably succeeded in starting jackd. But perhaps, they don't successfully co-exist in other ways. As you pointed out, running with JACK is much more efficient. Where processor usage was around 75% using PulseAudio, the same piece played using JACK had a processor utilization of around 25%, which is no insignificant difference. To even get it to work without cutting-out on PulseAudio, I had to disable both the Reverb and the Chorus. I can use them when I use JACK in place of PulseAudio. By the way, most of my testing was done on an Intel Celeron CPU 2.53 GHz desktop machine, running Lubuntu 12.10. -- Sincerely, Aere |
From: Aere G. <Aere@Dvorak-Keyboards.com> - 2013-02-01 04:13:52
|
On 01/29/2013 02:59 PM, Aere Greenway wrote: > On 01/29/2013 01:55 PM, D. Michael McIntyre wrote: >> I don't have a clue why Rosegarden is causing this and MusE isn't. Upon >> a superficial and quick comparison, they both appear to work the same >> way in the case where QSynth is already running, and it's configured to >> use pulseaudio: they both start with audio support disabled, due to >> being unable to start jackd, because pulseaudio has control of the >> hardware. > Michael, and all: > > Perhaps that is a significant clue to the problem. > > JACK seems to have made great strides lately. Where it used to not > co-exist with anything, it now seems to get along with most everything. > > You can now play Internet videos with sound while JACK (QjackCtl) is > running, and can run all sorts of things together with it. On the > other hand, Audacity doesn't get-along with it at all. > > If you look in the QjackCtl "Connections" dialog, in the "Audio" tab, > you now see a "PulseAudio JACK Sink" and a "PulseAudio JACK Source" > device. And the ubiquitous hangs seem much harder to cause. > > I had concluded, based on my testing on several desktop computers in > my test-bed, that they had finally solved all of the problems, and > that JACK nicely gets along with everything. They seem to have even > put those fixes in the Long-Term-Support release, 12.04, because it > behaves just as well. > > But then I tried the same test on my Acer Aspire laptop, and my new > MIDI device initially trying to use the (PulseAudio) Java Sound > synthesizer (with QjackCtl already running), hung it tighter than a > drum, and I had to power the machine down. > > So I guess all is not yet well on the JACK audio front. > > The significant clue in what you said, was that Rosegarden would fail > to start jackd, and would thus start up without audio support. > > In doing the test, there was no warning about audio support being > disabled (that I in the past always used to see in such situations). > Where they now co-exist better, it probably succeeded in starting > jackd. But perhaps, they don't successfully co-exist in other ways. > > As you pointed out, running with JACK is much more efficient. Where > processor usage was around 75% using PulseAudio, the same piece played > using JACK had a processor utilization of around 25%, which is no > insignificant difference. To even get it to work without cutting-out > on PulseAudio, I had to disable both the Reverb and the Chorus. I can > use them when I use JACK in place of PulseAudio. > > By the way, most of my testing was done on an Intel Celeron CPU 2.53 > GHz desktop machine, running Lubuntu 12.10. > All: The information in the next-to-last paragraph above (about the processor utilization using PulseAudio and JACK) was incorrect. The numbers I remembered were correct, but the numbers were not from the same piece. When I revisited this test, using the same piece, the processor utilization was 75% (for PulseAudio), and 55% (for JACK). The difference is still significant, but not as great as I formerly reported. -- Sincerely, Aere |
From: Holger M. <ho...@ma...> - 2013-01-30 07:34:01
|
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > Rosegarden and Fluidsynth Developers: > > In working with Fluidsynth problems, the Fluidsynth developers have > wondered why I insist on using JACK with Qsynth, rather than just > configuring it to use PulseAudio. Yesterday I finally found out why I > do this, but what the cause of the problem is, possibly both sets of > developers (together) might be able to postulate. > > Here are the steps of a test you can do to illustrate the problem: > > 1. Configure Qsynth to use "pulseaudio" instead of "jack". Even doing > this can cause hangs if you have more than one engine configured. Best > approach is to not restart the engine when it prompts you, instead, > terminating Qsynth, and bring it back up after completing the > configuration changes. Using Pulse and JACK works here by disabling Pulseaudio clients to start it (autospawn = no in /etc/pulse/client.conf) and starting Pulseaudio in QjackCtl. See http://www.marzen.de/Holger/pulseaudio_and_jack/ Fluidsynth is available as a DSSI module to be used in Rosegarden. No problems at all AND lower latencies. |
From: Aere G. <Aere@Dvorak-Keyboards.com> - 2013-01-31 02:36:41
|
On 01/30/2013 12:33 AM, Holger Marzen wrote: > On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > >> Rosegarden and Fluidsynth Developers: >> >> In working with Fluidsynth problems, the Fluidsynth developers have >> wondered why I insist on using JACK with Qsynth, rather than just >> configuring it to use PulseAudio. Yesterday I finally found out why I >> do this, but what the cause of the problem is, possibly both sets of >> developers (together) might be able to postulate. >> >> Here are the steps of a test you can do to illustrate the problem: >> >> 1. Configure Qsynth to use "pulseaudio" instead of "jack". Even doing >> this can cause hangs if you have more than one engine configured. Best >> approach is to not restart the engine when it prompts you, instead, >> terminating Qsynth, and bring it back up after completing the >> configuration changes. > Using Pulse and JACK works here by disabling Pulseaudio clients to start > it (autospawn = no in /etc/pulse/client.conf) and starting Pulseaudio in > QjackCtl. See http://www.marzen.de/Holger/pulseaudio_and_jack/ > > Fluidsynth is available as a DSSI module to be used in Rosegarden. No > problems at all AND lower latencies. > Holger: Thank you very much for the information. It could help me a lot. I will save it for reference. I have tested the Fluidsynth DSSI before. It seemed to work fine, but it seemed to me there was a lot of per-track special setup I had to do in order to use it. Qsynth seems to work better for me, but perhaps it's because I have vanquished one set of demons, and have not worked long enough to defeat the other set. -- Sincerely, Aere |
From: Holger M. <ho...@ma...> - 2013-01-31 08:38:16
|
On Wed, 30 Jan 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > On 01/30/2013 12:33 AM, Holger Marzen wrote: > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > > > > > Rosegarden and Fluidsynth Developers: > > > > > > In working with Fluidsynth problems, the Fluidsynth developers have > > > wondered why I insist on using JACK with Qsynth, rather than just > > > configuring it to use PulseAudio. Yesterday I finally found out why I > > > do this, but what the cause of the problem is, possibly both sets of > > > developers (together) might be able to postulate. > > > > > > Here are the steps of a test you can do to illustrate the problem: > > > > > > 1. Configure Qsynth to use "pulseaudio" instead of "jack". Even doing > > > this can cause hangs if you have more than one engine configured. Best > > > approach is to not restart the engine when it prompts you, instead, > > > terminating Qsynth, and bring it back up after completing the > > > configuration changes. > > Using Pulse and JACK works here by disabling Pulseaudio clients to start > > it (autospawn = no in /etc/pulse/client.conf) and starting Pulseaudio in > > QjackCtl. See http://www.marzen.de/Holger/pulseaudio_and_jack/ > > > > Fluidsynth is available as a DSSI module to be used in Rosegarden. No > > problems at all AND lower latencies. > > > Holger: > > Thank you very much for the information. It could help me a lot. I will save > it for reference. > > I have tested the Fluidsynth DSSI before. It seemed to work fine, but it > seemed to me there was a lot of per-track special setup I had to do in order > to use it. Qsynth seems to work better for me, but perhaps it's because I > have vanquished one set of demons, and have not worked long enough to defeat > the other set. I use Fluidsynth-DSSI because *everything* important is stored when Rosegarden writes its .rg-file. Different soundfonts, different instruments... no problem. I use separate instances of Fluidsynth-DSSI for bass drum, snare, left tom and so on. Specially for drum and bass sounds you won't notice any latency or jitter. Rosegarden and DSSI-plugins (Fluidsynth-DSSI, Hexter, Whysynth) is a very good combination when you need exact timings. If you have more than 15 instruments/instances then you have to recompile Fluidsynth-DSSI and change #define FSD_CHANNEL_COUNT 25 in fluidsynth-dssi.h 24 because Rosegarden allows 24 synth plugin instruments and "plus 1" because of a strange initialization race condition. If FSD_CHANNEL_COUNT is set to N then the Nth instrument isn't restored when loading the .rg-file. Best regards Holger |
From: Aere G. <Aere@Dvorak-Keyboards.com> - 2013-01-31 17:16:04
|
On 01/31/2013 01:38 AM, Holger Marzen wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > >> On 01/30/2013 12:33 AM, Holger Marzen wrote: >>> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: >>> >>>> Rosegarden and Fluidsynth Developers: >>>> >>>> In working with Fluidsynth problems, the Fluidsynth developers have >>>> wondered why I insist on using JACK with Qsynth, rather than just >>>> configuring it to use PulseAudio. Yesterday I finally found out why I >>>> do this, but what the cause of the problem is, possibly both sets of >>>> developers (together) might be able to postulate. >>>> >>>> Here are the steps of a test you can do to illustrate the problem: >>>> >>>> 1. Configure Qsynth to use "pulseaudio" instead of "jack". Even doing >>>> this can cause hangs if you have more than one engine configured. Best >>>> approach is to not restart the engine when it prompts you, instead, >>>> terminating Qsynth, and bring it back up after completing the >>>> configuration changes. >>> Using Pulse and JACK works here by disabling Pulseaudio clients to start >>> it (autospawn = no in /etc/pulse/client.conf) and starting Pulseaudio in >>> QjackCtl. See http://www.marzen.de/Holger/pulseaudio_and_jack/ >>> >>> Fluidsynth is available as a DSSI module to be used in Rosegarden. No >>> problems at all AND lower latencies. >>> >> Holger: >> >> Thank you very much for the information. It could help me a lot. I will save >> it for reference. >> >> I have tested the Fluidsynth DSSI before. It seemed to work fine, but it >> seemed to me there was a lot of per-track special setup I had to do in order >> to use it. Qsynth seems to work better for me, but perhaps it's because I >> have vanquished one set of demons, and have not worked long enough to defeat >> the other set. > I use Fluidsynth-DSSI because *everything* important is stored when > Rosegarden writes its .rg-file. Different soundfonts, different > instruments... no problem. I use separate instances of Fluidsynth-DSSI > for bass drum, snare, left tom and so on. > > Specially for drum and bass sounds you won't notice any latency or > jitter. Rosegarden and DSSI-plugins (Fluidsynth-DSSI, Hexter, Whysynth) > is a very good combination when you need exact timings. > > If you have more than 15 instruments/instances then you have to > recompile Fluidsynth-DSSI and change > #define FSD_CHANNEL_COUNT 25 > in fluidsynth-dssi.h > > 24 because Rosegarden allows 24 synth plugin instruments and "plus 1" > because of a strange initialization race condition. If FSD_CHANNEL_COUNT > is set to N then the Nth instrument isn't restored when loading the > .rg-file. > > Best regards > Holger > Holger: Thank you once again for some very useful information. The "different soundfonts" aspect of it especially caught my attention. I have been dealing with that by having two Qsynth 'engines', which in effect, supplies two separate synhesizers, each with 16 channels, and (in my case) using different soundfonts. But that only gives you two soundfonts. I have used three Qsynth 'engines' successfully. I think I will re-visit using the Fluidsynth-DSSI, if only as another tool in creating music. It would be more useful to me if there were a way of firing up a collection of DSSI instruments, each with their own configuration restored (and saved), that I could access using the ALSA sequencer interface. -- Sincerely, Aere |
From: D. M. M. <ros...@gm...> - 2013-01-31 20:24:37
|
On 01/31/2013 12:15 PM, Aere Greenway wrote: > It would be more useful to me if there were a way of firing up a > collection of DSSI instruments, each with their own configuration > restored (and saved), that I could access using the ALSA sequencer > interface. When I think about it at some length, I think you and I are both probably just caught up in a more traditional MIDI mindset. You could almost use one instance of Rosegarden as a plugin rack and talk to it with another instance of Rosegarden, but that seems really silly, doesn't it? The reasons why it probably wouldn't work are a lot of the same reasons why it would be challenging to write a synth plugin rack generally. How do you talk to it from outside when it has such a wildly and infinitely variable configuration? Rosegarden's device definitions would need to be updated to be specific to each particular permutation of some particular combination of plugins, for each and every permutation you wanted to use. There would need to be some way in place for Rosegarden (or any other sequencer MIDI emitter) to get in deep inside whatever was going on with that rack on an intimate level. Just doing the plugins inside Rosegarden starts to make vastly more sense when you think about the mechanics of making it all fit together using MIDI as the bridge. I think it's just a mindset thing, but I do sympathize with where you're coming from. I've never really used synth plugins for much of anything other than demonstration purposes myself. I'm not very comfortable working that way, as opposed to the familiar and traditional way. It probably is the way to go though. Holger has a very good point; especially concerning latency. But hey, I just woke up and I'm still three quarters asleep, so I could be babbling. -- D. Michael McIntyre |
From: Aere G. <Aere@Dvorak-Keyboards.com> - 2013-01-31 23:57:06
|
On 01/31/2013 01:24 PM, D. Michael McIntyre wrote: > On 01/31/2013 12:15 PM, Aere Greenway wrote: > >> It would be more useful to me if there were a way of firing up a >> collection of DSSI instruments, each with their own configuration >> restored (and saved), that I could access using the ALSA sequencer >> interface. > When I think about it at some length, I think you and I are both > probably just caught up in a more traditional MIDI mindset. > > You could almost use one instance of Rosegarden as a plugin rack and > talk to it with another instance of Rosegarden, but that seems really > silly, doesn't it? > > The reasons why it probably wouldn't work are a lot of the same reasons > why it would be challenging to write a synth plugin rack generally. How > do you talk to it from outside when it has such a wildly and infinitely > variable configuration? Rosegarden's device definitions would need to > be updated to be specific to each particular permutation of some > particular combination of plugins, for each and every permutation you > wanted to use. There would need to be some way in place for Rosegarden > (or any other sequencer MIDI emitter) to get in deep inside whatever was > going on with that rack on an intimate level. > > Just doing the plugins inside Rosegarden starts to make vastly more > sense when you think about the mechanics of making it all fit together > using MIDI as the bridge. > > I think it's just a mindset thing, but I do sympathize with where you're > coming from. I've never really used synth plugins for much of anything > other than demonstration purposes myself. I'm not very comfortable > working that way, as opposed to the familiar and traditional way. > > It probably is the way to go though. Holger has a very good point; > especially concerning latency. > > But hey, I just woke up and I'm still three quarters asleep, so I could > be babbling. Michael, and all: Thank you for your time brainstorming and coming up with ideas on this. After sending my last e-mail, I searched around a bit, and found a software package called "ghostess". I tried it with the following statement (executed in a terminal window), which created a sort of custom synthesizer, having two MIDI channels (1, and 2), each with an instance of the Fluidsynth DSSI. It creates a GUI with a single button for each channel (that allows you to activate the DSSI plug-in's editor), which let me load a different soundfont in the two instances, testing their sounds: ghostess -2 /usr/lib/dssi/fluidsynth-dssi.so My MIDI device was able to communicate with it, and it had low latency. It could save its configuration. It has a lot of command-line options I didn't delve into very deeply. I will experiment more with it. It's author(s) said it wasn't a polished product, but a quick hack. But it seemed to work well in the hour I played with it. There is a similar package (at least, the documentation for using it seems similar), called jack-dssi-host. I haven't tried that one yet, but ghostess seemed to work for what I was looking for. -- Sincerely, Aere |
From: Aere G. <Aere@Dvorak-Keyboards.com> - 2013-02-01 04:55:34
|
On 01/30/2013 12:33 AM, Holger Marzen wrote: > On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > >> Rosegarden and Fluidsynth Developers: >> >> In working with Fluidsynth problems, the Fluidsynth developers have >> wondered why I insist on using JACK with Qsynth, rather than just >> configuring it to use PulseAudio. Yesterday I finally found out why I >> do this, but what the cause of the problem is, possibly both sets of >> developers (together) might be able to postulate. >> >> Here are the steps of a test you can do to illustrate the problem: >> >> 1. Configure Qsynth to use "pulseaudio" instead of "jack". Even doing >> this can cause hangs if you have more than one engine configured. Best >> approach is to not restart the engine when it prompts you, instead, >> terminating Qsynth, and bring it back up after completing the >> configuration changes. > Using Pulse and JACK works here by disabling Pulseaudio clients to start > it (autospawn = no in /etc/pulse/client.conf) and starting Pulseaudio in > QjackCtl. See http://www.marzen.de/Holger/pulseaudio_and_jack/ > > Fluidsynth is available as a DSSI module to be used in Rosegarden. No > problems at all AND lower latencies. > Holger: Thanks to your information, I was able to make my Soundblaster Live emu10k1, the Java Sound (Gervill) synthesizer, and Qsynth all co-exist nicely using JACK (QjackCtl). Also, I now don't have to have my music player set properly to use JACK, or to use PulseAudio - it plays with either one. I also have probably eliminated the hangs (time will tell). The thing that made the difference was that in the mixer (pavucontrol in the case of Lubuntu), I had to set the PulseAudio JACK Sink as the fallback (primary) sound card, rather than the Soundblaster Live. I didn't need to manually change any system configuration files to make this work (so far). The only thing that doesn't work together with JACK is the Flashplayer (for YouTube Videos). I have to terminate QjackCtl to play one of those and have sound. Thanks again for your helpful information. -- Sincerely, Aere |
From: Holger M. <ho...@ma...> - 2013-02-01 08:42:38
|
On Thu, 31 Jan 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > The only thing that doesn't work together with JACK is the Flashplayer (for > YouTube Videos). I have to terminate QjackCtl to play one of those and have > sound. Hi Aere, AFAIK the Flashplayer works as an ALSA client. So this should be covered by the redirection in /etc/asound.conf as described in http://www.marzen.de/Holger/pulseaudio_and_jack/ under 2.) I can for example play a song in the browser with a flash based audio player and record it with audacity: http://www.marzen.de/tmp/audacity+jack.png So ALSA clients use JACK via redirection in /etc/asound.conf, Pulse clients use JACK via definitions in /etc/pulse/default.pa, JACK clients use ... ok, that's simple now :) Regards Holger |
From: Aere G. <Aere@Dvorak-Keyboards.com> - 2013-02-01 16:36:50
|
On 02/01/2013 01:42 AM, Holger Marzen wrote: > On Thu, 31 Jan 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > >> The only thing that doesn't work together with JACK is the Flashplayer (for >> YouTube Videos). I have to terminate QjackCtl to play one of those and have >> sound. > Hi Aere, > > AFAIK the Flashplayer works as an ALSA client. So this should be covered > by the redirection in /etc/asound.conf as described in > http://www.marzen.de/Holger/pulseaudio_and_jack/ > under 2.) > > I can for example play a song in the browser with a flash based audio > player and record it with audacity: > http://www.marzen.de/tmp/audacity+jack.png > > So ALSA clients use JACK via redirection in /etc/asound.conf, > Pulse clients use JACK via definitions in /etc/pulse/default.pa, > JACK clients use ... ok, that's simple now :) > > Regards > Holger > Holger: Regarding the ALSA portion of your URL (below): 2.) In /etc/asound.conf (system wide) or ~/.asoundrc we redirect ALSA-clients to JACK: pcm.!default { type plug slave.pcm "jack" } pcm.jack { type jack playback_ports { 0 system:playback_1 1 system:playback_2 } capture_ports { 0 system:capture_1 1 system:capture_2 } } On my system, there is no file in either location. Also, though the file ends in '.conf', it looks like C++ code. Creating the file "~/.asoundrc" with the above contents, had no effect on my system, even after rebooting (though logoff/logon might have been enough). Is it something I need to compile, and put the object file somewhere? Since there was no file in either location, perhaps it's a difference in using Lubuntu (LXDE). I have all the other 'flavors' of Ubuntu that I can test it on. What Linux distribution do you use? -- Sincerely, Aere |
From: Holger M. <ho...@ma...> - 2013-02-01 16:59:47
|
On Fri, 1 Feb 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > On 02/01/2013 01:42 AM, Holger Marzen wrote: > > On Thu, 31 Jan 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > > > > > The only thing that doesn't work together with JACK is the Flashplayer > > > (for > > > YouTube Videos). I have to terminate QjackCtl to play one of those and > > > have > > > sound. > > Hi Aere, > > > > AFAIK the Flashplayer works as an ALSA client. So this should be covered > > by the redirection in /etc/asound.conf as described in > > http://www.marzen.de/Holger/pulseaudio_and_jack/ > > under 2.) > > > > I can for example play a song in the browser with a flash based audio > > player and record it with audacity: > > http://www.marzen.de/tmp/audacity+jack.png > > > > So ALSA clients use JACK via redirection in /etc/asound.conf, > > Pulse clients use JACK via definitions in /etc/pulse/default.pa, > > JACK clients use ... ok, that's simple now :) > > > > Regards > > Holger > > > Holger: > > Regarding the ALSA portion of your URL (below): > > 2.) In /etc/asound.conf (system wide) or ~/.asoundrc we redirect > ALSA-clients to JACK: > > pcm.!default { > type plug > slave.pcm "jack" > } > > pcm.jack { > type jack > playback_ports { > 0 system:playback_1 > 1 system:playback_2 > } > capture_ports { > 0 system:capture_1 > 1 system:capture_2 > } > } > > > On my system, there is no file in either location. Also, though the file ends That's fine, it's usually not at all needed for standard ALSA operation. > in '.conf', it looks like C++ > code. I didn't invent the syntax :) > Creating the file "~/.asoundrc" with the above contents, had no effect on my > system, even after rebooting (though logoff/logon might have been enough). Neither is needed. Just a restart of the application. > Is it something I need to compile, and put the object file somewhere? > > Since there was no file in either location, perhaps it's a difference in using > Lubuntu (LXDE). Then your browser/flash might use Pulseaudio. It's becoming popular. Recent Skype versions need it to function correctly, they don't use the asound.conf magic either. Browser audio is becoming a big piece of magic. You never know if it uses some HTML5-mechanisms or a plugin. > I have all the other 'flavors' of Ubuntu that I can test it on. What Linux > distribution do you use? Xubuntu 12.04 LTS. I start qjackctl automatically with my graphical session, that starts Pulseaudio, and I have the above /etc/asound.conf. Best Regards Holger |
From: Aere G. <Aere@Dvorak-Keyboards.com> - 2013-02-01 23:07:29
|
On 02/01/2013 09:59 AM, Holger Marzen wrote: > On Fri, 1 Feb 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > >> On 02/01/2013 01:42 AM, Holger Marzen wrote: >>> On Thu, 31 Jan 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: >>> >>>> The only thing that doesn't work together with JACK is the Flashplayer >>>> (for >>>> YouTube Videos). I have to terminate QjackCtl to play one of those and >>>> have >>>> sound. >>> Hi Aere, >>> >>> AFAIK the Flashplayer works as an ALSA client. So this should be covered >>> by the redirection in /etc/asound.conf as described in >>> http://www.marzen.de/Holger/pulseaudio_and_jack/ >>> under 2.) >>> >>> I can for example play a song in the browser with a flash based audio >>> player and record it with audacity: >>> http://www.marzen.de/tmp/audacity+jack.png >>> >>> So ALSA clients use JACK via redirection in /etc/asound.conf, >>> Pulse clients use JACK via definitions in /etc/pulse/default.pa, >>> JACK clients use ... ok, that's simple now :) >>> >>> Regards >>> Holger >>> >> Holger: >> >> Regarding the ALSA portion of your URL (below): >> >> 2.) In /etc/asound.conf (system wide) or ~/.asoundrc we redirect >> ALSA-clients to JACK: >> >> pcm.!default { >> type plug >> slave.pcm "jack" >> } >> >> pcm.jack { >> type jack >> playback_ports { >> 0 system:playback_1 >> 1 system:playback_2 >> } >> capture_ports { >> 0 system:capture_1 >> 1 system:capture_2 >> } >> } >> >> >> On my system, there is no file in either location. Also, though the file ends > That's fine, it's usually not at all needed for standard ALSA operation. > >> in '.conf', it looks like C++ >> code. > I didn't invent the syntax :) > >> Creating the file "~/.asoundrc" with the above contents, had no effect on my >> system, even after rebooting (though logoff/logon might have been enough). > Neither is needed. Just a restart of the application. > >> Is it something I need to compile, and put the object file somewhere? >> >> Since there was no file in either location, perhaps it's a difference in using >> Lubuntu (LXDE). > Then your browser/flash might use Pulseaudio. It's becoming popular. > Recent Skype versions need it to function correctly, they don't use the > asound.conf magic either. > > Browser audio is becoming a big piece of magic. You never know if it > uses some HTML5-mechanisms or a plugin. > >> I have all the other 'flavors' of Ubuntu that I can test it on. What Linux >> distribution do you use? > Xubuntu 12.04 LTS. > > I start qjackctl automatically with my graphical session, that starts > Pulseaudio, and I have the above /etc/asound.conf. > > Best Regards > Holger > Holger: Thank you so very much for your excellent information. I now have JACK successfully co-existing with everything on the following systems in my test-bed: Lubuntu 12.10 Ubuntu-Studio 12.04 Ubuntu 12.04 Kubuntu 12.10 I will gradually convert the rest of my machines. All tests with my new MIDI device worked well too, in that environment. It's nice being able to choose between all of the available devices without having to worry about starting or terminating qjackctl. I'm not sure why YouTube videos now work on Lubuntu 12.10. The only thing I changed was to have qjackctl automatically started on login. That is something you mentioned, so it could have made the difference. Regarding that, on Kubuntu 12.10, with qjackctl auto-started, I don't here the KDE login-sound, at least, I don't hear it until I take-down qjackctl at then end, then it plays. -- Sincerely, Aere |
From: Holger M. <ho...@ma...> - 2013-02-02 07:51:37
|
On Fri, 1 Feb 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > I'm not sure why YouTube videos now work on Lubuntu 12.10. The only thing I > changed was to have qjackctl automatically started on login. That is > something you mentioned, so it could have made the difference. Hi Aere, this could well be the reason. The ALSA-redirection to JACK in /etc/asound.conf needs a running jackd. This redirection won't start jack if it's not already running. > Regarding that, on Kubuntu 12.10, with qjackctl auto-started, I don't here the > KDE login-sound, at least, I don't hear it until I take-down qjackctl at then > end, then it plays. KDE4 has another piece of audio magic called Phonon. I guess you can configure it to use ALSA or Pulseaudio as its backend, then everything should be fine. But I don't use KDE4 so I can't be of much help. Maybe you can even uninstall Phonon but I am afraid then your packet management will uninstall the rest of KDE4 as well. Regards Holger |
From: <she...@gm...> - 2013-02-01 23:18:13
|
I've found this conversation to be extremely interesting and helpful. Perhaps it could be dumped onto to the Rosegarden wiki? I've only used Rosegarden sporadically recently (for testing builds etc) and am constantly depressed when I try to get noise out of it. And even more depressed when I try to get jack to work. I was not aware of the respawning of pulseaudio and really not interested enough to work through all the guff to get it working again. Cheers Shelagh On 2 February 2013 10:07, Aere Greenway <Ae...@dv...> wrote: > On 02/01/2013 09:59 AM, Holger Marzen wrote: > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > > > >> On 02/01/2013 01:42 AM, Holger Marzen wrote: > >>> On Thu, 31 Jan 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > >>> > >>>> The only thing that doesn't work together with JACK is the Flashplayer > >>>> (for > >>>> YouTube Videos). I have to terminate QjackCtl to play one of those > and > >>>> have > >>>> sound. > >>> Hi Aere, > >>> > >>> AFAIK the Flashplayer works as an ALSA client. So this should be > covered > >>> by the redirection in /etc/asound.conf as described in > >>> http://www.marzen.de/Holger/pulseaudio_and_jack/ > >>> under 2.) > >>> > >>> I can for example play a song in the browser with a flash based audio > >>> player and record it with audacity: > >>> http://www.marzen.de/tmp/audacity+jack.png > >>> > >>> So ALSA clients use JACK via redirection in /etc/asound.conf, > >>> Pulse clients use JACK via definitions in /etc/pulse/default.pa, > >>> JACK clients use ... ok, that's simple now :) > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> Holger > >>> > >> Holger: > >> > >> Regarding the ALSA portion of your URL (below): > >> > >> 2.) In /etc/asound.conf (system wide) or ~/.asoundrc we redirect > >> ALSA-clients to JACK: > >> > >> pcm.!default { > >> type plug > >> slave.pcm "jack" > >> } > >> > >> pcm.jack { > >> type jack > >> playback_ports { > >> 0 system:playback_1 > >> 1 system:playback_2 > >> } > >> capture_ports { > >> 0 system:capture_1 > >> 1 system:capture_2 > >> } > >> } > >> > >> > >> On my system, there is no file in either location. Also, though the > file ends > > That's fine, it's usually not at all needed for standard ALSA operation. > > > >> in '.conf', it looks like C++ > >> code. > > I didn't invent the syntax :) > > > >> Creating the file "~/.asoundrc" with the above contents, had no effect > on my > >> system, even after rebooting (though logoff/logon might have been > enough). > > Neither is needed. Just a restart of the application. > > > >> Is it something I need to compile, and put the object file somewhere? > >> > >> Since there was no file in either location, perhaps it's a difference > in using > >> Lubuntu (LXDE). > > Then your browser/flash might use Pulseaudio. It's becoming popular. > > Recent Skype versions need it to function correctly, they don't use the > > asound.conf magic either. > > > > Browser audio is becoming a big piece of magic. You never know if it > > uses some HTML5-mechanisms or a plugin. > > > >> I have all the other 'flavors' of Ubuntu that I can test it on. What > Linux > >> distribution do you use? > > Xubuntu 12.04 LTS. > > > > I start qjackctl automatically with my graphical session, that starts > > Pulseaudio, and I have the above /etc/asound.conf. > > > > Best Regards > > Holger > > > Holger: > > Thank you so very much for your excellent information. > > I now have JACK successfully co-existing with everything on the > following systems in my test-bed: > > Lubuntu 12.10 > Ubuntu-Studio 12.04 > Ubuntu 12.04 > Kubuntu 12.10 > > I will gradually convert the rest of my machines. All tests with my new > MIDI device worked well too, in that environment. It's nice being able > to choose between all of the available devices without having to worry > about starting or terminating qjackctl. > > I'm not sure why YouTube videos now work on Lubuntu 12.10. The only > thing I changed was to have qjackctl automatically started on login. > That is something you mentioned, so it could have made the difference. > > Regarding that, on Kubuntu 12.10, with qjackctl auto-started, I don't > here the KDE login-sound, at least, I don't hear it until I take-down > qjackctl at then end, then it plays. > > -- > Sincerely, > Aere > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. > Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics > Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan > _______________________________________________ > Rosegarden-devel mailing list > Ros...@li... - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-devel > |
From: Aere G. <Aere@Dvorak-Keyboards.com> - 2013-02-02 01:44:48
|
On 02/01/2013 04:17 PM, she...@gm... wrote: > I've found this conversation to be extremely interesting and helpful. > Perhaps it could be dumped onto to the Rosegarden wiki? > > I've only used Rosegarden sporadically recently (for testing builds > etc) and am constantly depressed when I try to get noise out of it. > And even more depressed when I try to get jack to work. I was not > aware of the respawning of pulseaudio and really not interested enough > to work through all the guff to get it working again. All: I have actually created web-pages with numerous screen-shots, telling people how to set this up on their machines. It is for a web-site supporting my new MIDI device, but with minor changes, it could easily become part of a Rosegarden tutorial on the Rosegarden website. If it sounds like something useful for Rosegarden, I would be happy to make the modifications to make it Rosegarden-specific, and contribute it. -- Sincerely, Aere |
From: Aere G. <Aere@Dvorak-Keyboards.com> - 2013-02-02 05:16:00
|
On 02/01/2013 04:07 PM, Aere Greenway wrote: > On 02/01/2013 09:59 AM, Holger Marzen wrote: >> On Fri, 1 Feb 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: >> >>> On 02/01/2013 01:42 AM, Holger Marzen wrote: >>>> On Thu, 31 Jan 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: >>>> >>>>> The only thing that doesn't work together with JACK is the Flashplayer >>>>> (for >>>>> YouTube Videos). I have to terminate QjackCtl to play one of those and >>>>> have >>>>> sound. >>>> Hi Aere, >>>> >>>> AFAIK the Flashplayer works as an ALSA client. So this should be covered >>>> by the redirection in /etc/asound.conf as described in >>>> http://www.marzen.de/Holger/pulseaudio_and_jack/ >>>> under 2.) >>>> >>>> I can for example play a song in the browser with a flash based audio >>>> player and record it with audacity: >>>> http://www.marzen.de/tmp/audacity+jack.png >>>> >>>> So ALSA clients use JACK via redirection in /etc/asound.conf, >>>> Pulse clients use JACK via definitions in /etc/pulse/default.pa, >>>> JACK clients use ... ok, that's simple now :) >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Holger >>>> >>> Holger: >>> >>> Regarding the ALSA portion of your URL (below): >>> >>> 2.) In /etc/asound.conf (system wide) or ~/.asoundrc we redirect >>> ALSA-clients to JACK: >>> >>> pcm.!default { >>> type plug >>> slave.pcm "jack" >>> } >>> >>> pcm.jack { >>> type jack >>> playback_ports { >>> 0 system:playback_1 >>> 1 system:playback_2 >>> } >>> capture_ports { >>> 0 system:capture_1 >>> 1 system:capture_2 >>> } >>> } >>> >>> >>> On my system, there is no file in either location. Also, though the file ends >> That's fine, it's usually not at all needed for standard ALSA operation. >> >>> in '.conf', it looks like C++ >>> code. >> I didn't invent the syntax :) >> >>> Creating the file "~/.asoundrc" with the above contents, had no effect on my >>> system, even after rebooting (though logoff/logon might have been enough). >> Neither is needed. Just a restart of the application. >> >>> Is it something I need to compile, and put the object file somewhere? >>> >>> Since there was no file in either location, perhaps it's a difference in using >>> Lubuntu (LXDE). >> Then your browser/flash might use Pulseaudio. It's becoming popular. >> Recent Skype versions need it to function correctly, they don't use the >> asound.conf magic either. >> >> Browser audio is becoming a big piece of magic. You never know if it >> uses some HTML5-mechanisms or a plugin. >> >>> I have all the other 'flavors' of Ubuntu that I can test it on. What Linux >>> distribution do you use? >> Xubuntu 12.04 LTS. >> >> I start qjackctl automatically with my graphical session, that starts >> Pulseaudio, and I have the above /etc/asound.conf. >> >> Best Regards >> Holger >> > Holger: > > Thank you so very much for your excellent information. > > I now have JACK successfully co-existing with everything on the > following systems in my test-bed: > > Lubuntu 12.10 > Ubuntu-Studio 12.04 > Ubuntu 12.04 > Kubuntu 12.10 > > I will gradually convert the rest of my machines. All tests with my new > MIDI device worked well too, in that environment. It's nice being able > to choose between all of the available devices without having to worry > about starting or terminating qjackctl. > > I'm not sure why YouTube videos now work on Lubuntu 12.10. The only > thing I changed was to have qjackctl automatically started on login. > That is something you mentioned, so it could have made the difference. > > Regarding that, on Kubuntu 12.10, with qjackctl auto-started, I don't > here the KDE login-sound, at least, I don't hear it until I take-down > qjackctl at then end, then it plays. > All: Hopefully this the last entry in this long saga. It ends on a somewhat sombre note. Although I could get all of this working on the various 'flavors' of Ubuntu on two different desktop computers, on my laptop, JACK and PulseAudio cannot co-exist. I don't know why. The same thing that worked in Ubuntu 12.04 on my desktop computer does not work on my Acer Aspire laptop's Ubuntu 12.04 partition. Also, the same thing that worked on Kubuntu 12.10 on another desktop computer does not work on Kubuntu 12.04 on my laptop (admittedly a different level). I don't know if this is peculiar to my Acer Aspire laptop, or if it is a difficulty that laptops have in common. My only other laptop is my Macintosh test machine, and I don't dare (yet) risk putting Linux on it for dual-boot. -- Sincerely, Aere |
From: Holger M. <ho...@ma...> - 2013-02-02 07:56:23
|
On Fri, 1 Feb 2013, Aere Greenway wrote: > Although I could get all of this working on the various 'flavors' of Ubuntu on > two different desktop computers, on my laptop, JACK and PulseAudio cannot > co-exist. I don't know why. The same thing that worked in Ubuntu 12.04 on my > desktop computer does not work on my Acer Aspire laptop's Ubuntu 12.04 > partition. Hi Aere, please double check: /etc/default/pulseaudio PULSEAUDIO_SYSTEM_START=0 /etc/pulse/client.conf autospawn = no ~/.pulse/client.conf <- should not exist That's important because "the winner takes it all". Best regards Holger |
From: D. M. M. <ros...@gm...> - 2013-02-04 08:22:02
|
> If it sounds like something useful for Rosegarden, I would be happy to > make the modifications to make it Rosegarden-specific, and contribute it. Sounds useful to me... -- D. Michael McIntyre |
From: <she...@gm...> - 2013-02-04 08:24:02
|
and me. Cheers Shelagh On 4 February 2013 19:21, D. Michael McIntyre < ros...@gm...> wrote: > > If it sounds like something useful for Rosegarden, I would be happy to > > make the modifications to make it Rosegarden-specific, and contribute it. > > Sounds useful to me... > -- > D. Michael McIntyre > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. > Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics > Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan > _______________________________________________ > Rosegarden-devel mailing list > Ros...@li... - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-devel > |
From: Aere G. <Aere@Dvorak-Keyboards.com> - 2013-02-04 15:40:52
|
On 02/04/2013 01:21 AM, D. Michael McIntyre wrote: >> If it sounds like something useful for Rosegarden, I would be happy to >> make the modifications to make it Rosegarden-specific, and contribute it. > Sounds useful to me... Michael and all: I will make the changes to make it Rosegarden-specific, and will submit it via e-mail as a zip-archive. It is a directory with a number of files (mostly screen-shots), with an "index.html" file, so the link to it just needs to reference the directory on the web-site where it is stored. All of it was constructed using LibreOffice Writer. -- Sincerely, Aere |
From: D. M. M. <ros...@gm...> - 2013-02-05 09:19:06
|
> I have archived them (from a directory called "QsynthRosegarden") in a > ZIP-archive, and attached it to this e-mail. Thanks. I'll grab that and drop it in place soon. -- D. Michael McIntyre |
From: D. M. M. <ros...@gm...> - 2013-02-07 13:52:13
|
On 02/04/2013 06:56 PM, Aere Greenway wrote: > There's a lot of information there. I hope it proves useful for your > users. I nabbed a moment to get that published. I only glanced through it, but based on what I saw I felt this was worthy of a news headline. That's a very useful, thorough piece of documentation right there! Thanks for passing it along! -- D. Michael McIntyre |