Thread: [Refdb-users] Not reinventing the wheel ...
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From: <ste...@jo...> - 2006-11-13 13:03:10
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During my packaging work, i did also a package for refdb, a web-based=20 bibliographic project based on a mysql engine. They developped a common interface in php for formatting and=20 transforming data, Bibliophiile: http://bibliophile.sourceforge.net/ I was wondering if by chance, this could help refdb project. Cheers, St=E9phane --=20 St=E9phane T=E9letch=E9a, PhD. http://www.steletch.org Unit=E9 Math=E9matique Informatique et G=E9nome http://migale.jouy.inra.f= r/mig INRA, Domaine de Vilvert T=E9l : (33) 134 652 891 78352 Jouy-en-Josas cedex, France Fax : (33) 134 652 901 |
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From: David N. <dav...@sw...> - 2006-11-13 14:37:43
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Hi St=E9phane, > During my packaging work, i did also a package for refdb, a web-based=20 > bibliographic project based on a mysql engine. > > They developped a common interface in php for formatting and=20 > transforming data, Bibliophiile: http://bibliophile.sourceforge.net/ > > I was wondering if by chance, this could help refdb project. I'm not sure I understand your post. Are you sure you meant to type=20 "refdb" in the first sentence? Is refdb a web-based bibliographic=20 project based on a mysql engine? While refdb has a distributed=20 architecture, is it really web-based? And mysql is just one of three=20 available engines. I also wasn't aware Markus developed a common=20 interface in php for formatting and transforming data called=20 "Bibliophile". According to bibliophile's website that project was=20 founded by Mark Grimshaw, Matthias Steffens and Daniel Pozzi. Regards, David. |
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From: <ste...@jo...> - 2006-11-13 15:20:41
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David Nebauer a =E9crit : > Hi St=E9phane, >> During my packaging work, i did also a package for refdb, a web-based=20 >> bibliographic project based on a mysql engine. >> >> They developped a common interface in php for formatting and=20 >> transforming data, Bibliophiile: http://bibliophile.sourceforge.net/ >> >> I was wondering if by chance, this could help refdb project. >=20 >=20 > I'm not sure I understand your post. Are you sure you meant to type=20 > "refdb" in the first sentence? Is refdb a web-based bibliographic=20 > project based on a mysql engine? While refdb has a distributed=20 > architecture, is it really web-based? And mysql is just one of three=20 > available engines. I also wasn't aware Markus developed a common=20 > interface in php for formatting and transforming data called=20 > "Bibliophile". According to bibliophile's website that project was=20 > founded by Mark Grimshaw, Matthias Steffens and Daniel Pozzi. >=20 > Regards, > David. Argh, i meant refbase, of course, stupid fingers ... Of course, refdb is more robust to me, but i thought some=20 programes/ideas could be taken by Markus (and others). i'll try to pay more attention next time and to furnish some more example= s. Cheers, St=E9phane --=20 St=E9phane T=E9letch=E9a, PhD. http://www.steletch.org Unit=E9 Math=E9matique Informatique et G=E9nome http://migale.jouy.inra.f= r/mig INRA, Domaine de Vilvert T=E9l : (33) 134 652 891 78352 Jouy-en-Josas cedex, France Fax : (33) 134 652 901 |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2006-11-13 15:54:57
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Hi, not reinventing the wheel was one of the goals of RefDB, so I tried to re= use whatever was available out there. E.g. RefDB only includes bibliographic = data conversion utilities that I either need myself :-) or that were requested= , usually because nothing else was available for a particular task. refdb-m= ode integrates bibutils (http://www.scripps.edu/~cdputnam/software/bibutils/bibutils.html) to con= vert to and from a variety of formats not supported directly by RefDB. The documentation of bibliophile on the web is a little sparse, so I can't te= ll if they offer something which is not covered by these tools yet. I'm also unable to find out what their bibliography formatting tool OSBiB actually does. Maybe someone can fill me in here. The usual problem is th= at they apparently started yet another bibliographic style language, just li= ke any other comparable project (including RefDB) did. Integrating OSBiB support= into RefDB means having two incompatible style languages around. I'd like to k= now what output document types their engine supports. RefDB is targeted strai= gth at markup languages, making it vulnerable to criticism pointing out lack of = support for word processors. I don't know if OSBiB could play a role there, but I imagine other solutions for that problem (think SRW server). regards, Markus St=E9phane T=E9letch=E9a <ste...@jo...> was heard to say: > During my packaging work, i did also a package for refdb, a web-based > bibliographic project based on a mysql engine. > > They developped a common interface in php for formatting and > transforming data, Bibliophiile: http://bibliophile.sourceforge.net/ > > I was wondering if by chance, this could help refdb project. > --=20 Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: Daniel O'D. <dan...@ul...> - 2006-11-13 16:02:34
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On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 14:47 +0100, Markus Hoenicka wrote: > RefDB is targeted straigth at > markup languages, making it vulnerable to criticism pointing out lack of support > for word processors. I don't know if OSBiB could play a role there, but I > imagine other solutions for that problem (think SRW server). Or, since wordprocessors are becoming more XML based, if it couldn't be extended to include them. An idea I had while working on the coding of the php this summer--about to be revived--was extending it to cover open office: read the file in, unzip, change, and close back up. I don't know enough about the newer Word formats to say how it might work there. -dan > > regards, > Markus > > > Stéphane Téletchéa <ste...@jo...> was heard to say: > > > During my packaging work, i did also a package for refdb, a web-based > > bibliographic project based on a mysql engine. > > > > They developped a common interface in php for formatting and > > transforming data, Bibliophiile: http://bibliophile.sourceforge.net/ > > > > I was wondering if by chance, this could help refdb project. > > > > |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2006-11-13 16:17:17
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Daniel O'Donnell <dan...@ul...> was heard to say:
> Or, since wordprocessors are becoming more XML based, if it couldn't be
> extended to include them. An idea I had while working on the coding of
> the php this summer--about to be revived--was extending it to cover open
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ oh yes please
> office: read the file in, unzip, change, and close back up. I don't know
> enough about the newer Word formats to say how it might work there.
>
Might be doable, but OpenOffice has a fairly active subproject trying to improve
bibliography support:
http://bibliographic.openoffice.org/index.html
If they indeed settle on CiteProc as a bibliography formatting tool, RefDB could
serve as a data source via a SRW interface. This could be written and glued on
in a reasonable amount of time.
As far as Word XML is concerned, the stuff must be awful - see a comparison
here:
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20051125144611543
I've seen in another story that M$ is proud of being able to encode all approx.
400 possibilities to render a frame border in Word, but this comes at a price -
MSXML is not readable for humans, and accordingly hard to program for.
regards,
Markus
--
Markus Hoenicka
mar...@ca...
(Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka")
http://www.mhoenicka.de
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From: Bruce D'A. <bda...@gm...> - 2006-11-13 18:43:35
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On 11/13/06, Markus Hoenicka <mar...@mh...> wrote: > Might be doable, but OpenOffice has a fairly active subproject trying to improve > bibliography support: > > http://bibliographic.openoffice.org/index.html > > If they indeed settle on CiteProc as a bibliography formatting tool, RefDB could > serve as a data source via a SRW interface. This could be written and glued on > in a reasonable amount of time. That's the hope. The Zotero project is planning to add Word (and other) integration, and I'm trying to get them to do it by adding a standard API within the word processor. Index Data's Yaz client tool recently added SRU support, so that would make it pretty easy for different applications to plug-in to a variety of word-processors (the KWord guys are thinking about this too). Microsoft is already adding citation support to Word 2007 (complete with an API), so it wouldn't make sense to add output support through the raw XML. Bruce |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2006-11-14 10:27:25
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Bruce D'Arcus <bda...@gm...> was heard to say: > > If they indeed settle on CiteProc as a bibliography formatting tool, RefDB > could > > serve as a data source via a SRW interface. This could be written and glued > on > > in a reasonable amount of time. > > That's the hope. > Is there a list of SRW/SRU features that a data source has to support in order to work as a future OpenOffice bib data source? I'd like to focus on that at first. It will also help me to decide whether I should make the code part of refdbd (in C) or use an external server written in Perl which rewrites the queries. regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: <ste...@jo...> - 2006-11-14 10:54:10
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Markus Hoenicka a =E9crit : > Bruce D'Arcus <bda...@gm...> was heard to say: >=20 >>> If they indeed settle on CiteProc as a bibliography formatting tool, = RefDB >> could >>> serve as a data source via a SRW interface. This could be written and= glued >> on >>> in a reasonable amount of time. >> That's the hope. >> >=20 > Is there a list of SRW/SRU features that a data source has to support i= n order > to work as a future OpenOffice bib data source? I'd like to focus on th= at at > first. It will also help me to decide whether I should make the code pa= rt of > refdbd (in C) or use an external server written in Perl which rewrites = the > queries. >=20 > regards, > Markus >=20 Not sure about the future, but actually it already works with Bibus=20 (that's the reason i've looked towards it). You can get a rather complete description for OpenOffice.org connection: http://bibus-biblio.sourceforge.net/bibus_doc/html/en/usingOOo.html For Microsoft Word: http://merrami.com/bibus/BibusGarnerSite.htm#_Toc125789713 Cheers, St=E9phane --=20 St=E9phane T=E9letch=E9a, PhD. http://www.steletch.org Unit=E9 Math=E9matique Informatique et G=E9nome http://migale.jouy.inra.f= r/mig INRA, Domaine de Vilvert T=E9l : (33) 134 652 891 78352 Jouy-en-Josas cedex, France Fax : (33) 134 652 901 |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2006-11-14 11:48:47
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St=E9phane T=E9letch=E9a <ste...@jo...> was heard to say: > Not sure about the future, but actually it already works with Bibus > (that's the reason i've looked towards it). > > You can get a rather complete description for OpenOffice.org connection= : > http://bibus-biblio.sourceforge.net/bibus_doc/html/en/usingOOo.html > As far as I understand the document there are two ways to interact with OpenOffice: 1) ODBC This simply pulls the data out of a SQL table via ODBC. This requires tha= t there is a 1:1 mapping of the fields that OO expects and the fields in the data= base table. RefDB reference databases are relational, that is this simple mapp= ing is not going to work. 2) External control of OO through the UNO interface Sure you can program OO (and Word, fwiw) using their APIs, but this requi= res each bibliography tool to write one interface per supported word processo= r (n tools times m word processors makes n*m interfaces). The OO bib project (Bruce, correct me if I'm wrong) tries to implement a mechanism that allows OO to retrieve cited data through the SRU/SRW (http://www.loc.gov/standards/sru/) interface from any database that prov= ides such an interface. This would result in n+m interfaces and is the better approach as soon as you're looking at more than two word processors and m= ore than two data sources. regards, Markus --=20 Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: <ste...@jo...> - 2006-11-14 12:11:24
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Markus Hoenicka a =E9crit : > St=E9phane T=E9letch=E9a <ste...@jo...> was heard to say: >=20 >> Not sure about the future, but actually it already works with Bibus >> (that's the reason i've looked towards it). >> >> You can get a rather complete description for OpenOffice.org connectio= n: >> http://bibus-biblio.sourceforge.net/bibus_doc/html/en/usingOOo.html >> >=20 >=20 > As far as I understand the document there are two ways to interact with > OpenOffice: >=20 > 1) ODBC > This simply pulls the data out of a SQL table via ODBC. This requires t= hat there > is a 1:1 mapping of the fields that OO expects and the fields in the da= tabase > table. RefDB reference databases are relational, that is this simple ma= pping is > not going to work. Right. > 2) External control of OO through the UNO interface > Sure you can program OO (and Word, fwiw) using their APIs, but this req= uires > each bibliography tool to write one interface per supported word proces= sor (n > tools times m word processors makes n*m interfaces). Right, but that also means you can take advantage of the existing work=20 done in bibus, this is my major argument, in the end. > The OO bib project (Bruce, correct me if I'm wrong) tries to implement = a > mechanism that allows OO to retrieve cited data through the SRU/SRW > (http://www.loc.gov/standards/sru/) interface from any database that pr= ovides > such an interface. This would result in n+m interfaces and is the bette= r > approach as soon as you're looking at more than two word processors and= more > than two data sources. Sorry to not follow you argument but i've been on their mailing list=20 long time ago (around 2002 IIRC) and this feature is *far* from being=20 the priority. We're now close to 2007 and this is still a work in=20 progress. What we need is somthing working for the moment, and may be=20 another implementation later if they provide a better way. Second that does not solve the Word problem, bibus does. > regards, > Markus I'm not against any idea here, this is just i'm looking for solutions=20 since 2000/2001 and so far, only little pieces are available, nothing=20 integrated. My suggestions are : - Take refdb as the backend system (for data manipulation, import,=20 export and mangament), - use exising code (from refbase) for the php interface since it seems=20 more advanced that what we have in refdb for now, at least this will=20 help both sides i presume - take the bibus connectors for Word/OpenOffice.org The problem lies in the compaction of it. Do we need to integrate all in=20 refdb (that would be a must) or let them work flawlessly together (i was=20 thinking of getting a correspondance between tables and/or renaming some)= ? I hope i'm clearer now. Cheers, St=E9phane --=20 St=E9phane T=E9letch=E9a, PhD. http://www.steletch.org Unit=E9 Math=E9matique Informatique et G=E9nome http://migale.jouy.inra.f= r/mig INRA, Domaine de Vilvert T=E9l : (33) 134 652 891 78352 Jouy-en-Josas cedex, France Fax : (33) 134 652 901 |
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From: Bruce D'A. <bda...@gm...> - 2006-11-14 14:11:13
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On 11/14/06, St=E9phane T=E9letch=E9a <ste...@jo...> wrote: > Sorry to not follow you argument but i've been on their mailing list > long time ago (around 2002 IIRC) and this feature is *far* from being > the priority. We're now close to 2007 and this is still a work in > progress. What we need is somthing working for the moment, and may be > another implementation later if they provide a better way. The question is, is it really worth Markus' effort to do this in the short-= run? As for the state of OOoBib, it has indeed been slow coming. The truth is we need file format-level changes and then for some changes to be supported in Writer. Because this work requires extensive knowledge of both C++ and the Writer code, it can only really be done by Sun developers. For the longest time, Sun didn't really care about our project. However, things have changed recently. For one thing, I'm working with the ODF TC on a new metadata system for the file format. This is sort of similar to Microsoft's Custom Schema support (which they are using to implement the new citation support in Word 2007/Open XML). For this reason, Sun sees it as a mechanism to add richer custom solution support, and so citations are for them a perfect use case to build around. > Second that does not solve the Word problem, bibus does. Does Bibus support the new citation stuff in Word 2007? I'd say if Markus wants to experiment with the Bibus interfaces, he should do it. But it sounds like he has the same opinion that the KWord lead I talked to recently has: better to think of a more generic solution. My suggestion would be to see if we can engage a larger discussion that includes the Zotero developers about how best to move forward on this. They are explicitly targeting Word 2007. Bruce |
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From: Bruce D'A. <bda...@gm...> - 2006-11-14 14:18:21
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On 11/14/06, Bruce D'Arcus <bda...@gm...> wrote: > I'd say if Markus wants to experiment with the Bibus interfaces, he > should do it. But it sounds like he has the same opinion that the > KWord lead I talked to recently has: better to think of a more generic > solution. On this, BTW, he was wondering if D-Bus might help. Am not really sure. Bruce |
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From: Bruce D'A. <bda...@gm...> - 2006-11-14 13:53:08
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On 11/14/06, Markus Hoenicka <mar...@mh...> wrote: > The OO bib project (Bruce, correct me if I'm wrong) tries to implement a > mechanism that allows OO to retrieve cited data through the SRU/SRW > (http://www.loc.gov/standards/sru/) interface from any database that provides > such an interface. Correct. > This would result in n+m interfaces and is the better > approach as soon as you're looking at more than two word processors and more > than two data sources. Exactly. Bruce |
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From: <ste...@jo...> - 2006-11-13 16:35:00
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Daniel O'Donnell a =C3=A9crit : > On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 14:47 +0100, Markus Hoenicka wrote: >> RefDB is targeted straigth at >> markup languages, making it vulnerable to criticism pointing out lack = of support >> for word processors. I don't know if OSBiB could play a role there, bu= t I >> imagine other solutions for that problem (think SRW server). >=20 > Or, since wordprocessors are becoming more XML based, if it couldn't be > extended to include them. An idea I had while working on the coding of > the php this summer--about to be revived--was extending it to cover ope= n > office: read the file in, unzip, change, and close back up. I don't kno= w > enough about the newer Word formats to say how it might work there. >=20 > -dan >=20 Actually, i know a program that does the job '=C3=A0 la endnote', multi=20 platform, multi word processor, bibus. http://bibus-biblio.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page I've not checked extensively, but in coordination with refdb, the goal=20 was to set up a working refdb repository and allow bibus to use it=20 (instead of its own mysql db). After, bibus can be sued to insert citations into Word, OpenOffice.org. But some coding is needing, and i'm lacking two major ressources: - good coding skills - time ... Cheers, St=C3=A9phane --=20 St=C3=A9phane T=C3=A9letch=C3=A9a, PhD. http://www.stele= tch.org Unit=C3=A9 Math=C3=A9matique Informatique et G=C3=A9nome http://migale.jo= uy.inra.fr/mig INRA, Domaine de Vilvert T=C3=A9l : (33) 134 652 891 78352 Jouy-en-Josas cedex, France Fax : (33) 134 652 901 |
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From: <ste...@jo...> - 2006-11-13 16:38:27
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St=C3=A9phane T=C3=A9letch=C3=A9a a =C3=A9crit : > After, bibus can be sued to insert citations into Word, OpenOffice.org. Please please, read 'used' instead of 'sued' ... (going to the market=20 buying new fingers ...) --=20 St=C3=A9phane T=C3=A9letch=C3=A9a, PhD. http://www.stele= tch.org Unit=C3=A9 Math=C3=A9matique Informatique et G=C3=A9nome http://migale.jo= uy.inra.fr/mig INRA, Domaine de Vilvert T=C3=A9l : (33) 134 652 891 78352 Jouy-en-Josas cedex, France Fax : (33) 134 652 901 |
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From: Bruce D'A. <bda...@gm...> - 2006-11-13 18:47:39
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On 11/13/06, Markus Hoenicka <mar...@mh...> wrote: > I'm also unable to find out what their bibliography formatting tool OSBiB > actually does. Maybe someone can fill me in here. The usual problem is that > they apparently started yet another bibliographic style language, just like any > other comparable project (including RefDB) did. They're mostly focused on sharing PHP code. OSBIB is just that: it reads their style files and outputs formatted citations, etc. I agree that it's not likely to be very appropriate for RefDB. Bruce |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2006-11-14 10:24:58
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Bruce D'Arcus <bda...@gm...> was heard to say: > They're mostly focused on sharing PHP code. OSBIB is just that: it > reads their style files and outputs formatted citations, etc. I agree > that it's not likely to be very appropriate for RefDB. > Sure, but what is the output format? Plain text, HTML, XML, RTF, word processor documents? I couldn't find anything about that. regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: <ste...@jo...> - 2006-11-14 14:33:42
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Bruce D'Arcus a =E9crit : > On 11/14/06, St=E9phane T=E9letch=E9a <ste...@jo...> wrote: >=20 >> Sorry to not follow you argument but i've been on their mailing list >> long time ago (around 2002 IIRC) and this feature is *far* from being >> the priority. We're now close to 2007 and this is still a work in >> progress. What we need is somthing working for the moment, and may be >> another implementation later if they provide a better way. >=20 > The question is, is it really worth Markus' effort to do this in the sh= ort-run? In the short run, certainly not :-) Furthermore, i'm not able to help him coding him (otherwise i would have=20 proposed myself for it). In the long term though, the question is : do refdb need an extension to=20 word processors (Writer and Word being jusst two examples, there's also=20 abiword, kword, siag, ...) ? Roughly, i think yes, in the same way it already outputs text, html,=20 xml, bibtex, ... The question lies in where does it stops: - just exporting into a common format and another software is used to=20 insert into wordprocessors (at least this is already the case for=20 bibtex, why not for wordprocessors), that's why i've cited bibus - doing all the stuff (insert the citation directly into the=20 wordprocessor), and in that case, refdb may benefit from others work=20 (thus not reinventing the wheel). > As for the state of OOoBib, it has indeed been slow coming. The truth > is we need file format-level changes and then for some changes to be > supported in Writer. Because this work requires extensive knowledge of > both C++ and the Writer code, it can only really be done by Sun > developers. >=20 > For the longest time, Sun didn't really care about our project. > However, things have changed recently. For one thing, I'm working with > the ODF TC on a new metadata system for the file format. This is sort > of similar to Microsoft's Custom Schema support (which they are using > to implement the new citation support in Word 2007/Open XML). For this > reason, Sun sees it as a mechanism to add richer custom solution > support, and so citations are for them a perfect use case to build > around. Nice to hear that, but infortunately, that'll probably not help me a lot=20 when i'll be to wirte my publication with coworkers using either=20 Openoffice.org 1.x series and Word 2003 (if not before). I'm talking=20 about practical situations, within something like 6 months. Of course, we'll find a way, but i'm trying to get a working solution in=20 a not too far and unpredictable) future. >> Second that does not solve the Word problem, bibus does. >=20 > Does Bibus support the new citation stuff in Word 2007? Don't know yet, but the implementation *may* work as is. I know P.=20 Martineau, and i think if there's a need, he'll probably release a new=20 working template. > I'd say if Markus wants to experiment with the Bibus interfaces, he > should do it. But it sounds like he has the same opinion that the > KWord lead I talked to recently has: better to think of a more generic > solution. I'll ever agree with this, but this 'thinking' process just lies in the=20 middle of the problem: actually, we don't have *any* integrated solution. Remember the whole GPL driving force : release soon, release often ... > My suggestion would be to see if we can engage a larger discussion > that includes the Zotero developers about how best to move forward on > this. They are explicitly targeting Word 2007. >=20 > Bruce Ok for this, but only if there is an agreement on common features and a=20 designated leader. But that'll remember me the 2002 discussions on the=20 OpenOffice.org ML that led to the current situation :-( I totally agree on your long-term objectives, but that would=20 definitively not prevent getting a first smaller implementation (after=20 all, the ODT format has taken some time to grow, i presume the bib=20 extensions would need some maturation within versions also). Cheers, St=E9phane --=20 St=E9phane T=E9letch=E9a, PhD. http://www.steletch.org Unit=E9 Math=E9matique Informatique et G=E9nome http://migale.jouy.inra.f= r/mig INRA, Domaine de Vilvert T=E9l : (33) 134 652 891 78352 Jouy-en-Josas cedex, France Fax : (33) 134 652 901 |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2006-11-14 16:18:11
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St=E9phane T=E9letch=E9a <ste...@jo...> was heard to say: > Nice to hear that, but infortunately, that'll probably not help me a lo= t > when i'll be to wirte my publication with coworkers using either > Openoffice.org 1.x series and Word 2003 (if not before). I'm talking > about practical situations, within something like 6 months. > FWIW my short-term solution for this problem is to use Emacs+DocBook+RefD= B in the writing phase. Only once the contents are done, and only if the outpu= t format must be a word processor format, I transform to RTF using Openjade= and add the final touches in OO. If anyone claims that DocBook is too hard to= teach to the average mouse pusher addicted to Word, I always like to point out = that an average paper or grant proposal can be written using less than 40 element= s (out of >300). I'm currently revisiting an old project that would allow me to enter thes= e 30-something elements using a Wiki-style short syntax. There is a paper o= n the web that describes how to transform Wiki to XML using Openjade. regards Markus --=20 Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: Bruce D'A. <bda...@gm...> - 2006-11-14 17:39:15
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oops ... On 11/14/06, Markus Hoenicka <mar...@mh...> wrote: > I'm currently revisiting an old project that would allow me to enter these > 30-something elements using a Wiki-style short syntax. There is a paper on the > web that describes how to transform Wiki to XML using Openjade. I never got that far with it, but adding a simple extension to a wiki markup language like Textile is really easy, as is extending the Python and Ruby implementations to interpret it. Might be worth exploring too? Bruce |
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