Before upgrading my operational system to v0.22.1 I thought I would give the IMAP extension a try with Thunderbird 0.8. My ISP is plus.net in the UK just in case this is relevant.
Install and config was straightforward but I have yet to see any messages move automatically despite configuring several standard buckets to respective folders.
Manually moving messages in Thunderbird is detected correctly by popfile as reclassification. Popfile is now also classifying incomming messages as shown in its history but when I view the messages in thunderbird, they are still in the inbox.
Has anyone else seen this? Is there something I have not understood correctly?
Some qns which may or many not be relevant!
In the buckets view all are switched on except quarantine.
imap_training_mode=0 - is this correct?
imap_watched_folders=inbox - is this sufficient?
imap_uidnexts and imap_uidvalidities both end with '->' - is this correct or has this been trunkated?
As an asside, I have also noticed that my IMAP connection to plus.net seems to be a little unstable. I am not yet sure whether this is being caused by popfile or something else but will post here again if it looks like this is the case.
In the meantime, has anyone any ideas about why popfile is not moving the messages?
James
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Thunderbird locked up a short while after posting this and on a restart it now seems to be working fine. Messages arrive in inbox but are quickly sorted into correct folder by popfile. One of the test messages I had dragged into the correct folder on thunderbird had a read request pending and the lockup seems to occur when I dragged the message. You obviously have to answer the question as to whether you want to send the receipt before moving the message.
Thanks all and congratulations, it now all looks excellent. I have used popfile as a pop proxy for some time but this looks like a useful variant of the concept.
James
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Good to see that it now works for you. I'll answer some of your questions anyway.
It seems that you understood the concept just fine. You configuration looks ok. What option do you use for the IMAP expunge command (configuration tab: [ ] Expunge deleted messages from watched folders)? The default is off, but I recommend to enable it.
Another recommendation, although not related to IMAP at all: Tell Tunderbird to never ever send return receipts. Return receipts are (a) almost totally useless because many clients don't support them and (b) and invasion of your privacy. If somebody wants and acknowledgement, he can simply say so.
Manni
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I experience similar problems. Using latest release of popfile for windows v0.22.3 and latest imap module 1.9 I recieved with updateimap.exe.
Imap module is tuned exactly as described in document on site. Watched folder is Inbox only. Special folders are prepared and associated with Popfile buckets. Spam is detected and moved from Inbox to Trash Can where it should be stored at least three days. Expunge is on. But.
Reclassification of wrongly classified messages over popfile web-interface doesn't lead to moving of the original message from wrong folder to the right one. I have to move it manually on imap server. The imap server is provider's Communigate Pro. I can send the log (level=1) here but before it I would like to hear some comments from developer/experts. Perhaps I skip something.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
> Reclassification of wrongly classified
> messages over popfile web-interface
> doesn't lead to moving of the original
> message from wrong folder to the right one.
It isn't supposed to. The trick is that it works the other way round: move a message to the correct folder and you will see the classification change in the web interface.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
note that the message still needs to be in the history for the reclassification to work when you move the message. (so if you have history cut off after 1 day you only have one day to reclassify the message)
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Thanks for fast reply. Yes, you are right - I didn't noticed it in module description.
By the way, it seems to be rather interesting to implement this vice-versa feature too. So the reclassification will move messages in imap folders back too. If possible. Could it be linked to watching in several folders function?
For ex., if I watch the Inbox and Trash folders both and re-classify smth. wrongly detected from one to another so the next imap session popfile will detect wrong message and move it back. Right?
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
currently the popfile admin console doesn't do anything when you reclasify a message except change the database.
for just about everythign except IMAP that's all it could do, becouse it doesn't have access to the message anymore to do anything with it.
so this would be a lot of additional IMAP specific stuff that would go into the admin reclassify page (and this isn't a trivial thing to do so it would be fairly complicated and failure-prone as well), I'm not sure popfile would be willing to go that direction.
I'm not sure what you are meaning with your example.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Sorry for mess. I will try to be more direct.
OK, it's clear that the reclassify feedaback to imap folders is complicated stuff, postpone it for future.
Another idea is to use several different imap-folders for pf watching. What is watching? The process of checking email and making decision where it should move to. The decision is based on pf corpus, the corpus depends on and affected by manual re-classification. If I change the bucket for already received mail I instruct pf to be more precise next time. Imagine that pf watches two imap folders - Inbox and Trash. If I find wrong message and reclassify it over web-interface the corpus will be changed, next scan time pf will find this message in the appropriate folder and decide to move it to another folder. And it should do that according to new corpus info!
I understand that if Trash contains a lot of messages it will be rather long time for watching. But now I'm interested in concept itself. What is your opinion?
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
what will happen is
1. the message arrives in INBOX
2. popfile notices the message, decides that it's new and moves it to TRASH
3. you notice that it's wrong and go to the popfile GUI and reclassify it as INBOX
4. popfile notices the message in TRASH and sees that it's already been classified and so ignores it.
note that step 4 is very likly to take place before step 3 so by the time you reclassify it the message is no longer new in the TRASH folder
popfile doesn't look at every message in every folder each time, it only looks at messages that are new since the last time it looked there (otherwise people like me with 25,000 messages in their inbox couldn't ever scan for new messages :-)
now the 'correct' method if doing this is
1. new message appears in INBOX
2. popfile misclassifies it into TRASH
3. you notice it incorrectly in TRASH and move it back to INBOX
4. popfile notices a new message in INBOX that it previously had classified so it reclassifies it from TRASH to INBOX
the IMAP module looks for new messages in every folder that you assign a bucket for to deal with these reclassification events.
the watched folder option in the IMAP module is to tell it what folders to expect new messages in that haven't been classified and need to be. Now that I think about it, the only good reason I can think of to not treat all bucket folders as watched folders is the fact that history is limited and if you move an old message (that was misclassified) into a folder that has expired from the history it would get reclassified (incorrectly again probably) and then you would have to move it a second time to actually reclassify it.
the length of history was very important in the past when we kept the entire message for everything in the history, now that we have the history in the database (without the raw message) I wonder if it would be reasonable to keep the database portion of the history for a long time while purging the messages themselves that eat up all the space. if we do this it may be reasonable to eliminate the watched folders except as a possible source for new messages that don't belong to any bucket (not even unclassified)
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Before upgrading my operational system to v0.22.1 I thought I would give the IMAP extension a try with Thunderbird 0.8. My ISP is plus.net in the UK just in case this is relevant.
Install and config was straightforward but I have yet to see any messages move automatically despite configuring several standard buckets to respective folders.
Manually moving messages in Thunderbird is detected correctly by popfile as reclassification. Popfile is now also classifying incomming messages as shown in its history but when I view the messages in thunderbird, they are still in the inbox.
Has anyone else seen this? Is there something I have not understood correctly?
Some qns which may or many not be relevant!
In the buckets view all are switched on except quarantine.
imap_training_mode=0 - is this correct?
imap_watched_folders=inbox - is this sufficient?
imap_uidnexts and imap_uidvalidities both end with '->' - is this correct or has this been trunkated?
As an asside, I have also noticed that my IMAP connection to plus.net seems to be a little unstable. I am not yet sure whether this is being caused by popfile or something else but will post here again if it looks like this is the case.
In the meantime, has anyone any ideas about why popfile is not moving the messages?
James
Now sorted.
Thunderbird locked up a short while after posting this and on a restart it now seems to be working fine. Messages arrive in inbox but are quickly sorted into correct folder by popfile. One of the test messages I had dragged into the correct folder on thunderbird had a read request pending and the lockup seems to occur when I dragged the message. You obviously have to answer the question as to whether you want to send the receipt before moving the message.
Thanks all and congratulations, it now all looks excellent. I have used popfile as a pop proxy for some time but this looks like a useful variant of the concept.
James
Good to see that it now works for you. I'll answer some of your questions anyway.
It seems that you understood the concept just fine. You configuration looks ok. What option do you use for the IMAP expunge command (configuration tab: [ ] Expunge deleted messages from watched folders)? The default is off, but I recommend to enable it.
Another recommendation, although not related to IMAP at all: Tell Tunderbird to never ever send return receipts. Return receipts are (a) almost totally useless because many clients don't support them and (b) and invasion of your privacy. If somebody wants and acknowledgement, he can simply say so.
Manni
I experience similar problems. Using latest release of popfile for windows v0.22.3 and latest imap module 1.9 I recieved with updateimap.exe.
Imap module is tuned exactly as described in document on site. Watched folder is Inbox only. Special folders are prepared and associated with Popfile buckets. Spam is detected and moved from Inbox to Trash Can where it should be stored at least three days. Expunge is on. But.
Reclassification of wrongly classified messages over popfile web-interface doesn't lead to moving of the original message from wrong folder to the right one. I have to move it manually on imap server. The imap server is provider's Communigate Pro. I can send the log (level=1) here but before it I would like to hear some comments from developer/experts. Perhaps I skip something.
> Reclassification of wrongly classified
> messages over popfile web-interface
> doesn't lead to moving of the original
> message from wrong folder to the right one.
It isn't supposed to. The trick is that it works the other way round: move a message to the correct folder and you will see the classification change in the web interface.
note that the message still needs to be in the history for the reclassification to work when you move the message. (so if you have history cut off after 1 day you only have one day to reclassify the message)
Thanks for fast reply. Yes, you are right - I didn't noticed it in module description.
By the way, it seems to be rather interesting to implement this vice-versa feature too. So the reclassification will move messages in imap folders back too. If possible. Could it be linked to watching in several folders function?
For ex., if I watch the Inbox and Trash folders both and re-classify smth. wrongly detected from one to another so the next imap session popfile will detect wrong message and move it back. Right?
currently the popfile admin console doesn't do anything when you reclasify a message except change the database.
for just about everythign except IMAP that's all it could do, becouse it doesn't have access to the message anymore to do anything with it.
so this would be a lot of additional IMAP specific stuff that would go into the admin reclassify page (and this isn't a trivial thing to do so it would be fairly complicated and failure-prone as well), I'm not sure popfile would be willing to go that direction.
I'm not sure what you are meaning with your example.
Sorry for mess. I will try to be more direct.
OK, it's clear that the reclassify feedaback to imap folders is complicated stuff, postpone it for future.
Another idea is to use several different imap-folders for pf watching. What is watching? The process of checking email and making decision where it should move to. The decision is based on pf corpus, the corpus depends on and affected by manual re-classification. If I change the bucket for already received mail I instruct pf to be more precise next time. Imagine that pf watches two imap folders - Inbox and Trash. If I find wrong message and reclassify it over web-interface the corpus will be changed, next scan time pf will find this message in the appropriate folder and decide to move it to another folder. And it should do that according to new corpus info!
I understand that if Trash contains a lot of messages it will be rather long time for watching. But now I'm interested in concept itself. What is your opinion?
what will happen is
1. the message arrives in INBOX
2. popfile notices the message, decides that it's new and moves it to TRASH
3. you notice that it's wrong and go to the popfile GUI and reclassify it as INBOX
4. popfile notices the message in TRASH and sees that it's already been classified and so ignores it.
note that step 4 is very likly to take place before step 3 so by the time you reclassify it the message is no longer new in the TRASH folder
popfile doesn't look at every message in every folder each time, it only looks at messages that are new since the last time it looked there (otherwise people like me with 25,000 messages in their inbox couldn't ever scan for new messages :-)
now the 'correct' method if doing this is
1. new message appears in INBOX
2. popfile misclassifies it into TRASH
3. you notice it incorrectly in TRASH and move it back to INBOX
4. popfile notices a new message in INBOX that it previously had classified so it reclassifies it from TRASH to INBOX
the IMAP module looks for new messages in every folder that you assign a bucket for to deal with these reclassification events.
the watched folder option in the IMAP module is to tell it what folders to expect new messages in that haven't been classified and need to be. Now that I think about it, the only good reason I can think of to not treat all bucket folders as watched folders is the fact that history is limited and if you move an old message (that was misclassified) into a folder that has expired from the history it would get reclassified (incorrectly again probably) and then you would have to move it a second time to actually reclassify it.
the length of history was very important in the past when we kept the entire message for everything in the history, now that we have the history in the database (without the raw message) I wonder if it would be reasonable to keep the database portion of the history for a long time while purging the messages themselves that eat up all the space. if we do this it may be reasonable to eliminate the watched folders except as a possible source for new messages that don't belong to any bucket (not even unclassified)