pipmak-devel — Development of the Pipmak Game Engine

Re: Inactivity Warning

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

aviare <and...@gm...> wrote:

> I have received this message from Nabble:
> 
> Dear Nabble user,
> 
> The forum listed below is inactive and has been scheduled for deletion in 30
> days.
> To prevent this forum from being deleted, visit the forum and follow the
> instructions.
> 
> So, 
> I have write this just to prevent forum deleting...

You don't need to write anything to prevent deletion of the forum, just click on the button in the banner at the top of the page that says so. If the banner is no longer there, then someone else has already done it. In this case, me. Nothing to worry about, this happens regularly and I regularly click on that button.

> Any news about Pipmak? It is really dead?

No news from my part, and if anyone else had any I suppose they would have posted them on the mailing lists. If that means "dead", then yes it is.

 -Christian

Inactivity Warning

[aviare <and...@gm...>]

Hello folk,
I have received this message from Nabble:

Dear Nabble user,

The forum listed below is inactive and has been scheduled for deletion in 30
days.
To prevent this forum from being deleted, visit the forum and follow the
instructions.

So, 
I have write this just to prevent forum deleting...

By the way,
Any news about Pipmak? It is really dead? 

Andrea



-----
Let's save the little pipmak from the forgotten land!
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Re: Problem with Pipmak on Windows 10

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

aviare <and...@gm...> wrote:
> Recently I have tried to run Pipmak on my laptop with windows10 and I have
> observed some problems with the mouse pointer.
> The pointer remain at the top or at the bottom of the SDL window, it seems
> that only the y coordinate has some problem.
> In this way is very difficult or impossible click on the object in the
> window...
> I tryed with different Pipmak version (original or compiled by me) and the
> effect is the same.
> This doesn't happened with previous build of windows10.
> Do you think that there are some library to upgrade?

I'm sorry for the delay - as you have probably guessed from my silence, I don't have an answer for you. I was just reminded that I should probably respond nonetheless...

I have just tried Pipmak 0.2.7 on Windows 10, and it seems to work nicely, no mouse problems in either windowed or fullscreen mode, in either mouse mode. It even copes with the high-resolution (2x) display. I'm not sure if I am still on the "previous build of windows10", I have stopped keeping track of Windows updates as it does what it wants anyway.

You could try updating to a newer version of SDL, but that would probably require some changes to the code, it's really old by now.

 -Christian

Re: Problem with Pipmak on Windows 10

[Squeak <mar...@ou...>]

Hello Andrea...
I am on windows7 and stopped updates last year to stop the forced change to
w10...
I am not a programmer like you...
I noticed not to use full screen option with things like 'Stellarium'
programme, as mouse arrow disappears.
also many games do not work now for various reasons.
I intend to go back to original w7.



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Problem with Pipmak on Windows 10

[aviare <and...@gm...>]

Hello Christian!

How much time!
I never forgot Pipmak!
Recently I have tried to run Pipmak on my laptop with windows10 and I have
observed some problems with the mouse pointer.
The pointer remain at the top or at the bottom of the SDL window, it seems
that only the y coordinate has some problem.
In this way is very difficult or impossible click on the object in the
window...
I tryed with different Pipmak version (original or compiled by me) and the
effect is the same.
This doesn't happened with previous build of windows10.
Do you think that there are some library to upgrade?

I'm very sorry that Pipmak live in the forgotten land.... inside it were
several beautiful ideas, still valid at the moment!
Bye!

Andrea Viarengo






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Re: Nabble forum is back

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Christian Walther wrote on pipmak-users:
> I have recreated the web forum interface to our mailing lists at Nabble that has disappeared a while back:
> 
> http://pipmak.40927.n7.nabble.com/

And just to be sure that Nabble's subscription works, a test message here too (sorry for the noise, but there seems to be some confusion about the address it's using).

 -Christian

Re: [pipmak-devel] Warning "keyboard button"

[Mr A. <mr_...@ya...>]

Its doing it in the "Demo Project for Pipmak 0.2.7" to.
When I push volume down its showing Hotspots
Its acting as the "C" key
The "down volume key" does turn the 
Sound down, but its showing the Hotspots
I thing its a bug, But.... is anyone else seeing this.
I'm using Pipmak 0.2.7

(Bring up the Demo Project for Pipmak 0.2.7
and turn the volume down...See what it does please)

I'm using "Windows xp" to run PIPMAK
Is windows Causing this????
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Re: Warning "keyboard button"

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

> The button "Volume/down" on the keyboard reveals hotspots.
> So when a Gamer turns the volume down he or she will see the hotspots.
>
> Is there a way to disable this????

Oops! That function is supposed to be triggered by the C key, not by  
"volume down". Must be a bug that Pipmak recognizes that key as "C".

The way to disable that is to define your own keydown handler in  
main.lua that overrides the default one. You should do that anyway,  
regardless of the bug, since players shouldn't be able to show  
hotspots using the C key (and use some of the other key bindings  
defined by the default handler, which is more oriented at authoring)  
either. See section 2.12 "Keyboard Handling" in the manual.

On what platform is this? To help me debug this, could you make your  
own keydown handler and tell me what you get for the "key" and "char"  
arguments when you press the "volume down" key (and maybe "volume up"  
and any other special keys you have as well)?

  -Christian

Warning "keyboard button"

[Mr A. <mr_...@ya...>]

The button "Volume/down" on the keyboard reveals hotspots.
So when a Gamer turns the volume down he or she will see the hotspots. 

Is there a way to disable this????

Re: Sound playback issue at >44.1kHz sample rate

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

jcowen wrote:
> Thanks Christian! That solved it!

OK, good to know! That means I'll have to use a newer version of the 
framework for the next release, rip it out altogether, or find a way of 
using the system-provided one in preference to the built-in one.

  -Christian

Re: [pipmak-devel] Sound playback issue at >44.1kHz sample rate

[jcowen <jc...@ma...>]

Christian Walther wrote:
> 
> jcowen wrote:
>> I'm wondering if anyone has experienced sound playback distortion when
>> sample rates greater than 44.1kHz are in the game engine? 
> 
> One thing you could try is to use the system-provided OpenAL framework 
> instead of the one that comes with Pipmak (which is there because OpenAL 
> was only included in Mac OS from 10.4 on). To do this, right-click 
> (ctrl-click) on the Pipmak application and choose "Show package 
> contents". Navigate to Contents/Frameworks and move the folder 
> OpenAL.framework away (to your desktop or somewhere else outside of the 
> application package).
> 
> 

Thanks Christian! That solved it!

JC
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Re: Sound playback issue at >44.1kHz sample rate

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

jcowen wrote:
> I'm wondering if anyone has experienced sound playback distortion when
> sample rates greater than 44.1kHz are in the game engine? This seems to
> occur if the source files are at 48kHz for instance when converted to ogg,
> and also when the engine pitches sounds up.
> 
> For instance, a 44.1kHz ogg file placed on the knobs in the demo project
> building will distort/playback with digital artifacts when the knob is tied
> to the pitch variable of that sound.
> 
> This is only occurring on the Mac OS 10.5. I have not had the opportunity to
> check on Snow Leopard.

I see no such issues here, with either 44.1 or 48 kHz files. All I hear 
is a slight pop when the pitch changes between exactly 1.0 and >1.0, 
otherwise playback is smooth and clear, even at varying pitch. This is 
on a MacBookPro2,2 with 10.5.8.

One thing you could try is to use the system-provided OpenAL framework 
instead of the one that comes with Pipmak (which is there because OpenAL 
was only included in Mac OS from 10.4 on). To do this, right-click 
(ctrl-click) on the Pipmak application and choose "Show package 
contents". Navigate to Contents/Frameworks and move the folder 
OpenAL.framework away (to your desktop or somewhere else outside of the 
application package).

  -Christian

[pipmak-devel] Sound playback issue at >44.1kHz sample rate

[jcowen <jc...@ma...>]

Hi Everyone,

I'm wondering if anyone has experienced sound playback distortion when
sample rates greater than 44.1kHz are in the game engine? This seems to
occur if the source files are at 48kHz for instance when converted to ogg,
and also when the engine pitches sounds up.

For instance, a 44.1kHz ogg file placed on the knobs in the demo project
building will distort/playback with digital artifacts when the knob is tied
to the pitch variable of that sound.

This is only occurring on the Mac OS 10.5. I have not had the opportunity to
check on Snow Leopard.

Thank you,
JC
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Re: Proposed change to Pipmak's grabbing

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Aidan Gauland wrote:
> Urs has a good point.  Perhaps, as Pipmak can, but won't always, be used as
> development tool, we should release two different versions: a developer build
>  (for developers *using* Pipmak, not developers *of* Pipmak), and a user
> build.  The only difference being that the developer build has features that
> would be useful only to developers, and the user build would have these
> stripped out at compile time.
> 
> Some features that would only be useful to developers that I can think of off
> the top of my head:
> 
> * Highlighting controls.
> * The table editor.
> * Control over the grabbing.
> * The Lua command-line.
> * Creating a new, empty project (this would not be necessary for a copy of
> Pipmak bundled with a game).

I have thought about this in the past, but dismissed the idea for 
various reasons (mentioned here: 
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.games.devel.pipmak.user/103). Mainly 
because it seems an unnecessary complication to me.

As to the "control over grabbing" issue, I would still prefer to fix the 
problem instead of making far-reaching decisions in an attempt to work 
around it.

  -Christian

Re: Proposed change to Pipmak's grabbing

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Aidan Gauland wrote:
> I also have no idea where to begin with looking for this bug in SDL.

I would start by compiling SDL from source, running Pipmak (or a small 
test application) in a debugger, and stepping into an SDL_WM_GrabInput 
call to see what it does.

  -Christian

Re: Proposed change to Pipmak's grabbing

[Aidan G. <wgs...@no...>]

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Urs Holzer wrote:
> Christian Walther wrote:
>>> Or make it possible to force
>>> grabbing *off* permanently (but this probably would not improve
>>> anything).
>> That would make direct mouse mode unusable.
> 
> This wouldn't be a problem when developing a game, would it? I think the 
> only right solution to this problem is to implement different behaviours 
> and an option that lets the user switch between them. As default we 
> should use a behaviour that is most convinient to a player, a developer 
> always can change the option.

Urs has a good point.  Perhaps, as Pipmak can, but won't always, be used as
development tool, we should release two different versions: a developer build
 (for developers *using* Pipmak, not developers *of* Pipmak), and a user
build.  The only difference being that the developer build has features that
would be useful only to developers, and the user build would have these
stripped out at compile time.

Some features that would only be useful to developers that I can think of off
the top of my head:

* Highlighting controls.
* The table editor.
* Control over the grabbing.
* The Lua command-line.
* Creating a new, empty project (this would not be necessary for a copy of
Pipmak bundled with a game).

 --Aidan
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Re: Proposed change to Pipmak's grabbing

[Aidan G. <wgs...@no...>]

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Christian Walther wrote:
> Aidan Gauland wrote:
>> What I don't like is that Pipmak makes the mouse jump when the mouse moves
>> over and past the window.
> 
> Then the proper course of action would be to fix this in SDL. Grabbing 
> and ungrabbing should not make the mouse jump. I have never examined 
> grabbing in the X11 backend of SDL, maybe it's easy to fix. Maybe it's 
> even fixed already - I haven't followed SDL development for almost two 
> years. I don't even know what the status of SDL 1.3 is, whether it has 
> already supplanted 1.2 as the "stable" version.

SDL 1.3 has yet to succeed SDL 1.2, and the version in Debian stable is only
one behind the latest upstream version.

I also have no idea where to begin with looking for this bug in SDL.

>> ... someone else on the mailing lists (Urs, I think) said that he had
>> problems with Pipmak's edge-resistance on KDE's window manager
> 
> Didn't we eliminate the edge resistance (r177)?

Yes we did.  I was just pointing out that another X11-only grabbing-issue.

>> Maybe we need to, instead, look at the workaround to prevent the mouse from
>> becoming permanently grabbed.  I think it was to generate a mouse-motion
>> event, which would be why the mouse jumps.
> 
> Are you talking about any of revs 178, 179, 180, 195? I'm not sure if 
> they have anything to do with the issue.

Yes, sorry.  I was getting confused about what was changed.
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Re: Proposed change to Pipmak's grabbing

[Urs H. <ur...@an...>]

Christian Walther wrote:
>> Or make it possible to force
>> grabbing *off* permanently (but this probably would not improve
>> anything).
> 
> That would make direct mouse mode unusable.

This wouldn't be a problem when developing a game, would it? I think the 
only right solution to this problem is to implement different behaviours 
and an option that lets the user switch between them. As default we 
should use a behaviour that is most convinient to a player, a developer 
always can change the option.

Re: Proposed change to Pipmak's grabbing

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Aidan Gauland wrote:
> What I don't like is that Pipmak makes the mouse jump when the mouse moves
> over and past the window.

Then the proper course of action would be to fix this in SDL. Grabbing 
and ungrabbing should not make the mouse jump. I have never examined 
grabbing in the X11 backend of SDL, maybe it's easy to fix. Maybe it's 
even fixed already - I haven't followed SDL development for almost two 
years. I don't even know what the status of SDL 1.3 is, whether it has 
already supplanted 1.2 as the "stable" version.

> ... someone else on the mailing lists (Urs, I think) said that he had
> problems with Pipmak's edge-resistance on KDE's window manager

Didn't we eliminate the edge resistance (r177)?

> Maybe we need to, instead, look at the workaround to prevent the mouse from
> becoming permanently grabbed.  I think it was to generate a mouse-motion
> event, which would be why the mouse jumps.

Are you talking about any of revs 178, 179, 180, 195? I'm not sure if 
they have anything to do with the issue.

> Or make it possible to force
> grabbing *off* permanently (but this probably would not improve anything).

That would make direct mouse mode unusable.

  -Christian

Re: Proposed change to Pipmak's grabbing

[Aidan G. <wgs...@no...>]

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Christian Walther wrote:
> I have tried this patch, and it appears to work as intended. However, I 
> dislike the intention, because I think it decreases usability.
> 
> My main objection is that it makes the user aware of the grabbing and 
> requires him to think about it and understand the concept. The grabbing 
> should be an implementation detail, something that happens in the 
> background without the user noticing. Since you say you found it 
> awkward, it appears that this has not been the case for you? Perhaps 
> there's a way of fixing that, instead of trying to cover up the 
> symptoms? As it is, my impression is that you made things much more 
> awkward than before. It worked (mostly) nicely for me on Mac OS X 
> before, if it didn't for you on Linux, can you explain how?

Now that I think about it that way (as an implementation detail), I think it
does make things worse.

What I don't like is that Pipmak makes the mouse jump when the mouse moves
over and past the window.  Although, this would not be much of an issue if I
were only playing a Pipmak game, instead of using it for development.  I have
tried Pipmak on Mac OS X (although I don't own a Macintosh), and it is much
smoother on that system.  It seems that this problem occurs on X11, no matter
what the window manager, since someone else on the mailing lists (Urs, I
think) said that he had problems with Pipmak's edge-resistance on KDE's window
manager (KWM, I think), and I have experienced it with three other window
managers (metacity, xfwm, and stumpwm).

Maybe we need to, instead, look at the workaround to prevent the mouse from
becoming permanently grabbed.  I think it was to generate a mouse-motion
event, which would be why the mouse jumps.  Or make it possible to force
grabbing *off* permanently (but this probably would not improve anything).

> Also, being able to ungrab while in direct mouse mode is confusing.

Yes, I admit I had not thought about that.  That makes things even more awkward.
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Re: Proposed change to Pipmak's grabbing

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Aidan Gauland wrote:
> I have writtien a patch for Pipmak that changes the way it grabs the
> window-manager input
> ...
> 
> I wrote this patch, because I always found the auto-grabbing a bit akward, and
> I would like some feedback from the other Pipmak users on this.

I have tried this patch, and it appears to work as intended. However, I 
dislike the intention, because I think it decreases usability.

My main objection is that it makes the user aware of the grabbing and 
requires him to think about it and understand the concept. The grabbing 
should be an implementation detail, something that happens in the 
background without the user noticing. Since you say you found it 
awkward, it appears that this has not been the case for you? Perhaps 
there's a way of fixing that, instead of trying to cover up the 
symptoms? As it is, my impression is that you made things much more 
awkward than before. It worked (mostly) nicely for me on Mac OS X 
before, if it didn't for you on Linux, can you explain how?

Also, being able to ungrab while in direct mouse mode is confusing.

Technical note: There was a reason why we also grab in joystick mode, 
where it wouldn't normally be necessary. That hasn't always been like 
that. I don't remember exactly (would have to consult the SVN log), but 
I think it was that otherwise I didn't manage to always get seamless 
transitions between joystick and direct mode, without jumps of the 
cursor. Ideally that is something that should be fixed in SDL, but I 
didn't succeed on Mac OS X at the time, and gave up when I noticed that 
things weren't any better on Windows and X11.

  -Christian

Re: Development of Video on Pipmak

[James W. <jfc...@ya...>]

Hi,
 
How's your game and Ogg Theora implmetation coming, if you don't mind me asking?
Any release date? I really am looking forward to the first full free game using the Pipmak engine.
 
Thanks,
  James CW
 
 
--- On Fri, 7/17/09, val...@fr... <val...@fr...> wrote:


From: val...@fr... <val...@fr...>
Subject: Development of Video on Pipmak
To: pip...@li...
Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:25 PM


Hello,

I represent a french team developing a free game using Pipmak engine.
We know that the video integration is not yet done for Pipmak.
However, we’re going to really need this feature and it’s the reason why we
offer our services to develop voluntarily this feature for Pipmak.
We noticed the first video implementation you  would like to do is for Ogg
Theora.

Would you be interested by our proposal ?
Do you have a development standard to give us ?
Have you started to work on this implementation ?
If you haven’t, have you thought about it and what are your advices ?

Thanks for reading and above all thank you for this amazing game engine !

Val


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Proposed change to Pipmak's grabbing

[Aidan G. <wgs...@no...>]

Hello,

I have writtien a patch for Pipmak that changes the way it grabs the
window-manager input as follows:
* It no longer automatically when the mouse enters the window.
* It no longer ungrabs the mouse when the mouse is run against the window edge.
* Pressing Ctrl+Alt toggles the grabbing.
* When grabbing is on, a message is displayed in the window title that tells
the user how to get his mouse back.
* All calls to SDL_WM_GrabInput() have been changed to call a new function in
Pipmak itself: pipmakGrabInput().
* pipmakGrabInput() handles changing the title to add the message mentioned above.

I wrote this patch, because I always found the auto-grabbing a bit akward, and
I would like some feedback from the other Pipmak users on this.

  --Aidan

Re: [pipmak-devel] Development of Video on Pipmak

[rivenwanderer <riv...@ya...>]

This is a great idea!

I will point out that the Blender Game Engine and the OGRE 3D engine (both
open-source) have support for realtime Theora video textures.  I don't have
a clue how similar their code is to Pipmak's, but maybe their
implementations can at least provide some ideas.


valerian.g wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I represent a french team developing a free game using Pipmak engine.
> We know that the video integration is not yet done for Pipmak.
> However, we’re going to really need this feature and it’s the reason why
> we
> offer our services to develop voluntarily this feature for Pipmak.
> We noticed the first video implementation you  would like to do is for Ogg
> Theora.
> 
> Would you be interested by our proposal ?
> Do you have a development standard to give us ?
> Have you started to work on this implementation ?
> If you haven’t, have you thought about it and what are your advices ?
> 
> Thanks for reading and above all thank you for this amazing game engine !
> 
> Val
> 

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Re: Pipmak for iPhone and/or PSP

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

IrishRed863 wrote:
> I've used FMod and Torque 2D, to name two well-known external libs, in iPhone
> apps that were approved by Apple. While Apple reserves the right to reject
> an app, they apparently do not tend to do so on those grounds alone. In
> fact, during the license process the FMod guys reported that they've not had
> a single iPhone licensee have a rejected app yet.

Thanks for the information. Good to have another iPhone developer around.

> I realize the presence of an interpreter may be a little different, but I
> think (and may be wrong here) that Torque is also running an interpreter for
> its script.

As far as I can see, the issue is not presence of an interpreter (and 
even less use of third-party libraries), but the possibiliy to interpret 
user-supplied code that is not part of the signed application. So, a 
Pipmak game should be fine, but Pipmak as a standalone application wouldn't.

  -Christian