From: ALAN M. <ala...@bt...> - 2005-12-29 21:18:32
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So, whats the deal with libjingle then? It would be amazing if gaim was able to use that! I know that gaim is supposed to be an "im client" but im is fast merging with voip and imo is sure to dissapear as a stand alone service alltogether! Are there any plans to integrate libjingle with gaim? I know googletalk was supposedly to support SIP.. anyone know if thats changed now that they are using libjingle? Thanks, Alan. |
From: Daniel G. <neg...@gm...> - 2005-12-29 22:04:14
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On 12/29/05, ALAN MCGINLAY <ala...@bt...> wrote: > So, whats the deal with libjingle then? [...] Bugger off. Daniel |
From: Mark D. <ma...@ki...> - 2005-12-30 03:51:00
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On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:18:19 +0000 (GMT), ALAN MCGINLAY wrote > So, whats the deal with libjingle then? It would be > amazing if gaim was able to use that! I know that gaim > is supposed to be an "im client" but im is fast > merging with voip and imo is sure to dissapear as a > stand alone service alltogether! Are there any plans > to integrate libjingle with gaim? I know googletalk > was supposedly to support SIP.. anyone know if thats > changed now that they are using libjingle? Please ignore the other response to your question. I'm don't know what prompted that. Voice and video support is in the works. Right now you should be able to voice chat with a GTalk client using our Jabber protocol and a gtalk account. I can't give you the details on how to do that, and I've never done it so I'm not 100% sure it works. I don't know if we're actually using libjingle (my guess is that we're not). Sean might reply with more info. Eventually we'll move to using gstreamer and supporting voice and video for more than just Jabber. We don't have any idea when that will happen. -Mark |
From: Sean E. <sea...@gm...> - 2007-01-28 02:41:00
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On 1/27/07, Colin Barrett <ti...@la...> wrote: > I would encourage you guys to at > least attempt to abstract things out a little, so we might be able to > shoehorn Quicktime in. That's the thing. Gstreamer *is* an abstraction. I've scoured high and low to find media streaming that was: - Cross platform - Open-source - Not sucky and Gstreamer is absolutely the best alternative. Sometimes an abstraction would be simple: you could easily have a libgaim API that told the UI to stream PCMU audio with RTP to 10.0.0.0:8123, which is a pretty straight-forward, common case. It's harder to say, in the case of MSN webcams, for instance, stream video using this rare, reverse engineered codec. And without essentially reinventing gstreamer from scratch, It's near downright impossible to do something like Jingle, which boils down to: here's a bunch of IP addresses, ports, and local UDP sockets. Send STUN binding request packets out on all of the remote addresses from each of the local sockets, and determine which one has the lowest latency. Then use that connection to stream RTP audio with this audio codec. This isn't even *possible* to do if you use Quicktime, but with Gstreamer, it's probably about 30 lines of code in the prpl. So rest assured, even if you want to replace gstreamer with something else, there's not much for you to #ifdef out ;) |
From: <mo...@gm...> - 2007-01-28 10:57:21
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Sean Egan schrieb: > On 1/27/07, Colin Barrett <ti...@la...> wrote: > >> I would encourage you guys to at >> least attempt to abstract things out a little, so we might be able to >> shoehorn Quicktime in. >> > > Ab bit OT: How does VLC (videolan.org) solve this? At least they have a lot of output-filters for sound and video that work on a bunch of platforms?? Morty -- strübe.de <http://xn--strbe-mva.de> Diese Email ist signiert. Sollte Dein Email-Client keine Signaturen unterstützen wird eine smime.p7s-Datei im Anhang angezeigt. Meinen PGP/GPG-Key gibt es auf den üblichen Keyservern. |
From: Daniel G. <neg...@gm...> - 2005-12-30 07:20:57
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On 12/29/05, Mark Doliner <ma...@ki...> wrote: > Please ignore the other response to your question. I'm don't know what > prompted that. An un-named gaim developer was standing over my shoulder and told me to say that. After confirming that he wasn't joking, I did so. *shrugs* Daniel |
From: Kevin K. <ke...@ku...> - 2005-12-30 21:17:44
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From: Anuj V. (Kevin) <kev...@gm...> - 2007-01-27 18:25:13
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On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 22:50:53 -0500, Mark Doliner wrote: > Please ignore the other response to your question. I'm don't know what > prompted that. > > Voice and video support is in the works. > > Right now you should be able to voice chat with a GTalk client using our > Jabber protocol and a gtalk account. I can't give you the details on how > to do that, and I've never done it so I'm not 100% sure it works. I don't > know if we're actually using libjingle (my guess is that we're not). Sean > might reply with more info. > > Eventually we'll move to using gstreamer and supporting voice and video > for more than just Jabber. We don't have any idea when that will happen. > > -Mark Hi, I got interested after a long wait to see if libjingle ever gets in Gaim, I have gone through few basic searches, and I noticed Sean never actually responded on this. Looking at the developments with Tapioca and kind of Nokia & Google effort for Gtalk Voice on Linux, I am sure this is not impossible. I'll like to know if Sean can provide more insight on this, why Gaim is deprived of libjingle enhancements. It will be great to see this being implemented to a single core IM tool, Gaim. Waiting to know of the recent efforts. Regards, Kevin |
From: Ethan B. <ebl...@cs...> - 2007-01-27 20:06:22
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Anuj Verma (Kevin) spake unto us the following wisdom: > I got interested after a long wait to see if libjingle ever gets in Gaim, > I have gone through few basic searches, and I noticed Sean never actually > responded on this.=20 Sean has responded to this numerous times, on various forums, but perhaps not this mailing list. Following the release of Gaim 2.0.0, integration of libjingle support is slated for the 3.0.0 development timeframe. Jingle (nor other voice or video features) will not be included in 2.0.0, or probably the 2.x series. Ethan --=20 The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy for evils]. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. -- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764 |
From: Sean E. <sea...@gm...> - 2007-01-27 20:44:32
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On 1/27/07, Anuj Verma (Kevin) <kev...@gm...> wrote: > I'll like to know if Sean can provide more insight on this, why Gaim is > deprived of libjingle enhancements. What a long-reaching followup! Turns out I had a draft in my Gmail that I had forgotten to hit the send button on ;) Supporting voice calling in Google Talk with libjingle doesn't make sense in the context of Gaim unless it also provides an API abstraction that allows all protocols to make voice calls (and video). This is what's referred to as "gaim-vv." Currently, the most promising avenue for that uses gstreamer to handle most of the audio pipelining. This is one of the reasons I wanted Gaim 2.0.0 to use gstreamer to make it's little IM sounds: to see how it would work for people. At the time libjingle was originally released, the pieces needed for gstreamer to work were still in their infancy and simply wouldn't work at all. Since then, as you mention, the work done by Collabora in working on the Nokia 770 have vastly improved RTP streaming in Gstreamer, and it should be possible to work on -vv. However, we really want to release 2.0.0 before adding any major new features and dependencies (and this is pretty major). It's not necessarily a "3.0.0" feature in that it doesn't break backward-compatibility. Ethan's possibly pretty accurate at calling it a "3.0.0 *timeframe*" feature, depending on how quickly we manage to get it working. -s. |
From: Colin B. <ti...@la...> - 2007-01-28 01:34:29
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On Jan 27, 2007, at 12:44 PM, Sean Egan wrote: > On 1/27/07, Anuj Verma (Kevin) <kev...@gm...> wrote: >> I'll like to know if Sean can provide more insight on this, why >> Gaim is >> deprived of libjingle enhancements. > > What a long-reaching followup! Turns out I had a draft in my Gmail > that I had forgotten to hit the send button on ;) > > Supporting voice calling in Google Talk with libjingle doesn't make > sense in the context of Gaim unless it also provides an API > abstraction that allows all protocols to make voice calls (and video). > This is what's referred to as "gaim-vv." > > Currently, the most promising avenue for that uses gstreamer to handle > most of the audio pipelining. This is one of the reasons I wanted Gaim > 2.0.0 to use gstreamer to make it's little IM sounds: to see how it > would work for people. > > At the time libjingle was originally released, the pieces needed for > gstreamer to work were still in their infancy and simply wouldn't work > at all. > > Since then, as you mention, the work done by Collabora in working on > the Nokia 770 have vastly improved RTP streaming in Gstreamer, and it > should be possible to work on -vv. However, we really want to release > 2.0.0 before adding any major new features and dependencies (and this > is pretty major). > > It's not necessarily a "3.0.0" feature in that it doesn't break > backward-compatibility. Ethan's possibly pretty accurate at calling it > a "3.0.0 *timeframe*" feature, depending on how quickly we manage to > get it working. This is, and elb's other post, were very revealing. Will Gaim's vv code will be completely married to Gstreamer? If so, where does that leave folks who want to use VV, but are using libgaim on other platforms? SOL? I seem to remember reading that Gstreamer's mac support was fairly weak, and that they had little interest in improving it. Please, if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. -Colin |
From: Richard L. <rl...@wi...> - 2007-01-28 01:37:46
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On Sat, 2007-01-27 at 17:34 -0800, Colin Barrett wrote: > This is, and elb's other post, were very revealing. Will Gaim's vv =20 > code will be completely married to Gstreamer? If so, where does that =20 > leave folks who want to use VV, but are using libgaim on other =20 > platforms? SOL? I seem to remember reading that Gstreamer's mac =20 > support was fairly weak, and that they had little interest in =20 > improving it. Please, if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. I'm not sure how tied -vv and GStreamer will be, but let me pose this question: Do you know of a better cross-platform toolkit to use in place of GStreamer? Richard |
From: Sean E. <sea...@gm...> - 2007-01-28 02:17:50
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On 1/27/07, Colin Barrett <ti...@la...> wrote: > This is, and elb's other post, were very revealing. Will Gaim's vv > code will be completely married to Gstreamer? If so, where does that > leave folks who want to use VV, but are using libgaim on other > platforms? SOL? Heh, haven't we had this conversation on adium-devl before? ;) It probably will be married to Gstreamer. It'll probably be something along the lines of "give the PRPL a 'source' and a 'sink,' and let it tie everything together to make things work (see: Farsight). It's basically impossible to exact all the control needed otherwise. I've certainly put a lot of thought into it. > I seem to remember reading that Gstreamer's mac > support was fairly weak, and that they had little interest in > improving it. Please, if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. I recall it worked just fine, but you wanted to avoid it since quicktime is capable of RTP streaming a bunch of audio codecs on its own, so you wanted to be able to use it directly. Unfortunately, it turned out not to be possible to do Jingle with it. The core of gstreamer is pretty light-weight and entirely cross platform. It just provides a way to stream data across different 'elements' while maintaining timing information and whatnot. Then there are plugin elements for things like codecs and RTP streaming, again, all platform-independent. The platform-specific stuff all lies in data 'sinks' and 'sources,' which tend to be relatively straightforward. On Linux, it's ass complicated because everyone and his aunt went and invented a new way to talk to /dev/dsp, but on Windows and Mac, the audio/video sources and sinks are pretty straightforward, albeit not as well tested. We'll be experimenting with getting it to work on Linux and Windows after 2.0.0. Feel free to try messing around with it on OS X and see how it is. -s. |
From: Evan S. <ev...@dr...> - 2007-01-28 01:51:59
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On Jan 27, 2007, at 8:34 PM, Colin Barrett wrote: > I seem to remember reading that Gstreamer's mac > support was fairly weak, and that they had little interest in > improving it. Please, if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. The current GStreamer release, 0.10.11, has this to say about OS X [1]: ---- 23.4. OS X GStreamer provides native video and audio output elements for OS X. It builds using the standard development tools for OS X. ---- what precisely that means bears investigation, but it's significantly more promising than the state of things about a year ago, when discussion seemed to conclude that GStreamer wouldn't build on OS X. -Evan [1] http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/manual/ html/section-integration-osx.html |
From: Colin B. <ti...@la...> - 2007-01-28 02:11:45
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On Jan 27, 2007, at 5:51 PM, Evan Schoenberg wrote: > > On Jan 27, 2007, at 8:34 PM, Colin Barrett wrote: > >> I seem to remember reading that Gstreamer's mac >> support was fairly weak, and that they had little interest in >> improving it. Please, if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. > > The current GStreamer release, 0.10.11, has this to say about OS X > [1]: > ---- > 23.4. OS X > > GStreamer provides native video and audio output elements for OS X. > It builds using the standard development tools for OS X. > > ---- > > what precisely that means bears investigation, but it's > significantly more promising than the state of things about a year > ago, when discussion seemed to conclude that GStreamer wouldn't > build on OS X. > > -Evan > > [1] http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/manual/html/section-integration-osx.html There's also: http://zaheer.merali.org/articles/2006/04/27/osx-audio-with-gstreamer-0-10 and a bunch of other places that lead me to believe 0.10 compiles and runs (I found them by searching for "gstreamer os x" on google, sans quotes). http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Native_Sound_Implementation_on_Mac_OS_X this page, however seems more relevant. If Gstreamer turns out not to work very well on OS X (we will need to do some testing and talk with the Gstreamer guys, probably), I would encourage you guys to at least attempt to abstract things out a little, so we might be able to shoehorn Quicktime in. -Colin |
From: Sean E. <sea...@gm...> - 2007-01-28 11:52:58
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On 1/28/07, Sean Egan <sea...@gm...> wrote: > On 1/28/07, Moritz 'Morty' Str=FCbe <mo...@gm...> wrote: > > Ab bit OT: How does VLC (videolan.org) solve this? At least they have = a lot > > of output-filters for sound and video that work on a bunch of platforms= ?? > > It uses SDL. All VLC needs to do is write to the screen and speakers > as fast as humanly possible. SDL is great for that, but It has no way > of getting images and audio from one computer to another. > > -s. > |