From: Ron B. <rb...@be...> - 2012-09-04 15:24:28
|
Thought I would start a new thread regarding Insteon Developer kits for those of you who are interested in supporting Insteon. Here is the web addr: http://www.smarthome.com/dev-2600s.html it covers "what is included" along with costs and license agreements. I found the license agreement interesting. Anyone interested in moving MH in the direction of Insteon should probably read the license agreement. No I am not a lawyer. www.usefulramblings.org |
From: George F. <fa...@sh...> - 2012-09-04 16:24:10
|
I suggest staying away from this. Basically if you sign this agreement you may not be able to develop any open source software that has the Insteon protocol. On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 11:24 -0400, Ron Blout wrote: > Thought I would start a new thread regarding Insteon Developer kits for > those of you who are interested in supporting Insteon. > > Here is the web addr: http://www.smarthome.com/dev-2600s.html > > it covers "what is included" along with costs and license agreements. I > found the license agreement interesting. Anyone interested in moving MH > in the direction of Insteon should probably read the license agreement. > No I am not a lawyer. > > > > www.usefulramblings.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > |
From: Ron B. <rb...@be...> - 2012-09-04 16:32:51
|
On 09/04/2012 12:23 PM, George Farris wrote: > I suggest staying away from this. Basically if you sign this agreement > you may not be able to develop any open source software that has the > Insteon protocol. I agree, but how are you to develop and open source application supporting Insteon code unless you know the protocol syntax, etc. This is only supplied to you through these development kits. At least this is my understanding. I did find an online Document in PDF format showing Insteon constructs/syntax but it was old and probably does not reflect the current protocol changes. My point is that if anyone is going to code MH for insteon support they are going to have to have a development kit and the licensing restrictions will be an issue. I am not sure it can be done. > > > > > > On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 11:24 -0400, Ron Blout wrote: >> Thought I would start a new thread regarding Insteon Developer kits for >> those of you who are interested in supporting Insteon. >> >> Here is the web addr: http://www.smarthome.com/dev-2600s.html >> >> it covers "what is included" along with costs and license agreements. I >> found the license agreement interesting. Anyone interested in moving MH >> in the direction of Insteon should probably read the license agreement. >> No I am not a lawyer. >> >> >> >> www.usefulramblings.org >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Live Security Virtual Conference >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >> ________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > > -- www.usefulramblings.org |
From: Joel D. <jr...@pr...> - 2012-09-04 16:48:53
|
Has anyone contacted smarthome to see if there's a way to get a non-nda limited copy of the protocol for use with developing an opensource driver? Joel On Tue, 4 Sep 2012, it would appear that Ron Blout wrote: > On 09/04/2012 12:23 PM, George Farris wrote: >> I suggest staying away from this. Basically if you sign this agreement >> you may not be able to develop any open source software that has the >> Insteon protocol. > > I agree, but how are you to develop and open source application > supporting Insteon code unless you know the protocol syntax, etc. This > is only supplied to you through these development kits. At least this > is my understanding. I did find an online Document in PDF format > showing Insteon constructs/syntax but it was old and probably does not > reflect the current protocol changes. > > My point is that if anyone is going to code MH for insteon support they > are going to have to have a development kit and the licensing > restrictions will be an issue. I am not sure it can be done. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 11:24 -0400, Ron Blout wrote: >>> Thought I would start a new thread regarding Insteon Developer kits for >>> those of you who are interested in supporting Insteon. >>> >>> Here is the web addr: http://www.smarthome.com/dev-2600s.html >>> >>> it covers "what is included" along with costs and license agreements. I >>> found the license agreement interesting. Anyone interested in moving MH >>> in the direction of Insteon should probably read the license agreement. >>> No I am not a lawyer. >>> >>> >>> >>> www.usefulramblings.org >>> |
From: Ron B. <rb...@be...> - 2012-09-04 17:02:37
|
On 09/04/2012 12:23 PM, George Farris wrote: > I suggest staying away from this. Basically if you sign this agreement > you may not be able to develop any open source software that has the > Insteon protocol. I agree, but how are you to develop and open source application supporting Insteon code unless you know the protocol syntax, etc. This is only supplied to you through these development kits. At least this is my understanding. I did find an online Document in PDF format showing Insteon constructs/syntax but it was old and probably does not reflect the current protocol changes. My point is that if anyone is going to code MH for insteon support they will need to have a development kit and the licensing restrictions will be an issue. Can an open source project implement a proprietary protocol without being subject to their licensing? I don't think so. > > > > > > On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 11:24 -0400, Ron Blout wrote: >> Thought I would start a new thread regarding Insteon Developer kits for >> those of you who are interested in supporting Insteon. >> >> Here is the web addr: http://www.smarthome.com/dev-2600s.html >> >> it covers "what is included" along with costs and license agreements. I >> found the license agreement interesting. Anyone interested in moving MH >> in the direction of Insteon should probably read the license agreement. >> No I am not a lawyer. >> >> >> >> www.usefulramblings.org >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Live Security Virtual Conference >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >> ________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > > -- www.usefulramblings.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 |
From: George F. <fa...@gm...> - 2012-09-04 17:11:22
|
On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 12:32 -0400, Ron Blout wrote: > On 09/04/2012 12:23 PM, George Farris wrote: > > I suggest staying away from this. Basically if you sign this agreement > > you may not be able to develop any open source software that has the > > Insteon protocol. > > I agree, but how are you to develop and open source application > supporting Insteon code unless you know the protocol syntax, etc. Well essentially this is know as reverse engineering. Yes it takes longer but... George |
From: Ron B. <rb...@be...> - 2012-09-04 18:09:26
|
On 09/04/2012 12:48 PM, Joel Davidson wrote: > Has anyone contacted smarthome to see if there's a way to get a > non-nda limited copy of the protocol for use with developing an > opensource driver? I just emailed Smarthome to inquire. When I get a response I will post it here. Ron > > Joel > > > On Tue, 4 Sep 2012, it would appear that Ron Blout wrote: > >> On 09/04/2012 12:23 PM, George Farris wrote: >>> I suggest staying away from this. Basically if you sign this agreement >>> you may not be able to develop any open source software that has the >>> Insteon protocol. >> >> I agree, but how are you to develop and open source application >> supporting Insteon code unless you know the protocol syntax, etc. This >> is only supplied to you through these development kits. At least this >> is my understanding. I did find an online Document in PDF format >> showing Insteon constructs/syntax but it was old and probably does not >> reflect the current protocol changes. >> >> My point is that if anyone is going to code MH for insteon support they >> are going to have to have a development kit and the licensing >> restrictions will be an issue. I am not sure it can be done. >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 11:24 -0400, Ron Blout wrote: >>>> Thought I would start a new thread regarding Insteon Developer kits for >>>> those of you who are interested in supporting Insteon. >>>> >>>> Here is the web addr: http://www.smarthome.com/dev-2600s.html >>>> >>>> it covers "what is included" along with costs and license agreements. I >>>> found the license agreement interesting. Anyone interested in moving MH >>>> in the direction of Insteon should probably read the license agreement. >>>> No I am not a lawyer. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> www.usefulramblings.org >>>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > > -- www.usefulramblings.org |
From: Ron B. <rb...@be...> - 2012-09-04 18:23:23
|
On 09/04/2012 02:09 PM, Ron Blout wrote: > On 09/04/2012 12:48 PM, Joel Davidson wrote: >> Has anyone contacted smarthome to see if there's a way to get a >> non-nda limited copy of the protocol for use with developing an >> opensource driver? > > > I just emailed Smarthome to inquire. When I get a response I will post > it here. Here is the response I got to my query: > -------cut here------ Ron, Thank you for your response. The developer kit is available to allow you to use your own software or an existing protocol that you are familiar with so it should not be a problem. Sincerely, Danny Fehskens Customer Solutions Center ----cut here------ This response did not really answer the question. It references the "developer kits" which impose licensing restrictions. Maybe someone would like to "inquire". Ron > >> >> Joel >> >> >> On Tue, 4 Sep 2012, it would appear that Ron Blout wrote: >> >>> On 09/04/2012 12:23 PM, George Farris wrote: >>>> I suggest staying away from this. Basically if you sign this agreement >>>> you may not be able to develop any open source software that has the >>>> Insteon protocol. >>> >>> I agree, but how are you to develop and open source application >>> supporting Insteon code unless you know the protocol syntax, etc. This >>> is only supplied to you through these development kits. At least this >>> is my understanding. I did find an online Document in PDF format >>> showing Insteon constructs/syntax but it was old and probably does not >>> reflect the current protocol changes. >>> >>> My point is that if anyone is going to code MH for insteon support they >>> are going to have to have a development kit and the licensing >>> restrictions will be an issue. I am not sure it can be done. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 11:24 -0400, Ron Blout wrote: >>>>> Thought I would start a new thread regarding Insteon Developer kits for >>>>> those of you who are interested in supporting Insteon. >>>>> >>>>> Here is the web addr: http://www.smarthome.com/dev-2600s.html >>>>> >>>>> it covers "what is included" along with costs and license agreements. I >>>>> found the license agreement interesting. Anyone interested in moving MH >>>>> in the direction of Insteon should probably read the license agreement. >>>>> No I am not a lawyer. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> www.usefulramblings.org >>>>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Live Security Virtual Conference >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >> ________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 >> >> > > -- www.usefulramblings.org |
From: George F. <fa...@gm...> - 2012-09-04 18:44:00
|
On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 14:23 -0400, Ron Blout wrote: > On 09/04/2012 02:09 PM, Ron Blout wrote: > > On 09/04/2012 12:48 PM, Joel Davidson wrote: > >> Has anyone contacted smarthome to see if there's a way to get a > >> non-nda limited copy of the protocol for use with developing an > >> opensource driver? > > > > > > I just emailed Smarthome to inquire. When I get a response I will post > > it here. > > Here is the response I got to my query: > > > > > -------cut here------ > Ron, > > Thank you for your response. > > The developer kit is available to allow you to use your own software or > an existing protocol that > you are familiar with so it should not be a problem. > We we already have the existing protocol, what about the I2 protocol? And do they understand that the protocol would essentially be published through the perl code? George |
From: Mark K. <ae...@gm...> - 2012-09-04 18:26:44
|
Okay, I'm not an attorney myself, but I've read over that agreement several times, and although it does prevent me from publishing the development manual on my site, I see nothing that limits my right to publish software code that implements it. The most restrictive part applies to products that I brand with the Insteon logo, which of course I wouldn't do with my code. Which part of it do you feel creates a restriction that would preclude development for open source purposes? --Mark On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 10:11 AM, George Farris <fa...@gm...> wrote: > On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 12:32 -0400, Ron Blout wrote: > > On 09/04/2012 12:23 PM, George Farris wrote: > > > I suggest staying away from this. Basically if you sign this agreement > > > you may not be able to develop any open source software that has the > > > Insteon protocol. > > > > I agree, but how are you to develop and open source application > > supporting Insteon code unless you know the protocol syntax, etc. > > Well essentially this is know as reverse engineering. Yes it takes > longer but... > > > George > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: > http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > > |
From: George F. <fa...@sh...> - 2012-09-04 18:54:49
|
On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 11:00 -0700, Mark Kendrick wrote: > Okay, I'm not an attorney myself, but I've read over that agreement > several times, and although it does prevent me from publishing the > development manual on my site, I see nothing that limits my right to > publish software code that implements it. The most restrictive part > applies to products that I brand with the Insteon logo, which of > course I wouldn't do with my code. > > > Which part of it do you feel creates a restriction that would preclude > development for open source purposes? Well I think clarification of these lines would be helpful. Any rights not expressly granted to you herein are reserved by SMARTLABS. > and this You may not reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile, or translate the Protocol, Firmware, Hardware or Software, except if and to the extent expressly permitted under any applicable law. and this and the DEVELOPMENT TOOLS may not be used for any other purpose, including but not limited to creating, developing, improving or modifying any network technology or environment (or similar function). and this EXPORT/IMPORT LAW ASSURANCES. The DEVELOPMENT TOOLS and their use are subject to the laws and regulations of the US Government. You agree and certify that neither the Protocol, Firmware, Hardware, Software, any technical data received from SMARTLABS, nor the direct product thereof, will be exported, re-exported, or transferred except as authorized and as permitted by the laws and regulations of the United States Government. I'm not a lawyer so I can't answer these questions. George |
From: Ron B. <rb...@be...> - 2012-09-04 18:44:30
|
On 09/04/2012 02:00 PM, Mark Kendrick wrote: > Okay, I'm not an attorney myself, but I've read over that agreement > several times, and although it does prevent me from publishing the > development manual on my site, I see nothing that limits my right to > publish software code that implements it. The most restrictive part > applies to products that I brand with the Insteon logo, which of course > I wouldn't do with my code. > > Which part of it do you feel creates a restriction that would preclude > development for open source purposes? > > > > > --Mark Not sure if you were responding to me or not but my concern is with this paragraph: ---cut here--- You acknowledge and agree that the distribution and commercialization of any product using the INSTEON or INSTEON ENABLED logo developed by you will be subject to (i) successful completion by you of SMARTLABS's designated authentication and compatibility testing processes, (ii) approval by SMARTLABS, and (iii) a separately executed agreement between you and SMARTLABS covering usage of the INSTEON or INSTEON ENABLED logo. ---cut here--- Maybe I am reading too much into "piece". Does this mean that a software package developed by must be "approved" by SMARTLABS as meeting their standards. If so how does that work with an open source product. > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 10:11 AM, George Farris <fa...@gm... > <mailto:fa...@gm...>> wrote: > > On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 12:32 -0400, Ron Blout wrote: > > On 09/04/2012 12:23 PM, George Farris wrote: > > > I suggest staying away from this. Basically if you sign this > agreement > > > you may not be able to develop any open source software that > has the > > > Insteon protocol. > > > > I agree, but how are you to develop and open source application > > supporting Insteon code unless you know the protocol syntax, etc. > > Well essentially this is know as reverse engineering. Yes it takes > longer but... > > > George > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. > Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in > malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: > http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > > > > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > -- www.usefulramblings.org |
From: George F. <fa...@gm...> - 2012-09-04 19:01:41
|
On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 14:44 -0400, Ron Blout wrote: > ---cut here--- > You acknowledge and agree that the distribution and commercialization of > any product using the INSTEON or INSTEON ENABLED logo developed by you > will be subject to (i) successful completion by you of SMARTLABS's > designated authentication and compatibility testing processes, (ii) > approval by SMARTLABS, and (iii) a separately executed agreement between > you and SMARTLABS covering usage of the INSTEON or INSTEON ENABLED logo. > ---cut here--- I think this only comes into play if you sell software that has Insteon support and you want to use the logo. |
From: Alan W. <arw...@we...> - 2012-09-04 21:06:25
|
Let's get a team of 8 of us to pony in $25.00 each, we will be a development group. For a couple more dollars we could make a Delaware LLC for an extra layer :) Alan On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:01 PM, George Farris <fa...@gm...> wrote: > On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 14:44 -0400, Ron Blout wrote: > >> ---cut here--- >> You acknowledge and agree that the distribution and commercialization of >> any product using the INSTEON or INSTEON ENABLED logo developed by you >> will be subject to (i) successful completion by you of SMARTLABS's >> designated authentication and compatibility testing processes, (ii) >> approval by SMARTLABS, and (iii) a separately executed agreement between >> you and SMARTLABS covering usage of the INSTEON or INSTEON ENABLED logo. >> ---cut here--- > > I think this only comes into play if you sell software that has Insteon > support and you want to use the logo. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > |
From: Marc M. <ma...@me...> - 2012-09-04 22:14:21
|
+Gregg On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 11:00:21AM -0700, Mark Kendrick wrote: > Okay, I'm not an attorney myself, but I've read over that agreement several > times, and although it does prevent me from publishing the development > manual on my site, I see nothing that limits my right to publish software > code that implements it. The most restrictive part applies to products that > I brand with the Insteon logo, which of course I wouldn't do with my code. > > Which part of it do you feel creates a restriction that would preclude > development for open source purposes? I'm pretty sure it's not their intent and I think this is how Gregg wrote his code. Smarthome is not a bunch of idiots that go around suing people who wrote open source code to use the hardware they sell. In other words, it sucks that they charge for the info, but they suing over some license agreement is not going to happen. In the very worst case, they would send a cease and desist, which again they won't do because it's utterly stupid. If Gregg doesn't have the current docs, I'm fine putting money into the pool to get the current developer kit too. Marc -- "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R. Microsoft is to operating systems .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ |
From: Garry D. <gar...@sh...> - 2012-09-04 22:29:42
|
Hi Guys I've enjoyed using Misterhouse for many years and really appreciate the efforts of those responsible and the friendly and helpful community here. I don't have the skills to contribute in any meaningful way to coding in Misterhouse. But, I'd be more than willing to make a financial contribution toward the developer kit. Regards, Garry -----Original Message----- From: Marc MERLIN [mailto:ma...@me...] Sent: Tuesday, Sep 4, 2012 3:14 PM To: ae...@gm...; The main list for the MisterHouse home automation program Cc: Gregg Liming Subject: Re: [mh] Link to insteon developer kits. +Gregg On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 11:00:21AM -0700, Mark Kendrick wrote: > Okay, I'm not an attorney myself, but I've read over that agreement > several times, and although it does prevent me from publishing the > development manual on my site, I see nothing that limits my right to > publish software code that implements it. The most restrictive part > applies to products that I brand with the Insteon logo, which of course I wouldn't do with my code. > > Which part of it do you feel creates a restriction that would preclude > development for open source purposes? I'm pretty sure it's not their intent and I think this is how Gregg wrote his code. Smarthome is not a bunch of idiots that go around suing people who wrote open source code to use the hardware they sell. In other words, it sucks that they charge for the info, but they suing over some license agreement is not going to happen. In the very worst case, they would send a cease and desist, which again they won't do because it's utterly stupid. If Gregg doesn't have the current docs, I'm fine putting money into the pool to get the current developer kit too. Marc -- "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R. Microsoft is to operating systems .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 |
From: Raleigh A. <tw...@mu...> - 2012-09-05 16:23:55
|
I'm with Garry. -- Raleigh Apple tw...@mu... Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Garry Doucette <gar...@sh...>wrote: > Hi Guys > > I've enjoyed using Misterhouse for many years and really appreciate the > efforts of those responsible and the friendly and helpful community here. > > I don't have the skills to contribute in any meaningful way to coding in > Misterhouse. But, I'd be more than willing to make a financial contribution > toward the developer kit. > T > Regards, > > Garry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Marc MERLIN [mailto:ma...@me...] > Sent: Tuesday, Sep 4, 2012 3:14 PM > To: ae...@gm...; The main list for the MisterHouse home automation > program > Cc: Gregg Liming > Subject: Re: [mh] Link to insteon developer kits. > > +Gregg > > On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 11:00:21AM -0700, Mark Kendrick wrote: > > Okay, I'm not an attorney myself, but I've read over that agreement > > several times, and although it does prevent me from publishing the > > development manual on my site, I see nothing that limits my right to > > publish software code that implements it. The most restrictive part > > applies to products that I brand with the Insteon logo, which of course I > wouldn't do with my code. > > > > Which part of it do you feel creates a restriction that would preclude > > development for open source purposes? > > I'm pretty sure it's not their intent and I think this is how Gregg wrote > his code. > Smarthome is not a bunch of idiots that go around suing people who wrote > open source code to use the hardware they sell. > > In other words, it sucks that they charge for the info, but they suing over > some license agreement is not going to happen. In the very worst case, they > would send a cease and desist, which again they won't do because it's > utterly stupid. > > If Gregg doesn't have the current docs, I'm fine putting money into the > pool > to get the current developer kit too. > > Marc > -- > "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - > A.S.R. > Microsoft is to operating systems .... > .... what McDonalds is to gourmet > cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > T---------- > -- > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat > landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will > include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: > http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: > http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > > |
From: Carl F. <fri...@co...> - 2012-09-05 15:58:14
|
Hi Gary & the list, Me too. If this comes to fruition, I might even by an Insteon starter kit (if there is such a thing). :-) Carl Friedberg www.comets.com car...@co... http://about.me/carl.friedberg -----Original Message----- From: Garry Doucette [mailto:gar...@sh...] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:29 PM To: 'The main list for the MisterHouse home automation program' Subject: Re: [mh] Link to insteon developer kits. Hi Guys I've enjoyed using Misterhouse for many years and really appreciate the efforts of those responsible and the friendly and helpful community here. I don't have the skills to contribute in any meaningful way to coding in Misterhouse. But, I'd be more than willing to make a financial contribution toward the developer kit. Regards, Garry -----Original Message----- From: Marc MERLIN [mailto:ma...@me...] Sent: Tuesday, Sep 4, 2012 3:14 PM To: ae...@gm...; The main list for the MisterHouse home automation program Cc: Gregg Liming Subject: Re: [mh] Link to insteon developer kits. +Gregg On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 11:00:21AM -0700, Mark Kendrick wrote: > Okay, I'm not an attorney myself, but I've read over that agreement > several times, and although it does prevent me from publishing the > development manual on my site, I see nothing that limits my right to > publish software code that implements it. The most restrictive part > applies to products that I brand with the Insteon logo, which of course I wouldn't do with my code. > > Which part of it do you feel creates a restriction that would preclude > development for open source purposes? I'm pretty sure it's not their intent and I think this is how Gregg wrote his code. Smarthome is not a bunch of idiots that go around suing people who wrote open source code to use the hardware they sell. In other words, it sucks that they charge for the info, but they suing over some license agreement is not going to happen. In the very worst case, they would send a cease and desist, which again they won't do because it's utterly stupid. If Gregg doesn't have the current docs, I'm fine putting money into the pool to get the current developer kit too. Marc -- "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R. Microsoft is to operating systems .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 |
From: Mark K. <ae...@gm...> - 2012-09-05 16:11:18
|
I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but if you read that agreement carefully, it seems to be written toward an individual, not a group. Someone should check with Smarthome before you get too fired up about this. I doubt they would permit it (they do have to approve each person's access), and even if they said they would, I'd want to get an updated agreement from them explicitly allowing it. Besides, even if you did get it through, you could never share anything with the list without being in violation of the publishing provisions in the agreement. Overall, I think it's a non-starter. --Mark On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Carl Friedberg <fri...@co...> wrote: > Hi Gary & the list, > > Me too. If this comes to fruition, I might even by an Insteon > starter kit (if there is such a thing). :-) > > Carl Friedberg > www.comets.com > car...@co... > http://about.me/carl.friedberg > -----Original Message----- > From: Garry Doucette [mailto:gar...@sh...] > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:29 PM > To: 'The main list for the MisterHouse home automation program' > Subject: Re: [mh] Link to insteon developer kits. > > Hi Guys > > I've enjoyed using Misterhouse for many years and really appreciate the > efforts of those responsible and the friendly and helpful community here. > > I don't have the skills to contribute in any meaningful way to coding in > Misterhouse. But, I'd be more than willing to make a financial contribution > toward the developer kit. > > Regards, > > Garry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Marc MERLIN [mailto:ma...@me...] > Sent: Tuesday, Sep 4, 2012 3:14 PM > To: ae...@gm...; The main list for the MisterHouse home automation > program > Cc: Gregg Liming > Subject: Re: [mh] Link to insteon developer kits. > > +Gregg > > On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 11:00:21AM -0700, Mark Kendrick wrote: > > Okay, I'm not an attorney myself, but I've read over that agreement > > several times, and although it does prevent me from publishing the > > development manual on my site, I see nothing that limits my right to > > publish software code that implements it. The most restrictive part > > applies to products that I brand with the Insteon logo, which of course I > wouldn't do with my code. > > > > Which part of it do you feel creates a restriction that would preclude > > development for open source purposes? > > I'm pretty sure it's not their intent and I think this is how Gregg wrote > his code. > Smarthome is not a bunch of idiots that go around suing people who wrote > open source code to use the hardware they sell. > > In other words, it sucks that they charge for the info, but they suing over > some license agreement is not going to happen. In the very worst case, they > would send a cease and desist, which again they won't do because it's > utterly stupid. > > If Gregg doesn't have the current docs, I'm fine putting money into the > pool > to get the current developer kit too. > > Marc > -- > "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - > A.S.R. > Microsoft is to operating systems .... > .... what McDonalds is to gourmet > cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat > landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will > include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: > http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: > http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: > http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > > |
From: Ron B. <rb...@be...> - 2012-09-05 21:35:14
|
On 09/05/2012 12:11 PM, Mark Kendrick wrote: > I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but if you read that agreement > carefully, it seems to be written toward an individual, not a group. > Someone should check with Smarthome before you get too fired up about > this. I doubt they would permit it (they do have to approve each > person's access), and even if they said they would, I'd want to get an > updated agreement from them explicitly allowing it. Mark, I would agree. The kit is not transferable/shareable. When you buy it you register with their support group. This kit cannot be "bought by many and shared with many". Each person would have to buy their own copy. Ron > > Besides, even if you did get it through, you could never share anything > with the list without being in violation of the publishing provisions in > the agreement. Overall, I think it's a non-starter. > > > --Mark > > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Carl Friedberg <fri...@co... > <mailto:fri...@co...>> wrote: > > Hi Gary & the list, > > Me too. If this comes to fruition, I might even by an Insteon > starter kit (if there is such a thing). :-) > > Carl Friedberg > www.comets.com <http://www.comets.com> > car...@co... <mailto:car...@co...> > http://about.me/carl.friedberg > -----Original Message----- > From: Garry Doucette [mailto:gar...@sh... > <mailto:gar...@sh...>] > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:29 PM > To: 'The main list for the MisterHouse home automation program' > Subject: Re: [mh] Link to insteon developer kits. > > Hi Guys > > I've enjoyed using Misterhouse for many years and really appreciate the > efforts of those responsible and the friendly and helpful community > here. > > I don't have the skills to contribute in any meaningful way to coding in > Misterhouse. But, I'd be more than willing to make a financial > contribution > toward the developer kit. > > Regards, > > Garry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Marc MERLIN [mailto:ma...@me... > <mailto:ma...@me...>] > Sent: Tuesday, Sep 4, 2012 3:14 PM > To: ae...@gm... <mailto:ae...@gm...>; The main list for > the MisterHouse home automation > program > Cc: Gregg Liming > Subject: Re: [mh] Link to insteon developer kits. > > +Gregg > > On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 11:00:21AM -0700, Mark Kendrick wrote: > > Okay, I'm not an attorney myself, but I've read over that agreement > > several times, and although it does prevent me from publishing the > > development manual on my site, I see nothing that limits my right to > > publish software code that implements it. The most restrictive part > > applies to products that I brand with the Insteon logo, which of > course I > wouldn't do with my code. > > > > Which part of it do you feel creates a restriction that would > preclude > > development for open source purposes? > > I'm pretty sure it's not their intent and I think this is how Gregg > wrote > his code. > Smarthome is not a bunch of idiots that go around suing people who wrote > open source code to use the hardware they sell. > > In other words, it sucks that they charge for the info, but they > suing over > some license agreement is not going to happen. In the very worst > case, they > would send a cease and desist, which again they won't do because it's > utterly stupid. > > If Gregg doesn't have the current docs, I'm fine putting money into > the pool > to get the current developer kit too. > > Marc > -- > "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - > A.S.R. > Microsoft is to operating systems .... > .... what McDonalds is to gourmet > cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat > landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will > include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: > http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. > Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in > malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: > http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. > Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in > malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: > http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > > > > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > -- www.usefulramblings.org |
From: Gregg L. <gr...@li...> - 2012-09-05 16:15:56
|
Hi Marc and list, On 9/4/2012 6:14 PM, Marc MERLIN wrote: > +Gregg > > On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 11:00:21AM -0700, Mark Kendrick wrote: >> Okay, I'm not an attorney myself, but I've read over that agreement several >> times, and although it does prevent me from publishing the development >> manual on my site, I see nothing that limits my right to publish software >> code that implements it. The most restrictive part applies to products that >> I brand with the Insteon logo, which of course I wouldn't do with my code. >> >> Which part of it do you feel creates a restriction that would preclude >> development for open source purposes? > > I'm pretty sure it's not their intent and I think this is how Gregg wrote > his code. The majority of the code that is specific to any Insteon documentation was based off of the PLM documents--which is made available publicly. Jason's original code relied purely on this doc. The only thing that I can think of that required reading their dev guide was specific retry timing (which only exists in the branch) and the flag meaning returned in the Insteon message flag byte. So, it's a very small amount that relies on documentation that was found in the dev guide. It would be a rather tall order to expect someone to scrutinize all of the code sufficient to make some sort of linkage to protected documentation. There's a fair number of operations and settings that are based on other sources--such as forums and anecdotal testing. > Smarthome is not a bunch of idiots that go around suing people who wrote > open source code to use the hardware they sell. And, especially since the nature of the code would make trying to figure anything about the insteon protocol extremely difficult. In other words, the code is structured around our purposes which has very little to do with documenting the insteon protocol. > In other words, it sucks that they charge for the info, but they suing over > some license agreement is not going to happen. In the very worst case, they > would send a cease and desist, which again they won't do because it's > utterly stupid. > > If Gregg doesn't have the current docs, I'm fine putting money into the pool > to get the current developer kit too. The bigger issue is my finding time to work on what I already know rather than look for the latest docs. What I have (the PLM documentation) does cover i2 info. I just checked and I still have access to the same developer website. Gregg |
From: Marc M. <ma...@me...> - 2012-09-05 16:44:02
|
On Wed, Sep 05, 2012 at 11:52:11AM -0400, Gregg Liming wrote: > The majority of the code that is specific to any Insteon documentation > was based off of the PLM documents--which is made available publicly. > Jason's original code relied purely on this doc. The only thing that I > can think of that required reading their dev guide was specific retry > timing (which only exists in the branch) and the flag meaning returned > in the Insteon message flag byte. So, it's a very small amount that > relies on documentation that was found in the dev guide. It would be a > rather tall order to expect someone to scrutinize all of the code > sufficient to make some sort of linkage to protected documentation. > > There's a fair number of operations and settings that are based on other > sources--such as forums and anecdotal testing. I see, thanks for explaining that. I wasn't aware that you didn't have a full free doc to work with originally, but it sounds like the SDK isn't the biggest problem either. > > If Gregg doesn't have the current docs, I'm fine putting money into the pool > > to get the current developer kit too. > > The bigger issue is my finding time to work on what I already know > rather than look for the latest docs. What I have (the PLM I knew that you didn't have time yourself, and unfortunately neither do I for now, but that was for others who hopefully would like to look at this themselves. > documentation) does cover i2 info. I just checked and I still have > access to the same developer website. Would you be able to post links to what you do have, or if it's not online, mail it to me and I'll put it online on the misterhouse wiki so that others, if any :), can have a chance to look at that. Thanks, Marc -- "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R. Microsoft is to operating systems .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ |
From: Gregg L. <gr...@li...> - 2012-09-06 14:35:01
|
Hi Marc, On 9/5/2012 12:43 PM, Marc MERLIN wrote: > Would you be able to post links to what you do have, or if it's not online, > mail it to me and I'll put it online on the misterhouse wiki so that others, > if any :), can have a chance to look at that. The most important reference document that appears not to have changed (despite the date) is the PLM developer's guide hosted here: http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/2412sdevguide.pdf There's also a dated list of command tables here: http://www.insteon.net/pdf/INSTEON_Command_Tables_20070925a.pdf Possibly, this (which may not be endorsed/ok'd by SH) might be more recent: http://www.madreporite.com/insteon/commands.htm Gregg |
From: Marc M. <ma...@me...> - 2012-09-12 01:53:15
|
On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 10:34:47AM -0400, Gregg Liming wrote: > Hi Marc, > > On 9/5/2012 12:43 PM, Marc MERLIN wrote: > > > Would you be able to post links to what you do have, or if it's not online, > > mail it to me and I'll put it online on the misterhouse wiki so that others, > > if any :), can have a chance to look at that. > > The most important reference document that appears not to have changed > (despite the date) is the PLM developer's guide hosted here: > > http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/2412sdevguide.pdf > > There's also a dated list of command tables here: > > http://www.insteon.net/pdf/INSTEON_Command_Tables_20070925a.pdf > > Possibly, this (which may not be endorsed/ok'd by SH) might be more recent: > > http://www.madreporite.com/insteon/commands.htm Thank you, I have updated http://misterhouse.wikispaces.com/Insteon+Redux accordingly. Marc -- "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R. Microsoft is to operating systems .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ |
From: Greg M. <ha...@ga...> - 2012-09-04 22:36:41
|
I'd be willing to pitch in some $$ to buy the kit for the group. Greg On 2012-09-04 10:24 AM, Ron Blout wrote: > Thought I would start a new thread regarding Insteon Developer kits for > those of you who are interested in supporting Insteon. > > Here is the web addr: http://www.smarthome.com/dev-2600s.html > > it covers "what is included" along with costs and license agreements. I > found the license agreement interesting. Anyone interested in moving MH > in the direction of Insteon should probably read the license agreement. > No I am not a lawyer. > > > > www.usefulramblings.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > |