From: Petr M. <pet...@ti...> - 2005-04-26 18:52:57
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Hi all. First of all, thanks to all developers for nice work. I have started using MusE few days ago and so far everything works as expected. The whole MusE looks very well thought out and promising. However, recently I've got confused by Snap to grid and Quantize controls in the piano roll and the drumeditor. From my tests and from sources I concluded: * Snap to grid adjusts grid resolution to which note starts are aligned - this is what I expected and works fine, * Quantize is used as a note length when drawing new notes in the piano roll - this is not so obvious but seems logical, but * grid lines are drawn using setting from Quantize - this is confusing as notes are actually snapped to grid I cannot see. It is especially confusing in the drum editor, where Quantize apparently does not have any other function. * none of the quantize operation from the Functions menu actually uses Quantize setting - quantization is performed with the value from Snap control. So my question is - how do you think these controls should really work? I have few suggestions: - draw grids using Snap value, - hide Quantize in the drum editor until it gets some real function, - maybe rename Quantize in the piano roll to something else which does not have any connection with quantization operations in the Functions menu (but I am not sure about this one). What do you think? Greets. Petr Mazanec |
From: Mathias L. <mat...@br...> - 2005-04-26 20:25:46
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Hi Petr! Thanks for the bugreports/patch. tis 2005-04-26 klockan 20.52 skrev Petr Mazanec: > Hi all. > > First of all, thanks to all developers for nice work. I have started > using MusE few days ago and so far everything works as expected. The > whole MusE looks very well thought out and promising. > > However, recently I've got confused by Snap to grid and Quantize > controls in the piano roll and the drumeditor. From my tests and from > sources I concluded: > Good points, when you've used it some time you get too used to the bugs, and start to really think about what you're doing and how things should actually work... I almost always change the values by pressing the shortcuts (number 1-8 I think, + the "." and ",") and those change both snap and quantize at the same time, so you never notice this problem. > * Snap to grid adjusts grid resolution to which note starts are aligned > - this is what I expected and works fine, > > * Quantize is used as a note length when drawing new notes in the piano > roll - this is not so obvious but seems logical, > > but > > * grid lines are drawn using setting from Quantize - this is confusing > as notes are actually snapped to grid I cannot see. It is especially > confusing in the drum editor, where Quantize apparently does not have > any other function. > Sounds like this should be categorized as a bug, unless I'm missing something. > * none of the quantize operation from the Functions menu actually uses > Quantize setting - quantization is performed with the value from Snap > control. > Should also be a bug IMHO. > So my question is - how do you think these controls should really work? > > I have few suggestions: > > - draw grids using Snap value, > > - hide Quantize in the drum editor until it gets some real function, > > - maybe rename Quantize in the piano roll to something else which does > not have any connection with quantization operations in the Functions > menu (but I am not sure about this one). > Perhaps better to have it connected to the snap-value instead... (when drawing) and use the quantize-value for quantize (instead of snap). > What do you think? > I'm glad you spotted it, I've become too blind over time. :) About the drumeditor, I've always thought of: 1) Implementing quantize in it 2) Make it possible to quantize all drums to the value of the quantize 3) Also make it possible to quantize everything according to the values in the drummap, so all instruments are treated with their individual quantize (perhaps that's overkill, but it wouldn't add much to the difficulty since values are already in there). About quantize overall, perhaps there shouldn't be any visible quantize-dropdowns but instead a more advanced quantize where it would be possible to f.ex. use "magnetic areas", some kind of groove-functions etc etc..? /Mathias > > Greets. > > Petr Mazanec > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tell us your software development plans! > Take this survey and enter to win a one-year sub to SourceForge.net > Plus IDC's 2005 look-ahead and a copy of this survey > Click here to start! http://www.idcswdc.com/cgi-bin/survey?id=105hix > _______________________________________________ > Lmuse-user mailing list > Lmu...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lmuse-user |
From: Mathias L. <mat...@br...> - 2005-04-26 20:37:10
|
tis 2005-04-26 klockan 22.25 skrev Mathias Lundgren: > Hi Petr! > > Thanks for the bugreports/patch. > > tis 2005-04-26 klockan 20.52 skrev Petr Mazanec: > > Hi all. > > > > First of all, thanks to all developers for nice work. I have started > > using MusE few days ago and so far everything works as expected. The > > whole MusE looks very well thought out and promising. > > > > However, recently I've got confused by Snap to grid and Quantize > > controls in the piano roll and the drumeditor. From my tests and from > > sources I concluded: > > > > Good points, when you've used it some time you get too used to the bugs, > and start to really think about what you're doing and how things should > actually work... I almost always change the values by pressing the > shortcuts (number 1-8 I think, + the "." and ",") and those change both > snap and quantize at the same time, so you never notice this problem. > Err, correcting myself... Of course I mean that after you've used it some time you get too used to the bugs and _stop_ thinking about what exactly you're doing, or how things should actually work. Too quick on the send-keys... /Mathias |
From: Petr M. <pet...@ti...> - 2005-04-29 18:32:08
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Hi Mathias! Mathias Lundgren wrote: >>* grid lines are drawn using setting from Quantize - this is confusing >>as notes are actually snapped to grid I cannot see. It is especially >>confusing in the drum editor, where Quantize apparently does not have >>any other function. >> > > > Sounds like this should be categorized as a bug, unless I'm missing > something. > > >>* none of the quantize operation from the Functions menu actually uses >>Quantize setting - quantization is performed with the value from Snap >>control. >> > > > Should also be a bug IMHO. > I agree. > >>So my question is - how do you think these controls should really work? >> >>I have few suggestions: >> >>- draw grids using Snap value, >> >>- hide Quantize in the drum editor until it gets some real function, >> >>- maybe rename Quantize in the piano roll to something else which does >>not have any connection with quantization operations in the Functions >>menu (but I am not sure about this one). >> > > > Perhaps better to have it connected to the snap-value instead... (when > drawing) and use the quantize-value for quantize (instead of snap). > Great! I think this is a way how it could work. Snap-value for the grid and all drawing operations and quantize-value for quantize. Probably I can file a bug in the bug-tracker, or better, if you are interested, I can give it a try and send a patch (maybe number of patches to keep changes at manageable level). > > About the drumeditor, I've always thought of: > > 1) Implementing quantize in it > 2) Make it possible to quantize all drums to the value of the quantize > 3) Also make it possible to quantize everything according to the values > in the drummap, so all instruments are treated with their individual > quantize (perhaps that's overkill, but it wouldn't add much to the > difficulty since values are already in there). > This would be really useful for recorded drum parts and should not be too difficult to implement as I guess from the sources. > About quantize overall, perhaps there shouldn't be any visible > quantize-dropdowns but instead a more advanced quantize where it would > be possible to f.ex. use "magnetic areas", some kind of groove-functions > etc etc..? > > /Mathias > Also interesting - groove-quantize with defineable groove-maps, humanize-functions etc... But I think this is a bit long shot and would be much more work to do it right and useful. Maybe in some future version? 0.8 or 0.9? Regards. Petr Mazanec |
From: Mathias L. <mat...@br...> - 2005-04-30 09:27:46
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fre 2005-04-29 klockan 20.32 skrev Petr Mazanec: > Hi Mathias! > > Mathias Lundgren wrote: > >>* grid lines are drawn using setting from Quantize - this is confusing > >>as notes are actually snapped to grid I cannot see. It is especially > >>confusing in the drum editor, where Quantize apparently does not have > >>any other function. > >> > > > > > > Sounds like this should be categorized as a bug, unless I'm missing > > something. > > > > > >>* none of the quantize operation from the Functions menu actually uses > >>Quantize setting - quantization is performed with the value from Snap > >>control. > >> > > > > > > Should also be a bug IMHO. > > > > I agree. > > > > >>So my question is - how do you think these controls should really work? > >> > >>I have few suggestions: > >> > >>- draw grids using Snap value, > >> > >>- hide Quantize in the drum editor until it gets some real function, > >> > >>- maybe rename Quantize in the piano roll to something else which does > >>not have any connection with quantization operations in the Functions > >>menu (but I am not sure about this one). > >> > > > > > > Perhaps better to have it connected to the snap-value instead... (when > > drawing) and use the quantize-value for quantize (instead of snap). > > > > Great! I think this is a way how it could work. Snap-value for the grid > and all drawing operations and quantize-value for quantize. > > Probably I can file a bug in the bug-tracker, or better, if you are > interested, I can give it a try and send a patch (maybe number of > patches to keep changes at manageable level). > Contributions are of welcome, of course. > > > > About the drumeditor, I've always thought of: > > > > 1) Implementing quantize in it > > 2) Make it possible to quantize all drums to the value of the quantize > > 3) Also make it possible to quantize everything according to the values > > in the drummap, so all instruments are treated with their individual > > quantize (perhaps that's overkill, but it wouldn't add much to the > > difficulty since values are already in there). > > > > This would be really useful for recorded drum parts and should not be > too difficult to implement as I guess from the sources. > The only thing that is different is that when applying that kind of quantize in the drumeditor you would simply grab the quantize values from the drummap. > > About quantize overall, perhaps there shouldn't be any visible > > quantize-dropdowns but instead a more advanced quantize where it would > > be possible to f.ex. use "magnetic areas", some kind of groove-functions > > etc etc..? > > > > /Mathias > > > > Also interesting - groove-quantize with defineable groove-maps, > humanize-functions etc... But I think this is a bit long shot and would > be much more work to do it right and useful. Maybe in some future > version? 0.8 or 0.9? > > Regards. > > Petr Mazanec > > Yes, this is in the future. But it would be useful. /Mathias |