From: Tom W. <to...@ss...> - 2003-08-27 15:10:17
|
> I am planning to write an application in Jython. The app will be run > from the user's machine (not over a network) and will use both a > database accessed across the network and local files and databases. > > I would like to use a browser-based UI. Should I just use a swing > applet? What is the current practice for this sort of thing? I recommend against using a browser-based UI. If you don't have any control over your target users' configuration or platform, then you should not use Swing. Why? IE's java runtime does not support it, and the users whould have to install the JavaPlugIn. Furthermore, if they are running on Win2K or WinXp, then they would have to have Admin Privleges to do this for JRE versions > 1.3 [I sure hope Sun fixes this...]. In addition, RedHat Linux apparetnly defaults to Netscape 4.x which uses Netscape's very own JRE (based on 1.1.5) which does not have Swing. You could use the jfc JAR file, but it's a 1MB download the last time I looked. Second issue is that even when an applet is run on the local machine through the browser, it is still quite likely it will not be able to access remote data bases (and local files) without signing it. If you are just trying to avoid having the end users install the java runtime, I would suggested using InstallAnywhere's free version, and bundling JRE 1.3.1 (do NOT use 1.4.0 or 1.4.1 with applets...lots of problems) with your application. Your Windoz users do not have to have Admin privleges to install the runtime this way. With an application, your worries are over! Well, most of them, anyway... tom -- Tom Whittaker (to...@ss...) University of Wisconsin-Madison Space Science and Engineering Center Cooperative Institute for Meteorological Satellite Studies Phone/VoiceMail: 608.262.2759 |
From: Tom W. <to...@ss...> - 2003-08-28 15:30:38
|
Hi George: > I am still not clear on what tools to use to build the (non-Browser > Based) UI if I proceed with Jython. Jython is an excellent development and end-user environment, coupled with either AWT or Swing in an application. It is soooo much easier & faster than Java to create usable code, and since you can provide your end users with the ability to easily extend your work, either directly or with some kind of built-in (Python) scripting, it is very powerful. If you're talking about a few thousand lines of code-type applications, I really would go this way. The main advantage of Swing in my opinion is that you can better predict layout and appearance on different platforms. There are also lots more widgets and options to choose from ;-) In AWT, you get whatever the native widgets are...and they don't always fit (Macs seem to create notoriously big widgets, for example) even when you try to force the sizes. Hence, if you're going to supply an application and a runtime environment, I'd use Jython-on-top-of-Swing. > > Based on your comments, I wonder if it is worth it to just implement my > application in CPython with a tkinter UI and escape most of the > complications you mention below. If you don't try to imbed your application in a browser (as an "applet") you won't really have most of the issues. I think you'd have similar installation issues either way unless you can control your end users' environemnts. For example, I don't have CPython on my machine -- would you be delivering that for my OS?. We've had great success with InstallAnywhere from ZeroG (the free version ;-). It allows you to send along the JRE for the target environment, if desired. This has been most helpful for applications to be used by non-techies. Good luck! tom -- Tom Whittaker (to...@ss...) University of Wisconsin-Madison Space Science and Engineering Center Cooperative Institute for Meteorological Satellite Studies Phone/VoiceMail: 608.262.2759 |
From: George H. <ghe...@cf...> - 2003-08-28 14:27:00
|
Thanks Tom for the thoughtful reply. Because UIs are not my usual bag <:-| , I just didn't have an idea on how to proceed... and I'm still wondering ;-) . I am still not clear on what tools to use to build the (non-Browser Based) UI if I proceed with Jython. Based on your comments, I wonder if it is worth it to just implement my application in CPython with a tkinter UI and escape most of the complications you mention below. Thanks again, George Tom Whittaker wrote: >> I am planning to write an application in Jython. The app will be run >> from the user's machine (not over a network) and will use both a >> database accessed across the network and local files and databases. >> >> I would like to use a browser-based UI. Should I just use a swing >> applet? What is the current practice for this sort of thing? > > > I recommend against using a browser-based UI. > > If you don't have any control over your target users' configuration or > platform, then you should not use Swing. Why? IE's java runtime does > not support it, and the users whould have to install the JavaPlugIn. > Furthermore, if they are running on Win2K or WinXp, then they would have > to have Admin Privleges to do this for JRE versions > 1.3 [I sure hope > Sun fixes this...]. > > In addition, RedHat Linux apparetnly defaults to Netscape 4.x which uses > Netscape's very own JRE (based on 1.1.5) which does not have Swing. You > could use the jfc JAR file, but it's a 1MB download the last time I looked. > > Second issue is that even when an applet is run on the local machine > through the browser, it is still quite likely it will not be able to > access remote data bases (and local files) without signing it. If you > are just trying to avoid having the end users install the java runtime, > I would suggested using InstallAnywhere's free version, and bundling JRE > 1.3.1 (do NOT use 1.4.0 or 1.4.1 with applets...lots of problems) with > your application. Your Windoz users do not have to have Admin privleges > to install the runtime this way. > > With an application, your worries are over! Well, most of them, anyway... > > tom > |
From: Tom A. <tw...@po...> - 2003-08-28 18:23:53
|
George, I'm am Jython beginner but I can recommend Swing based GUI loaded via webstart. Your target audience will have to have the java run time installed but after that things do 'just work' (well, most of the time anyway). You get get a very painless install, a free update service (update the server and all your users get the new version the next time they start up) and your users have a rich client with all the benefits. Also Swing is a pleasure to code in Jython. Cheers Tom (a different one) George Herbert wrote: > Thanks Tom for the thoughtful reply. > > Because UIs are not my usual bag <:-| , I just didn't have an idea on > how to proceed... and I'm still wondering ;-) . > > I am still not clear on what tools to use to build the (non-Browser > Based) UI if I proceed with Jython. > > Based on your comments, I wonder if it is worth it to just implement > my application in CPython with a tkinter UI and escape most of the > complications you mention below. > > Thanks again, > > George > > > Tom Whittaker wrote: > >>> I am planning to write an application in Jython. The app will be >>> run from the user's machine (not over a network) and will use both a >>> database accessed across the network and local files and databases. >>> >>> I would like to use a browser-based UI. Should I just use a swing >>> applet? What is the current practice for this sort of thing? >> >> >> >> I recommend against using a browser-based UI. >> >> If you don't have any control over your target users' configuration >> or platform, then you should not use Swing. Why? IE's java runtime >> does not support it, and the users whould have to install the >> JavaPlugIn. Furthermore, if they are running on Win2K or WinXp, then >> they would have to have Admin Privleges to do this for JRE versions > >> 1.3 [I sure hope Sun fixes this...]. >> >> In addition, RedHat Linux apparetnly defaults to Netscape 4.x which >> uses Netscape's very own JRE (based on 1.1.5) which does not have >> Swing. You could use the jfc JAR file, but it's a 1MB download the >> last time I looked. >> >> Second issue is that even when an applet is run on the local machine >> through the browser, it is still quite likely it will not be able to >> access remote data bases (and local files) without signing it. If >> you are just trying to avoid having the end users install the java >> runtime, I would suggested using InstallAnywhere's free version, and >> bundling JRE 1.3.1 (do NOT use 1.4.0 or 1.4.1 with applets...lots of >> problems) with your application. Your Windoz users do not have to >> have Admin privleges to install the runtime this way. >> >> With an application, your worries are over! Well, most of them, >> anyway... >> >> tom >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > Jython-users mailing list > Jyt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-users > |
From: Aaron H. <aaron@MetroNY.com> - 2003-08-28 19:57:07
|
You may want to use HTML for some parts of the display and swing for others. You can embed an HTML viewer in a Swing app. Take a look at the xwWindows example: http://wxwindows.org/images/screens/screen_sdd_xp.gif -Aaron Held Tom Ayerst wrote: > George, > > I'm am Jython beginner but I can recommend Swing based GUI loaded via > webstart. Your target audience will have to have the java run time > installed but after that things do 'just work' (well, most of the time > anyway). You get get a very painless install, a free update service > (update the server and all your users get the new version the next > time they start up) and your users have a rich client with all the > benefits. > Also Swing is a pleasure to code in Jython. > > Cheers > > Tom (a different one) > > George Herbert wrote: > >> Thanks Tom for the thoughtful reply. >> >> Because UIs are not my usual bag <:-| , I just didn't have an idea on >> how to proceed... and I'm still wondering ;-) . >> >> I am still not clear on what tools to use to build the (non-Browser >> Based) UI if I proceed with Jython. >> >> Based on your comments, I wonder if it is worth it to just implement >> my application in CPython with a tkinter UI and escape most of the >> complications you mention below. >> >> Thanks again, >> >> George >> >> >> Tom Whittaker wrote: >> >>>> I am planning to write an application in Jython. The app will be >>>> run from the user's machine (not over a network) and will use both >>>> a database accessed across the network and local files and databases. >>>> >>>> I would like to use a browser-based UI. Should I just use a swing >>>> applet? What is the current practice for this sort of thing? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I recommend against using a browser-based UI. >>> >>> If you don't have any control over your target users' configuration >>> or platform, then you should not use Swing. Why? IE's java runtime >>> does not support it, and the users whould have to install the >>> JavaPlugIn. Furthermore, if they are running on Win2K or WinXp, then >>> they would have to have Admin Privleges to do this for JRE versions >>> > 1.3 [I sure hope Sun fixes this...]. >>> >>> In addition, RedHat Linux apparetnly defaults to Netscape 4.x which >>> uses Netscape's very own JRE (based on 1.1.5) which does not have >>> Swing. You could use the jfc JAR file, but it's a 1MB download the >>> last time I looked. >>> >>> Second issue is that even when an applet is run on the local machine >>> through the browser, it is still quite likely it will not be able to >>> access remote data bases (and local files) without signing it. If >>> you are just trying to avoid having the end users install the java >>> runtime, I would suggested using InstallAnywhere's free version, and >>> bundling JRE 1.3.1 (do NOT use 1.4.0 or 1.4.1 with applets...lots >>> of problems) with your application. Your Windoz users do not have >>> to have Admin privleges to install the runtime this way. >>> >>> With an application, your worries are over! Well, most of them, >>> anyway... >>> >>> tom >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek >> Welcome to geek heaven. >> http://thinkgeek.com/sf >> _______________________________________________ >> Jython-users mailing list >> Jyt...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-users >> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > Jython-users mailing list > Jyt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-users -- -Aaron http://www.MetroNY.com/ "I don't know what's wrong with my television set. I was getting C-Span and the Home Shopping Network on the same station. I actually bought a congressman." - Bruce Baum |