From: Leo U. <leo...@ya...> - 2006-11-26 17:49:19
|
well, that may be true but the code as it is now is pretty much Java 6 code out there since development for Java 7 really hasn't gone too far. Let me check around, Ive asked this question before and Ive gotten different answers. leouser --- Brian Schlining <bsc...@gm...> wrote: > I heard that the Java source that sun released has > released as open source > is actually the Java 7.0 branch. > Brian > > On 11/26/06, Leo User <leo...@ya...> wrote: > > > > Oddly, 1.6 may end up being the norm for Linux > > distros. With Java making its first steps into > total > > open source, it won't be 1.4 or 1.5 which the > distros > > will package up, it will be 1.6. > > > > Java 5 adoption may become the norm quicker than > > expected. Just from looking at some anecdotal > > evidence from Joshua Marinacci's blog about a LA > JUG > > he went to: > > "Java 5 adoption is going great! When I spoke at > the > > LA JUG a year ago I saw about 25% using Java 5 and > 75% > > using 1.4. Last week the numbers were reversed." > > > > leouser > > > > > > --- Frank Wierzbicki <fwi...@gm...> > wrote: > > > > > On 11/26/06, Charlie Groves > > > <cha...@gm...> wrote: > > > > Based on > > > > > > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.jython.devel/2209/focus=2210 > > > > I think 1.4 is in for 2.3. The reason that > pushed > > > Frank over the edge > > > > there didn't pan out, but there are plenty of > > > others like NIO. > > > > > > > Since this didn't come to a clear conclusion in > that > > > earlier thread, > > > I'd suggest we do this: > > > > > > Jython 2.2: Java 1.2 (only because this has been > the > > > constraint for a long time) > > > Jython 2.3: Java 1.4 > > > Jython 2.4: Java 1.5 (or Java5 as they like to > call > > > it) > > > > > > I think we should target Java5 for Jython 2.4 > > > because I would like to > > > have some sort of relationship between Jython > > > annotations and Java > > > annotations, and that will be much easier if we > > > don't have to worry > > > about backwards compatibility. Besides, by the > time > > > we get a 2.4 > > > production-ready, Java5 or greater should be the > > > default in most > > > cases. > > > > > > -Frank > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of > IT > > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll > get > > > the chance to share your > > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > > > surveys - and earn cash > > > > > > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Jython-dev mailing list > > > Jyt...@li... > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Cheap talk? > > Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call > rates. > > http://voice.yahoo.com > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of > IT > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll > get the chance to share > > your > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > surveys - and earn cash > > > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > > _______________________________________________ > > Jython-dev mailing list > > Jyt...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index |
From: Stuart D. G. <st...@bm...> - 2006-11-27 18:57:13
|
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 jyt...@li... wrote: > As far as I can tell no enterprise IT shop runs anything older than 1.4. > They are usually the slowest moving beasts around so they are my litmus > test for minimum JDK versions. It's really hard to find anyone running > 1.3 let alone 1.2. So I would say the minimum version for anything > released today should be 1.4. As one of the *very* appreciative users of JDK 1.1 support for Jython 2.1, let me say that all our clients have had to do OS upgrades since then. As a result, the minimum JDK is now 1.4 for our customers, since mainstream JDK 1.1 version no longer run on RedHat 9 and Enterprise Linux. Just thought you'd like the confirmation. I'm still ticked at the ridiculous memory hogging of Java 2, but it can't be helped and memory is cheap. -- Stuart D. Gathman <st...@bm...> Business Management Systems Inc. Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154 "Confutatis maledictis, flammis acribus addictis" - background song for a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial. |
From: Leo U. <leo...@ya...> - 2006-11-27 19:04:17
|
Yes, but your probably a corner case. I don't think the greater Jython community should be hampered by legacy Javas. If there's progress to be made by using something new, go for it. If more developer's consider Jython as a viable development platform because of improvements based on recent JDKs/Javas then that will probably be a good thing. leouser --- "Stuart D. Gathman" <st...@bm...> wrote: > On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 > jyt...@li... wrote: > > > As far as I can tell no enterprise IT shop runs > anything older than 1.4. > > They are usually the slowest moving beasts around > so they are my litmus > > test for minimum JDK versions. It's really hard > to find anyone running > > 1.3 let alone 1.2. So I would say the minimum > version for anything > > released today should be 1.4. > > As one of the *very* appreciative users of JDK 1.1 > support for Jython 2.1, > let me say that all our clients have had to do OS > upgrades since then. > As a result, the minimum JDK is now 1.4 for our > customers, since mainstream JDK > 1.1 version no longer run on RedHat 9 and Enterprise > Linux. Just thought you'd > like the confirmation. I'm still ticked at the > ridiculous memory hogging > of Java 2, but it can't be helped and memory is > cheap. > > -- > Stuart D. Gathman <st...@bm...> > Business Management Systems Inc. Phone: 703 > 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154 > "Confutatis maledictis, flammis acribus addictis" - > background song for > a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from > here?" commercial. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get > the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > surveys - and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Jython-dev mailing list > Jyt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com |
From: Leo U. <leo...@ya...> - 2006-11-27 22:35:06
|
yeah, maybe. I was more focused on his apparent preference for 1.1(egads!). leouser --- Gwyn Evans <gwy...@gm...> wrote: > I think you missed Stuart's point, which was that > even his customers, > whom used to need 1.1, were now up to 1.4! > > /Gwyn > > On 27/11/06, Leo User <leo...@ya...> wrote: > > Yes, but your probably a corner case. I don't > think > > the greater Jython community should be hampered by > > legacy Javas. If there's progress to be made by > using > > something new, go for it. If more developer's > > consider Jython as a viable development platform > > because of improvements based on recent JDKs/Javas > > then that will probably be a good thing. > > > > leouser > > > > --- "Stuart D. Gathman" <st...@bm...> wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 > > > jyt...@li... wrote: > > > > > > > As far as I can tell no enterprise IT shop > runs > > > anything older than 1.4. > > > > They are usually the slowest moving beasts > around > > > so they are my litmus > > > > test for minimum JDK versions. It's really > hard > > > to find anyone running > > > > 1.3 let alone 1.2. So I would say the minimum > > > version for anything > > > > released today should be 1.4. > > > > > > As one of the *very* appreciative users of JDK > 1.1 > > > support for Jython 2.1, > > > let me say that all our clients have had to do > OS > > > upgrades since then. > > > As a result, the minimum JDK is now 1.4 for our > > > customers, since mainstream JDK > > > 1.1 version no longer run on RedHat 9 and > Enterprise > > > Linux. Just thought you'd > > > like the confirmation. I'm still ticked at the > > > ridiculous memory hogging > > > of Java 2, but it can't be helped and memory is > > > cheap. > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart D. Gathman <st...@bm...> > > > Business Management Systems Inc. Phone: 703 > > > 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154 > > > "Confutatis maledictis, flammis acribus > addictis" - > > > background song for > > > a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go > from > > > here?" commercial. > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com |
From: Petr G. <pet...@gm...> - 2006-11-28 05:59:15
|
Hello. I think it would be sensible to take a survey on the Jython's website asking which version of Java users are using or would like to use so there are no more vague guesses on the topic. In my case, we are using JDK 1.4 only due to lack of STABLE packages for Debian Linux. Our admins usually prefer to stay on safe side with that (even considering that only remaining bugs there are small intaller glitch and licence issue :). But with opening Sun JDK we will be able to switch to JDK 1.5 or even 1.6. That said with fully opened JDK there are no more hard reasons to use older versions. So. IMO it would be perfectly valid to use 1.5 for future releases and 1.4 for current development. -- Petr Gladkikh |
From: Leo U. <leo...@ya...> - 2006-11-28 14:33:35
|
Ive tossed the question as to what Java version the JRuby folks require to the JRuby mailing list. They currently require 1.4.2 but are considering 1.5 for 1.0 release. Interestingly, their responses so far as to why their considering 1.5 haven't been centered around whose using what Java version but focused on new things that can be used in Java 1.5 that will make a better implementation. leouser --- Petr Gladkikh <pet...@gm...> wrote: > Hello. > > I think it would be sensible to take a survey on the > Jython's website > asking which version of Java users are using or > would like to use so > there are no more vague guesses on the topic. > > In my case, we are using JDK 1.4 only due to lack of > STABLE packages > for Debian Linux. Our admins usually prefer to stay > on safe side with > that (even considering that only remaining bugs > there are small > intaller glitch and licence issue :). But with > opening Sun JDK we will > be able to switch to JDK 1.5 or even 1.6. > > That said with fully opened JDK there are no more > hard reasons to use > older versions. > > So. IMO it would be perfectly valid to use 1.5 for > future releases and > 1.4 for current development. > > -- > Petr Gladkikh > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get > the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > surveys - and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Jython-dev mailing list > Jyt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index |
From: Oti <oh...@gm...> - 2006-11-28 21:15:13
|
Hi, the current discussion IMHO applies for desktop an server users. But there are users which struggle to get Jython running on smaller VM's (cell phones, handhelds and the like). And if I recall correctly, we sort of promised them to still support JDK 1.2. in Jython 2.2. But I might be wrong. I'd say: let's open things up for releases > 2.2, and do not change target JDK for the upcoming release. best wishes, Oti. On 11/28/06, Leo User <leo...@ya...> wrote: > Ive tossed the question as to what Java version the > JRuby folks require to the JRuby mailing list. They > currently require 1.4.2 but are considering 1.5 for > 1.0 release. Interestingly, their responses so far as > to why their considering 1.5 haven't been centered > around whose using what Java version but focused on > new things that can be used in Java 1.5 that will make > a better implementation. > > leouser > > > --- Petr Gladkikh <pet...@gm...> wrote: > > > Hello. > > > > I think it would be sensible to take a survey on the > > Jython's website > > asking which version of Java users are using or > > would like to use so > > there are no more vague guesses on the topic. > > > > In my case, we are using JDK 1.4 only due to lack of > > STABLE packages > > for Debian Linux. Our admins usually prefer to stay > > on safe side with > > that (even considering that only remaining bugs > > there are small > > intaller glitch and licence issue :). But with > > opening Sun JDK we will > > be able to switch to JDK 1.5 or even 1.6. > > > > That said with fully opened JDK there are no more > > hard reasons to use > > older versions. > > > > So. IMO it would be perfectly valid to use 1.5 for > > future releases and > > 1.4 for current development. > > > > -- > > Petr Gladkikh > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get > > the chance to share your > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > > surveys - and earn cash > > > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > > _______________________________________________ > > Jython-dev mailing list > > Jyt...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Want to start your own business? > Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Jython-dev mailing list > Jyt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > |
From: Leo U. <leo...@ya...> - 2006-11-28 23:32:16
|
allright, either the first response was sent to Oti or its entered the ether... Ok, so Im not sure I see the connection between 1.2 and smaller devices. Usually I associate these with J2ME which to my understanding isn't constrained by what was 1.2 but is a subset of your typical J2SE(someone can fill the missing details for me if they want). As to being compatible with the 1.2 release, I guess I don't see the romance/use for doing so. 1.2 was released 9-10(more?) years ago and is no longer supported. I can see this as being a negative selling point to any Java developer who may be interested in developing Jython. Why would he want to sharpen his skills on an obsolete Java when there are projects out there that will exercise them on a modern Java? leouser --- Oti <oh...@gm...> wrote: > Hi, > > the current discussion IMHO applies for desktop an > server users. > > But there are users which struggle to get Jython > running on smaller > VM's (cell phones, handhelds and the like). And if I > recall correctly, > we sort of promised them to still support JDK 1.2. > in Jython 2.2. But > I might be wrong. > > I'd say: let's open things up for releases > 2.2, > and do not change > target JDK for the upcoming release. > > best wishes, > Oti. > > On 11/28/06, Leo User <leo...@ya...> wrote: > > Ive tossed the question as to what Java version > the > > JRuby folks require to the JRuby mailing list. > They > > currently require 1.4.2 but are considering 1.5 > for > > 1.0 release. Interestingly, their responses so > far as > > to why their considering 1.5 haven't been centered > > around whose using what Java version but focused > on > > new things that can be used in Java 1.5 that will > make > > a better implementation. > > > > leouser > > > > > > --- Petr Gladkikh <pet...@gm...> wrote: > > > > > Hello. > > > > > > I think it would be sensible to take a survey on > the > > > Jython's website > > > asking which version of Java users are using or > > > would like to use so > > > there are no more vague guesses on the topic. > > > > > > In my case, we are using JDK 1.4 only due to > lack of > > > STABLE packages > > > for Debian Linux. Our admins usually prefer to > stay > > > on safe side with > > > that (even considering that only remaining bugs > > > there are small > > > intaller glitch and licence issue :). But with > > > opening Sun JDK we will > > > be able to switch to JDK 1.5 or even 1.6. > > > > > > That said with fully opened JDK there are no > more > > > hard reasons to use > > > older versions. > > > > > > So. IMO it would be perfectly valid to use 1.5 > for > > > future releases and > > > 1.4 for current development. > > > > > > -- > > > Petr Gladkikh > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of > IT > > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll > get > > > the chance to share your > > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > > > surveys - and earn cash > > > > > > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Jython-dev mailing list > > > Jyt...@li... > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Want to start your own business? > > Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. > > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of > IT > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll > get the chance to share your > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > surveys - and earn cash > > > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > > _______________________________________________ > > Jython-dev mailing list > > Jyt...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get > the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > surveys - and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Jython-dev mailing list > Jyt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index |
From: Brian S. <bsc...@gm...> - 2006-11-29 17:14:03
|
I agree with Leo. The big problem I see with targeting JDK 1.2 and JDK 1.3 is that soon developers will have trouble getting those JDK's. Sun is 'end-of-lifeing' JDK 1.3. If you have a requirement that people wishing to contribute to Jython write to a JDK they can't get; well, you're going to run out of developers pretty quick. It looks like this project still has a very small pool of developers. If you try to cover too many targets (JDK 1.2-6.0, J2SE, J2ME) with a few developers, forward progress will be SLLLOOOOOOWWW. And really, with folks on this list already arguing about whether Jython should be described as 'inactive' or 'active', do you really want to slow development further? In my mind this is the scenario you want: 1) Crank out a 2.2. release. 2) People realize Jython isn't dead. They use it, they like (Personally, I love it). 3) People notice the project...it gets some buzz again!! 4) More developers sign on 5) With more developers on board, the team can start thinking about the smaller Java niches, like J2ME. On 11/28/06, Leo User <leo...@ya...> wrote: > allright, either the first response was sent to Oti or > its entered the ether... > > Ok, so Im not sure I see the connection between 1.2 > and smaller devices. Usually I associate these with > J2ME which to my understanding isn't constrained by > what was 1.2 but is a subset of your typical > J2SE(someone can fill the missing details for me if > they want). > > As to being compatible with the 1.2 release, I guess I > don't see the romance/use for doing so. 1.2 was > released 9-10(more?) years ago and is no longer > supported. I can see this as being a negative selling > point to any Java developer who may be interested in > developing Jython. Why would he want to sharpen his > skills on an obsolete Java when there are projects out > there that will exercise them on a modern Java? > > leouser > > > --- Oti <oh...@gm...> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > the current discussion IMHO applies for desktop an > > server users. > > > > But there are users which struggle to get Jython > > running on smaller > > VM's (cell phones, handhelds and the like). And if I > > recall correctly, > > we sort of promised them to still support JDK 1.2. > > in Jython 2.2. But > > I might be wrong. > > > > I'd say: let's open things up for releases > 2.2, > > and do not change > > target JDK for the upcoming release. > > > > best wishes, > > Oti. > > > > On 11/28/06, Leo User <leo...@ya...> wrote: > > > Ive tossed the question as to what Java version > > the > > > JRuby folks require to the JRuby mailing list. > > They > > > currently require 1.4.2 but are considering 1.5 > > for > > > 1.0 release. Interestingly, their responses so > > far as > > > to why their considering 1.5 haven't been centered > > > around whose using what Java version but focused > > on > > > new things that can be used in Java 1.5 that will > > make > > > a better implementation. > > > > > > leouser > > > > > > > > > --- Petr Gladkikh <pet...@gm...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hello. > > > > > > > > I think it would be sensible to take a survey on > > the > > > > Jython's website > > > > asking which version of Java users are using or > > > > would like to use so > > > > there are no more vague guesses on the topic. > > > > > > > > In my case, we are using JDK 1.4 only due to > > lack of > > > > STABLE packages > > > > for Debian Linux. Our admins usually prefer to > > stay > > > > on safe side with > > > > that (even considering that only remaining bugs > > > > there are small > > > > intaller glitch and licence issue :). But with > > > > opening Sun JDK we will > > > > be able to switch to JDK 1.5 or even 1.6. > > > > > > > > That said with fully opened JDK there are no > > more > > > > hard reasons to use > > > > older versions. > > > > > > > > So. IMO it would be perfectly valid to use 1.5 > > for > > > > future releases and > > > > 1.4 for current development. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Petr Gladkikh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of > > IT > > > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll > > get > > > > the chance to share your > > > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > > > > surveys - and earn cash > > > > > > > > > > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Jython-dev mailing list > > > > Jyt...@li... > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > > Want to start your own business? > > > Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. > > > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of > > IT > > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll > > get the chance to share your > > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > > surveys - and earn cash > > > > > > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Jython-dev mailing list > > > Jyt...@li... > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get > > the chance to share your > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > > surveys - and earn cash > > > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > > _______________________________________________ > > Jython-dev mailing list > > Jyt...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Want to start your own business? > Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Jython-dev mailing list > Jyt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > |
From: Leo U. <leo...@ya...> - 2006-11-29 18:20:21
|
Im not even sure where you'd get a 1.2 Java these days. I went looking at Sun's pages and can only find 1.3 onward. leouser --- Brian Schlining <bsc...@gm...> wrote: > I agree with Leo. > > The big problem I see with targeting JDK 1.2 and JDK > 1.3 is that soon > developers will have trouble getting those JDK's. > Sun is > 'end-of-lifeing' JDK 1.3. If you have a requirement > that people > wishing to contribute to Jython write to a JDK they > can't get; well, > you're going to run out of developers pretty quick. > > It looks like this project still has a very small > pool of developers. > If you try to cover too many targets (JDK 1.2-6.0, > J2SE, J2ME) with a > few developers, forward progress will be > SLLLOOOOOOWWW. And really, > with folks on this list already arguing about > whether Jython should be > described as 'inactive' or 'active', do you really > want to slow > development further? In my mind this is the scenario > you want: > 1) Crank out a 2.2. release. > 2) People realize Jython isn't dead. They use it, > they like > (Personally, I love it). > 3) People notice the project...it gets some buzz > again!! > 4) More developers sign on > 5) With more developers on board, the team can start > thinking about > the smaller Java niches, like J2ME. > > > > On 11/28/06, Leo User <leo...@ya...> wrote: > > allright, either the first response was sent to > Oti or > > its entered the ether... > > > > Ok, so Im not sure I see the connection between > 1.2 > > and smaller devices. Usually I associate these > with > > J2ME which to my understanding isn't constrained > by > > what was 1.2 but is a subset of your typical > > J2SE(someone can fill the missing details for me > if > > they want). > > > > As to being compatible with the 1.2 release, I > guess I > > don't see the romance/use for doing so. 1.2 was > > released 9-10(more?) years ago and is no longer > > supported. I can see this as being a negative > selling > > point to any Java developer who may be interested > in > > developing Jython. Why would he want to sharpen > his > > skills on an obsolete Java when there are projects > out > > there that will exercise them on a modern Java? > > > > leouser > > > > > > --- Oti <oh...@gm...> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > the current discussion IMHO applies for desktop > an > > > server users. > > > > > > But there are users which struggle to get Jython > > > running on smaller > > > VM's (cell phones, handhelds and the like). And > if I > > > recall correctly, > > > we sort of promised them to still support JDK > 1.2. > > > in Jython 2.2. But > > > I might be wrong. > > > > > > I'd say: let's open things up for releases > > 2.2, > > > and do not change > > > target JDK for the upcoming release. > > > > > > best wishes, > > > Oti. > > > > > > On 11/28/06, Leo User <leo...@ya...> > wrote: > > > > Ive tossed the question as to what Java > version > > > the > > > > JRuby folks require to the JRuby mailing list. > > > They > > > > currently require 1.4.2 but are considering > 1.5 > > > for > > > > 1.0 release. Interestingly, their responses > so > > > far as > > > > to why their considering 1.5 haven't been > centered > > > > around whose using what Java version but > focused > > > on > > > > new things that can be used in Java 1.5 that > will > > > make > > > > a better implementation. > > > > > > > > leouser > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Petr Gladkikh <pet...@gm...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello. > > > > > > > > > > I think it would be sensible to take a > survey on > > > the > > > > > Jython's website > > > > > asking which version of Java users are using > or > > > > > would like to use so > > > > > there are no more vague guesses on the > topic. > > > > > > > > > > In my case, we are using JDK 1.4 only due to > > > lack of > > > > > STABLE packages > > > > > for Debian Linux. Our admins usually prefer > to > > > stay > > > > > on safe side with > > > > > that (even considering that only remaining > bugs > > > > > there are small > > > > > intaller glitch and licence issue :). But > with > > > > > opening Sun JDK we will > > > > > be able to switch to JDK 1.5 or even 1.6. > > > > > > > > > > That said with fully opened JDK there are no > > > more > > > > > hard reasons to use > > > > > older versions. > > > > > > > > > > So. IMO it would be perfectly valid to use > 1.5 > > > for > > > > > future releases and > > > > > 1.4 for current development. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Petr Gladkikh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the > Future of > > > IT > > > > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and > you'll > > > get > > > > > the chance to share your > > > > > opinions on IT & business topics through > brief > > > > > surveys - and earn cash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Jython-dev mailing list > > > > > Jyt...@li... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com |
From: Paul D. F. <pdf...@ku...> - 2006-11-29 22:36:30
|
Just to throw my two cents in on this again, *testing* and *maintenance* is a big part of product development for a community. If no one is stepping forward to offer to *test* or *maintain* in an ongoing and serious way Jython on a particular platform, how can anyone really say it is supported or appropriate for that platform, even if it compiles on it? It seems to me, even given Jython compiling under Java 1.2, that Java 1.4.2 or later (or probably better yet now 1.5 or later as time has passed, and 1.4.2 is already on its way out) is the platform almost all Jython users who would adopt Jython 2.2 are using. Those are the Java platforms a community with limited resources can say, yes, the program has been compiled there and heavily tested here, and you are unlikely to be extremely dissatisfied if you use it on that platform. Even simple things like screen shots, install directions, dealing with bug fixes, and so on may differ across platforms. Is most of the community in a position to even just speculate on how to fix a bug that, say, only shows up in JVM 1.2 or 1.3 (but not in 1.4 or 1.5) if one should pop up? And, in a community with limited resources, does anyone really want to debug and make these fixes as a priority? Have enough things changes since then to make that "promise" to run under 1.2 obsolete relative to other priorities even for the people promised? Will such people really be significantly harmed if that "promise" is broken and they have to either stick with Jython 2.1 or compile and support Jython 2.2 themselves? Are there any real Jython users out there who say they really need a 1.2 version? If so, please raise your hands. On the other hand, I'd expect almost everyone here uses Java 1.4.2 or later (with support for Java ME being a different issue, as someone else raised). I think Frank made a good decision to keep later Java features out of Jython 2.2 so it could in theory run under Java 1.2 given how far things had advanced. Someone could now easily compile it under Java 1.2. and support it themselves, and that flexibility is a good thing. But as a general release which presumably is going to be supported and maintained by people on this list, is messing around with bugs from Java 1.2 or Java 1.3 going to receive any level of priority here -- or will they just become unhappy at an implicit unkept promise that they will get reasonable support if Jython 2.2. is said to support those versions of Java? Anyway, I know where people are coming from in terms of saying that Jython does not yet depend on JVM or Java features later than 1.2. But nonetheless, that dependency is only part of the whole release and maintenance cycle. Let me give you a concrete example -- for one project I had to be very careful to compile it only under Java 1.4.2 because the exact identical code would be compiled differently under 1.5 and then would not work under 1.4.2 (a class I used had added methods in 1.5, thus changing it's downwardly compatible signature I think). So, essentially, if Jython 2.2. is listed as being supported by Java 1.2, then really any released version needs to be compiled under Java 1.2, because the compatibility of compilation is more assured going forward then going backward. So, who here is going to always be willing to do every binary checkin for Jython 2.2 bug fixes under a JVM nobody can easily get nowadays? And if someone is willing here (I assume Frank must be doing development and compilation under 1.2 and plans to use that for the release?), how long will that last? So essentially, a "1.2" compatible Jython 2.2. is, essentially, just about already orphaned on release in that sense (unless, again, someone like Frank is going to keep Java 1.2 on his machine from now until whenever bug fixes for 2.2 are no longer accepted and new released are not made). So here is my proposal based on the needs for testing and maintenance, not development. Jython can in theory compile under JDK 1.2 or 1.3. Make a note of that in the documentation, but don't offer to support that (unless the person who needs that support is willing to do it themselves, etc.) Tell people if they want out of the box support for earlier JDKs use Jython 2.1. Compile and release Jython 2.2 as supported for JDK 1.5 and later (or if feeling generous, for JDK 1.4.2 forward). Anyway, I am sorry if I am steeping on the toes of JDK 1.2 users (if they are out there?), but I am ultimately just trying to make the life easier for the maintainers of Jython so they can focus on continuing to move it forward :-) --Paul Fernhout Leo User wrote: > Im not even sure where you'd get a 1.2 Java these > days. I went looking at Sun's pages and can only find > 1.3 onward. |
From: Leo U. <leo...@ya...> - 2006-11-29 23:01:57
|
Someone on the JRuby lists talked about the companies he knows about use the recent version and the last version. So it sounded like in his case 1.4 and 1.5. But he stressed vendors will drop support for 1.4 once 1.6 is out, forcing alot to upgrade to 1.5. 1.6 is just around the corner... Im trying to think of problems Ive ran into by using 1.5 or 1.6 and jython.... leouser --- "Paul D. Fernhout" <pdf...@ku...> wrote: > Just to throw my two cents in on this again, > *testing* and *maintenance* > is a big part of product development for a > community. If no one is > stepping forward to offer to *test* or *maintain* in > an ongoing and > serious way Jython on a particular platform, how can > anyone really say it > is supported or appropriate for that platform, even > if it compiles on it? > > It seems to me, even given Jython compiling under > Java 1.2, that Java > 1.4.2 or later (or probably better yet now 1.5 or > later as time has > passed, and 1.4.2 is already on its way out) is the > platform almost all > Jython users who would adopt Jython 2.2 are using. > Those are the Java > platforms a community with limited resources can > say, yes, the program has > been compiled there and heavily tested here, and you > are unlikely to be > extremely dissatisfied if you use it on that > platform. Even simple things > like screen shots, install directions, dealing with > bug fixes, and so on > may differ across platforms. Is most of the > community in a position to > even just speculate on how to fix a bug that, say, > only shows up in JVM > 1.2 or 1.3 (but not in 1.4 or 1.5) if one should pop > up? And, in a > community with limited resources, does anyone really > want to debug and > make these fixes as a priority? Have enough things > changes since then to > make that "promise" to run under 1.2 obsolete > relative to other priorities > even for the people promised? Will such people > really be significantly > harmed if that "promise" is broken and they have to > either stick with > Jython 2.1 or compile and support Jython 2.2 > themselves? Are there any > real Jython users out there who say they really need > a 1.2 version? If so, > please raise your hands. On the other hand, I'd > expect almost everyone > here uses Java 1.4.2 or later (with support for Java > ME being a different > issue, as someone else raised). > > I think Frank made a good decision to keep later > Java features out of > Jython 2.2 so it could in theory run under Java 1.2 > given how far things > had advanced. Someone could now easily compile it > under Java 1.2. and > support it themselves, and that flexibility is a > good thing. But as a > general release which presumably is going to be > supported and maintained > by people on this list, is messing around with bugs > from Java 1.2 or Java > 1.3 going to receive any level of priority here -- > or will they just > become unhappy at an implicit unkept promise that > they will get reasonable > support if Jython 2.2. is said to support those > versions of Java? > > Anyway, I know where people are coming from in terms > of saying that Jython > does not yet depend on JVM or Java features later > than 1.2. But > nonetheless, that dependency is only part of the > whole release and > maintenance cycle. Let me give you a concrete > example -- for one project I > had to be very careful to compile it only under Java > 1.4.2 because the > exact identical code would be compiled differently > under 1.5 and then > would not work under 1.4.2 (a class I used had added > methods in 1.5, thus > changing it's downwardly compatible signature I > think). So, essentially, > if Jython 2.2. is listed as being supported by Java > 1.2, then really any > released version needs to be compiled under Java > 1.2, because the > compatibility of compilation is more assured going > forward then going > backward. So, who here is going to always be willing > to do every binary > checkin for Jython 2.2 bug fixes under a JVM nobody > can easily get > nowadays? And if someone is willing here (I assume > Frank must be doing > development and compilation under 1.2 and plans to > use that for the > release?), how long will that last? So essentially, > a "1.2" compatible > Jython 2.2. is, essentially, just about already > orphaned on release in > that sense (unless, again, someone like Frank is > going to keep Java 1.2 on > his machine from now until whenever bug fixes for > 2.2 are no longer > accepted and new released are not made). > > So here is my proposal based on the needs for > testing and maintenance, not > development. Jython can in theory compile under JDK > 1.2 or 1.3. Make a > note of that in the documentation, but don't offer > to support that (unless > the person who needs that support is willing to do > it themselves, etc.) > Tell people if they want out of the box support for > earlier JDKs use > Jython 2.1. Compile and release Jython 2.2 as > supported for JDK 1.5 and > later (or if feeling generous, for JDK 1.4.2 > forward). > > Anyway, I am sorry if I am steeping on the toes of > JDK 1.2 users (if they > are out there?), but I am ultimately just trying to > make the life easier > for the maintainers of Jython so they can focus on > continuing to move it > forward :-) > > --Paul Fernhout > > Leo User wrote: > > Im not even sure where you'd get a 1.2 Java these > > days. I went looking at Sun's pages and can only > find > > 1.3 onward. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get > the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > surveys - and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Jython-dev mailing list > Jyt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com |
From: Kent J. <ke...@td...> - 2006-11-30 00:36:20
|
Paul D. Fernhout wrote: > Just to throw my two cents in on this again, *testing* and *maintenance* > is a big part of product development for a community. If no one is > stepping forward to offer to *test* or *maintain* in an ongoing and > serious way Jython on a particular platform, how can anyone really say it > is supported or appropriate for that platform, even if it compiles on it? You make a really good point. The desire and ability of the maintainers to support Java 1.2 should be considered. > So here is my proposal based on the needs for testing and maintenance, not > development. Jython can in theory compile under JDK 1.2 or 1.3. Make a > note of that in the documentation, but don't offer to support that (unless > the person who needs that support is willing to do it themselves, etc.) > Tell people if they want out of the box support for earlier JDKs use > Jython 2.1. Compile and release Jython 2.2 as supported for JDK 1.5 and > later (or if feeling generous, for JDK 1.4.2 forward). I would like to see support for Java 1.4.2 for the simple reason that this is the latest release that works with Jython 2.1. I have avoided upgrading to Java 1.5 for that reason. (I know, there is a build available that works with 1.5...) I think there is some value in being able to easily upgrade to Jython 2.2 without having to upgrade Java, and in particular being able to easily switch between Jython 2.1 and 2.2. One very tangible benefit of easy switching will be more testing. I for one have several medium sized applications written in Jython with extensive test suites (for the apps). I'm looking forward to trying them with Jython 2.2 when the beta comes out. If it is difficult to switch between 2.1 and 2.2 that will make the testing more difficult and adds a barrier to adoption of 2.2. That's my 2 cents, Kent |
From: Paul D. F. <pdf...@ku...> - 2006-11-30 13:41:26
|
Kent Johnson wrote: > Paul D. Fernhout wrote: > I would like to see support for Java 1.4.2 for the simple reason that > this is the latest release that works with Jython 2.1. I have avoided > upgrading to Java 1.5 for that reason. (I know, there is a build > available that works with 1.5...) I think there is some value in being > able to easily upgrade to Jython 2.2 without having to upgrade Java, and > in particular being able to easily switch between Jython 2.1 and 2.2. > > One very tangible benefit of easy switching will be more testing. I for > one have several medium sized applications written in Jython with > extensive test suites (for the apps). I'm looking forward to trying them > with Jython 2.2 when the beta comes out. If it is difficult to switch > between 2.1 and 2.2 that will make the testing more difficult and adds a > barrier to adoption of 2.2. > > That's my 2 cents, You've certainly convinced me. :-) You make a very good argument for compiling under and releasing for Java 1.4.2 for Jython 2.2. Especially now that the huge hardest hurdle of supporting new classes has been cleared, we will likely see and future releases to come out faster, and those could (from a testing standpoint) then be 1.5 only or later (to make the maintainers' lives easier). I released stuff myself with Jython that runs on 1.5 (but was built with 1.4.2), but I was using a early slightly modified alpha build of 2.2 I compiled myself; I did not even know Jython 2.1 did not run under 1.5. Thanks for pointing that out. --Paul Fernhout |
From: Kent J. <ke...@td...> - 2006-11-30 14:00:40
|
Paul D. Fernhout wrote: > I released stuff myself with Jython that runs on 1.5 (but was built with > 1.4.2), but I was using a early slightly modified alpha build of 2.2 I > compiled myself; I did not even know Jython 2.1 did not run under 1.5. > Thanks for pointing that out. The official release of 2.1 does not run on 1.5. There is an unofficial build available that works with 1.5. A few more details here: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=8079716 Kent |
From: Raghuram D. <ra...@sy...> - 2006-11-30 14:27:20
|
I have been using jython 2.1 with jre 1.5 for quite some time now. The=20 platforms I use on include windows, linux, and solaris. I haven't found=20 any problems yet but may be I am not exercising the problematic parts.=20 Are there any specific issues with 1.5 and jython 2.1? I seem to have=20 downloaded jython in middle 2004. Thanks, Raghu. Kent Johnson wrote: > Paul D. Fernhout wrote: >> I released stuff myself with Jython that runs on 1.5 (but was built = with=20 >> 1.4.2), but I was using a early slightly modified alpha build of 2.2 = I=20 >> compiled myself; I did not even know Jython 2.1 did not run under = 1.5.=20 >> Thanks for pointing that out. >=20 > The official release of 2.1 does not run on 1.5. There is an = unofficial=20 > build available that works with 1.5. A few more details here: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=3D8079716=20 =20 _________________________________________________________________________= ____ =20 ATTENTION: =20 The information contained in this message (including any files = transmitted with this message) may contain proprietary, trade secret or = other confidential and/or legally privileged information. Any pricing = information contained in this message or in any files transmitted with = this message is always confidential and cannot be shared with any third = parties without prior written approval from Syncsort. This message is = intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is = addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the = intended recipient, you are on notice that any use, disclosure, copying = or distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If = you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the = sender and/or Syncsort and destroy all copies of this message in your = possession, custody or control. |
From: Kent J. <ke...@td...> - 2006-11-30 14:33:13
|
Raghuram Devarakonda wrote: > I have been using jython 2.1 with jre 1.5 for quite some time now. The > platforms I use on include windows, linux, and solaris. I haven't found > any problems yet but may be I am not exercising the problematic parts. > Are there any specific issues with 1.5 and jython 2.1? I seem to have > downloaded jython in middle 2004. I have not used Jython 2.1 with Java 1.5 myself. When Java 1.5 came out there was some discussion on the list about problems so I avoided it. See the reference below or search the list archives for details. Kent > > Thanks, > Raghu. > > Kent Johnson wrote: >> Paul D. Fernhout wrote: >>> I released stuff myself with Jython that runs on 1.5 (but was built with >>> 1.4.2), but I was using a early slightly modified alpha build of 2.2 I >>> compiled myself; I did not even know Jython 2.1 did not run under 1.5. >>> Thanks for pointing that out. >> The official release of 2.1 does not run on 1.5. There is an unofficial >> build available that works with 1.5. A few more details here: >> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=8079716 > > _____________________________________________________________________________ > > ATTENTION: > > The information contained in this message (including any files transmitted with this message) may contain proprietary, trade secret or other confidential and/or legally privileged information. Any pricing information contained in this message or in any files transmitted with this message is always confidential and cannot be shared with any third parties without prior written approval from Syncsort. This message is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any use, disclosure, copying or distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and/or Syncsort and destroy all copies of this message in your possession, custody or control. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Jython-dev mailing list > Jyt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > > |
From: Leo U. <leo...@ya...> - 2006-11-27 14:44:22
|
well, according to the FAQ, Java 7 pieces are being released first. But as I noted, their so similiar to Java 6 that when the JDK is completely opened under 7, they will be opened for 6 as well. A little confusing from just observation but I think it makes sense. leouser --- Leo User <leo...@ya...> wrote: > well, that may be true but the code as it is now is > pretty much Java 6 code out there since development > for Java 7 really hasn't gone too far. Let me check > around, Ive asked this question before and Ive > gotten > different answers. > > leouser > > > --- Brian Schlining <bsc...@gm...> wrote: > > > I heard that the Java source that sun released has > > released as open source > > is actually the Java 7.0 branch. > > Brian > > > > On 11/26/06, Leo User <leo...@ya...> > wrote: > > > > > > Oddly, 1.6 may end up being the norm for Linux > > > distros. With Java making its first steps into > > total > > > open source, it won't be 1.4 or 1.5 which the > > distros > > > will package up, it will be 1.6. > > > > > > Java 5 adoption may become the norm quicker than > > > expected. Just from looking at some anecdotal > > > evidence from Joshua Marinacci's blog about a LA > > JUG > > > he went to: > > > "Java 5 adoption is going great! When I spoke at > > the > > > LA JUG a year ago I saw about 25% using Java 5 > and > > 75% > > > using 1.4. Last week the numbers were reversed." > > > > > > leouser > > > > > > > > > --- Frank Wierzbicki <fwi...@gm...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > On 11/26/06, Charlie Groves > > > > <cha...@gm...> wrote: > > > > > Based on > > > > > > > > > > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.jython.devel/2209/focus=2210 > > > > > I think 1.4 is in for 2.3. The reason that > > pushed > > > > Frank over the edge > > > > > there didn't pan out, but there are plenty > of > > > > others like NIO. > > > > > > > > > Since this didn't come to a clear conclusion > in > > that > > > > earlier thread, > > > > I'd suggest we do this: > > > > > > > > Jython 2.2: Java 1.2 (only because this has > been > > the > > > > constraint for a long time) > > > > Jython 2.3: Java 1.4 > > > > Jython 2.4: Java 1.5 (or Java5 as they like to > > call > > > > it) > > > > > > > > I think we should target Java5 for Jython 2.4 > > > > because I would like to > > > > have some sort of relationship between Jython > > > > annotations and Java > > > > annotations, and that will be much easier if > we > > > > don't have to worry > > > > about backwards compatibility. Besides, by > the > > time > > > > we get a 2.4 > > > > production-ready, Java5 or greater should be > the > > > > default in most > > > > cases. > > > > > > > > -Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future > of > > IT > > > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and > you'll > > get > > > > the chance to share your > > > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > > > > surveys - and earn cash > > > > > > > > > > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Jython-dev mailing list > > > > Jyt...@li... > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > > Cheap talk? > > > Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone > call > > rates. > > > http://voice.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of > > IT > > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll > > get the chance to share > > > your > > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > > surveys - and earn cash > > > > > > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Jython-dev mailing list > > > Jyt...@li... > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Want to start your own business? > Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get > the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief > surveys - and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Jython-dev mailing list > Jyt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com |