From: Jesse M. <da...@gm...> - 2012-03-03 06:45:16
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Hello, First, I just want to say that I'm a mostly happy user of the program, under both Linux and Windows, and I really enjoy most of the options it has for displaying information. That being said, I'm currently entering in a Swedish branch of a family, and I'm running into trouble with entering in "farm names". I've searched the docs, but I don't think I know how to do this correctly. Some background: Before a certain time in Sweden, names were of the format "farm" "given" "patronymic". Given and patronymic is self-explanatory. But with certain names being common, it was also pretty common to have several people with the same given & patronymic combination. To distinguish between people, a "farm name" was also provided - basically, their location. So while there may be several people by the name of "Olof Andersson", there would be only (hopefully) one at each farm. When it comes to genealogical family trees, a father using his father's name for a son is common, so there can be a repeating pattern of "Olof Andersson", "Anders Olsson", "Olof Andersson", "Anders Olsson", etc. Quite confusing, and, of course, it leads to a situation where editing the wrong person is easy to do. I would rather distinguish people a little more thoroughly. I found the "family nickname" entry under the names tab for the individuals. Judging by the docs, this seems to be the correct place to enter the farm name. But I would also like to display it in the person's name, just to distinguish between several people of the same name in the family tree. So if the farm name was "Jons" (to use an example from the tree I'm working on), then the person's name should be "Jons Olof Andersson" in the display. How can I do this? And, since I'm told that farm names, being location-based, can change when people move, how would I put down a preferred farm name to display? Or am I doing this completely wrong? Thanks in advance! |
From: Josip <jo...@pi...> - 2012-03-03 17:54:10
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On 03.03.2012 07:45, Jesse Meyer wrote: > > Some background: Before a certain time in Sweden, names were of the format > "farm" "given" "patronymic". Given and patronymic is self-explanatory. > But with certain names being common, it was also pretty common to have > several people with the same given& patronymic combination. To > distinguish between people, a "farm name" was also provided - basically, > their location. So while there may be several people by the name of "Olof > Andersson", there would be only (hopefully) one at each farm. When it > comes to genealogical family trees, a father using his father's name for a > son is common, so there can be a repeating pattern of "Olof Andersson", > "Anders Olsson", "Olof Andersson", "Anders Olsson", etc. Quite confusing, > and, of course, it leads to a situation where editing the wrong person is > easy to do. I would rather distinguish people a little more thoroughly. > > I found the "family nickname" entry under the names tab for the > individuals. Judging by the docs, this seems to be the correct place to > enter the farm name. But I would also like to display it in the person's > name, just to distinguish between several people of the same name in the > family tree. So if the farm name was "Jons" (to use an example from the > tree I'm working on), then the person's name should be "Jons Olof > Andersson" in the display. > In gramps 3.3.1: Create person with "Given" name and "Patronymic" surname, then click "Multiple Surnames" and add one with "origin" of "Location" -- Josip |
From: avarnes <asb...@gm...> - 2012-03-03 20:49:44
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I would not recommend using the surname field for patronyms. Firstly, patronyms are not surnames. Secondly, you will end up with a huge number of duplicate names because of the limited number of person names used in Scandinavian rural communities. I always append patronyms to the given name, and use the farm name as surname. I normally use the farm name where the person was born. If (as is often the case) the farm name would later change, it is possible to add that as an alternative name. -- View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Proper-entry-display-of-farm-names-tp4440795p4442263.html Sent from the GRAMPS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. |
From: Josip <jo...@pi...> - 2012-03-03 21:40:38
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On 03.03.2012 21:49, avarnes wrote: > I would not recommend using the surname field for patronyms. Firstly, > patronyms are not surnames. Secondly, you will end up with a huge number of > duplicate names because of the limited number of person names used in > Scandinavian rural communities. > I always append patronyms to the given name, and use the farm name as > surname. I normally use the farm name where the person was born. If (as is > often the case) the farm name would later change, it is possible to add that > as an alternative name. > Qute from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_name A family name (in Western contexts often referred to as a surname or "last name") is typically a part of a person's name which has been passed, according to law or custom, from one or both parents to their children. Gramps (at version 3.3.1) have extensive support for surnames and all names generaly so one can create rely complex surname in two way: 1. enter all in one surname field without telling gramps their origin. 2. use multiple surname, entering one by one, telling Gramps about they origin Using second way displays and sorting of people names can be easily changed. -- Josip |
From: avarnes <asb...@gm...> - 2012-03-03 22:26:56
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A patronymic name is just a component of a person's name. It's neither firstname nor surname. The reason it may - in my opinion - just as well be lumped together with the firstname is that it is hardly ever of interest to sort by patronyms. Doing so also reserves the (primary) surname field for the place/farm name, which is usually a more important/interesting piece of information to display in that field. -- View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Proper-entry-display-of-farm-names-tp4440795p4442487.html Sent from the GRAMPS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. |
From: Josip <jo...@pi...> - 2012-03-03 23:53:16
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On 03.03.2012 23:26, avarnes wrote: > A patronymic name is just a component of a person's name. It's neither > firstname nor surname. The reason it may - in my opinion - just as well be > lumped together with the firstname is that it is hardly ever of interest to > sort by patronyms. Doing so also reserves the (primary) surname field for > the place/farm name, which is usually a more important/interesting piece of > information to display in that field. > > Yes, it is all fine in theory. But in reality Gramps support partonyms through surnames, which is just collective name for "components of a person's name" of various types of origin. To use it or not is user choice. Not using it means quicker entering of data on expense of loosing full control of sorting and display, as mixing people of different cultures. (obviously i am a big fan of Gramps names support :-) ) -- Josip |
From: Benny M. <ben...@gm...> - 2012-03-05 13:42:20
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2012/3/4 Josip <jo...@pi...>: > On 03.03.2012 23:26, avarnes wrote: >> A patronymic name is just a component of a person's name. It's neither >> firstname nor surname. The reason it may - in my opinion - just as well be >> lumped together with the firstname is that it is hardly ever of interest to >> sort by patronyms. Doing so also reserves the (primary) surname field for >> the place/farm name, which is usually a more important/interesting piece of >> information to display in that field. >> >> > > Yes, it is all fine in theory. > But in reality Gramps support partonyms through surnames, which is just > collective name for "components of a person's name" of various types of > origin. I agree with Josip here. We have added more extensive support for surnames for those who want to use it. There is no intention to add such a thing for given names, we expect given names to have no extra meaning that needs distinction. Adding an origin location allows you also to use the filters (give me people who have a location type surname with birth event in blabla). Benny Benny > To use it or not is user choice. > Not using it means quicker entering of data on expense of loosing full > control of sorting and display, as mixing people of different cultures. > > > (obviously i am a big fan of Gramps names support :-) ) > > -- > Josip > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning > Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing > also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. > http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-users mailing list > Gra...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users |
From: avarnes <asb...@gm...> - 2012-03-05 16:02:56
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After some testing I must admit Gramps names support is far more advanced than I was aware, designating patronyms as a type of surname is obviously not only doable but probably also recommendable. I still wouldn't change my own method though, it has served me well and I would view it a problem if, when exporting my data as gedcom, the patronym was treated as just another surname. That would mess up sorting of surnames on e.g. web pages. -- View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Proper-entry-display-of-farm-names-tp4440795p4446508.html Sent from the GRAMPS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. |
From: Benny M. <ben...@gm...> - 2012-03-06 08:22:23
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2012/3/5 avarnes <asb...@gm...>: > After some testing I must admit Gramps names support is far more advanced > than I was aware, designating patronyms as a type of surname is obviously > not only doable but probably also recommendable. > I still wouldn't change my own method though, it has served me well and I > would view it a problem if, when exporting my data as gedcom, the patronym > was treated as just another surname. That would mess up sorting of surnames > on e.g. web pages. I would have to test, but gedcom export will be according to a rule, which would be easy to make something that is fed by the namedisplay routine in Gramps. Gedcom name support is basic, so we only need a display for how the given name must be written out, and how the surname. In Gramps you can then set given name in gedcom to given name of gramps + patronym Benny > > -- > View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Proper-entry-display-of-farm-names-tp4440795p4446508.html > Sent from the GRAMPS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Try before you buy = See our experts in action! > The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers > is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, > Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-users mailing list > Gra...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users |
From: avarnes <asb...@gm...> - 2012-03-06 14:49:01
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I could see another benefit from allowing the namedisplay routine to determine how names are written to gedcom. Some people with "farm names" had a lot of different surnames, depending on how much they moved around in their lives. I'm currently reluctant to add all those names, since it tends to be "too much information" for presentation platforms requiring gedcom export (a gedcom reader, a php website). From a researcher's perspective however, it would be very useful to have every known name recorded in Gramps. Your suggested functionality could solve both needs, since (presumably) it would be possible to restrict the number of surnames output to gedcom. -- View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Proper-entry-display-of-farm-names-tp4440795p4450082.html Sent from the GRAMPS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. |