From: Leonid M. <le...@le...> - 2004-03-10 14:31:51
|
Dear All, I am trying to generate a graphical representation of my family tree in jpeg/gif/png format for the web. The simplest way, I understand, is to generate a relationship report in GraphViz and then convert it to any graphical format understood by web browsers. This path almost works. The only problem that I have is that all names of my family are in Cyrillic. GraphViz report spoils everything with question mark characters. ("?????, ??????"). Did anyone manage to generate a jpeg/gif/png tree with correctly displayed Cyrillic characters, or a GraphViz report for that matter? -- Leonid Mamtchenkov. http://www.leonid.maks.net |
From: Don A. <dal...@us...> - 2004-03-10 16:05:25
|
Alex has been looking at integrating the FreeFont package, which provides full (or near full) Unicode support. This is needed for the new gnome-print capability. Once these fonts are installed, we should be able to explicitly select the font. Don Leonid Mamtchenkov wrote: >Dear All, > >I am trying to generate a graphical representation of my family tree in >jpeg/gif/png format for the web. The simplest way, I understand, is to >generate a relationship report in GraphViz and then convert it to any >graphical format understood by web browsers. > >This path almost works. The only problem that I have is that all names >of my family are in Cyrillic. GraphViz report spoils everything with >question mark characters. ("?????, ??????"). > >Did anyone manage to generate a jpeg/gif/png tree with correctly >displayed Cyrillic characters, or a GraphViz report for that matter? > > > |
From: Alex R. <sh...@al...> - 2004-03-10 18:09:06
|
Actually, it seems that the line 477 in GraphViz.py converts labels =20 from utf8 to iso-8859-1, which process replaces all the other chars =20 with question marks. Replacing "utf8_to_latin(label)" with just "label" preserves the utf8 =20 text in the resulting dot file. Now, to get this working in the output, =20 one has to use (1) True Type font (2) covering the portion of the =20 Unicode Char Set (UCS) corresponding to the labels. Fortunately, the default font is Arial, and that is both true type and =20 covering almost all of UCS (definitely cyrillic). I believe that =20 gettind rid of utf8_to_latin call shoul fix the problem, but I don't =20 know for sure. Please let me know if the output looks sane :-) If this works, I think the utf8_to_latin should only be called when =20 Postscript Fonts are used. With the True Type, either Arial or FreeSans =20 should do the trick. Once we hear from the ttf-freefont maintainers, we =20 may switch from Arial to FreeSans. Alex On 03/10/2004 09:55:11 AM, Don Allingham wrote: > Alex has been looking at integrating the FreeFont package, which =20 > provides full (or near full) Unicode support. This is needed for the =20 > new gnome-print capability. Once these fonts are installed, we should =20 > be able to explicitly select the font. >=20 > Leonid Mamtchenkov wrote: >>=20 >> I am trying to generate a graphical representation of my family tree = =20 >> in jpeg/gif/png format for the web. The simplest way, I =20 >> understand, is to generate a relationship report in GraphViz and =20 >> then convert it to any graphical format understood by web =20 >> browsers. >>=20 >> This path almost works. The only problem that I have is that all =20 >> names of my family are in Cyrillic. GraphViz report spoils =20 >> everything with question mark characters. ("?????, ??????"). >>=20 >> Did anyone manage to generate a jpeg/gif/png tree with correctly >> displayed Cyrillic characters, or a GraphViz report for that matter? --=20 Alexander Roitman http://ebner.neuroscience.umn.edu/people/alex.html Dept. of Neuroscience, Lions Research Building 2001 6th Street SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455 Tel (612) 625-7566 FAX (612) 626-9201 |
From: Leonid M. <le...@le...> - 2004-03-11 19:50:31
|
* Alex Roitman <sh...@al...> [10-Mar-2004 11:59]: > Actually, it seems that the line 477 in GraphViz.py converts labels > from utf8 to iso-8859-1, which process replaces all the other chars > with question marks. > > Replacing "utf8_to_latin(label)" with just "label" preserves the utf8 > text in the resulting dot file. Now, to get this working in the output, > one has to use (1) True Type font (2) covering the portion of the > Unicode Char Set (UCS) corresponding to the labels. You are totally, completely and amazingly right! :) I've replaced utf8_to_latin(label) with label and the problem was solved. > Fortunately, the default font is Arial, and that is both true type and > covering almost all of UCS (definitely cyrillic). I believe that > gettind rid of utf8_to_latin call shoul fix the problem, but I don't > know for sure. Please let me know if the output looks sane :-) After I've installed TrueType Unicode Arial (arialuni.ttf), all my problems disappeared. If you are interested, you can see the output here: PNG(260 KB): http://www.leonid.maks.net/family/trees/family.png or GIF(1 MB): http://www.leonid.maks.net/family/trees/family.gif > If this works, I think the utf8_to_latin should only be called when > Postscript Fonts are used. With the True Type, either Arial or FreeSans > should do the trick. Once we hear from the ttf-freefont maintainers, we > may switch from Arial to FreeSans. Please or please make it work out of the box! :) -- Leonid Mamtchenkov - one more happy user of gramps.:) http://www.leonid.maks.net |
From: Alex R. <sh...@al...> - 2004-03-11 20:07:44
|
On 03/11/2004 01:39:49 PM, Leonid Mamtchenkov wrote: > * Alex Roitman <sh...@al...> [10-Mar-2004 11:59]: > >> Replacing "utf8_to_latin(label)" with just "label" preserves the =20 >> utf8 text in the resulting dot file. Now, to get this working in=20 >> the output, one has to use (1) True Type font (2) covering the=20 >> portion of the Unicode Char Set (UCS) corresponding to the labels. >=20 > You are totally, completely and amazingly right! :) I've replaced > utf8_to_latin(label) with label and the problem was solved. Glad to hear that! I'll go ahead and remove that conversion for the=20 TrueType fonts. >> Fortunately, the default font is Arial, and that is both true type =20 >> and covering almost all of UCS (definitely cyrillic). I believe=20 >> that gettind rid of utf8_to_latin call shoul fix the problem, but I=20 >> don't know for sure. Please let me know if the output looks=20 >> sane :-) >=20 > After I've installed TrueType Unicode Arial (arialuni.ttf), all my > problems disappeared. If you are interested, you can see the output > here: [snip] Looks pretty :-) >> If this works, I think the utf8_to_latin should only be called when =20 >> Postscript Fonts are used. With the True Type, either Arial or =20 >> FreeSans should do the trick. Once we hear from the ttf-freefont =20 >> maintainers, we may switch from Arial to FreeSans. >=20 > Please or please make it work out of the box! :) This is somewhat tricky. To my knowledge, there's two somewhat complete=20 sets of true type UCS fonts: MS and FreeFont. MS fonts cannot be=20 redistributed, so one would have to either have them already installed=20 or go ahead and install them from the MS site. Freefont can be redistributed. Debian has ttf-freefont package that is=20 easily installable and works fine. On Debian, we can just recommend/ suggest this package and it'll be all set. With other distros, I have=20 no idea whether RPMs are available. I contacted freefont maintainers=20 and still got no response. I think, if we don't hear from them within=20 another week, we'll just have to package RPMs for ttf-freefont and re- distribute them along with gramps (as suggested package). Luckily,=20 freefont is GPL so we don't actually need any permissions. I just=20 thought we'll ask maintainers first in case RPMs are available=20 somewhere already. Now, if anybody feels up to this, the freefont tarball can be=20 downloaded from http://ftp.gnu.org/savannah/files/freefont/freefont-ttf-20020306.tar.gz Packaging it for RH/Fedora, Mandrake, and SuSE would really cover 99%=20 of our userbase, since Debian is already covered. The installation=20 instructions are pretty simple (unpack into whatever place, add this=20 place to /etc/X11/fs/config, restart Xfs, enjoy :-), so RPM-literal=20 users (I'm not one of those) can really help us out here. This would also be a big help with upcoming gnome-print plugin.=20 Alex --=20 Alexander Roitman http://ebner.neuroscience.umn.edu/people/alex.html Dept. of Neuroscience, Lions Research Building 2001 6th Street SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455 Tel (612) 625-7566 FAX (612) 626-9201 |
From: Alex R. <sh...@al...> - 2004-03-15 23:56:27
|
On 03/11/2004 01:39:49 PM, Leonid Mamtchenkov wrote: >=20 > You are totally, completely and amazingly right! :) I've replaced > utf8_to_latin(label) with label and the problem was solved. [snip] > Please or please make it work out of the box! :) This is fixed in CVS. I have switched the True Type font from Arial to =20 FreeSans and removed conversion to latin in case the TT font is used. =20 Should work out of the box, provided FreeSans is installed. Since freefont package is going to be required for the printing plugin =20 to work, users will see the message about freefont every time they =20 start gramps, unless they have it installed. Alex --=20 Alexander Roitman http://ebner.neuroscience.umn.edu/people/alex.html Dept. of Neuroscience, Lions Research Building 2001 6th Street SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455 Tel (612) 625-7566 FAX (612) 626-9201 |
From: Leonid M. <le...@le...> - 2004-03-16 00:05:55
|
* Alex Roitman <sh...@al...> [15-Mar-2004 17:56]: > >You are totally, completely and amazingly right! :) I've replaced > >utf8_to_latin(label) with label and the problem was solved. > [snip] > >Please or please make it work out of the box! :) > > This is fixed in CVS. I have switched the True Type font from Arial to > FreeSans and removed conversion to latin in case the TT font is used. > Should work out of the box, provided FreeSans is installed. Great! Thanks. :) > Since freefont package is going to be required for the printing plugin > to work, users will see the message about freefont every time they > start gramps, unless they have it installed. Maybe freefont should be added as requirement to RRPM's spec too. What do you think? -- Leonid Mamtchenkov. http://www.leonid.maks.net |
From: Alex R. <sh...@al...> - 2004-03-16 00:09:45
|
On 03/15/2004 06:05:44 PM, Leonid Mamtchenkov wrote: > Maybe freefont should be added as requirement to RRPM's spec too. > What do you think? I'm not sure about the specifics of RPM format. If there is a =20 Recommends or Suggests field (like there is in debian :-) then it would =20 make more sense to go with it. It's like ReportLab, PIL, and other niceties: not required for gramps =20 to work, but are nice to have available since it enables more =20 functionality. Alex --=20 Alexander Roitman http://ebner.neuroscience.umn.edu/people/alex.html Dept. of Neuroscience, Lions Research Building 2001 6th Street SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455 Tel (612) 625-7566 FAX (612) 626-9201 |
From: Richard B. <ra...@xs...> - 2004-03-11 20:40:26
|
Op donderdag 11 maart 2004 20:57, schreef Alex Roitman: > This is somewhat tricky. To my knowledge, there's two somewhat complete > sets of true type UCS fonts: MS and FreeFont. MS fonts cannot be > redistributed, so one would have to either have them already installed > or go ahead and install them from the MS site. Alex, can't you use bitstream-vera? It is free ttf font, I don't know if it is complete enough. -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless |
From: Alex R. <sh...@al...> - 2004-03-11 21:34:49
|
Richard, On 03/11/2004 02:29:43 PM, Richard Bos wrote: > Op donderdag 11 maart 2004 20:57, schreef Alex Roitman: >> This is somewhat tricky. To my knowledge, there's two somewhat =20 >> complete sets of true type UCS fonts: MS and FreeFont. MS fonts =20 >> cannot be redistributed, so one would have to either have them =20 >> already installed or go ahead and install them from the MS site. >=20 > can't you use bitstream-vera? > It is free ttf font, I don't know if it is complete enough. You're correct in that it is free. Unfortunately, bitsream vera fonts =20 cover only latin script. It means that cyrillic, chinese, georgian, =20 armenian, arabic, persian, etc. glyphs are not covered, and therefore =20 using bitstream vera will not accompish the task for a lot of users. We =20 could just as well use Sans which is ttf and shipped with Gnome. But we =20 really need broad UCS coverage, and it's the choice between MS and =20 freefont. Guess which one gets my vote :-) Do you think you could make a SuSE RPM from the freefont-ttf tarball? It would be great if you could. Alex --=20 Alexander Roitman http://ebner.neuroscience.umn.edu/people/alex.html Dept. of Neuroscience, Lions Research Building 2001 6th Street SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455 Tel (612) 625-7566 FAX (612) 626-9201 |
From: Richard B. <ra...@xs...> - 2004-03-11 21:49:10
|
Op donderdag 11 maart 2004 22:24, schreef Alex Roitman: > Do you think you could make a SuSE RPM from the freefont-ttf tarball? > > It would be great if you could. apt-info> zgrep freef pkg-9.0 freefont;0.20030914-17;noarch;base freefont;0.20030914-17;src;base 9.0-i386/RPMS.base $ rpm -qip freefont-0.20030914-17.noarch.rpm Name : freefont Relocations: (not relocateable) Version : 0.20030914 Vendor: SuSE Linux AG, URL : http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/freefont/ Summary : Free UCS Outline Fonts Description : A set of free outline (i.e. OpenType) fonts covering the ISO 10646/Unicode UCS (Universal Character Set). The set consists of three typefaces: one monospaced and two proportional (one with uniform and one with modulated stroke. Authors: -------- Primoz Peterlin <pri...@bi...> I think I can ;) -- Richard |
From: Alex R. <sh...@al...> - 2004-03-11 22:38:32
|
Richard and Leonid, Thanks a lot for coming up with these references! Could you please make sure that they install on your respective=20 distributions and work after they are installed? The easy way to check=20 it (at least for our purposes) is to use LPRDoc.py available at http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/gramps/gramps2/src/docgen/= LPRDoc.py Place it in your ~/.gramps/plugins and start gramps from the terminal.=20 If you see no output related to the fonts then Freefont fonts are=20 detected and will be used. Try printing/previewing any of ther reports=20 and see if you get sane output. If you get the output starting with the following line: LPRDoc: Free true type fonts not found. this means they are not found by gnomeprint so we will need to=20 investigate further. You may see the LPRDoc message related=20 to the photos and rotated text, but that's another story. I'm very curious to know if they do work properly.=20 Any volunteers testing freefont with gramps on Mandrake will be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks, Alex On 03/11/2004 03:37:57 PM, Richard Bos wrote: >> Do you think you could make a SuSE RPM from the freefont-ttf =20 >> tarball? > > I think I can ;) On 03/11/2004 03:51:45 PM, Leonid Mamtchenkov wrote: >=20 > It looks like Suse is already covered. Search for 'freefont' on > rpmfind.net returns a coupld of results. Here is a link: >=20 > http://fr2.rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=3Dfreefont&submit= =3DSearch+... >=20 > RPMs for Mandrake/RedHat/Fedora are available (or at least it looks > like) from here: >=20 > http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/17/dept/4/idg/System_Fonts_True+type > http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/17/dept/3/idg/User+Interface_X > http://apt.unl.edu/apt/fedora/all/RPMS.stable/ --=20 Alexander Roitman http://ebner.neuroscience.umn.edu/people/alex.html Dept. of Neuroscience, Lions Research Building 2001 6th Street SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455 Tel (612) 625-7566 FAX (612) 626-9201 |
From: Leonid M. <le...@le...> - 2004-03-13 02:28:28
|
Alex, * Alex Roitman <sh...@al...> [11-Mar-2004 16:27]: > Place it in your ~/.gramps/plugins and start gramps from the terminal. > If you see no output related to the fonts then Freefont fonts are > detected and will be used. Try printing/previewing any of ther reports > and see if you get sane output. > > If you get the output starting with the following line: > LPRDoc: Free true type fonts not found. Here is what I did with my Fedora box: - Remove all references to MS Arial fonts. - Install freefont-ttf RPM from http://linuxberg.vc-graz.ac.at/mirror/kde-redhat/fedora/all/RPMS.stable/ - Reboot (just in case XFS restart is lacking something :) ). - Start-up gramps (1.0.1) from console (no messages) - Export the whole database to GraphViz dot file. - Inspect dot file. It looks like gramps exported everything in Unicode, but the font inside the dot file is asked to be Arial. Here is a sample line: pI0040 [shape=box, URL="I0040.html", color=deeppink, fontname="Arial", label="... - Use GraphViz to convert dot file to PNG. Result has ugly symbols in and no cyrillic what-so-ever. :( I've also checked the Font selector in KDE and seems that it detects freefont-ttf fonts just fine. I don't know where is the problem now, but it seems that gramps missed the freetype fonts. I've checked the list of fonts in freefont-ttf RPM and there is no Arial. Here is a listing: $ rpm -ql freefont-ttf | grep -i ttf | grep -v doc /usr/share/fonts/freefont/FreeMono.ttf /usr/share/fonts/freefont/FreeMonoBold.ttf /usr/share/fonts/freefont/FreeMonoBoldOblique.ttf /usr/share/fonts/freefont/FreeMonoOblique.ttf /usr/share/fonts/freefont/FreeSans.ttf /usr/share/fonts/freefont/FreeSansBold.ttf /usr/share/fonts/freefont/FreeSansBoldOblique.ttf /usr/share/fonts/freefont/FreeSansOblique.ttf /usr/share/fonts/freefont/FreeSerif.ttf /usr/share/fonts/freefont/FreeSerifBold.ttf /usr/share/fonts/freefont/FreeSerifBoldItalic.ttf /usr/share/fonts/freefont/FreeSerifItalic.ttf Let me know if you want me to do any other tests. -- Leonid Mamtchenkov. http://www.leonid.maks.net |
From: Alex R. <sh...@al...> - 2004-03-13 04:33:32
|
Leonid, On Sat, Mar 13, 2004 at 04:28:01AM +0200, Leonid Mamtchenkov wrote: >=20 > Here is what I did with my Fedora box: >=20 > - Remove all references to MS Arial fonts. > - Install freefont-ttf RPM from > http://linuxberg.vc-graz.ac.at/mirror/kde-redhat/fedora/all/RPMS.stable/ > - Reboot (just in case XFS restart is lacking something :) ). > - Start-up gramps (1.0.1) from console (no messages) > - Export the whole database to GraphViz dot file. > - Inspect dot file. It looks like gramps exported everything in > Unicode, but the font inside the dot file is asked to be Arial. Here > is a sample line: > pI0040 [shape=3Dbox, URL=3D"I0040.html", color=3Ddeeppink, fontname=3D"= Arial", > label=3D"... > - Use GraphViz to convert dot file to PNG. Result has ugly symbols in > and no cyrillic what-so-ever. :( Right. I haven't changed the GraphViz plugin yet -- wanted to know first if freefont fonts will actually work. Could you please manually change "Arial" to "FreeSans" inside dot file and try generating PNG again. If that works then we'll switch to using FreeSans instead of Arial. GraphViz currently does not autodetects the fonts, it just has hard-coded Arial. > I've also checked the Font selector in KDE and seems that it detects > freefont-ttf fonts just fine. Good sign :-) > I don't know where is the problem now, but it seems that gramps missed > the freetype fonts. I've checked the list of fonts in freefont-ttf RPM > and there is no Arial. Here is a listing: [snip] There should not be. The freefont supplies FreeSerif, FreeSans, and FreeMon= o. While you're at it, could you also check how LPRDoc works with freefonts? That plugin should autodetect freefonts and will print the message if they are not found. Sorry for the mix-up :-) Thanks, Alex --=20 Alexander Roitman http://ebner.neuroscience.umn.edu/people/alex.html Dept. of Neuroscience, Lions Research Building 2001 6th Street SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455 Tel (612) 625-7566 FAX (612) 626-9201 |
From: Leonid M. <le...@le...> - 2004-03-13 08:30:06
|
* Alex Roitman <sh...@al...> [12-Mar-2004 22:33]: > > - Use GraphViz to convert dot file to PNG. Result has ugly symbols in > > and no cyrillic what-so-ever. :( > > Right. I haven't changed the GraphViz plugin yet -- wanted to know first if > freefont fonts will actually work. Could you please manually change "Arial" > to "FreeSans" inside dot file and try generating PNG again. I did it and it does work. Very nice output indeed. :) > If that works then we'll switch to using FreeSans instead of Arial. > GraphViz currently does not autodetects the fonts, it just has hard-coded > Arial. Just an idea: maybe gramps should ask X font server (xfs) for the font. :) > > I don't know where is the problem now, but it seems that gramps missed > > the freetype fonts. I've checked the list of fonts in freefont-ttf RPM > > and there is no Arial. Here is a listing: > [snip] > > There should not be. The freefont supplies FreeSerif, FreeSans, and FreeMono. > > While you're at it, could you also check how LPRDoc works with freefonts? > That plugin should autodetect freefonts and will print the message if they > are not found. Sorry for the mix-up :-) Sorry, but I don't have a printer. -- Leonid Mamtchenkov. http://www.leonid.maks.net |
From: Alex R. <sh...@al...> - 2004-03-13 19:36:08
|
On Sat, Mar 13, 2004 at 10:29:50AM +0200, Leonid Mamtchenkov wrote: > > Right. I haven't changed the GraphViz plugin yet -- wanted to know firs= t if > > freefont fonts will actually work. Could you please manually change "Ar= ial" > > to "FreeSans" inside dot file and try generating PNG again. >=20 > I did it and it does work. Very nice output indeed. :) OK, I'll switch the GraphViz to the freefont then. > > If that works then we'll switch to using FreeSans instead of Arial. > > GraphViz currently does not autodetects the fonts, it just has hard-cod= ed > > Arial. >=20 > Just an idea: maybe gramps should ask X font server (xfs) for the font. > :) It would be awesome. How do we find from the xfs that the font is true type and covers UCS? The former could be possible, the latter is not, I'm afraid. What we can do is to ask it first for FreeSans, and then, if FreeSans is not found, ask it for Arial. If that is not found either, we can go with Sans (shipped with Gnome), which is covering only latin script. We can't do miracles -- if the user does not have a font which has his glyphs,=20 then so be it :-) This scheme is currently implemented in LPRDoc.=20 > > While you're at it, could you also check how LPRDoc works with freefont= s? > > That plugin should autodetect freefonts and will print the message if t= hey > > are not found. Sorry for the mix-up :-) >=20 > Sorry, but I don't have a printer. Oh, that should not be a problem. I wrote most of my code and tested=20 everything on a laptop and it does not have a printing system set up.=20 Without a printer, you can create print preview (the easiest way to=20 check things if you ask me), or create PS/PDF files. Alex --=20 Alexander Roitman http://ebner.neuroscience.umn.edu/people/alex.html Dept. of Neuroscience, Lions Research Building 2001 6th Street SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455 Tel (612) 625-7566 FAX (612) 626-9201 |
From: Leonid M. <le...@le...> - 2004-03-11 22:02:36
|
* Alex Roitman <sh...@al...> [11-Mar-2004 15:24]: > Do you think you could make a SuSE RPM from the freefont-ttf tarball? > It would be great if you could. It looks like Suse is already covered. Search for 'freefont' on rpmfind.net returns a coupld of results. Here is a link: http://fr2.rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=freefont&submit=Search+... RPMs for Mandrake/RedHat/Fedora are available (or at least it looks like) from here: http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/17/dept/4/idg/System_Fonts_True+type http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/17/dept/3/idg/User+Interface_X http://apt.unl.edu/apt/fedora/all/RPMS.stable/ I haven't tried these myself, but it can be a start. :) -- Leonid Mamtchenkov. http://www.leonid.maks.net |
From: Alex R. <sh...@al...> - 2004-03-12 17:51:02
|
Gentlemen, Have you had a chance to give it a try yet? I'm dying to know the outcome, Alex On 03/11/2004 04:27:23 PM, Alex Roitman wrote: > Richard and Leonid, >=20 > Thanks a lot for coming up with these references! >=20 > Could you please make sure that they install on your respective > distributions and work after they are installed? The easy way to =20 > check it (at least for our purposes) is to use LPRDoc.py available at > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/gramps/gramps2/src/docge= n/LPRDoc.py >=20 > Place it in your ~/.gramps/plugins and start gramps from the =20 > terminal. >=20 > If you see no output related to the fonts then Freefont fonts are > detected and will be used. Try printing/previewing any of ther =20 > reports >=20 > and see if you get sane output. >=20 > If you get the output starting with the following line: > LPRDoc: Free true type fonts not found. >=20 > this means they are not found by gnomeprint so we will need to > investigate further. You may see the LPRDoc message related > to the photos and rotated text, but that's another story. --=20 Alexander Roitman http://ebner.neuroscience.umn.edu/people/alex.html Dept. of Neuroscience, Lions Research Building 2001 6th Street SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455 Tel (612) 625-7566 FAX (612) 626-9201 |
From: Leonid M. <le...@le...> - 2004-03-12 18:29:45
|
* Alex Roitman <sh...@al...> [12-Mar-2004 11:39]: > Gentlemen, > Have you had a chance to give it a try yet? Not yet. I will surely do it over the weekend. Sorry for the delay. :) > I'm dying to know the outcome, I know the feeling :) -- Leonid Mamtchenkov. http://www.leonid.maks.net |
From: Richard B. <ric...@xs...> - 2004-03-12 20:12:47
|
Op vrijdag 12 maart 2004 19:18, schreef Leonid Mamtchenkov: > * Alex Roitman <sh...@al...> [12-Mar-2004 11:39]: > > Gentlemen, > > Have you had a chance to give it a try yet? > > Not yet. =9AI will surely do it over the weekend. =9ASorry for the delay.= :) Alex, I tried, but I'm not familair not enough with gramps to test it. At the=20 moment I have just time enough to build it. Hopefully others can test it,= =20 sorry. =2D-=20 Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless |
From: Leonid M. <le...@le...> - 2004-03-16 03:14:33
|
* Alex Roitman <sh...@al...> [15-Mar-2004 18:09]: > On 03/15/2004 06:05:44 PM, Leonid Mamtchenkov wrote: > >Maybe freefont should be added as requirement to RRPM's spec too. > >What do you think? > > I'm not sure about the specifics of RPM format. If there is a > Recommends or Suggests field (like there is in debian :-) then it would > make more sense to go with it. > > It's like ReportLab, PIL, and other niceties: not required for gramps > to work, but are nice to have available since it enables more > functionality. There is a Requires field in RPM. It will force the user to install freefonts prior to gramps. Of course, those who don't want to follow this way can always to a "--nodeps" installation of gramps. "--nodeps" flag will ignore any dependencies such as freefont. -- Leonid Mamtchenkov. http://www.leonid.maks.net |
From: Alex R. <sh...@al...> - 2004-03-16 03:33:50
|
On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 05:14:21AM +0200, Leonid Mamtchenkov wrote: > * Alex Roitman <sh...@al...> [15-Mar-2004 18:09]: > >=20 > > I'm not sure about the specifics of RPM format. If there is a =20 > > Recommends or Suggests field (like there is in debian :-) then it would= =20 > > make more sense to go with it. > >=20 > > It's like ReportLab, PIL, and other niceties: not required for gramps = =20 > > to work, but are nice to have available since it enables more =20 > > functionality. >=20 > There is a Requires field in RPM. It will force the user to install > freefonts prior to gramps. Of course, those who don't want to follow > this way can always to a "--nodeps" installation of gramps. "--nodeps" > flag will ignore any dependencies such as freefont. I'm not sure we need to make this a requirement. I'm hesitant about forcing users to do something if it's not 100% essential to run gramps. It's nice that the dependencies could be overwritten, but maybe we're better of by maintaining a list of references to the freefont rpms and directing users to install this to get non-latin fonts in the print/GraphViz output? Again, I don't have a feel on how "required" is required field in RPM. Do most users feel OK about overriding it? Don, what do you think? Alex --=20 Alexander Roitman http://ebner.neuroscience.umn.edu/people/alex.html Dept. of Neuroscience, Lions Research Building 2001 6th Street SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455 Tel (612) 625-7566 FAX (612) 626-9201 |
From: Richard B. <ra...@xs...> - 2004-03-16 19:59:35
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Op dinsdag 16 maart 2004 04:33, schreef Alex Roitman: > I'm not sure we need to make this a requirement. I'm hesitant about forcing > users to do something if it's not 100% essential to run gramps. It's nice > that the dependencies could be overwritten, but maybe we're better of > by maintaining a list of references to the freefont rpms and directing > users to install this to get non-latin fonts in the print/GraphViz output? > > Again, I don't have a feel on how "required" is required field in RPM. > Do most users feel OK about overriding it? > > Don, what do you think? Alex, just require it! People don't need to pay for gramps neither for freefont, so what's the deal. Some download time, harddisk space?? It will save you questions later on, if people start using the plugin and it does not work.... I'll require freefonts in my suse gramps rpm. -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless |
From: <dpe...@si...> - 2004-03-16 20:41:24
|
On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Alex Roitman had this to say: >On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 05:14:21AM +0200, Leonid Mamtchenkov wrote: >> * Alex Roitman <sh...@al...> [15-Mar-2004 18:09]: >> > >> > I'm not sure about the specifics of RPM format. If there is a >> > Recommends or Suggests field (like there is in debian :-) then it would > >> > make more sense to go with it. >> > >> > It's like ReportLab, PIL, and other niceties: not required for gramps >> > to work, but are nice to have available since it enables more >> > functionality. >> >> There is a Requires field in RPM. It will force the user to install >> freefonts prior to gramps. Of course, those who don't want to follow >> this way can always to a "--nodeps" installation of gramps. "--nodeps" >> flag will ignore any dependencies such as freefont. > >I'm not sure we need to make this a requirement. I'm hesitant about forcing >users to do something if it's not 100% essential to run gramps. It's nice >that the dependencies could be overwritten, but maybe we're better of >by maintaining a list of references to the freefont rpms and directing >users to install this to get non-latin fonts in the print/GraphViz output? I'm with Alex on this one. The "required" field (IMHO) should be used only for _truly_ required dependencies. I have two problems with using the --nodeps overriding: first, why should Aunt Tillie have to know more about rpm than necessary. If the initial install fails because of an unneeded dependency, then how does she konw whether it really is OK to use --nodeps (if she even knows that --nodeps is an option)? This is just asking/making her do more work than is really necessary and adds a barrier to use. Second, once one begins down the Dark Path of --nodeps, where does it end? In general, using --nodeps willy-nilly is a sure way to screw up one's system. Sure, in this case (gramps) overriding the freefont dependency causes no harm. But, if Aunt Tillie gets away with it now, what's to stop her from installing an incompatable glibc and breaking half of the apps on her system? A better solution would be to add text in the %description section of the spec (the text that is printed from an 'rpm -qi') that advises the user about the enhancement and improved user experience that can be obtained by installing the freefont package. An even better solution might be to use the %post section to display a message (i.e. "cat extras.txt") that tells the user that gramps has been successfully installed, and that they may wish to explore adding package X for improved report output. This could also (briefly!) describe ReportLab, GraphViz, and other useful packages. That's my take on it, -Don -- ________________________________________________ Donald A. Peterson | dpe...@si... Physics Division | PH: (630) 252-6870 Argonne National Lab | FAX: (630) 252-0210 ------------------------------------------------ |
From: Graeme N. <gni...@tp...> - 2004-03-24 01:20:40
|
I'm with Alex and Don Petersen on this one. What Don says makes excellent sense!! Any other way is inviting disaster. Graeme. On Wed, 2004-03-17 at 07:41, dpe...@si... wrote: > On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Alex Roitman had this to say: >=20 > >On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 05:14:21AM +0200, Leonid Mamtchenkov wrote: > >> * Alex Roitman <sh...@al...> [15-Mar-2004 18:09]: > >> >=20 > >> > I'm not sure about the specifics of RPM format. If there is a =20 > >> > Recommends or Suggests field (like there is in debian :-) then it wo= uld > > > >> > make more sense to go with it. > >> >=20 > >> > It's like ReportLab, PIL, and other niceties: not required for gramp= s =20 > >> > to work, but are nice to have available since it enables more =20 > >> > functionality. > >>=20 > >> There is a Requires field in RPM. It will force the user to install > >> freefonts prior to gramps. Of course, those who don't want to follow > >> this way can always to a "--nodeps" installation of gramps. "--nodeps= " > >> flag will ignore any dependencies such as freefont. > > > >I'm not sure we need to make this a requirement. I'm hesitant about forc= ing > >users to do something if it's not 100% essential to run gramps. It's nic= e > >that the dependencies could be overwritten, but maybe we're better of > >by maintaining a list of references to the freefont rpms and directing > >users to install this to get non-latin fonts in the print/GraphViz outpu= t? >=20 > I'm with Alex on this one. The "required" field (IMHO) should be used=20 > only for _truly_ required dependencies. I have two problems with using=20 > the --nodeps overriding: first, why should Aunt Tillie have to know more=20 > about rpm than necessary. If the initial install fails because of an=20 > unneeded dependency, then how does she konw whether it really is OK to=20 > use --nodeps (if she even knows that --nodeps is an option)? This is jus= t=20 > asking/making her do more work than is really necessary and adds a barrie= r=20 > to use. Second, once one begins down the Dark Path of --nodeps, where=20 > does it end? In general, using --nodeps willy-nilly is a sure way to=20 > screw up one's system. Sure, in this case (gramps) overriding the=20 > freefont dependency causes no harm. But, if Aunt Tillie gets away with i= t=20 > now, what's to stop her from installing an incompatable glibc and breakin= g=20 > half of the apps on her system? =20 >=20 > A better solution would be to add text in the %description section of the > spec (the text that is printed from an 'rpm -qi') that advises the user > about the enhancement and improved user experience that can be obtained b= y > installing the freefont package. An even better solution might be to use > the %post section to display a message (i.e. "cat extras.txt") that=20 > tells the user that gramps has been successfully installed, and that they= =20 > may wish to explore adding package X for improved report output. This=20 > could also (briefly!) describe ReportLab, GraphViz, and other useful=20 > packages. >=20 > That's my take on it, > -Don > --=20 > ________________________________________________ > Donald A. Peterson | dpe...@si... > Physics Division | PH: (630) 252-6870 > Argonne National Lab | FAX: (630) 252-0210 > ------------------------------------------------ >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials > Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of > GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system > administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D1470&alloc_id=3D3638&op=3Dcli= ck > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-users mailing list > Gra...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users >=20 --=20 Kind regards, Graeme Nichols ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence that it is not utterly absurd; indeed, in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more often likely to be foolish than sensible. -- Bertrand Russell, in "Marriage and Morals", 1929 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - IMPORTANT. - - The contents of this email and any attachments, which may be con- - =20 - fidential, are sent for the personal attention of the addressee/s - - only. If you receive this email and are not the intended addressee - - please inform the sender and delete this email immediately. Use, - - copying, disclosure or forwarding of the contents of this email - - and/or any attachment/s is not authourised. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |