iBATIS is growing fast. We have nearly 8x the number of regular downloads that we had a year ago. The forums and mailing lists are vibrant, feature requests (ahem, and bug reports) are rolling in. We want to make iBATIS flexible, pluggable, extendible, configurable, portable, deployable etc. etc. (i.e. we want to be buzzword compliant). ;-)
More important is that we want YOU to be a bigger part of it.
Apache is well known for their web server and the Jakarta project. They are also known as leaders in community based development and quality software.
The iBATIS project would benefit heavily from this relationship in terms of infrastructure, support and expertiese. However, we wouldn't be arriving at the door empty handed. iBATIS is accepted by the community and its peers as a viable approach for database access. Soon it will be the one of the first solutions (possibly THE first) that can be leveraged in a consistent and portable fashion for both Java and .Net applications. Furthurmore, because iBATIS is based solely on SQL and XML, we believe that it is more durable to change than any other data mapping solution available.
We've come a long way, but we have a long way to go. The iBATIS team wants to ensure that we are doing the best thing for YOU, our community.
So I'd like to open the floor now to the community and ask you for your thoughts.
What would you think if iBATIS joined Apache?
Best regards,
Clinton Begin
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As a jakarta PMC member I think it is a great news! Apache and Jakarta brands have a reputation among developers and most organizations that will certainly be of benefit to iBATIS. I totally agree that iBATIS is a very simple and effective solution that will be a valuable addition to the Jakarta line of products. So I whole-heartedly support the idea. If you need any help coordinating the move, if and when that happens, I will be glad to lend a helping hand.
Cheers,
Harish
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i agree that this would be a wonderful marriage. we are using ibatis happily and also using many jakarta projects. jakarta adds credibility and more importantly visibility for ibatis.
and it would be interesting to have a .net product in the jakarta world :)
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You have my vote for joining Apache. As long as the benefits outweigh the extra procedural overhead, it's a great move. iBATIS is a brilliant solution for database access and deserves all the support it can get.
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I think Clinton means that we could apply to join the ASF as a top-level Apache project, like Apache Logging <logging.apache.org>.
There is also an Apache database project that we could join <database.apache.org>. But that decision could be made as part of the "incubation" process that all new codebases pass through <incubator.apache.org>. For now, the important thing would just be whether iBATIS should apply to the ASF at all.
Of course, as an ASF member and iBATIS developer, I would do everything I could to support an application to join Apache. So, "+1" from me :)
-Ted.
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Yes, if the intent is to make it an umbrella project that houses various ports of the technology then I do agree that it belongs at the top level. Either way I support the idea.
-Harish
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I'm all for it. I spent a long time hunting for, and rejecting, Java<->DB solutions, and a solution as good as iBatis deserves to be in a prominent position.
<rant>The OR community is in a real state. It seems that every single solution, while nice in the brochure, makes the deadly assumption that they can automate an SQL query. This simply isn't true. SqlMap is fantastic because it accepts that understanding a query and a map are the kind of things that humans do well, and all the footwork in between is something a computer does well. This is exactly the seperation of responsibilities you see in every programming language: human beings take care of the intuitive, experienced stuff that we're good at, and the computer does all the footwork that we hate.
</rant>
Crystal ball in hand, I think that most OR stuff will implode. Or, at the very least, a lot of people will become disillusioned when they find that "transparent mapping" quickly turns into "impenetrable architecture". When that happens, iBatis ought to be there. It ought to be right there in programmer's minds when they scream at the stupidity of their auto-generated query. It ought to even be there on day one, when they say, "Hey - that looks like the simplest way to do it."
Go for Apache. iBatis deserves the prominence that the foundation will bring. Java<->Database programmers deserve to find this solution easily when they realise they need it.
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iBatis is a great project that will get more awareness thru Apache. But I hope you dont get caught up in the political mess that is some Apache projects :-/
Tim in Tampa :)
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Clinton, when we evaluated iBatis for our development framework the only drawback we found was that iBatis does not seem to be backed by a huge community. It seems that it depends solely on you (yeah, I know there's more people behind the scenes). Anyway we have choosen iBatis over other solutions from bigger communities. Joining ASF will not make the software better but from our point of view it would be a good point for the project.
So, if I were you I would join iBatis to ASF.
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iBATIS should join Apache. It does not matter, that there is already the OJB project. iBATIS is the better approach for experienced SQL folks. OJB and iBATIS as Apache projects is just like Struts and Tapestry. Different approaches for different needs.
Besides, iBATIS will improve its (already brilliant) reputation and acceptance when joining Apache.
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When I first pushed for iBatis here at work most people I worked with hadn't heard of it. The initial problem was convincing people to try and use it.
Being a member of apache would mean that it would be taken more seriously and would speed up its adoption. We use all manner of Jakarta products (commons, httpclient, digester, tomcat, etc etc) as they are reknown for there quality and community support. iBatis should be up there with these as well.
Carry on the great work.
Cheers,
M
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Yes - I too agree. iBAITs/iBatis is a quality software and serves a niche that is not handled well by other persistence software. I think that if you move it to ASF, then peripheral development such as developing IDE plugins, etc. would become accelerated. The other element is psychological: ASF project & products have a aura of quality such that I usually prefer ASF software in Beta of other less regimented softwares in their Production release state. This will help build awareness and acceptance of iBatis.
Go Team iBatis!
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I use iBATIS since version series 1.1.x and it is evolving in a rock solid and consistent pace.
As someone already told, joining Apache won't make iBATIS better than already it is, but will give it a very strong brand. Being short, our bosses will think of iBATIS more seriously if they hear it is an Apache project.
My 2 cents.
Cheers,
Daniel Silva.
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Hi everyone,
iBATIS is growing fast. We have nearly 8x the number of regular downloads that we had a year ago. The forums and mailing lists are vibrant, feature requests (ahem, and bug reports) are rolling in. We want to make iBATIS flexible, pluggable, extendible, configurable, portable, deployable etc. etc. (i.e. we want to be buzzword compliant). ;-)
More important is that we want YOU to be a bigger part of it.
Apache is well known for their web server and the Jakarta project. They are also known as leaders in community based development and quality software.
The iBATIS project would benefit heavily from this relationship in terms of infrastructure, support and expertiese. However, we wouldn't be arriving at the door empty handed. iBATIS is accepted by the community and its peers as a viable approach for database access. Soon it will be the one of the first solutions (possibly THE first) that can be leveraged in a consistent and portable fashion for both Java and .Net applications. Furthurmore, because iBATIS is based solely on SQL and XML, we believe that it is more durable to change than any other data mapping solution available.
We've come a long way, but we have a long way to go. The iBATIS team wants to ensure that we are doing the best thing for YOU, our community.
So I'd like to open the floor now to the community and ask you for your thoughts.
What would you think if iBATIS joined Apache?
Best regards,
Clinton Begin
As a jakarta PMC member I think it is a great news! Apache and Jakarta brands have a reputation among developers and most organizations that will certainly be of benefit to iBATIS. I totally agree that iBATIS is a very simple and effective solution that will be a valuable addition to the Jakarta line of products. So I whole-heartedly support the idea. If you need any help coordinating the move, if and when that happens, I will be glad to lend a helping hand.
Cheers,
Harish
i agree that this would be a wonderful marriage. we are using ibatis happily and also using many jakarta projects. jakarta adds credibility and more importantly visibility for ibatis.
and it would be interesting to have a .net product in the jakarta world :)
You have my vote for joining Apache. As long as the benefits outweigh the extra procedural overhead, it's a great move. iBATIS is a brilliant solution for database access and deserves all the support it can get.
It's all good to me. As long as we can continue to refine and expand iBatis... I'm happy.
> Jakarta
I think Clinton means that we could apply to join the ASF as a top-level Apache project, like Apache Logging <logging.apache.org>.
There is also an Apache database project that we could join <database.apache.org>. But that decision could be made as part of the "incubation" process that all new codebases pass through <incubator.apache.org>. For now, the important thing would just be whether iBATIS should apply to the ASF at all.
Of course, as an ASF member and iBATIS developer, I would do everything I could to support an application to join Apache. So, "+1" from me :)
-Ted.
Yes, if the intent is to make it an umbrella project that houses various ports of the technology then I do agree that it belongs at the top level. Either way I support the idea.
-Harish
Absolutely!
Definately a good move!
Heheh, but we should figure out how to spell the name first. :)
iBAITS != iBATIS
Man, and from me of all people.
That is hilarious. :-)
Yes...I vote for it. It would be great if iBATIS moves under the Apache umbrella.
- Satish
+1 from me.
That's the just the kind of feather - ahem- you need in the cap! :)
I'm all for it. I spent a long time hunting for, and rejecting, Java<->DB solutions, and a solution as good as iBatis deserves to be in a prominent position.
<rant>The OR community is in a real state. It seems that every single solution, while nice in the brochure, makes the deadly assumption that they can automate an SQL query. This simply isn't true. SqlMap is fantastic because it accepts that understanding a query and a map are the kind of things that humans do well, and all the footwork in between is something a computer does well. This is exactly the seperation of responsibilities you see in every programming language: human beings take care of the intuitive, experienced stuff that we're good at, and the computer does all the footwork that we hate.
</rant>
Crystal ball in hand, I think that most OR stuff will implode. Or, at the very least, a lot of people will become disillusioned when they find that "transparent mapping" quickly turns into "impenetrable architecture". When that happens, iBatis ought to be there. It ought to be right there in programmer's minds when they scream at the stupidity of their auto-generated query. It ought to even be there on day one, when they say, "Hey - that looks like the simplest way to do it."
Go for Apache. iBatis deserves the prominence that the foundation will bring. Java<->Database programmers deserve to find this solution easily when they realise they need it.
+1
You should be aware that they have a process that can be a bit touchy.
.V
Join Apache, good move.
About time too ;-)
It would be great to see iBatis at Apache. Go Flames!
Steve
You mean go Tampa Bay?
iBatis is a great project that will get more awareness thru Apache. But I hope you dont get caught up in the political mess that is some Apache projects :-/
Tim in Tampa :)
这样最好啦，可以得到更快的发展！
Clinton, when we evaluated iBatis for our development framework the only drawback we found was that iBatis does not seem to be backed by a huge community. It seems that it depends solely on you (yeah, I know there's more people behind the scenes). Anyway we have choosen iBatis over other solutions from bigger communities. Joining ASF will not make the software better but from our point of view it would be a good point for the project.
So, if I were you I would join iBatis to ASF.
iBATIS should join Apache. It does not matter, that there is already the OJB project. iBATIS is the better approach for experienced SQL folks. OJB and iBATIS as Apache projects is just like Struts and Tapestry. Different approaches for different needs.
Besides, iBATIS will improve its (already brilliant) reputation and acceptance when joining Apache.
Yes.
By joining Apache iBatis gets a formal entry, a sort of official status and visibility which can only help.
A big concern is that along with Molson we may see iBatis absorbed, lost in the suds, and loose its Maple Leaf. I hope it does not.
Great work;
jfz.
Yes. Most definately.
When I first pushed for iBatis here at work most people I worked with hadn't heard of it. The initial problem was convincing people to try and use it.
Being a member of apache would mean that it would be taken more seriously and would speed up its adoption. We use all manner of Jakarta products (commons, httpclient, digester, tomcat, etc etc) as they are reknown for there quality and community support. iBatis should be up there with these as well.
Carry on the great work.
Cheers,
M
Yes - I too agree. iBAITs/iBatis is a quality software and serves a niche that is not handled well by other persistence software. I think that if you move it to ASF, then peripheral development such as developing IDE plugins, etc. would become accelerated. The other element is psychological: ASF project & products have a aura of quality such that I usually prefer ASF software in Beta of other less regimented softwares in their Production release state. This will help build awareness and acceptance of iBatis.
Go Team iBatis!
I use iBATIS since version series 1.1.x and it is evolving in a rock solid and consistent pace.
As someone already told, joining Apache won't make iBATIS better than already it is, but will give it a very strong brand. Being short, our bosses will think of iBATIS more seriously if they hear it is an Apache project.
My 2 cents.
Cheers,
Daniel Silva.