The name long versus short node doesn't seem intuitive at presentt. What is the reason to stick to these names ?
Freeplane is more simple to understand (for new users) an use (for more situations) if the long node i would be made the default. Could there at least be an option to choose which type is the default ?
What is the reason to have both plane text short node editor and long node editor, except history.
Why not make long node editor the default ? Freeplane could decide after editing is finished if the edited text is plane text or not. It is easier for less advanced users and more flexible for advanced users.
The
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I agree that 'long node' seems to be a relict that is not easily understandable.
I almost never use the popup editor (is this a proper name for it?) since I generally find popups disruptive and try to avoid them whereever possible. It's a great feature of Freeplane that it works that nice (in contrast to FreeMind).
And what the default should be? Don't know.
Volker
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I use 99% plain text. I think that the actual English name isn't easy to
understand. I propose "Plain text" and "Advanced Text".
I some cases "Advanced text" is fantastic, and I can't work without it.
The very distinguish characteristic of Freeplane is the rapidity to create a
map. The actually choice to have "plain text" as default is right.
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The term "Rich Text Node" might be more descriptive than "Advanced Text". Rich
Text Format (RTF) is a well-known term in English. Would "Rich Text Node"
translate well into other languages?
Regards,
jayseye
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I agree with jokro that it is not intuitive to have two different methods of
entering text in a node.
This forces the user to think about the formatting of the text prior entering
it (e.g. do I want to make some text bold?...). The other way would be right:
the user has entered some text and then he decides to make something bold.
But I also agree with volker that popups interrupt the workflow and should be
avoided.
Maybe the solution could be to integrate the popup editor in the short text
editor to unify the text entering in nodes.
I think it could work like this:
when entering text to a node you use the short text editor. So for normal editing nothing changes.
add an ability to display the controls of the long text editor on top of the node in the map (this could be an icon and/or a shortcut). So all editing will take place at the node in the map.
let Freeplane decide whether to store the text as plain or html-text.
This way we could unify the text entering method to nodes.
What do you think about this?
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we have only limited developer resources. We can not do any improvement one
can think of. We should concentrate on high impact low effort tasks.
As a developer I can estimate an effort. I think changing the way how the rich
text editor is integrated into the program can not be solved just in a couple
of days. Also it is not a low effort task.
Is it a high impact task? I can estimate an impact on the way how I use the
program. Actually I never use any of the rich text features. I can not
estimate the impact on the way the other users use the program. Also we need a
kind of ranking. We need a kind of infrastructure the users could vote for
feature requests that as they think do have the highest relevance. Until now
we had forum and mantis for collecting the user opinions. Do we need another
ways of communicating and voting?
I am afraid if I enable another web apps available for the SF projects like
ideatorrent (http://ideatorrent.org/documentation) or limesurvey
(http://docs.limesurvey.org/) there will be
too many alternative communication channels. On the other side right now the
decision about what feature request has the highest impact on the program is
taken by developers based only on their personal intuition and interests.
Regards,
Dimitry
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maybe you've never used the rich text feature because it' s some extra effort.
I use the rich text feature sometimes to give a better overview by making some
keywords in the nodes bold (e.g. see the german help-map).
The way it is now works, but it's confusing for beginners (at least it was for
me). You can do the formatting, but it's some extra effort because you have to
plan the formatting in advance or reopen the node with the editor to do it
afterwards.
I think the current implementation doesn't encourage people to use this
feature. Would a change have a big impact on the way I work with Freeplane?
Well, I would use this feature more often, for sure.
Concerning the other question whether we need some feature voting: As far as I
understand the development process of Freeplane you have to convince some
developer to implement a feature you're asking for. Would it be convincing for
you if some 20 people vote for this? What if a lot of people vote for a
feature and no one is implementing it because it's to complicated, or he has
some other interests? We can't force someone to do something...
BR
Stefan
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in the french translation I have already clarified the 2 editing modes with :
. "texte brut" for plain text node
. "texte riche" for long node / advanced text or rich text.
I agree with Dimitry to focus on more relevant improvments
It could be interesting to "vote" for some features selected by the development team based on their choice. Let's say we could include X (for instance 3 to 5) "user voted features" in each major release.
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Hi Dimitry,
I am very thankful for the improvement going from Freemind to Freeplane. For
that reason I am pushing it (in my spare time) in a primary and secondary
school environment, to be used by children, because it helps them in a variety
of ways to learn and work better. Simplicity and rich text are keys to success
here, especially for children which are slow learners. The present way of
switching between plain and rich text makes some of tem frustrated an lose
interest in using Freeplane. I am very sorry for this, as Freeplane can be a
big help for especially these children. I hope this might help you to consider
adding the menu option of making the RTF editor the default one. In my
personal working environment I use the RTF-editor a lot in preparion
presentations where formerly I used powerpoint. So I would also be pleased for
this option for a personal reason. Finally, I have done a lot of programming
in a former life. Is it really so much effort to add this menu option ?
Whatever you decide, thanks again for your effort. I will continue promoting
Freeplane on the Dutch gallery page. I am now preparing videos for this page
to help the children mentioned before in using Freeplane at school and at
home, without the need of a teacher to be present all the time.
Jokro
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Possibility to switch between those (automaticly?)
Which selection should be the default?
But the question how to set the default to Rich Text might be a simple one: If
you manage to open an editor the first time by Alt + Enter you are asked if
you want to use Rich Text. If you answer yes + don't ask again then the
default is changed, right? If not, please try Tools -> Preferences -> Behavior
-> Use formatting for all nodes -> Yes.
It might make sense to ask this question already during installation, but I
doubt that since most users won't understand the question.
Volker
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Hi Volker,
Thanks for your message. Aparently I did not make myself clear. With the
procedure you suggest one has to use alt-enter for each new node at least
once. This is a problem for the children I mentioned because in creating an
new node, they happen to accidentally open it (as a short node) and then alt-
enter does not work until the edit mode is finished. Opening the node in RTF
directly after creation with e.g. Insert would prevent this situation to
happen. Do you see my point ?
Jokro
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I re-checked it now - you are right. But in my eyes it's just a bug that the
rich text editor does not open if you have set 'Use formatting for all nodes'
to Yes. We had another discussion about this option where this option led to
confusion. I think it just doesn't work as it should.
Direct switching from inline editor to popup would be a nice feature.
So here's my proposal: add a bug for the first problem to Mantis and a feature
request for the second.
And for the remaining point, I propose to replace in the Dutch documentation:
Long Node by Extended format (Uitgebreide opmaak); and
Short Node by Simple format (Eenvoudige opmaak).
Al least in Dutch ths is most clear for the audience I am presently focussing
on.
Concerning your last point, at the moment I want to focus on making Freeplane
used in the educational environment. After that I might consider your
suggestion.
Jokro
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Jokro,
you have entered 00000786 as a request for a new feature, but the problem is
actually that it is a bug, and a very nasty one for the user since it blocks
the formatting of the root node (while you can RTF format all other nodes).
This bug still shows in 1.2.1_23. See Mantis, issue 813: https://sourceforge.
net/apps/mantisbt/freeplane/view.php?id=813 (sourceforge.net)
Regards
Andrés
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Hi all
i want add my opinion about Edit node and Edit long node.
When I make mind map I want to have quick mode for inserting text a this is Edit node mode. The philosophy of making MM is fast input, and one word on branch ( node ). So my proposal is that standard input will be simple edit node without any question on first start of Freeplane Do you want use rich...., beacuse if user answer is yes, in each input they will get SimplyHtml window and this is very irritating.
If the user decides to use a better formatted text will select the function Edit long node, and after that he should see a window SimplyHTML. In the current alpha version of Freeplane this is not like that, when you select Edit long node function you will get a window that not resembles SimplyHTML window and I think it's a bug.See pictures on my bug reporte https://sourceforge.net/apps/mantisbt/freeplane/view.php?id=813.
Because is this very important for nice work in Freeplane please be kind and
set this like in stable version.
Beacue is Edit long node function enough for better formatting text I suggest that we remowe function in Format menu--> Use rich formatting.
Regards
Predrag
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Hi pegi7,
I use Freeplane 1.1.2 and get the correct windows, not the one you show in
your bug report.
I read your proposal to mean that menu Edit>"Edit Long node" has to set all
future editing to be SimplyHTML, until "Edit>Edit Short node" is issued. To me
thisis an excellent idea, it would solve my problem in cases you need to
define mostly RTF text, as in writing documentation....
Jokro
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I implemented support for rich text in inline editor and disabled the non
formatting long node editor.
For text formatting there are actions in its pop-up menu which are also
available by accelerator keys.
The action are enabled only if some text is highlighted.
Now the inline editor comes always if the more feature rich long node editor
was not explicitly wished.
I hope you enjoy it. Share your happiness with me.
Preview 1.2.1_24 .
Dimitry
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Dimitry, rich text within inline editor, this was the perfect solution, thanks
a lot!!!
The extra line in new node problem in 1.2.1.24 is gone in 1.2.1_25, which is
even more excellent:) But this time, in 1.2.1_25, you cannot see when you
actually enter <enter> for a new line in new node (Shift+Enter): that is, you
cannot see the new line entered in a 'new node' with shift+enter; although the
action is actually fulfilled (and you can see it and edit once you left the
new node).
Ayca</enter>
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Hi Dimitry,
you have done it ! I am also impressed by the other improvements of 1.2x. Will
start translation for this now. But please do also install dutch properties
and doc files for 1.1.2.?!
Thanks again.
Jokro
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Hi Dimitri,
I am fully enjoyning the inline editor. One point could be improved except for
the bug mentioned at post 22: to invoke bold, Italic etc. one has to pass a
secundary menu. This unnessicarily slows down the action. Further it would be
nice to have also installed Dutch language for testing spell check (I will add
it manually for now).
Regards
Jokro
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Freeplane is more simple to understand (for new users) an use (for more situations) if the long node i would be made the default. Could there at least be an option to choose which type is the default ?
What is the reason to have both plane text short node editor and long node editor, except history.
And what the default should be? Don't know.
Volker
I use 99% plain text. I think that the actual English name isn't easy to
understand. I propose "Plain text" and "Advanced Text".
I some cases "Advanced text" is fantastic, and I can't work without it.
The very distinguish characteristic of Freeplane is the rapidity to create a
map. The actually choice to have "plain text" as default is right.
+1 for "Plain Text Node"
The term "Rich Text Node" might be more descriptive than "Advanced Text". Rich
Text Format (RTF) is a well-known term in English. Would "Rich Text Node"
translate well into other languages?
Regards,
jayseye
Hi!
I agree with jokro that it is not intuitive to have two different methods of
entering text in a node.
This forces the user to think about the formatting of the text prior entering
it (e.g. do I want to make some text bold?...). The other way would be right:
the user has entered some text and then he decides to make something bold.
But I also agree with volker that popups interrupt the workflow and should be
avoided.
Maybe the solution could be to integrate the popup editor in the short text
editor to unify the text entering in nodes.
I think it could work like this:
This way we could unify the text entering method to nodes.
What do you think about this?
Hi,
we have only limited developer resources. We can not do any improvement one
can think of. We should concentrate on high impact low effort tasks.
As a developer I can estimate an effort. I think changing the way how the rich
text editor is integrated into the program can not be solved just in a couple
of days. Also it is not a low effort task.
Is it a high impact task? I can estimate an impact on the way how I use the
program. Actually I never use any of the rich text features. I can not
estimate the impact on the way the other users use the program. Also we need a
kind of ranking. We need a kind of infrastructure the users could vote for
feature requests that as they think do have the highest relevance. Until now
we had forum and mantis for collecting the user opinions. Do we need another
ways of communicating and voting?
I am afraid if I enable another web apps available for the SF projects like
ideatorrent (http://ideatorrent.org/documentation) or limesurvey
(http://docs.limesurvey.org/) there will be
too many alternative communication channels. On the other side right now the
decision about what feature request has the highest impact on the program is
taken by developers based only on their personal intuition and interests.
Regards,
Dimitry
Hi Dimitry,
maybe you've never used the rich text feature because it' s some extra effort.
I use the rich text feature sometimes to give a better overview by making some
keywords in the nodes bold (e.g. see the german help-map).
The way it is now works, but it's confusing for beginners (at least it was for
me). You can do the formatting, but it's some extra effort because you have to
plan the formatting in advance or reopen the node with the editor to do it
afterwards.
I think the current implementation doesn't encourage people to use this
feature. Would a change have a big impact on the way I work with Freeplane?
Well, I would use this feature more often, for sure.
Concerning the other question whether we need some feature voting: As far as I
understand the development process of Freeplane you have to convince some
developer to implement a feature you're asking for. Would it be convincing for
you if some 20 people vote for this? What if a lot of people vote for a
feature and no one is implementing it because it's to complicated, or he has
some other interests? We can't force someone to do something...
BR
Stefan
Hello,
Here is my 2 cents opinion :
in the french translation I have already clarified the 2 editing modes with :
. "texte brut" for plain text node
. "texte riche" for long node / advanced text or rich text.
I agree with Dimitry to focus on more relevant improvments
It could be interesting to "vote" for some features selected by the development team based on their choice. Let's say we could include X (for instance 3 to 5) "user voted features" in each major release.
Hi Dimitry,
I am very thankful for the improvement going from Freemind to Freeplane. For
that reason I am pushing it (in my spare time) in a primary and secondary
school environment, to be used by children, because it helps them in a variety
of ways to learn and work better. Simplicity and rich text are keys to success
here, especially for children which are slow learners. The present way of
switching between plain and rich text makes some of tem frustrated an lose
interest in using Freeplane. I am very sorry for this, as Freeplane can be a
big help for especially these children. I hope this might help you to consider
adding the menu option of making the RTF editor the default one. In my
personal working environment I use the RTF-editor a lot in preparion
presentations where formerly I used powerpoint. So I would also be pleased for
this option for a personal reason. Finally, I have done a lot of programming
in a former life. Is it really so much effort to add this menu option ?
Whatever you decide, thanks again for your effort. I will continue promoting
Freeplane on the Dutch gallery page. I am now preparing videos for this page
to help the children mentioned before in using Freeplane at school and at
home, without the need of a teacher to be present all the time.
Jokro
Hello Jokro,
this thread touches many questions:
But the question how to set the default to Rich Text might be a simple one: If
you manage to open an editor the first time by Alt + Enter you are asked if
you want to use Rich Text. If you answer yes + don't ask again then the
default is changed, right? If not, please try Tools -> Preferences -> Behavior
-> Use formatting for all nodes -> Yes.
It might make sense to ask this question already during installation, but I
doubt that since most users won't understand the question.
Volker
Hi Volker,
Thanks for your message. Aparently I did not make myself clear. With the
procedure you suggest one has to use alt-enter for each new node at least
once. This is a problem for the children I mentioned because in creating an
new node, they happen to accidentally open it (as a short node) and then alt-
enter does not work until the edit mode is finished. Opening the node in RTF
directly after creation with e.g. Insert would prevent this situation to
happen. Do you see my point ?
Jokro
Hello Jokro,
I re-checked it now - you are right. But in my eyes it's just a bug that the
rich text editor does not open if you have set 'Use formatting for all nodes'
to Yes. We had another discussion about this option where this option led to
confusion. I think it just doesn't work as it should.
Direct switching from inline editor to popup would be a nice feature.
So here's my proposal: add a bug for the first problem to Mantis and a feature
request for the second.
You are welcome to Freeplane development if you'ld like to tackle these tasks
yourself. The developer category in the Wiki http://freeplane.sourceforge.net
/wiki/index.php/Category:Developer_Documentation would be a good starting
point.
Volker
Hello Volker,
so done. Thanks.
And for the remaining point, I propose to replace in the Dutch documentation:
Al least in Dutch ths is most clear for the audience I am presently focussing
on.
Concerning your last point, at the moment I want to focus on making Freeplane
used in the educational environment. After that I might consider your
suggestion.
Jokro
Hello Jokro,
please post the Mantis ID here for future reference.
Regarding the translation: These are up to the translators. Please use the
normal way for updating the translation, see
http://freeplane.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Translation_How-
To.
Please coordinate changes with haaihenkie who provided the latest translation.
Volker
To anybody: Please enter the discussion on translation principles English-
Dutch at: http://freeplane.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Translation_nl
Volker,
herwith Mantis ID 0000786 for future reference
Jokro
Jokro,
you have entered 00000786 as a request for a new feature, but the problem is
actually that it is a bug, and a very nasty one for the user since it blocks
the formatting of the root node (while you can RTF format all other nodes).
This bug still shows in 1.2.1_23. See Mantis, issue 813: https://sourceforge.
net/apps/mantisbt/freeplane/view.php?id=813 (sourceforge.net)
Regards
Andrés
Andressef,
I did post it as a bug, concerning a feature, not a new feature. Good that the
relation with your report is made as well.
Jokro
Hi all
i want add my opinion about Edit node and Edit long node.
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mantisbt/freeplane/view.php?id=813.
Because is this very important for nice work in Freeplane please be kind and
set this like in stable version.
Regards
Predrag
Hi pegi7,
I use Freeplane 1.1.2 and get the correct windows, not the one you show in
your bug report.
I read your proposal to mean that menu Edit>"Edit Long node" has to set all
future editing to be SimplyHTML, until "Edit>Edit Short node" is issued. To me
thisis an excellent idea, it would solve my problem in cases you need to
define mostly RTF text, as in writing documentation....
Jokro
I implemented support for rich text in inline editor and disabled the non
formatting long node editor.
For text formatting there are actions in its pop-up menu which are also
available by accelerator keys.
The action are enabled only if some text is highlighted.
Now the inline editor comes always if the more feature rich long node editor
was not explicitly wished.
I hope you enjoy it. Share your happiness with me.
Preview 1.2.1_24 .
Dimitry
Dimitry, rich text within inline editor, this was the perfect solution, thanks
a lot!!!
The extra line in new node problem in 1.2.1.24 is gone in 1.2.1_25, which is
even more excellent:) But this time, in 1.2.1_25, you cannot see when you
actually enter <enter> for a new line in new node (Shift+Enter): that is, you
cannot see the new line entered in a 'new node' with shift+enter; although the
action is actually fulfilled (and you can see it and edit once you left the
new node).
Ayca</enter>
Hi Dimitry,
you have done it ! I am also impressed by the other improvements of 1.2x. Will
start translation for this now. But please do also install dutch properties
and doc files for 1.1.2.?!
Thanks again.
Jokro
Hi Dimitri,
I am fully enjoyning the inline editor. One point could be improved except for
the bug mentioned at post 22: to invoke bold, Italic etc. one has to pass a
secundary menu. This unnessicarily slows down the action. Further it would be
nice to have also installed Dutch language for testing spell check (I will add
it manually for now).
Regards
Jokro
On second thought, you could leave the secondary menu, but bring it to the top
of the Context menu.
regards,
Jokro