At 06:59 PM 7/31/2001 +0200, Oren Ben-Kiki wrote:
> (B1) Proliferation of cryptic identifiers.  [...]
is cryptic. That seems to be life...

Yeah.  <sigh>

I don't know whether I want YAML to be extensible. Supposing we
settle the serialization issue somehow, I think that anything
else should be layered on top of YAML-CORE, not "extended" in
the core itself.

That's what I mean, me thinks.  The core would provide an extension mechanism.  Anything that must go in the core goes in the core using the extension mechanism.  Anything that could go outside the core goes outside the core.  All extensions are standardized.

I'm just saying that if we think of layering serialization on top of the core, we'd be putting less serialization in the core.

Python allows a more flexible whitespace based indentation scheme,
and so did YAML at first. The reason we gave it up were because it
allowed a drastic simplification of the syntax for all types of
scalars, while increasing their expressive power.

Agreed.  A difficult but probably worthwhile sacrifice.

Can you be more specific about the difficulties you faced? I
(naively) expected that any modern editor would have a user-
tunable automatic indentation, and that this should be enough
for convenient YAML entry. Wrong?

I just sat down to comment some of the code I've written and found myself doing the same sort of text manipulation that I was doing in the YAML.  The only difference was that in YAML my text tended to be much more greatly indented, thus emphasizing the problem I already have with comments.

There seem to be two main bugaboos: (1) Once I've put text on a line, it takes a bit more work to delete the preceding whitespace (one backspace no longer does it), and I seem to re-justify often.  (2) Once entries are separated by more than a few lines, I have trouble lining up the columns.  Seems that I should only have to count my sets of four spaces or backspaces, but I seem to screw this up often enough to make it time-consuming.

So you're right, YAML doesn't ask anything of me that I'm not already doing.  It doesn't create problems that I don't already have.  But it does seem to exacerbate them.

- Extensibility: the current shorthand syntax does allow some
extensibility. Clark is making a case we should completely drop
extensibility (I don't know if he's looking at it this way).
We need to think about what we mean by "extensibility", anyway.
is it adding different syntax forms (e.g., more scalar formats)?
Adding something like namespaces? XLink?

How about creating an extensible mechanism for annotating nodes

OK, you got your wish. YAML allows comments just in certain places:
attached to maps. Simply use '#' as a key and type your comment in.
Problem solved? :-)

Feeling much better, thank you!

~Joe