Re: [Xsltforms-support] Is XForms a failure to learn from?

[William V. <wve...@vi...>]

I´d like to know the w3C definition of success:
- If success is: "making an standard globally accepted and implemented like HTTP+HTML" everything after it has been a failure, even the last version of HTML, because not all browser vendors obey w3c (ask WHATWG what they think).
- If success is: "achieving initial goals", many w3c projects fits that definition, but surely XForms don´t, because native browser support.
- But if success is: "Creating an useful specification that is implemented in real world and offer benefits to their users", all of XSLTForms and BetterForms users have to qualify XForms as a success.
- And even more, if success is "creating an standard that lasts for years and shows the right path, even when others miss it" XForms is a total success. The recent - and very popular - movement of "Web Components" is re-launching the ideas behind XForms, and even XForms could be considered the first "web components" framework.

Now, if w3c drops XForms development (for being unsuccessful) and release it to the community, that could benefit XForms community, and long awaited features could see the light faster, like:
- Reutilization (like Jaroslaw told us).
- Integration with schema validation engines (not only XSD, but Relax-NG, Schematron or Explamplotron).
- No-namespace version of XForms

Just to name a few of many that this community could be waiting for.

Cheers,

- Bill




-----Mensaje original-----
De: Jarosław Kowalewski [mailto:jar...@st...] 
Enviado el: martes, 14 de octubre de 2014 8:50 a. m.
Para: Stephen Cameron
CC: Forms WG; xsl...@li...; pub...@w3...
Asunto: Re: [Xsltforms-support] Is XForms a failure to learn from?

All,
I active use xforms technology since 2008 and I want to share my point of view.

Xforms form for me is very very powerful technology for building big forms with complicated logic. Please refer e.g. to EU Commission e-forms like http://erasmus-plus.ro/erasmus-plus-eforms-application-guide/.

Similar forms I and my coullegues implemented in xforms. And that's work currently only in FF3.6 with xforms plugin:/

If you want to see how it works feel free to create account and after login choose e.g.  "The scolarship and training found" and then "Application forms". https://online.frse.org.pl.


For what this introduction?

As I was started to develope my first xforms I was suprised how easy it is. But it was only first impression, because I met a lot of problems and low productivity in developing, chaning and debuging:

1. you have to write xml (main instance, origin instance, other instances if necessary), xsd, xforms (and as in my case latex print tamplate too)  file separatly.
2. if you want change structure of xml (e.g. rename some nodes) you must change manually xsd, xfoms and latex file too. You must update all  binds and fields 3. You cannot reuse fragments of this files in another context becouse you must do the same as in point 2.
4. If you want to add some specific constuction e.g. repeat list that show only a few fileds on the list e.g. name and surname but you want add subform to edit more details  each time you must write it again and again. Please imagine that in one form you have 20-30 of such constructions.
5. and a lot of other problems

All this above is time consuming and causes many errors.

So taking into account our problems we developed own framework that solved almost all problems: reusable code, easy in maintain, etc.,

If anyone is intrested in details I can prepare some complex examples.
In attachment I added some code that is transformed via xslt to xforms, xml, xsd and latex template. The main features are: xpath independent bindings, field definition contains control type, label, nodename, xsd type, size in grid layout online and independent size in grid layout in latex,  bind element, hint element. In last five years we build based on that framework more than 2000 diffrent forms.

I think about publishing it on SF.


Stephen Cameron said about AngularJS. I have attempted to implement xforms in AngularJS becouse of similarities. But AngularJS forms are quite poor in data binding. As I know exist only simple libraries that implement jsonpath
(https://code.google.com/p/json-path/) < xpath 1.0.
Xpath is the best and easiest way to go through data tree.



Summarizing:
Xforms is currently the best specification for big forms, but difficult to maintain. Xfomrs is a bed solution for small simple forms. Better use pure js or AnlugarJS.

All this solutions according to me need framework and xforms needs client side implementation! The one last but promissing is XSLTForms.

Regards
Jaroslaw Kowalewski