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Re: [wxperl-users] wxPerl Community project...
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From: Donovan A. <al...@Zo...> - 2007-02-12 20:32:21
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And if you think my killer app concept is worth following, Gallery has = been mentioned in an article about the best of free software... =20 http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2090787,00.asp =20 Are there any apps in here that we can either improve upon with a = utility or replace with something better and usurp their glory = (bwhahahahaha)? =20 ________________________________ From: wxp...@li... on behalf of Donovan = Allen Sent: Mon 2/12/2007 11:52 AM To: wxperl-users Subject: Re: [wxperl-users] wxPerl Community project... I think that the problem is more complicated than it seems and the = things you recommend...I really wonder how much they will help, not that = I fault you at all for taking intitative (which is really 100x more than = I have done for WxPerl). For example, I think tutorials could be ok, but are typically flawed = since they usually demonstrate how to use features that are already easy = to grasp from code examples and documentation. Some omnipotent being knows we don't need more "how to make a window and = add a button" tutorials. Most tutorials never bring the user the undocumented, unexplored, or = more complex components, which is usually what people actually need in = order to write any useful program. Additionally, anyone who actually = gets some use from "beginner" tutorials, they will immediately be frozen = in place by some other aspect of writing their GUI application in perl = (ie., blocking on some operation outside of the GUI) and unless they are = devoted enough to the project to get past also learning something like = POE and god knows what else, they will jump ship. After writing a rather large and complex peice of software (distributed = network kiosk multimedia & interactive player & control system) with = perl, POE, and Wx (and lots of blood and sacrifices), I can honestly say = that the problem is much larger than Wx (and that Wx was't much of a = problem all in all). I don't have the magical answers, but I also have much frustration about = the lack of both interest and community around perl & any GUI toolkit. = I have been thinking of jumping the perl ship for about a year now. It = is just getting more and more difficult to do my job with this language. = The world, for better or worse, wants GUIs, multi-threaded (real = threads...multiple CPUs you know), and media and/or web = intensive/enabled software. Software is becoming to complex to have to = sweat the basics. So...what am I leading to with all this babble you ask? What WxPerl ultimately needs are 2 things: 1> More people contributing to the documentation (actual WxPerl = documentation) w/partial examples of more complicated features (aka = using DCs in WxPerl for example). 2> More people working on Wx (and related extensions) itself So how do we get there? ...some ideas: 1> Something in the realm of a killer app that can server as a cool demo = of WxPerl, a fount of examples (maybe written in a way that is more = optimal to serve as examples of component/widget use that could be = stripped and used in other peoples apps). This app would perhaps be = useful outside of the community itself. You know, get people who aren't = perl coders downloading it to use and get both WxPerl and Perl as a = language more exposure. Therefore, this app should also not be for Perl = itself (not another POD reader!!!). I realize that this goal sounds lofty, but the mother of invention is = necessity after all, and if you build a killer open source app that = becomes popular, some of that excitement will bleed back down into = WxPerl and maybe other aspects of perl that will help all Wx apps move = forward. I honestly don't think there is a better approach than this (nor do I = believe there is an easier one). We have seen it many times in open = source...open source works by demand and numbers. If you don't have the = support of a large community, then your project suffers and eventually = stalls. So what kind of app then? Well, good question, but ideally it might = solve a problem for some other open source project that is popular. You = know, target something that people already use, like MySQL, Apache, = Gallery (http://gallery.menalto.com/), PhpBB, or PhpNuke for example. For example, I have written an app using Win32::GUI that provides bulk = upload of images to a media asset system and includes file = drag-and-drop, image thumbnails/previews, IPTC/EXIF editing, global = metadata fields, and asynchronous HTTP upload of files to webserver app. = This sort of thing could easily be written in WxPerl and latch onto = Gallery instead. Not so sure it is the killer app tho. So...what current problem out there can we solve as a community? 2> It might be worth the effort of combing forces with Win32::GUI. = Things like the ActiveX extension are almost identical code wise = (infact, the Wx ActiveX was derived and mostly unaltered from the = Win32::GUI version), so certain modules could become more toolkit = generic and reduce redundant efforts, therefore hopefully also gaining a = larger dev base. Additionally, generic GUI concepts and community sources have some = overlap. It is possible that some of the perl GUI woes come from lack of = general GUI programming knowledge and concepts in the perl world. Lets = face it, when the world pegs a language as a CGI scripting = language...ahem...anyway. A DC is a DC...but for some...wth is it? I = think basic concepts of deeper concepts should be illustrated in any = educational material for any API. 3> A WxPerl book. Books are neat...any volunteers? hehe 4> A WxPerl cookbook? - cookbooks, in my mind anyway, has really killed = the tutorial star. Anyway, my 35 cents towards this thought (and some ranting along the = way). As for personal contribution...well, I am happy to contribute to a = concept that I think will succeed, so ... intently waiting for someone = else to run with the ball first. :-P ________________________________ From: wxp...@li... on behalf of John Ralls Sent: Mon 2/12/2007 9:56 AM To: wxperl-users Subject: Re: [wxperl-users] wxPerl Community project... On Feb 12, 2007, at 7:57 AM, Huub Peters wrote: > Hello list, > > I know many others have proposed it in the past and (maybe not so) > many > initiatives have been actually executed but we really need a central > community kind of place. > > The german wiki (http://www.wxperl.de) is a mess (spammed all the time > and even a defacing at this moment). > The wiki at http://wxperl.pvoice.org/kwiki/ is a nice effort but only > thanks to some users (or even only one? jralls?) it is staying free of > spam but there are no new articles posted at all. Why? Don't know. > It's probably not known and personaly I just don't like the Kwiki- > software > but that's a matter of taste off course. > (On a side note: Jouke (whose place this wiki is hosted on) has > anounced > on his weblog on 24-09-2006 that he will be offline for an > undetermined > ammount of time due to personal issues. Otherwise I would have > taken this > up with him directly to begin with.) > > There are other spots with excelent stuff (like gigi.co.uk) but I > only heard > about that on this list and it is decentralized this way. > > I can go on with being negative and summing up what I think is "wrong" > and compare to "the great wxPython community" but that won't solve > a thing > so here's what I came up with: > > * I took the liberty of registering wxperl.info. > A good domain name improves "findability" > * I'm in the lucky position of having hosting facilities and a lot of > fast bandwidth to go with it that I can use. (the company where > I work > has no problems with me using it) > * I started writing this mail :-) > > So what's next...? > Next I need ideas and help. > > Here are some of my ideas: > * We need a user friendly, nice looking wiki. > Something like "Mediawiki" (the heart of Wikipedia) but offcourse I > can't live with a perl community on a php-driven site so after some > searching I found Twiki: http://www.twiki.org which looks robust > enough > to me. > * We need tutorials > * We need Howto's. > * We need tips and tricks. > * Maybe write up the problems and solutions from the mailing list. > * Maybe a forum for some nice discussions (alltough it might clash > with > the mailing list) > * Show of your work. > > Bottom line: we need a central community where beginners and > experts can > teach and learn about wxPerl. > I'm trying to offer the place to start this and hope it will grow > to be as > big as > wxPerl deserves it to be. > > E-mail me on or off list with your thoughts/ideas/offers etcetera and > maybe we'll have a nice community in no time. > > Huub Peters The biggest problem for any wiki is spam. Before Jouke installed the updates to Kwiki last summer, one of which required that a user register before editing a page, the wxWiki was getting hit several times a day. Since, it has been hit exactly once. I'm also not terribly fond of Kwiki in general, though. It's remarkably fragile. Jouke has not seemed ever to have much time for maintaining it, and several things are broken. I don't think that you should entertain the constraint that the underlying software must run on perl. It's far more important that it be robust, secure, and easy to edit and maintain. Mediawiki has an excellent track record on all counts. For your sanity, though, the software should also be easy to install, maintain, and administer. I have no experience in that regard with Mediawiki or any other wiki software, so I can't make any recommendations. Regardless of that, I suspect that the biggest problem is getting people to sign up, and to write articles. There are only 10 registered users on Jouke's wiki, most of whom are regulars here, too. (One is Manuel Renz, who says on his user-page that he's the one behind wsperl.de -- and who hasn't posted here since last April). You're on that list too, as is Mark Dootson, Herbert Bruening, and of course Mattia. Many other regulars aren't, but that doesn't mean that they didn't at some point contribute. AFAICT, no one has added anything useful since Jouke set it to require that one be a registered user to edit. One can't see the edit history beyond six months with the tools at hand, but I don't remember any non-spam content being added in at least a year. The point of that last paragraph is that the problem with the present wiki isn't spam any more, it's getting people to write for it. Do you have a plan for that? (The lack of entries might be partly due to the lousy software, but I don't think that that contributes much to the problem. It might be due to a not-very-intuitive layout, but that could be fixed pretty easily by anyone with time and a better idea.) Bottom line: We've got a couple of places for the community to gather. It seems to like this one better than the wiki. Why do you think another wiki will change that? Regards, John Ralls -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, = security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job = easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache = Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D120709&bid=3D263057&dat=3D= 121642 _______________________________________________ wxperl-users mailing list wxp...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxperl-users -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, = security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job = easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache = Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D120709&bid=3D263057&dat=3D= 121642 _______________________________________________ wxperl-users mailing list wxp...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxperl-users |
