From: Scales, T. <Tre...@cs...> - 2001-10-23 21:58:10
|
I am a trying to convert some FrameMaker documents to Microsoft Word or from interleaf, pdf.file to Microsoft Word If you have any suggestions please don't hesitate |
From: Leonard R. <leo...@la...> - 2001-10-23 22:21:01
|
After some discussion with Bob and Dom off list, I'd like to reopen the discussion of stripping down libWMF. As I see it (and Bob and Dom agree), libWMF itself should do NOTHING but parse the WMF file - calling back some "output format object" that can then decide what to do with each object and it's data. This would allow ImageMagick to more easily integrate with libWMF and (IMHO) would also make development of output modules easier since they would be well factored and defined. As there are probably routines that would be useful to multiple "output formats" such routines could be provided either as a separate library (libWMFUtils) or as compilable sources. I would be willing to work on factoring out this portion of libWMF, if that would help get it moving along in this vein. Leonard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- You've got a SmartFriend=81 in Pennsylvania ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leonard Rosenthol Internet: leo...@la... Web Site: <http://www.lazerware.com/> Coola Signature: <http://signature.coola.com/?leo...@la...> PGP Fingerprint: C76E 0497 C459 182D 0C6B AB6B CA10 B4DF 8067 5E65 |
From: F J F. <F.J...@sh...> - 2001-10-24 07:42:15
|
On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, Leonard Rosenthol wrote: > After some discussion with Bob and Dom off list, I'd like to reopen > the discussion of stripping down libWMF. Oh, no! Oh, no! Oh, no! They're ganging up on me! |
From: Bob F. <bfr...@si...> - 2001-10-24 14:22:47
|
On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, F J Franklin wrote: > On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, Leonard Rosenthol wrote: > > > After some discussion with Bob and Dom off list, I'd like to reopen > > the discussion of stripping down libWMF. > > Oh, no! Oh, no! Oh, no! They're ganging up on me! Chalk this up to a simple case of enthusiasm. In the open source world excessive enthusiasm is usually better than none. Consider it to be a form of mutual appreciation. :-) Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfr...@si... http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen |
From: F J F. <F.J...@sh...> - 2001-10-24 07:57:58
|
Exactly what do you want to remove? In it's current state you can build without plot, magick, X & gd layers, which leaves eps, fig & svg - and I'm perfectly happy to make these optional as well, if that's what you want, and you would be left with the API/IPA. JPEG support also is optional, but unless you're happy dealing with the wmf_ipa_bmp_* interface I can't/won't remove PNG support and therefore there's no point getting worked up about zlib support (since libpng depends on zlib anyway). I have no intention of removing freetype support, at least not in the near future, since it's used (a) for text bounding box calculation & alignment, and (b) for rendering in the GD and X layers. If you're desperate to get rid of it, though, we need to define a 3rd interface that will let libwmf use arbitrary font-engine support. If you really want to help, why not take a stab at module support? Frank, who's not sure whether he's amused or !issed off. Francis James Franklin F.J...@sh... Deep in the human unconsciousness is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic. --- from `The Sayings of Muad'dib' by the Princess Irulan |
From: F J F. <F.J...@sh...> - 2001-10-24 08:05:33
|
> Frank, who's not sure whether he's amused or !issed off. Sorry, it's just that I take issue with your use of 'Re-opening'. The discussion has only just been raised, it certainly hasn't been closed. Frank |
From: Leonard R. <leo...@la...> - 2001-10-24 10:58:54
|
At 8:57 AM +0100 10/24/01, F J Franklin wrote: >In it's current state you can build without plot, magick, X & gd layers, >which leaves eps, fig & svg - and I'm perfectly happy to make these >optional as well, if that's what you want, and you would be left with the >API/IPA. First, thanks for all the work to remove the X & GD layers - it's appreciated!! Second, API/IPA support is EXACTLY what I want. No "output formats" or any data messaging of any kind. Just feed me raw information... >JPEG support also is optional, but unless you're happy dealing with the >wmf_ipa_bmp_* interface I can't/won't remove PNG support and therefore >there's no point getting worked up about zlib support (since libpng >depends on zlib anyway). Handling of the "bmp interface" should be left up to the output module. For example, in ImageMagick we can take the raw bitmap data and handle it directly rather than having you take the time to convert it (potentially with losses) to JPEG or PNG. >I have no intention of removing freetype support, at least not in the near >future, since it's used (a) for text bounding box calculation & alignment, >and (b) for rendering in the GD and X layers. If you're desperate to get >rid of it, though, we need to define a 3rd interface that will let libwmf >use arbitrary font-engine support. I guess my first question is why does libWMF need a font engine? I certainly understand why some output modules might need it - but why the core library? Leave that up to the output module. OR if you really feel that the measurement and such needs to be done by libWMF, then let's define an interface to arbitrary font engines - that's reasonable and easy enough to do. >If you really want to help, why not take a stab at module support? Meaning? >Frank, who's not sure whether he's amused or !issed off. > Let's hope the former. Remember, we all want to make libWMF the best it can be and usable in as many other places as we can! Leonard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- You've got a SmartFriend=81 in Pennsylvania ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leonard Rosenthol Internet: leo...@la... Web Site: <http://www.lazerware.com/> Coola Signature: <http://signature.coola.com/?leo...@la...> PGP Fingerprint: C76E 0497 C459 182D 0C6B AB6B CA10 B4DF 8067 5E65 |
From: F J F. <F.J...@sh...> - 2001-10-24 11:15:19
|
> First, thanks for all the work to remove the X & GD layers - > it's appreciated!! Well, the X was always optional. The no-GD hasn't been tested. I'll have a look at it this weekend... > Second, API/IPA support is EXACTLY what I want. No "output > formats" or any data messaging of any kind. Just feed me raw > information... I'll add a --disable-all then... ('Messaging' or 'massaging'?) > Handling of the "bmp interface" should be left up to the > output module. For example, in ImageMagick we can take the raw > bitmap data and handle it directly This is what Bob was asking for last Christmas, and I would have given it to him too if it wasn't for WMF's rather endearing habit of including *broken* bitmaps. You'll notice I'm using ImageMagick's bitmap code in there, but I had to modify it to handle the broken bitmap case. If you feel like modifying ImageMagick's BMP coder to handle the special case, then it should be trivial to make the wmf_ipa_bmp_* stuff optional. > I guess my first question is why does libWMF need a font engine? It all started because there are two types of WMF, the ones that have a size, and the ones that don't, and since I always want a bounding box, even if it's wrong, I had to calculate it myself. Most of the time it's easy, but text screws everything up. > OR if you really feel that the measurement and such needs to > be done by libWMF, then let's define an interface to arbitrary font > engines - that's reasonable and easy enough to do. Sounds like a plan. > >If you really want to help, why not take a stab at module support? > Meaning? Meaning I don't handle criticism well before 9 a.m. Regards, Frank Francis James Franklin F.J...@sh... Deep in the human unconsciousness is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic. --- from `The Sayings of Muad'dib' by the Princess Irulan |
From: Leonard R. <leo...@la...> - 2001-10-24 17:18:18
|
At 12:15 PM +0100 10/24/01, F J Franklin wrote: >The no-GD hasn't been tested. I'll have a >look at it this weekend... thanks! I know that Bob said he was also going to give it a whirl... > > Second, API/IPA support is EXACTLY what I want. No "output >> formats" or any data messaging of any kind. Just feed me raw >> information... > >I'll add a --disable-all then... Excellent - thanks!! >('Messaging' or 'massaging'?) Massaging.... >This is what Bob was asking for last Christmas, and I would have given it >to him too if it wasn't for WMF's rather endearing habit of including >*broken* bitmaps. You'll notice I'm using ImageMagick's bitmap code in >there, but I had to modify it to handle the broken bitmap case. > >If you feel like modifying ImageMagick's BMP coder to handle the special >case, then it should be trivial to make the wmf_ipa_bmp_* stuff optional. I'll diff the files and be glad to commit those changes back into IM itself - thanks for the fixes!! > > I guess my first question is why does libWMF need a font engine? > >It all started because there are two types of WMF, the ones that have a >size, and the ones that don't, Right - forgot about the fact that the original WMF's don't have bounding boxes. >and since I always want a bounding box, >even if it's wrong, I had to calculate it myself. Most of the time it's >easy, but text screws everything up. Got it! That makes sense why you need a "text engine". I'll take a look at what you've got going with FT2 and see if we can find a way to extract that out. > > >If you really want to help, why not take a stab at module support? >> Meaning? > >Meaning I don't handle criticism well before 9 a.m. > No, I mean what exactly needs to happen here? Are you talking about (re)designing an architecture for plug-in modules?? Leonard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- You've got a SmartFriend=81 in Pennsylvania ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leonard Rosenthol Internet: leo...@la... Web Site: <http://www.lazerware.com/> Coola Signature: <http://signature.coola.com/?leo...@la...> PGP Fingerprint: C76E 0497 C459 182D 0C6B AB6B CA10 B4DF 8067 5E65 |
From: Bob F. <bfr...@si...> - 2001-10-24 17:31:42
|
On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, Leonard Rosenthol wrote: > > > >If you really want to help, why not take a stab at module support? > >> Meaning? > > > >Meaning I don't handle criticism well before 9 a.m. > > > No, I mean what exactly needs to happen here? Are you > talking about (re)designing an architecture for plug-in modules?? We had previously (privately) discussed encapsulating libwmf's IPA support as modules, similar to the way ImageMagick supports image formats via modules. This makes it possible to add/remove support for an IPA type by adding/removing a file. It also removes link-time dependency from libwmf on the libraries that the IPA code depends on. The IPA code is already adapted somewhat (mostly) to be used as a module. At that is required is a simple module loader and a generic IPA interface to drive it. Libtools' libltdl can be used to assist with the module loader. Libwmf is free to copy module loader code from ImageMagick as well. ImageMagick uses its own module loader under Windows since libltdl is LGPL unless it is used in conjunction with libtool (not so good for commercial apps). Libwmf is already LGPL so there is no concern. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfr...@si... http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen |
From: F J F. <F.J...@sh...> - 2001-10-24 18:38:22
|
> >If you feel like modifying ImageMagick's BMP coder to handle the special > >case, then it should be trivial to make the wmf_ipa_bmp_* stuff optional. > > I'll diff the files and be glad to commit those changes back > into IM itself - thanks for the fixes!! It's not a 'fix'. If anything, it's a 'break'. But you're welcome. Frank Francis James Franklin F.J...@sh... Deep in the human unconsciousness is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic. --- from `The Sayings of Muad'dib' by the Princess Irulan |
From: Bob F. <bfr...@si...> - 2001-10-24 18:45:16
|
On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, F J Franklin wrote: > > >If you feel like modifying ImageMagick's BMP coder to handle the special > > >case, then it should be trivial to make the wmf_ipa_bmp_* stuff optional. > > > > I'll diff the files and be glad to commit those changes back > > into IM itself - thanks for the fixes!! > > It's not a 'fix'. If anything, it's a 'break'. But you're welcome. Consider it to be a short-term work-around until loadable modules are implemented. ImageMagick will be written to work with the full-fledged libwmf under POSIX-compliant systems since the library may be shared by other programs. The abbreviated form will only be used under Windows and Mac. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfr...@si... http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen |
From: F J F. <F.J...@sh...> - 2001-10-25 07:09:24
|
> > > >If you feel like modifying ImageMagick's BMP coder to handle the special > > > >case, then it should be trivial to make the wmf_ipa_bmp_* stuff optional. > > > > > > I'll diff the files and be glad to commit those changes back > > > into IM itself - thanks for the fixes!! > > > > It's not a 'fix'. If anything, it's a 'break'. But you're welcome. > > Consider it to be a short-term work-around until loadable modules are > implemented. ? Are we on the same wavelength here? I meant it's a 'break' for IM. It's like patching expat to handle HTML - it's doable but highly unethical. Frank Francis James Franklin F.J...@sh... Deep in the human unconsciousness is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic. --- from `The Sayings of Muad'dib' by the Princess Irulan |
From: F J F. <F.J...@sh...> - 2001-10-25 09:09:12
|
With the new --without-layers option, libwmf-0.2(.2) is now less than half the usual size... I'll be doing a release very soon. Until then it's bug-fixes only. I'll do a libwmf-0.2.3 when we get the wmf_ipa_bmp|font stuff sorted out, probably adding an --enable-lite option or something... Regards, Frank Francis James Franklin F.J...@sh... Deep in the human unconsciousness is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic. --- from `The Sayings of Muad'dib' by the Princess Irulan |
From: shaheed <sr...@ie...> - 2001-10-25 21:17:35
|
On Wednesday 24 October 2001 11:59 am, Leonard Rosenthol wrote: > First, thanks for all the work to remove the X & GD layers - > it's appreciated!! > > Second, API/IPA support is EXACTLY what I want. No "output > formats" or any data messaging of any kind. Just feed me raw > information... Yes. In fact, the only reason I even started the 3rd set of WMF support code in KDE/KOffice was because no such clean API existed. > Handling of the "bmp interface" should be left up to the > output module. For example, in ImageMagick we can take the raw > bitmap data and handle it directly rather than having you take the > time to convert it (potentially with losses) to JPEG or PNG. Again, this is exactly what I want. > >I have no intention of removing freetype support, at least not in the near > >future, since it's used (a) for text bounding box calculation & alignment, > >and (b) for rendering in the GD and X layers. If you're desperate to get > >rid of it, though, we need to define a 3rd interface that will let libwmf > >use arbitrary font-engine support. > > I guess my first question is why does libWMF need a font > engine? I certainly understand why some output modules might need it > - but why the core library? Leave that up to the output module. > > OR if you really feel that the measurement and such needs to > be done by libWMF, then let's define an interface to arbitrary font > engines - that's reasonable and easy enough to do. I agree that this is a problem. I look forward to you guys hammering out a decent solution :-). Thanks, Shaheed |
From: F J F. <F.J...@sh...> - 2001-10-26 08:14:32
|
On Thu, 25 Oct 2001, shaheed wrote: > Yes. In fact, the only reason I even started the 3rd set of WMF support code > in KDE/KOffice was because no such clean API existed. Why does everyone assume I'm just being bloody-mindedly selfish? Did it even occur to you to talk to me? libwmf-0.2 is *alpha* software. Until two weeks ago, its development was being driven by people using either wv or the wmf2* utilities. The *only* person (that I *knew* about) trying to use libwmf-0.2 for other importer work was *me*. <sarcasm severity="dripping"> What? Was I supposed to magically <em>divine</em> what you wanted? </sarcasm> If libwmf-0.2 isn't of use to you, the only person to blame is yourself. Please don't level criticism at me. Frank Francis James Franklin F.J...@sh... Deep in the human unconsciousness is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic. --- from `The Sayings of Muad'dib' by the Princess Irulan |
From: shaheed <sr...@ie...> - 2001-10-26 19:13:17
|
On Friday 26 October 2001 9:14 am, F J Franklin wrote: > On Thu, 25 Oct 2001, shaheed wrote: > > Yes. In fact, the only reason I even started the 3rd set of WMF support > > code in KDE/KOffice was because no such clean API existed. > > Why does everyone assume I'm just being bloody-mindedly selfish? > Did it even occur to you to talk to me? Oh no, this predated your involvement. This was in the days of the original wmf stuff (by Caolan, IIRC). > libwmf-0.2 is *alpha* software. Until two weeks ago, its development was > being driven by people using either wv or the wmf2* utilities. The *only* > person (that I *knew* about) trying to use libwmf-0.2 for other importer > work was *me*. > > <sarcasm severity="dripping"> > What? Was I supposed to magically <em>divine</em> what you wanted? > </sarcasm> > > If libwmf-0.2 isn't of use to you, the only person to blame is yourself. > Please don't level criticism at me. No, no, I was merely trying to encourage you along the lines you are already following! When I first looked at the new wmf code, i relaised that the IPA/API stuff was *just* what I wanted. Nothing was further from my mind that to criticise! Thanks, Shaheed |
From: F J F. <F.J...@sh...> - 2001-10-28 11:46:41
|
On Fri, 26 Oct 2001, shaheed wrote: > Oh no, this predated your involvement. This was in the days of the original > wmf stuff (by Caolan, IIRC). An unfortunate misunderstanding, then... Mollified, Frank Francis James Franklin F.J...@sh... Deep in the human unconsciousness is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic. --- from `The Sayings of Muad'dib' by the Princess Irulan |
From: Leonard R. <leo...@la...> - 2001-10-23 22:21:02
|
At 4:58 PM -0500 10/23/01, Scales, Tremayne wrote: >I am a trying to convert some FrameMaker documents to Microsoft Word Don't do that. Changes are the Frame document takes advantages of structured editing that you simply won't get from Word. Stick with Frame - it's good stuff!! >pdf.file to Microsoft Word Acrobat 5.0 (full package, not Reader) supports converting PDF->RTF. Leonard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- You've got a SmartFriend=81 in Pennsylvania ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leonard Rosenthol Internet: leo...@la... Web Site: <http://www.lazerware.com/> Coola Signature: <http://signature.coola.com/?leo...@la...> PGP Fingerprint: C76E 0497 C459 182D 0C6B AB6B CA10 B4DF 8067 5E65 |