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From: Don A. <aa...@be...> - 2019-03-22 18:21:54
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I've not run MSHV or JTDX on FT8 yet. My preference is WSJT-X so I don't know how to spot a DX station running one of these clones. Is there a way to tell what the DX station is using (when using multiple streams)? Today I had a difficult time working 5T5PA. Nearly all spots said he was running F/H and none said he wasn't (he probably is running F/H), but it took longer than 10 minutes for me to complete the contact when it didn't seem like it should have been that difficult. I was tempted to turn F/H off but I didn't. I did finally get RR73 from him. Are there certainly things we can look for in determining if the DX is running F/H? If so, what are these tell-tale signs? I'm a little frustrated with the different approaches from FT8 clones and DXpeditions that use them. It's starting to create a lot of confusion that seems unnecessary. It would be nice if it was possible for WSJT-X to determine if the station is running F/H or not and display it somehow. I think if the DX is running F/H and the caller is not (and using WSJT-X) that the caller will get a warning, but it seems we need something more to identify F/H and non-F/H stations. If a DX station is running MSHV and the stations calling are running F/H, is it possible to still make a contact? Also, vice versa, if the DX is running F/H and the calling station is not, can a QSO be completed? Also, it would be nice if the F/H transmit timer for Hounds could be extended longer than 2 minutes. Five minutes seems more appropriate. Don AA5AU |
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From: Patrick 9. <pat...@gm...> - 2019-03-22 19:34:22
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Hi Don, Only MSHV have implemented multi answering protocol or so called F/H. JTDX doesnt have Fox mode at all, but can work/call both WSJT-X or MSHV Foxes! Simple, MSHV in most cases Run a Fox in both periods in the middle of the spectrum. Each slot send only one specific message to a caller. AA5AU ZL7X -12 9A5CW ZL7X R-11 AL7KK RR73 .... Etc... so it can answer even callers calling him with report instead od Grid. It doesnt have Hound frequency control as it is in WSJT-X when R-11 report its send under 1000 Hz, you can call him wherever you want but you must be in his RX passband. Normaly the passband is defined by his TX freq + - 1500Hz. Short Tip ;) if u figure out that he is using MSHV call him as lower as you can ;) 400 to 500Hz does the job very well! Dont move your TX freq next sequence, except due big QRM. If you dont get his RR73 call him again beacuse he probably switched to another station after 2 minutes or less depends by what time is set into QSo timer in the program. I am normaly using JTDX and I didnt had any problems to work both WSJT-X or MSHV dxpeds. Wish you luck ! 73 Patrik 9A5CW Datuma pet, 22. ožu 2019. 19:25 Don AA5AU <aa...@be... piše: > I've not run MSHV or JTDX on FT8 yet. My preference is WSJT-X so I don't > know how to spot a DX station running one of these clones. Is there a way > to tell what the DX station is using (when using multiple streams)? > > Today I had a difficult time working 5T5PA. Nearly all spots said he was > running F/H and none said he wasn't (he probably is running F/H), but it > took longer than 10 minutes for me to complete the contact when it didn't > seem like it should have been that difficult. I was tempted to turn F/H off > but I didn't. I did finally get RR73 from him. > > Are there certainly things we can look for in determining if the DX is > running F/H? If so, what are these tell-tale signs? I'm a little frustrated > with the different approaches from FT8 clones and DXpeditions that use > them. It's starting to create a lot of confusion that seems unnecessary. It > would be nice if it was possible for WSJT-X to determine if the station is > running F/H or not and display it somehow. I think if the DX is running F/H > and the caller is not (and using WSJT-X) that the caller will get a > warning, but it seems we need something more to identify F/H and non-F/H > stations. > > If a DX station is running MSHV and the stations calling are running F/H, > is it possible to still make a contact? Also, vice versa, if the DX is > running F/H and the calling station is not, can a QSO be completed? > > Also, it would be nice if the F/H transmit timer for Hounds could be > extended longer than 2 minutes. Five minutes seems more appropriate. > > Don AA5AU > _______________________________________________ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsj...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > |
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From: Wolfgang <oe...@gm...> - 2019-03-22 19:58:14
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Hello Don, in the std. release of JTDX the 'Fox' mode is disabled since many releases, only 'Hound' can be enabled! If anyone compiles from source, he could change anything of any of the named packages - WSJT-X, JTDX or MSHV. But I don't think the current 'DX' daring to do so. Looks like, the reason MSHV is used by the 'DX', is the operational aspect. The multi answering settings in MSHV can be handled without reading an extra manual. Callers need no extra mode, frequency hops etc. It's much simpler to handle than the F/H of WSJT-X. There is no law, no rule or such regulation how DX handle their operation, if they using Fox & Hound or whatever. In SSB the QSO rates are done sometimes by number, sometimes by continent etc. Think the same freedom should exist in digital modes. In SSB the 'bad guys' are the ones yelling endless, even if they don't hear the DX. And now in FT8 we try to blame the DX beeing 'the 'bad guys' ??? Chasing DX is like a race, we have some winners and some... who do not make it ;-) Btw., there is a lot of guesswork how 'the clones' are working! Why don't try them and make up your mind? Compare decoding speed, handling and the GUI - bet you will find some surprises. I did that, I have all of them installed on my PC. And before you ask, the MSHV is installed and has been tried just out of curiosity. 73 de Wolfgang OE1MWW Friday, March 22, 2019, 7:19:45 PM, you wrote: I've not run MSHV or JTDX on FT8 yet. My preference is WSJT-X so I don't know how to spot a DX station running one of these clones. Is there a way to tell what the DX station is using (when using multiple streams)? Today I had a difficult time working 5T5PA. Nearly all spots said he was running F/H and none said he wasn't (he probably is running F/H), but it took longer than 10 minutes for me to complete the contact when it didn't seem like it should have been that difficult. I was tempted to turn F/H off but I didn't. I did finally get RR73 from him. Are there certainly things we can look for in determining if the DX is running F/H? If so, what are these tell-tale signs? I'm a little frustrated with the different approaches from FT8 clones and DXpeditions that use them. It's starting to create a lot of confusion that seems unnecessary. It would be nice if it was possible for WSJT-X to determine if the station is running F/H or not and display it somehow. I think if the DX is running F/H and the caller is not (and using WSJT-X) that the caller will get a warning, but it seems we need something more to identify F/H and non-F/H stations. If a DX station is running MSHV and the stations calling are running F/H, is it possible to still make a contact? Also, vice versa, if the DX is running F/H and the calling station is not, can a QSO be completed? Also, it would be nice if the F/H transmit timer for Hounds could be extended longer than 2 minutes. Five minutes seems more appropriate. Don AA5AU ---------- Amateur radio is the most expensive type of free-of-charge communication! Amateurfunk ist die teuerste Art der kostenlosen Kommunikation! |
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From: Jim B. <k9...@au...> - 2019-03-22 21:36:23
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On 3/22/2019 12:58 PM, Wolfgang wrote: > In SSB the 'bad guys' are the ones yelling endless, even if they > don't hear the DX. And now in FT8 we try to blame the DX beeing > 'the 'bad guys' ??? Chasing DX is like a race, we have some > winners and some... who do not make it;-) > > Btw., there is a lot of guesswork how 'the clones' are working! Not nearly as well as those using WSJT-X's DXpedition Mode, primarily because it's FAR more than multi-reply. The real genius of WSJT-X DXpedition mode is in the segregation of Hounds above 1,000 Hz, reserving spectrum below that for the Hounds the Fox is working, and moving the caller into that region to send their report. The result is that, once the Hound has been called by the Fox, it rarely takes more than one or two TX cycles to get RR73 because the Hound is in the QRM-free zone! And in WSJT-X DXpedition mode, Hounds are ENCOURAGED to call continuously -- but ONLY above 1,000 Hz. One of the problems with FT8-clones that DON'T operate this way is that Hounds call anywhere, even when the DXpedition is using WSJT-X. Bottom line -- I have a real problem with both developers and users FT8 clone software that does only part of the job and encourages bad habits. 73, Jim K9YC |
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From: Don H. A. <aa...@be...> - 2019-03-23 04:42:07
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Thanks for the information Wolfgang. I did not mean to label DX as "bad guys". When DX stations show up using clones it only causes confusion. For me, it's hard to tell. Luckily many DXpeditions post their intentions on web pages saying if they are using Fox and Hound or not. Today HR5/F2JD even sent something like "FOX MODE UP 1000". It was his way of telling us he was using F/H. Today, a station signing J28PJ showed up on FT8 on non-standard FT8 frequencies. It looked like F/H but I couldn't tell. It is not my intention to label anyone a bad operator. I would just like to have a clear way of identifying F/H and non-F/H operations. Don AA5AU -----Original Message----- From: Wolfgang [mailto:oe...@gm...] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 2:58 PM To: WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] F/H vs. MSHV vs. JTDX Hello Don, in the std. release of JTDX the 'Fox' mode is disabled since many releases, only 'Hound' can be enabled! If anyone compiles from source, he could change anything of any of the named packages - WSJT-X, JTDX or MSHV. But I don't think the current 'DX' daring to do so. Looks like, the reason MSHV is used by the 'DX', is the operational aspect. The multi answering settings in MSHV can be handled without reading an extra manual. Callers need no extra mode, frequency hops etc. It's much simpler to handle than the F/H of WSJT-X. There is no law, no rule or such regulation how DX handle their operation, if they using Fox & Hound or whatever. In SSB the QSO rates are done sometimes by number, sometimes by continent etc. Think the same freedom should exist in digital modes. In SSB the 'bad guys' are the ones yelling endless, even if they don't hear the DX. And now in FT8 we try to blame the DX beeing 'the 'bad guys' ??? Chasing DX is like a race, we have some winners and some... who do not make it ;-) Btw., there is a lot of guesswork how 'the clones' are working! Why don't try them and make up your mind? Compare decoding speed, handling and the GUI - bet you will find some surprises. I did that, I have all of them installed on my PC. And before you ask, the MSHV is installed and has been tried just out of curiosity. 73 de Wolfgang OE1MWW Friday, March 22, 2019, 7:19:45 PM, you wrote: I've not run MSHV or JTDX on FT8 yet. My preference is WSJT-X so I don't know how to spot a DX station running one of these clones. Is there a way to tell what the DX station is using (when using multiple streams)? Today I had a difficult time working 5T5PA. Nearly all spots said he was running F/H and none said he wasn't (he probably is running F/H), but it took longer than 10 minutes for me to complete the contact when it didn't seem like it should have been that difficult. I was tempted to turn F/H off but I didn't. I did finally get RR73 from him. Are there certainly things we can look for in determining if the DX is running F/H? If so, what are these tell-tale signs? I'm a little frustrated with the different approaches from FT8 clones and DXpeditions that use them. It's starting to create a lot of confusion that seems unnecessary. It would be nice if it was possible for WSJT-X to determine if the station is running F/H or not and display it somehow. I think if the DX is running F/H and the caller is not (and using WSJT-X) that the caller will get a warning, but it seems we need something more to identify F/H and non-F/H stations. If a DX station is running MSHV and the stations calling are running F/H, is it possible to still make a contact? Also, vice versa, if the DX is running F/H and the calling station is not, can a QSO be completed? Also, it would be nice if the F/H transmit timer for Hounds could be extended longer than 2 minutes. Five minutes seems more appropriate. Don AA5AU ---------- Amateur radio is the most expensive type of free-of-charge communication! Amateurfunk ist die teuerste Art der kostenlosen Kommunikation! _______________________________________________ wsjt-devel mailing list wsj...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel |
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From: Don H. A. <aa...@be...> - 2019-03-22 22:50:28
Attachments:
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Thanks Patrick, but I don't know that what you say is true. Here is a screenshot from XR0ZRC which shows a couple of transmissions. example2.jpg The transmission outlined in red seems like MSHV but the transmission in blue looks like F/H? I think both are MSHV? Don AA5AU From: Patrick 9A5CW [mailto:pat...@gm...] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 2:34 PM To: WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] F/H vs. MSHV vs. JTDX Hi Don, Only MSHV have implemented multi answering protocol or so called F/H. JTDX doesnt have Fox mode at all, but can work/call both WSJT-X or MSHV Foxes! Simple, MSHV in most cases Run a Fox in both periods in the middle of the spectrum. Each slot send only one specific message to a caller. AA5AU ZL7X -12 9A5CW ZL7X R-11 AL7KK RR73 .... Etc... so it can answer even callers calling him with report instead od Grid. It doesnt have Hound frequency control as it is in WSJT-X when R-11 report its send under 1000 Hz, you can call him wherever you want but you must be in his RX passband. Normaly the passband is defined by his TX freq + - 1500Hz. Short Tip ;) if u figure out that he is using MSHV call him as lower as you can ;) 400 to 500Hz does the job very well! Dont move your TX freq next sequence, except due big QRM. If you dont get his RR73 call him again beacuse he probably switched to another station after 2 minutes or less depends by what time is set into QSo timer in the program. I am normaly using JTDX and I didnt had any problems to work both WSJT-X or MSHV dxpeds. Wish you luck ! 73 Patrik 9A5CW Datuma pet, 22. ožu 2019. 19:25 Don AA5AU <aa...@be... piše: I've not run MSHV or JTDX on FT8 yet. My preference is WSJT-X so I don't know how to spot a DX station running one of these clones. Is there a way to tell what the DX station is using (when using multiple streams)? Today I had a difficult time working 5T5PA. Nearly all spots said he was running F/H and none said he wasn't (he probably is running F/H), but it took longer than 10 minutes for me to complete the contact when it didn't seem like it should have been that difficult. I was tempted to turn F/H off but I didn't. I did finally get RR73 from him. Are there certainly things we can look for in determining if the DX is running F/H? If so, what are these tell-tale signs? I'm a little frustrated with the different approaches from FT8 clones and DXpeditions that use them. It's starting to create a lot of confusion that seems unnecessary. It would be nice if it was possible for WSJT-X to determine if the station is running F/H or not and display it somehow. I think if the DX is running F/H and the caller is not (and using WSJT-X) that the caller will get a warning, but it seems we need something more to identify F/H and non-F/H stations. If a DX station is running MSHV and the stations calling are running F/H, is it possible to still make a contact? Also, vice versa, if the DX is running F/H and the calling station is not, can a QSO be completed? Also, it would be nice if the F/H transmit timer for Hounds could be extended longer than 2 minutes Five minutes seems more appropriate. Don AA5AU _______________________________________________ wsjt-devel mailing list wsj...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel |
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From: Patrick 9. <pat...@gm...> - 2019-03-23 10:01:32
Attachments:
image001.jpg
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Hi Don, As you said its hard to know what kind of software are they running. Mostlikely XR0Z are using classic WSJT-X because they are transmiting from 300 Hz and up... and slots are mixed with different kind of messages, with comma delimited msg in one slot. MSHV can't do that... each slot separate msg to a new caller. Question its: did they enable RX in all passband? From 200Hz to 3kHz or more... if so they can work stations even with no Hound enabled! On MSHV reflector LZ2HV asked what kind of CQ can be sent out to know people that they are using MSHV soft... For example: CQ MULT KH7X Or similar messages what can easy recognised by so called Hounds! Best regards and RR73 9A5CW Datuma pet, 22. ožu 2019. 23:53 Don Hill AA5AU <aa...@be... piše: > Thanks Patrick, but I don't know that what you say is true. Here is a > screenshot from XR0ZRC which shows a couple of transmissions. > > > > [image: example2.jpg] > > > > The transmission outlined in red seems like MSHV but the transmission in > blue looks like F/H? > > > > I think both are MSHV? > > > > Don AA5AU > > > > *From:* Patrick 9A5CW [mailto:pat...@gm...] > *Sent:* Friday, March 22, 2019 2:34 PM > *To:* WSJT software development > *Subject:* Re: [wsjt-devel] F/H vs. MSHV vs. JTDX > > > > Hi Don, > > Only MSHV have implemented multi answering protocol or so called F/H. > > JTDX doesnt have Fox mode at all, but can work/call both WSJT-X or MSHV > Foxes! > > Simple, MSHV in most cases Run a Fox in both periods in the middle of the > spectrum. Each slot send only one specific message to a caller. > > AA5AU ZL7X -12 > > 9A5CW ZL7X R-11 > > AL7KK RR73 > > .... > > Etc... so it can answer even callers calling him with report instead od > Grid. > > It doesnt have Hound frequency control as it is in WSJT-X when R-11 report > its send under 1000 Hz, you can call him wherever you want but you must be > in his RX passband. Normaly the passband is defined by his TX freq + - > 1500Hz. > > > > Short Tip ;) if u figure out that he is using MSHV call him as lower as > you can ;) 400 to 500Hz does the job very well! Dont move your TX freq > next sequence, except due big QRM. If you dont get his RR73 call him again > beacuse he probably switched to another station after 2 minutes or less > depends by what time is set into QSo timer in the program. > > > > I am normaly using JTDX and I didnt had any problems to work both WSJT-X > or MSHV dxpeds. > > > > Wish you luck ! > > 73 > > Patrik 9A5CW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Datuma pet, 22. ožu 2019. 19:25 Don AA5AU <aa...@be... piše: > > I've not run MSHV or JTDX on FT8 yet. My preference is WSJT-X so I don't > know how to spot a DX station running one of these clones. Is there a way > to tell what the DX station is using (when using multiple streams)? > > > > Today I had a difficult time working 5T5PA. Nearly all spots said he was > running F/H and none said he wasn't (he probably is running F/H), but it > took longer than 10 minutes for me to complete the contact when it didn't > seem like it should have been that difficult. I was tempted to turn F/H off > but I didn't. I did finally get RR73 from him. > > > > Are there certainly things we can look for in determining if the DX is > running F/H? If so, what are these tell-tale signs? I'm a little frustrated > with the different approaches from FT8 clones and DXpeditions that use > them. It's starting to create a lot of confusion that seems unnecessary. It > would be nice if it was possible for WSJT-X to determine if the station is > running F/H or not and display it somehow. I think if the DX is running F/H > and the caller is not (and using WSJT-X) that the caller will get a > warning, but it seems we need something more to identify F/H and non-F/H > stations. > > > > If a DX station is running MSHV and the stations calling are running F/H, > is it possible to still make a contact? Also, vice versa, if the DX is > running F/H and the calling station is not, can a QSO be completed? > > > > Also, it would be nice if the F/H transmit timer for Hounds could be > extended longer than 2 minutes Five minutes seems more appropriate. > > > > Don AA5AU > > _______________________________________________ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsj...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > > _______________________________________________ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsj...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > |
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From: Black M. <mdb...@ya...> - 2019-03-23 03:41:07
Attachments:
image001.jpg
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The red is simply 2 channels of F/H with only one message in each. The blue is 2 channels each having 2 messages.Therefore they are both F/H. MSHV does not do F/H. They do multi-channel single message which is compatible with standard FT8.
de Mike W9MDB
On Friday, March 22, 2019, 5:53:52 PM CDT, Don Hill AA5AU <aa...@be...> wrote:
Thanks Patrick, but I don't know that what you say is true. Here is a screenshot from XR0ZRC which shows a couple of transmissions.
The transmission outlined in red seems like MSHV but the transmission in blue looks like F/H?
I think both are MSHV?
Don AA5AU
From: Patrick 9A5CW [mailto:pat...@gm...]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 2:34 PM
To: WSJT software development
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] F/H vs. MSHV vs. JTDX
Hi Don,
Only MSHV have implemented multi answering protocol or so called F/H.
JTDX doesnt have Fox mode at all, but can work/call both WSJT-X or MSHV Foxes!
Simple, MSHV in most cases Run a Fox in both periods in the middle of the spectrum. Each slot send only one specific message to a caller.
AA5AU ZL7X -12
9A5CW ZL7X R-11
AL7KK RR73
....
Etc... so it can answer even callers calling him with report instead od Grid.
It doesnt have Hound frequency control as it is in WSJT-X when R-11 report its send under 1000 Hz, you can call him wherever you want but you must be in his RX passband. Normaly the passband is defined by his TX freq + - 1500Hz.
Short Tip ;) if u figure out that he is using MSHV call him as lower as you can ;) 400 to 500Hz does the job very well! Dont move your TX freq next sequence, except due big QRM. If you dont get his RR73 call him again beacuse he probably switched to another station after 2 minutes or less depends by what time is set into QSo timer in the program.
I am normaly using JTDX and I didnt had any problems to work both WSJT-X or MSHV dxpeds.
Wish you luck !
73
Patrik 9A5CW
Datuma pet, 22. ožu 2019. 19:25 Don AA5AU <aa...@be... piše:
I've not run MSHV or JTDX on FT8 yet. My preference is WSJT-X so I don't know how to spot a DX station running one of these clones. Is there a way to tell what the DX station is using (when using multiple streams)?
Today I had a difficult time working 5T5PA. Nearly all spots said he was running F/H and none said he wasn't (he probably is running F/H), but it took longer than 10 minutes for me to complete the contact when it didn't seem like it should have been that difficult. I was tempted to turn F/H off but I didn't. I did finally get RR73 from him.
Are there certainly things we can look for in determining if the DX is running F/H? If so, what are these tell-tale signs? I'm a little frustrated with the different approaches from FT8 clones and DXpeditions that use them. It's starting to create a lot of confusion that seems unnecessary. It would be nice if it was possible for WSJT-X to determine if the station is running F/H or not and display it somehow. I think if the DX is running F/H and the caller is not (and using WSJT-X) that the caller will get a warning, but it seems we need something more to identify F/H and non-F/H stations.
If a DX station is running MSHV and the stations calling are running F/H, is it possible to still make a contact? Also, vice versa, if the DX is running F/H and the calling station is not, can a QSO be completed?
Also, it would be nice if the F/H transmit timer for Hounds could be extended longer than 2 minutes Five minutes seems more appropriate.
Don AA5AU
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
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From: Don H. A. <aa...@be...> - 2019-03-23 04:02:03
Attachments:
image001.jpg
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I've worked XR0ZRC four times on FT8 and did not use F/H at any time. So unless it's possible to work Foxes and not use F/H or unless they have changed their mode of operation midstream, I don't believe this is F/H. Could be. I don't know. This is my point. It's too hard to tell. There's needs to be some sort of defining element. There could be one. Are we just not seeing it yet? Don AA5AU From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsj...@li...] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 10:33 PM To: 'WSJT software development' Cc: Black Michael Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] F/H vs. MSHV vs. JTDX The red is simply 2 channels of F/H with only one message in each. The blue is 2 channels each having 2 messages. Therefore they are both F/H. MSHV does not do F/H. They do multi-channel single message which is compatible with standard FT8. de Mike W9MDB On Friday, March 22, 2019, 5:53:52 PM CDT, Don Hill AA5AU <aa...@be...> wrote: Thanks Patrick, but I don't know that what you say is true. Here is a screenshot from XR0ZRC which shows a couple of transmissions example2.jpg The transmission outlined in red seems like MSHV but the transmission in blue looks like F/H? I think both are MSHV? Don AA5AU From: Patrick 9A5CW [mailto:pat...@gm...] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 2:34 PM To: WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] F/H vs. MSHV vs. JTDX Hi Don, Only MSHV have implemented multi answering protocol or so called F/H. JTDX doesnt have Fox mode at all, but can work/call both WSJT-X or MSHV Foxes! Simple, MSHV in most cases Run a Fox in both periods in the middle of the spectrum. Each slot send only one specific message to a caller. AA5AU ZL7X -12 9A5CW ZL7X R-11 AL7KK RR73 .... Etc... so it can answer even callers calling him with report instead od Grid. It doesnt have Hound frequency control as it is in WSJT-X when R-11 report its send under 1000 Hz, you can call him wherever you want but you must be in his RX passband. Normaly the passband is defined by his TX freq + - 1500Hz. Short Tip ;) if u figure out that he is using MSHV call him as lower as you can ;) 400 to 500Hz does the job very well! Dont move your TX freq next sequence, except due big QRM. If you dont get his RR73 call him again beacuse he probably switched to another station after 2 minutes or less depends by what time is set into QSo timer in the program. I am normaly using JTDX and I didnt had any problems to work both WSJT-X or MSHV dxpeds. Wish you luck ! 73 Patrik 9A5CW Datuma pet, 22. ožu 2019. 19:25 Don AA5AU <aa...@be... piše: I've not run MSHV or JTDX on FT8 yet. My preference is WSJT-X so I don't know how to spot a DX station running one of these clones. Is there a way to tell what the DX station is using (when using multiple streams)? Today I had a difficult time working 5T5PA. Nearly all spots said he was running F/H and none said he wasn't (he probably is running F/H), but it took longer than 10 minutes for me to complete the contact when it didn't seem like it should have been that difficult. I was tempted to turn F/H off but I didn't. I did finally get RR73 from him. Are there certainly things we can look for in determining if the DX is running F/H? If so, what are these tell-tale signs? I'm a little frustrated with the different approaches from FT8 clones and DXpeditions that use them. It's starting to create a lot of confusion that seems unnecessary. It would be nice if it was possible for WSJT-X to determine if the station is running F/H or not and display it somehow. I think if the DX is running F/H and the caller is not (and using WSJT-X) that the caller will get a warning, but it seems we need something more to identify F/H and non-F/H stations. If a DX station is running MSHV and the stations calling are running F/H, is it possible to still make a contact? Also, vice versa, if the DX is running F/H and the calling station is not, can a QSO be completed? Also, it would be nice if the F/H transmit timer for Hounds could be extended longer than 2 minutes Five minutes seems more appropriate. Don AA5AU _______________________________________________ wsjt-devel mailing list wsj...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel _______________________________________________ wsjt-devel mailing list wsj...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel |
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From: Black M. <mdb...@ya...> - 2019-03-23 04:22:47
Attachments:
image001.jpg
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The double messages in blue are most definitely F/H. That's the only way you squeeze two messages in one transmit slot. Therefore the other messages are also Fox.
Perhaps Joe could comment on this...but it does appear all messages still get decoded even if you're not in Hound mode.
Mike
On Friday, March 22, 2019, 11:01:55 PM CDT, Don Hill AA5AU <aa...@be...> wrote:
I've worked XR0ZRC four times on FT8 and did not use F/H at any time. So unless it's possible to work Foxes and not use F/H or unless they have changed their mode of operation midstream, I don't believe this is F/H.
Could be. I don't know.
This is my point. It's too hard to tell. There's needs to be some sort of defining element. There could be one. Are we just not seeing it yet?
Don AA5AU
From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsj...@li...]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 10:33 PM
To: 'WSJT software development'
Cc: Black Michael
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] F/H vs. MSHV vs. JTDX
The red is simply 2 channels of F/H with only one message in each. The blue is 2 channels each having 2 messages.
Therefore they are both F/H. MSHV does not do F/H. They do multi-channel single message which is compatible with standard FT8.
de Mike W9MDB
On Friday, March 22, 2019, 5:53:52 PM CDT, Don Hill AA5AU <aa...@be...> wrote:
Thanks Patrick, but I don't know that what you say is true. Here is a screenshot from XR0ZRC which shows a couple of transmissions
The transmission outlined in red seems like MSHV but the transmission in blue looks like F/H?
I think both are MSHV?
Don AA5AU
From: Patrick 9A5CW [mailto:pat...@gm...]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 2:34 PM
To: WSJT software development
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] F/H vs. MSHV vs. JTDX
Hi Don,
Only MSHV have implemented multi answering protocol or so called F/H.
JTDX doesnt have Fox mode at all, but can work/call both WSJT-X or MSHV Foxes!
Simple, MSHV in most cases Run a Fox in both periods in the middle of the spectrum. Each slot send only one specific message to a caller.
AA5AU ZL7X -12
9A5CW ZL7X R-11
AL7KK RR73
....
Etc... so it can answer even callers calling him with report instead od Grid.
It doesnt have Hound frequency control as it is in WSJT-X when R-11 report its send under 1000 Hz, you can call him wherever you want but you must be in his RX passband. Normaly the passband is defined by his TX freq + - 1500Hz.
Short Tip ;) if u figure out that he is using MSHV call him as lower as you can ;) 400 to 500Hz does the job very well! Dont move your TX freq next sequence, except due big QRM. If you dont get his RR73 call him again beacuse he probably switched to another station after 2 minutes or less depends by what time is set into QSo timer in the program.
I am normaly using JTDX and I didnt had any problems to work both WSJT-X or MSHV dxpeds.
Wish you luck !
73
Patrik 9A5CW
Datuma pet, 22. ožu 2019. 19:25 Don AA5AU <aa...@be... piše:
I've not run MSHV or JTDX on FT8 yet. My preference is WSJT-X so I don't know how to spot a DX station running one of these clones. Is there a way to tell what the DX station is using (when using multiple streams)?
Today I had a difficult time working 5T5PA. Nearly all spots said he was running F/H and none said he wasn't (he probably is running F/H), but it took longer than 10 minutes for me to complete the contact when it didn't seem like it should have been that difficult. I was tempted to turn F/H off but I didn't. I did finally get RR73 from him.
Are there certainly things we can look for in determining if the DX is running F/H? If so, what are these tell-tale signs? I'm a little frustrated with the different approaches from FT8 clones and DXpeditions that use them. It's starting to create a lot of confusion that seems unnecessary. It would be nice if it was possible for WSJT-X to determine if the station is running F/H or not and display it somehow. I think if the DX is running F/H and the caller is not (and using WSJT-X) that the caller will get a warning, but it seems we need something more to identify F/H and non-F/H stations.
If a DX station is running MSHV and the stations calling are running F/H, is it possible to still make a contact? Also, vice versa, if the DX is running F/H and the calling station is not, can a QSO be completed?
Also, it would be nice if the F/H transmit timer for Hounds could be extended longer than 2 minutes Five minutes seems more appropriate.
Don AA5AU
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From: Bill S. <g4...@cl...> - 2019-03-23 12:14:08
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On 23/03/2019 04:22, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote: > Perhaps Joe could comment on this...but it does appear all messages > still get decoded even if you're not in Hound mode. Hi Mike, in v1.9 when FT8 DXpedition mode was introduced it was necessary to be in Hound mode to decode the special Fox messages that sign off with one station while starting another QSO by sending a report to a queued station. With v2 the message encoding is uniform and all messages can be decoded whatever mode is set. There is still some work to be done for WSJT-X to correctly interpret messages when set to the wrong special operation mode. This is non-trivial as there are many possibilities with DXpedition mode and contest mode messages, interpreting them all from every setup is probably not ever going to be implemented. In general users must take responsibility for correctly configuring the WSJT-X application although I understand it can be tricky when DXpeditions have a choice of applications which behave differently. The most likely way to identify that WSJT-X DXpedition mode is in use is that the DX station will be operating on a frequency away from the normal FT8 slots and they should be pre-announcing their frequency schedules and operation plans. 73 Bill G4WJS. |
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