Re: [Workrave-user] Inactivity timeout configuration

[Kees-Jan Dijkzeul <kees-jan.dijkzeul@ia...>]

I guess you hit the nail on its head:

Workrave is designed for controlling the time spent typing.

If you are trying to solve any other problem than that, one needs to
wonder if
1. The problem can really be solved
2. It would be a meaningful extension to workrave

As to point 1, I guess experience shows that the answer is "no", and not
for lack of trying. The fundamental problem is that workrave cannot read
your mind and hence cannot know that you are using the computer, unless
you are typing and/or using the mouse. Of course you can make some
educated guesses, by fidding with activity timeouts, or assuming the
user is always using the computer ("Suspend timers when inactive",
anyone?) At one point I even proposed adding webcam support to workrave,
such that workrave can "see" you using the computer. The point is that
all of these educated guesses are bound to be wrong for someone, and
hence require extensive UI support to configure, which brings me to point 2.

Workrave tries to adhere to the unix design goal to "do one thing, and
do it well", as well as to have the right defaults, instead of adding
configuration (Gnome's "less is more" philosophy). I am pretty happy
with where we are in that respect. If your problem is "controlling the
time spent typing", there is no tool I'd recommend over workrave (and
believe me, I've looked), even though configuration is a bit complex
already.

Of course, elements of workrave could be reused to solve other problems
as well. Workrave has really nice break windows. If only we could
measure the time someone is "using" the computer (as opposed to typing),
we could show breaks for that as well. Additionally, we could add
"breaks" for events at specific times, like lunch or coffee breaks.
Workrave also has quite sophisticated activity measurement. We could add
new clocks to measure the time spent in the morning, the afternoon or
the evening. We could... Eh... I'm getting ahead of myself.

The point is, that although parts of workrave could be re-used to do
other things, that does not necessarily mean that it is a meaningful
extension to workrave, because it does not contribute to solving the
problem of "controlling the time spent typing", and will need a lot of
configuration in the UI, which will confuse the main audience.

This is not to say that those other problems are in any way "invalid" or
"unimportant". Just that extending workrave is (imho) not the right
solution.

Groetjes,

Kees-Jan

Re: [Workrave-user] feature-request: Time profiles

[Joe Wells <jbwells@bl...>]

bartlett morgan <bartlett.morgan@...> writes:

> I hope I'm not going to 'left-field' here but on purely face value, those
> ideals you mentioned - working in blocks, spending time with family etc - sound
> like things that you could achieve by being more disciplined in your approach
> than relying on something like software to do.I think software like Workrave
> should serve to enhance ones discipline level, not create it for you. I don't
> think any software can do that for you really.

Nonetheless, relatively small changes in Workrave could make a big
difference in how much help it can provide in enhancing discipline.

I think it can help to understand the situation if you think of your
computer as an extension of your brain.  If there are some things you
are having difficulty getting the biological part of your brain to
handle, you can compensate with the silicon part of your brain.

-- 
Joe

> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Joe Wells <jbwells@...> wrote:
>
>     Paul Kohler <hexbolt42@...> writes:
>
>     > I'd like to be able to limit the amount of time I spend working or
>     > browsing during certain time intervals. A hypothetical example: during a
>     > normal work morning, I could put in up to 5 hours; after making|having
>     > lunch I could put in another 4 hours before dinner; after dinner, I
>     > would prefer to spend time with the family, so I'd have an upper limit
>     > of 1 hour for browsing before bed.
>
>     Yes, it would be nice if Workrave directly supported what you are
>     asking for.
>
>     I don't know if this helps, but here is what I did.
>
>     I ended up doing this separately, by writing a program that analyzed
>     ~/.workrave/idlelog..log.  Anyway, I needed to make it reward-based
>     rather than relying on Workrave to block me.  See earlier messages on
>     this mailing list.
>
>     You might also try programmatically adjusting Workrave's settings via
>     cron jobs that run at specific times.  For an example of how to do
>     this, see this bug report:
>
>      http://issues.workrave.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=770
>
>     I hope this message is helpful.
>
>     --
>     With my best regards,
>
>     Joe
>
>     > I'm new to this mailing list, so please do let me know if this is
>     > already suggested.
>     >
>     > Paul
>
> --
> Bartlett Morgan

Re: [Workrave-user] Inactivity timeout configuration

[Joe Wells <jbwells@bl...>]

Ray Satiro <raysatiro@...> writes:

> Hi Javier,
>
> I use activity insensitive timers as well. We discussed the issue
> you describe last year but there isn't a real demand for it.

Well, _I_ also want it.

It seems to me that the issue is that Workrave is designed for
controlling time spent _typing_, whereas some of us would prefer to
have something for controlling time spent _using_ the computer.
Workrave seems to already be in good shape for controlling typing, but
the way inactivity detection works (the timeouts, etc.) has trouble
with accurately measuring use (which includes periods of sitting at
the computer reading and occasionally pressing 1 or 2 keys).

It may be enough to just give a good user interface to the controls
Workrave already has.  I think there are some GConf settings that can
be used but I have never had time to figure them out and verify which
settings have the right effect for me.

It does not help that Workrave's GConf settings are poorly documented.
Not only is the documentation sketchy for those controls that are
documented, but Workrave also has lots of undocumented GConf settings.
(I once searched through the source code for this and realized that
many settings have never been mentioned anywhere outside the source
code.)

-- 
Joe

> I understand where you're
> coming from and I'll revisit the issue later this year.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hello all,
>
> I was wondering if it's possible to configure the inactivity timeout in any
> way.
>
> The use case for this is the following: - If 'Suspend timer when inactive'
> option is not set for all timers, the time tracked isn't exactly the time I've
> been working, but the time the computer has been switched on. - If 'Suspend
> timer when inactive' option is set for all timers, the time tracked is also not
> completely accurate because I may spend some time reading without pressing any
> key or moving the mouse.
>
> Hence, I'd like to have a way to configure the inactivity timeout so that I can
> set it to a reasonable amount depending on the type of activity I'm doing. For
> example, a timeout of 30 seconds would be more accurate than one of 5 seconds
> in my case.
>
> Best regards, Javier

Re: [Workrave-user] Inactivity timeout configuration

[Javier Collado <javier.collado@gm...>]

Thanks for your response Ray.

2009/8/11 Ray Satiro <raysatiro@...>:
> Hi Javier,
>
> I use activity insensitive timers as well. We discussed the issue you
> describe last year but there isn't a real demand for it. I understand where
> you're coming from and I'll revisit the issue later this year.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hello all,
>
> I was wondering if it's possible to configure the inactivity timeout in any
> way.
>
> The use case for this is the following: - If 'Suspend timer when inactive'
> option is not set for all timers, the time tracked isn't exactly the time
> I've been working, but the time the computer has been switched on. - If
> 'Suspend timer when inactive' option is set for all timers, the time tracked
> is also not completely accurate because I may spend some time reading
> without pressing any key or moving the mouse.
>
> Hence, I'd like to have a way to configure the inactivity timeout so that I
> can set it to a reasonable amount depending on the type of activity I'm
> doing. For example, a timeout of 30 seconds would be more accurate than one
> of 5 seconds in my case.
>
> Best regards, Javier
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Workrave-user] Using workrave with a wireless mouse

[Ray Satiro <raysatiro@ya...>]

Hello Marc,

As Kees-Jan says, the answer depends on the version and operating system you are using. If you are using Workrave 1.8.5 on Windows I can give instructions for an alternate activity monitor. But first check under your mouse for dust, dirt, hair, smudges, etc.

Workrave 1.8.5 on Windows uses a built in Windows function to check input. Other programs also use the same function. For example, Windows screensaver. Enable your screensaver and set idle time to one minute. If you do not notice your screensaver coming on after one minute of idle it is because Windows detects recent input. A faulty mouse -- like a misfiring laser mouse -- is not the only hardware that can can cause this issue but it is the most likely, like
 99%.


-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,


The workrave program is not working for me when I have a wireless mouse plugged in. The computer never goes into "rest" mode as I assume that the wireless receiver is continuously sending a signal. Is there a workaround for this? 



Thank you,

Marc Schmitter
Employee Health Specialist
Saint Francis Memorial Hospital
900 Hyde Street, 2nd Floor
San Francisco, CA 94109
Tel: 415-353-6842
Fax: 415-353-6810 




      

Re: [Workrave-user] Using workrave with a wireless mouse

[Kees-Jan Dijkzeul <kees-jan.dijkzeul@ia...>]

Hi,

Many people use workrave with wireless mice (me being one of them), and 
it should "just work"

Just to be sure:

    * Which operating system are you using? (i.e. which version of
      Windows/Linux/...)
    * Which mouse are you using?
    * Which version of workrave are you using?
    * When you open the "statistics" window of workrave, on the
      "activity" tab. can you confirm that the top two items ("Mouse
      usage" and "Mouse movement") keep increasing even if you are not
      touching the mouse?

Thanks!

Groetjes,

Kees-Jan

Re: [Workrave-user] Inactivity timeout configuration

[Ray Satiro <raysatiro@ya...>]

Hi Javier,

 I use activity insensitive timers as well. We discussed the issue you describe last year but there isn't a real demand for it. I understand where you're coming from and I'll revisit the issue later this year.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hello all, 

I was wondering if it's possible to configure the inactivity timeout in any way. 

The use case for this is the following: - If 'Suspend timer when inactive' option is not set for all timers, the time tracked isn't exactly the time I've been working, but the time the computer has been switched on. - If 'Suspend timer when inactive' option is set for all timers, the time tracked is also not completely accurate because I may spend some time reading without pressing any key or moving the mouse. 

Hence, I'd like to have a way to configure the inactivity timeout so that I can set it to a reasonable amount depending on the type of activity I'm doing. For example, a timeout of 30 seconds would be more accurate than one of 5 seconds in my case. 

Best regards, Javier 





      

[Workrave-user] Using workrave with a wireless mouse

[Schmitter, Marc - SFMH <Marc.Schmitter@ch...>]

Hi, 

 

The workrave program is not working for me when I have a wireless mouse
plugged in. The computer never goes into "rest" mode as I assume that
the wireless receiver is continuously sending a signal. Is there a
workaround for this?

 

Thank you,

Marc Schmitter 
Employee Health Specialist
Saint Francis Memorial Hospital 
900 Hyde Street, 2nd Floor 
San Francisco, CA 94109 
Tel: 415-353-6842 
Fax: 415-353-6810 
Marc.Schmitter@... <mailto:Marc.Schmitter@...> 

P Printing in haste, makes more waste; keep it green and read from your
screen

 

[Workrave-user] Inactivity timeout configuration

[Javier Collado <javier.collado@gm...>]

Hello all,

I was wondering if it's possible to configure the inactivity timeout in any way.

The use case for this is the following:
- If 'Suspend timer when inactive' option is not set for all timers,
the time tracked isn't exactly the time I've been working, but the
time the computer has been switched on.
- If 'Suspend timer when inactive' option is set for all timers, the
time tracked is also not completely accurate because I may spend some
time reading without pressing any key or moving the mouse.

Hence, I'd like to have a way to configure the inactivity timeout so
that I can set it to a reasonable amount depending on the type of
activity I'm doing. For example, a timeout of 30 seconds would be more
accurate than one of 5 seconds in my case.

Best regards,
    Javier