wix-users

RE: [WiX-users] Conditional installation of features

[Riko E. <ri...@ko...>]

Hi

I am of the "stick-to-MSI-rules-because-they're-good-for-you"
orientation, and generally when you get to the point where you have to
resort to a "really icky solution" it might just suit you better if you
rethink the way your install works.

In this case, I would agree with Jason, who suggested you rather use the
AddLocal/AddSource/Remove/SetInstallLevel actions from UI controls
instead of trying to toggle the feature conditions after CostFinalize.
Basically, MSI works like this:

* decide what features you want to present to the user (before
CostFinalize)
* the user chooses the features he wants to install (after CostFinalize)
* you install the features the user selected

So if you have to do something which you shouldn't be doing (like
setting feature conditions after costfinalize) it's usually a sign that
you're doing something the Windows Installer designers THOUGHT you
shouldn't be doing. And best to find another way.

A good example is the good old "Full install, Minimal Install, Custom
Install" screen. If you decompile one or two standard installs, you'll
see that selecting full install usually does an ADDLOCAL=3DALL thing.
While selecting Minimal install usually sets INSTALLLEVEL=3D1 or =
something
similar.

My suggestion, come up with a different way to design your UI. If you
explain what you want to do, and post it here, myself and many others
would be more than willing to help.

Sorry for the rant <smile/>

Riko

-----Original Message-----
From: wix...@li...
[mailto:wix...@li...] On Behalf Of Martin
Muenstermann
Sent: 23 November 2004 10:44
To: ro...@us...
Cc: wix...@li...
Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Conditional installation of features

Rob Mensching wrote:
> Ick, ick, ick.  I don't know if anything goes wrong doing that, but=20
> that is a really icky solution.

Maybe. Do you have a better solution?
I think it is possible as SelectionTree chooses features at UI runtime.
What I try to implement is a set of mutually exclusive features,
choosable thru radio buttons.
A working fragment would be highly appreciated.

Martin

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Vagmi Mudumbai <vag...@gm...>
> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:20:11 +0530
> Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Conditional installation of features
> To: Jason Swager <js...@al...>
>=20
>=20
> You can forcefully call CostFinalize from a VBScript custom action to=20
> reevaluate the states. Use the DoAction method of the Session object=20
> to run CostFinalize from a custom aciton in ur UI. Alternatively, if=20
> you detest VBScript custom actions, you can use the MsiDoAction() API=20
> from a C++ DLL custom action.


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RE: [WiX-users] Conditional installation of features

[Riko E. <ri...@ko...>]

Martin...

Unfortunately I've never tried creating a localized install before, and
therefore I'm probably the wrong person to try and help you. Luckily Rob
Mensching (the "inventor" of WiX) has just posted a great article on
localization of installs (http://blogs.msdn.com/robmen).

First off, you should probably be aware that you might be breaking the
component rules, which can lead to all kinds of problems. One of the
rules is that you shouldn't have two files with the same name that go to
the same location as the key file of two different components (I think
that sentence makes sense). For more on the component rules, see Rob's
Component Rules 101
(http://blogs.msdn.com/robmen/archive/2003/10/18/56497.aspx) and the MSI
SDK Help
(http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=3D/library/en-us/msi/s=
e
tup/what_happens_if_the_component_rules_are_broken.asp)

So, apart from the fact that you might be making things difficult for
yourself with the component rules, I don't think using the feature
screen is the best way to have the user select his language. One
solution is separate installs for the various languages (but this is
probably not what you want). Another is using component conditions
instead of feature conditions. Let the user indicate has language choice
somewhere else (with a dialog, and put it in a property, or set the
property on the command line) and use that to condition your components.
Component conditions are not limited to the same restrictions as feature
conditions. Although there are other things to consider (see the MSI
help).

Anyway, someone with localization experience might have more to offer.

Golden rule: Features are the "user-visible" bits of the install, you
use them to let the user choose what bits he want to install. If you
want to control the structure on your own, the component-level is where
the install developer tinkers at. Features are traditionally not the
best way for "either-or" kind of scenarios.

(Although, coming to think of it, if you want the user to select more
than one language, features might be helpful. But in that case it would
still be better to condition the components themselves based on which
features were selected - see Conditional Statement Syntax in the MSI
Help
(http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=3D/library/en-us/msi/s=
e
tup/conditional_statement_syntax.asp) ).

Hope this helps
Riko

P.S. An example might be good:
A condition of
	!MyFeature<=3D2 AND &MyFeature=3D3
evaluates to true if the current state of the feature is not installed,
and the target action for the feature is to be installed locally.
(Somebody help me if I'm wrong)

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Muenstermann [mailto:mar...@cy...]
Sent: 23 November 2004 13:19
To: wix...@li...
Cc: Riko Eksteen
Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Conditional installation of features

Hi,

I just noticed my description was not accurate, I mixed components and
features:

So currently I have the following components C1. exe for language A C2.
exe for language B C3. shared dlls

And the features
F1: Install C1 and C3
F2: Install C2 and C3

>  From the UI I try to select feature 1 *or* feature 2.
Please note that C1 and C2 shall not be installed both.
> I experimented a little with ADDLOCAL but so far without success,=20
> maybe only a small level or sequence issue.
>=20
> BTW: The application has a <Extension> and <MIME>. This does not seem=20
> to fit well into my feature layout, as they can be contained only in=20
> one feature. But then, how to connect them to the actually exe to be
installed?
feature --> component

Martin

Re: [WiX-users] Conditional installation of features

[Martin M. <mar...@cy...>]

Hi

Riko Eksteen wrote:
> I am of the "stick-to-MSI-rules-because-they're-good-for-you"
> orientation, and generally when you get to the point where you have to
> resort to a "really icky solution" it might just suit you better if you
> rethink the way your install works.

ACK. I am more than willing to avoid icky workarounds.

> In this case, I would agree with Jason, who suggested you rather use the
> AddLocal/AddSource/Remove/SetInstallLevel actions from UI controls
> instead of trying to toggle the feature conditions after CostFinalize.
> Basically, MSI works like this:
> 
> * decide what features you want to present to the user (before
> CostFinalize)
> * the user chooses the features he wants to install (after CostFinalize)
> * you install the features the user selected

Thanks for the explanation.

> So if you have to do something which you shouldn't be doing (like
> setting feature conditions after costfinalize) it's usually a sign that
> you're doing something the Windows Installer designers THOUGHT you
> shouldn't be doing. And best to find another way.

It's a little hard for a beginner to learn what the designers thought of 
how to use win installer sdk... ;-)
But you are perfectly right, it usually is best to use tools the way 
they were thought to be used.

> A good example is the good old "Full install, Minimal Install, Custom
> Install" screen. If you decompile one or two standard installs, you'll
> see that selecting full install usually does an ADDLOCAL=ALL thing.
> While selecting Minimal install usually sets INSTALLLEVEL=1 or something
> similar.
> 
> My suggestion, come up with a different way to design your UI. If you
> explain what you want to do, and post it here, myself and many others
> would be more than willing to help.

I try to install one of a set of localized versions of my application 
out of one MSI. For reasons I cannot control, the localized exes all 
have the same file name, so only one version can be installed.

So currently I have the following features
1. exe for language A
2. exe for language B
3. shared dlls

 From the UI I try to select feature 1 *or* feature 2.
I experimented a little with ADDLOCAL but so far without success, maybe 
only a small level or sequence issue.

BTW: The application has a <Extension> and <MIME>. This does not seem to 
fit well into my feature layout, as they can be contained only in one 
feature. But then, how to connect them to the actually exe to be installed?

> Sorry for the rant <smile/>
Rant? What rant?? I am a great friend of detailed analysis and 
explanations. :-)

Thanks,
  Martin

Re: [WiX-users] Conditional installation of features

[Martin M. <mar...@cy...>]

Hi,

I just noticed my description was not accurate, I mixed components and 
features:

So currently I have the following components
C1. exe for language A
C2. exe for language B
C3. shared dlls

And the features
F1: Install C1 and C3
F2: Install C2 and C3

>  From the UI I try to select feature 1 *or* feature 2.
Please note that C1 and C2 shall not be installed both.
> I experimented a little with ADDLOCAL but so far without success, maybe 
> only a small level or sequence issue.
> 
> BTW: The application has a <Extension> and <MIME>. This does not seem to 
> fit well into my feature layout, as they can be contained only in one 
> feature. But then, how to connect them to the actually exe to be installed?
feature --> component

Martin

Re: [WiX-users] Conditional installation of features

[Vagmi M. <vag...@gm...>]

As C3 forms a part of both the features F1 and F2, you can nest the
features as a part of a common feature and add C3 to the Feature F0 or
F3 as you might like to call it. This also overcomes the limitation
with the Class table which has reference to the Feature table. I am
not sure how the WIX toolset handles it but I had quite a lot of
problems with InstallShield and ended up with broken installs. So I
make it a practice to nest features and have the common components as
a part of the parent feature. I am sure Windows Installer would have a
way to handle components going to multiple features but I would prefer
being as unambigious as possible.


On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:19:16 +0100, Martin Muenstermann
<mar...@cy...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I just noticed my description was not accurate, I mixed components and
> features:
> 
> So currently I have the following components
> C1. exe for language A
> C2. exe for language B
> C3. shared dlls
> 
> And the features
> F1: Install C1 and C3
> F2: Install C2 and C3
> 
> >  From the UI I try to select feature 1 *or* feature 2.
> Please note that C1 and C2 shall not be installed both.
> > I experimented a little with ADDLOCAL but so far without success, maybe
> > only a small level or sequence issue.
> >
> > BTW: The application has a <Extension> and <MIME>. This does not seem to
> > fit well into my feature layout, as they can be contained only in one
> > feature. But then, how to connect them to the actually exe to be installed?
> feature --> component
> 
> 
> 
> Martin
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/
> _______________________________________________
> WiX-users mailing list
> WiX...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
> 


-- 
Vagmi
http://installneo.blogspot.com

Re: [WiX-users] Conditional installation of features

[Tony H. <tm...@no...>]

Vagmi Mudumbai wrote:
> a part of the parent feature. I am sure Windows Installer would have a
> way to handle components going to multiple features but I would prefer
> being as unambigious as possible.

It doesn't appear to (component is a child of directory, so can only 
exist in one place).  Probably breaks the rules.

I ended up duplicating components in each directory that needed them.... 
  it bloated the install but seemed ot work.

Tony

RE: [WiX-users] Conditional installation of features

[Rob M. <ro...@us...>]

Vagmi,

If you have a Component being shared by two Features, you will have to mark
one of them Primary='yes'.  That tells the WiX toolset to hook all of the
advertised entry points (like the Class table and advertised Shortcuts) to
the "primary" Feature.  Of course, as you noted the Windows Installer can
behave a little strangely when you share advertised Components so your
suggestion below is pretty decent advice.

-----Original Message-----
From: wix...@li...
[mailto:wix...@li...] On Behalf Of Vagmi Mudumbai
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 3:33 AM
To: Martin Muenstermann; wix...@li...
Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Conditional installation of features

As C3 forms a part of both the features F1 and F2, you can nest the
features as a part of a common feature and add C3 to the Feature F0 or
F3 as you might like to call it. This also overcomes the limitation
with the Class table which has reference to the Feature table. I am
not sure how the WIX toolset handles it but I had quite a lot of
problems with InstallShield and ended up with broken installs. So I
make it a practice to nest features and have the common components as
a part of the parent feature. I am sure Windows Installer would have a
way to handle components going to multiple features but I would prefer
being as unambigious as possible.


On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:19:16 +0100, Martin Muenstermann
<mar...@cy...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I just noticed my description was not accurate, I mixed components and
> features:
> 
> So currently I have the following components
> C1. exe for language A
> C2. exe for language B
> C3. shared dlls
> 
> And the features
> F1: Install C1 and C3
> F2: Install C2 and C3
> 
> >  From the UI I try to select feature 1 *or* feature 2.
> Please note that C1 and C2 shall not be installed both.
> > I experimented a little with ADDLOCAL but so far without success, maybe
> > only a small level or sequence issue.
> >
> > BTW: The application has a <Extension> and <MIME>. This does not seem to
> > fit well into my feature layout, as they can be contained only in one
> > feature. But then, how to connect them to the actually exe to be
installed?
> feature --> component
> 
> 
> 
> Martin
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/
> _______________________________________________
> WiX-users mailing list
> WiX...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
> 


-- 
Vagmi
http://installneo.blogspot.com


-------------------------------------------------------
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. 
http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/
_______________________________________________
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RE: [WiX-users] Conditional installation of features

[Rob M. <ro...@us...>]

Martin, I just caught the last paragraph and realized that Vagmi and I may
have answered the wrong question previously.

The problem you describe with Extension and Mime information is real.
Ideally you would create a single language neutral executable and toss that
executable plus its relevant registration together.  This is the
recommendation I make in my blog (http://blogs.msdn.com/robmen) about
localization (I'm offline right now, I can send the link to you later if you
can't find it).

Unfortunately, in your situation, you'll either have to duplicate the
registration or put the Extension and Mime information in a separate
Component.  Now, the wix.xsd does not seem to support the second option so
if you *really* need this functionality, we'd need to get a FeatureRequest
opened and fixed (probably wouldn't be too bad).

If you do the first option (duplicate the registration), then as Riko
mentioned, you'll want to make sure that your two Components are mutually
exclusive using a Condition.  That way the registration will always be owned
by only one Component on the machine.  If the Components are not mutually
exclusive then you can end up with scenarios where removing one language
removes the other language at the same time (as per the Component Rules).

Anyway, the current design leads to all kinds of complications for setup.
If you have the ability, I would highly suggest going back to the
development team and suggesting that if at all possible they create a
language neutral executable.  Everything just works out better in that case.


-----Original Message-----
From: wix...@li...
[mailto:wix...@li...] On Behalf Of Martin
Muenstermann
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 3:19 AM
To: wix...@li...
Cc: Riko Eksteen
Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Conditional installation of features

Hi,

I just noticed my description was not accurate, I mixed components and 
features:

So currently I have the following components
C1. exe for language A
C2. exe for language B
C3. shared dlls

And the features
F1: Install C1 and C3
F2: Install C2 and C3

>  From the UI I try to select feature 1 *or* feature 2.
Please note that C1 and C2 shall not be installed both.
> I experimented a little with ADDLOCAL but so far without success, maybe 
> only a small level or sequence issue.
> 
> BTW: The application has a <Extension> and <MIME>. This does not seem to 
> fit well into my feature layout, as they can be contained only in one 
> feature. But then, how to connect them to the actually exe to be
installed?
feature --> component

Martin


-------------------------------------------------------
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. 
http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/
_______________________________________________
WiX-users mailing list
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users