Re: [Webwork-devel] RE: Refactorings... Again

[Victor S. <vsa...@ho...>]

>Please don't say that we did not communicate this, I sent numerous mail to 
>the dev list for input and suggestion on how to make WebWork core more 
>seperated from the view stuff. Can't see that I got any mail from either of 
>you that are complaining. The goal of this refactoring is, as said, to 
>separate the core and the view, and to factor out most of the 3rd party 
>libs so that WW deploys smoothly on most containers.
>

I think sourceforge lists are screwing with our minds. I did send an email 
against this refactoring. Anyhow, I do have other emails here from other 
people that voted against the refactoring.

>The plan is to have build several JAR archives:
>- webwork-core.jar,
>- webwork-taglib.jar
>- webwork-velocity.jar
>- webwork-xslt.jar
>- webwork-common.jar
>and webwork-examples.jar,
>

Oh, how nice, maybe can rename the project StrustWork. :) LOL

I could really care less if we have 1 jar, or 100. I am talking for a common 
user, what's easier.. finding out what each jar does or using 1 jar?

I think that maybe we have lost site of perspective what the goal of the 
project is. The aim was to have a lightweight and powerful framework that 
could be extended to your wildest dreams while not being tied to any view 
technology.

And once upon a time, this was true. Today, WebWork is already complicated 
enough for the common PHP wannabe Java Web technology coder. The transition 
of scriptlet fun to -> mvc is enough to scare a lot of fragile minds away.

Now if you add the fact, that now you must figure out which jars to deploy 
and what not, and tweaking different options, etc... It increases the 
learning curve of the frameworks and renders it useless to a lot of people.

>and distribute two WAR archives one with only the common stuff and 
>documentation, and one with common + examples.
>

The principal thing we should have acquired from Struts, we haven't done 
it.. which is to "build skeleton" and an empty jar with all view 
technologies+taglib+etc be in the skeleton. That way I can just tell a user, 
"build skeleton" and start making pages! ... instead of explaining for 20 
minutes what each jar does, the different deployment options, etc...

My only concern here is usability to Joe Bloe who is just starting out using 
this type of technology.

>I've finished the code refactoring now, Matt are going to do extensive 
>debugging and testing of the web-tier before releasing so everything should 
>be Ok within a few days.
>

So, are you positive that there no more movements? Can I refactor my code 
now without fear?

>I know that this was kind of unpolite and disturbed a lot of people - so I 
>appologize. I tried to get input and feedback, not much came. I suggested 
>this solution that are finished now to Rickard and he agreed so I went 
>ahead, with Matt's help since he volunteered.
>
>If there are many of you that step up to the plate and strogly disagree 
>with this we can always revert to the structure that was before I started. 
>Speak now or hold your silence to the 1.0 is released :)
>

Hey, what's done is done, let's see how it works out... By becoming 
StrutsWork we might actually become as popular as they are. :)

>
>FYI, I use IntelliJ, I just didn't disconect it from CVS.
>

Hmm.. bad boy.. naughty boy :)

>/kjetilhp
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Victor Salaman [mailto:vsa...@ho...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:34 AM
> > To: kje...@us...;
> > web...@li...
> > Subject: Refactorings... Again
> >
> >
> > Dude,
> >
> > Make up your mind where you're going to put things finally.
> > Do we have some
> > sort of design document describing the refactoring, or at
> > least some kind of
> > beforehand planning? It certainly doesn't look like it. And
> > since there was
> > no discussion or concensus about this, it is plainly unpolite.
> >
> > It appears that you're winging it, and package names and
> > locations are
> > coming out of the blue...
> >
> > I can't be changing my source every 2 minutes when you decide
> > that it'll
> > look preetier somehow else, as it certainly doesn't add any
> > functionallity
> > or ease of use to the common user.
> >
> > I do have source that breaks every time you say "Refactor".
> >
> > As a suggestion, I'd also tell you to download IDEA and do
> > the refactorings
> > on your PC, and when you're satisfied with the result, then
> > commit. Having
> > an unstable CVS tree, and 1 week refactorings are completely
> > unacceptable.
> >
> > In other words, plan before you commit.
> >
> > I'm speaking for myself, and not anyone else, but I'm sure
> > other people
> > concurr with my feelings.
> >
> > Thanks for your time,
> >
> > /V
> >
> > >From: "Kjetil H.Paulsen" <kje...@us...>
> > >To: app...@us...,
> > >ite...@us...,
> > >mer...@us...,
> > >sor...@us...,
> > >sub...@us...,
> > >web...@li...
> > >Subject: [Webwork-devel] CVS update:
> > >webwork/src/main/webwork/common/view/taglib/iterator
> > >Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 23:15:14 -0800
> > >
> > >Update of
> > >/cvsroot/webwork/webwork/src/main/webwork/common/view/taglib/iterator
> > >In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv11976/taglib/iterator
> > >
> > >Modified Files:
> > >	AppendIteratorTag.java IteratorGeneratorTag.java
> > >	MergeIteratorTag.java SortIteratorTag.java
> > >	SubsetIteratorTag.java
> > >Log Message:
> > >refactoring
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Webwork-devel mailing list
> > >Web...@li...
> > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webwork-devel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>Webwork-devel mailing list
>Web...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webwork-devel




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.