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From: Marc P. <ma...@an...> - 2003-06-10 16:33:30
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On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:13:41 -0700, Brian Goetz <br...@qu...> wrote: >> There's only so much you can add to a simple scripting language. So the >> future surely entails us building "pro" applications and providing >> libraries of instantly usable helpers and context tools to bring WM to >> the forefront of rapid development of web applications and web services. > > I agree with most of what you said, except for this part. I think > much of WM's success has come from its simplicity and our restraint in > keeping the feature set spare. ...but that's exactly what I mean. WM is a finely honed tool. Now we just need some applications that use it, in "user land", not just "developer land". I don't mean these should be part of the WM core code - an optional tree of stuff, available in binary form, developed to a higher quality than normal contrib code. Promoted under the WM umbrella. -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer Currently available for hire! http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ http://www.wangjammers.org |
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From: Brian G. <br...@qu...> - 2003-06-10 16:25:56
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> I'm sorry, did you say "success"? Velocity copied our entire syntax and design. Resin has extended their JSP engine to support WM-style tags. Our design is successful, even if our project is not. |
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From: Marc P. <ma...@an...> - 2003-06-10 16:23:39
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On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:03:42 +0100, Marc Palmer <ma...@an...> wrote: > > Actually the latest IDEA (3.0.4) is working with WM syntax highlighting! [snip] > I'll write a bit on how to do this with IDEA on the Wiki site soon. Done it - it was so easy as someone had already created a page for this with DW info. I tidied it up a bit. http://www.webmacro.org/AuthoringTemplates ...and also added a link to this (as couldn't find it except with search) from http://www.webmacro.org/WebMacroDocumentation -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer Currently available for hire! http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ http://www.wangjammers.org |
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From: Eric B. R. <eb...@tc...> - 2003-06-10 16:19:21
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On Tuesday, June 10, 2003, at 12:13 PM, Brian Goetz wrote:
>> There's only so much you can add to a simple scripting language. So
>> the
>> future surely entails us building "pro" applications and providing
>> libraries of instantly usable helpers and context tools to bring WM
>> to the
>> forefront of rapid development of web applications and web services.
>
> I agree with most of what you said, except for this part. I think
> much of WM's success has come from its simplicity and our restraint in
> keeping the feature set spare.
I'm sorry, did you say "success"?
http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/
index.php?report=last_30&group_id=64597
Are we doing this just for ourselves?
eric
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From: Brian G. <br...@qu...> - 2003-06-10 16:13:56
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> There's only so much you can add to a simple scripting language. So the > future surely entails us building "pro" applications and providing > libraries of instantly usable helpers and context tools to bring WM to the > forefront of rapid development of web applications and web services. I agree with most of what you said, except for this part. I think much of WM's success has come from its simplicity and our restraint in keeping the feature set spare. |
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From: Marc P. <ma...@an...> - 2003-06-10 16:05:01
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Actually the latest IDEA (3.0.4) is working with WM syntax highlighting! It can highlight directives and blocks, and correctly highlights line and block comments. Can't get it to do anything with WM var/tool refs though. I'll write a bit on how to do this with IDEA on the Wiki site soon. -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer Currently available for hire! http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ http://www.wangjammers.org |
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From: Marc P. <ma...@an...> - 2003-06-10 15:58:42
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On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:50:22 -0400, <Kea...@di...> wrote: >> Yes, I was wondering about that. I don't know of any editors that > support >> "plugins" for rendering content. Do you? > > DreamWeaver has this. It used to be that you had to do it in JavaScript > or C, but I think they support Java now too. > > NetBeans makes a pretty good dev environment for WM using its Tomcat > plug-in. Some kind of syntax highlighting/checking would make it really > nice. I tried this once with IDEA but it doesn't like using # as a directive symbol, and the rest of the options are pretty limited. However we definitely need a "Using WebMacro with Authoring Tools" Wiki page and links to downloadable config files and plugins where appropriate. Most of these things can't be that hard to do. -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer Currently available for hire! http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ http://www.wangjammers.org |
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From: <Kea...@di...> - 2003-06-10 15:50:35
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> Yes, I was wondering about that. I don't know of any editors that support > "plugins" for rendering content. Do you? DreamWeaver has this. It used to be that you had to do it in JavaScript or C, but I think they support Java now too. NetBeans makes a pretty good dev environment for WM using its Tomcat plug-in. Some kind of syntax highlighting/checking would make it really nice. Keats |
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From: <Kea...@di...> - 2003-06-10 15:39:48
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I found a minor bug in the parser dealing with invalid directive
descriptors. The parse_directive() method does a
throw new ParseException("Descriptor for directive " + directive + "
is not valid");
but then catches the exception and throws another:
catch (Exception e) {
throw new ParseException("No such directive #" + directive);
}
We just need to add another catch clause to rethrow the ParseException and
then regen the parser.
I don't have javacc set up so I'd appreciate it if someone else could do
this for me.
Thanks.
Keats |
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From: Marc P. <ma...@an...> - 2003-06-10 15:27:21
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On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:11:17 -0400, <Kea...@di...> wrote: > My personal priorities for prepackaged WM apps are: > > - user management: registration, passwords, profiles, etc. with pluggable > back-end (JDBC, LDAP, XML) > - threaded discussion list > - data abstraction layer (a beefed up version of DataTable?) > - WM admin UI > - workflow enabled content management system (probably a pipe dream) By the way I forgot to mention. All of these things can be a hell of a lot easier to implement using the web application framework. With Lane's help the Ignition webapp already has abstracted storage for any data you wish to associate with a visitor to the site, without requiring a login. This is coupled with realtime info about the visitor such as # of pages visited this session, time since previous visit (session) and so on. It uses Lane's VLH which I am reliably informed is about to sprout a nice batch of new documentation. The actual code in the "action" implementation for this is so minimal it's laughable. I also plan a Hibernate based storage implementation. I also think we definitely need a "blog" implementation too. These things really are no big deal once you have all the servlet and parameter hell taken away from you. Marc -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer Currently available for hire! http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ http://www.wangjammers.org |
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From: Marc P. <ma...@an...> - 2003-06-10 15:19:52
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On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:11:17 -0400, <Kea...@di...> wrote: > WM has always stayed focused on just being a template system that works > well and can interoperate with other frameworks. I think that is a good > approach given our limited resources. Absolutely - I'm not suggesting that changes. However applications are - required- if we are to make WM survive in the long term I think. There's only so many tweaks and mods we can make to such a language - it's the "value added" stuff that will bring WM to the masses. > However, having said that, I think that adding out-of-the-box > functionality on top of WM, like a WIKI .war would add tremendous value. > You're wishlist sounds a bit ambitious, but I like the general idea -- as > long as the WM core remains distinct and focused. > > My personal priorities for prepackaged WM apps are: > > - user management: registration, passwords, profiles, etc. with pluggable > back-end (JDBC, LDAP, XML) > - threaded discussion list > - data abstraction layer (a beefed up version of DataTable?) > - WM admin UI > - workflow enabled content management system (probably a pipe dream) Pretty much all of this is in the "to do" list for the webapp am I soon (hehe) to release. > All this on top of core improvements such as > > - code refactoring: removing dead code (e.g., Filter stuff), cleaning up > broker and property operator, etc. > - better documentation > - improved bean/tool management/configuration > - improved whitespace handling Better docs are definitely a must-have. We need to do some cleaning up of the Wiki to remove obsolete info. Also, I have written some quick-start docs about template writing and related WM concepts for the webapp documentation. When you get to see this, we might decide to adapt some of it for the WM Wiki site. > I also dream of integration with tools like DreamWeaver, Eclipse, > NetBeans, jEdit, etc. Yes, I was wondering about that. I don't know of any editors that support "plugins" for rendering content. Do you? -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer Currently available for hire! http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ http://www.wangjammers.org |
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From: <Kea...@di...> - 2003-06-10 15:11:24
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WM has always stayed focused on just being a template system that works well and can interoperate with other frameworks. I think that is a good approach given our limited resources. However, having said that, I think that adding out-of-the-box functionality on top of WM, like a WIKI .war would add tremendous value. You're wishlist sounds a bit ambitious, but I like the general idea -- as long as the WM core remains distinct and focused. My personal priorities for prepackaged WM apps are: - user management: registration, passwords, profiles, etc. with pluggable back-end (JDBC, LDAP, XML) - threaded discussion list - data abstraction layer (a beefed up version of DataTable?) - WM admin UI - workflow enabled content management system (probably a pipe dream) All this on top of core improvements such as - code refactoring: removing dead code (e.g., Filter stuff), cleaning up broker and property operator, etc. - better documentation - improved bean/tool management/configuration - improved whitespace handling I also dream of integration with tools like DreamWeaver, Eclipse, NetBeans, jEdit, etc. I'm sure I could think of lots more, but that should keep me/us busy for a bit. Keats On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:52:36 +0100, Marc Palmer <ma...@an...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I was thinking - we should get some "unified strategy" together for WM > 2.0 and beyond. I forgot to add that we should also aim to provide WM plugins/implementations for common MVC application frameworks in addition to our own applications: i.e. at least Struts and Turbine - I'm sure there are many others. There are so many MVC frameworks around now, it's hard to work out what everything does. Tapestry?! Marc -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer Currently available for hire! http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ http://www.wangjammers.org ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Etnus, makers of TotalView, The best thread debugger on the planet. Designed with thread debugging features you've never dreamed of, try TotalView 6 free at www.etnus.com. _______________________________________________ Webmacro-devel mailing list Web...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webmacro-devel |
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From: Marc P. <ma...@an...> - 2003-06-10 14:00:05
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On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:52:36 +0100, Marc Palmer <ma...@an...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I was thinking - we should get some "unified strategy" together for WM > 2.0 and beyond. I forgot to add that we should also aim to provide WM plugins/implementations for common MVC application frameworks in addition to our own applications: i.e. at least Struts and Turbine - I'm sure there are many others. There are so many MVC frameworks around now, it's hard to work out what everything does. Tapestry?! Marc -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer Currently available for hire! http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ http://www.wangjammers.org |
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From: Marc P. <ma...@an...> - 2003-06-10 13:53:23
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Hi, I was thinking - we should get some "unified strategy" together for WM 2.0 and beyond. I think that the future of WM will lie in exploiting it through (web) applications that people can just download and run, thus raising the profile of the WMScript language. i.e. a Java VM ain't much fun unless you can run some applications that use it. There's only so much you can add to a simple scripting language. So the future surely entails us building "pro" applications and providing libraries of instantly usable helpers and context tools to bring WM to the forefront of rapid development of web applications and web services. To this end I think we should prepare WM 2.0 and add in anything that we need to make a smooth release of my WM Webapp and also of the WM Wiki that Eric has written - both using the solid WM 2.0 code base. We also need to start using the SF bug tracker as agreed a while back. i.e. I think we should also have WM Wiki as a binary download, ready to run. Is this going to be possible any time soon? I was thinking of trying it out on our server, but with a CVS -co and build and lots more learning and what looks like little docs, it will probably take more time than I have right now. An out-of-the-box Wiki .WAR would be a fantastic addition to the WM arsenal. I think this could give us a nice competitive edge over Velocity, as they are focusing on the library plus contrib'd code/apps. Having some "core" applications that build on WM can only be good for demonstrating WM's power and increasing our market share. What do you guys think? Marc -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer Currently available for hire! http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ http://www.wangjammers.org |
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From: Marc P. <ma...@an...> - 2003-06-10 12:41:31
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> p.s. Would it be proper protocol to also send this question the user > list? Actually, yes it probably is better off on webmacro-user, but Lane's given you some detailed info now. Generally I think you are going to find that many visual editors will not work so well with WM template-based content. It depends on whether they are happy editing (and displaying) incomplete HTML documents. Marc -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer Currently available for hire! http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ http://www.wangjammers.org |
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From: Lane S. <la...@op...> - 2003-06-10 04:21:10
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Hi Fred, There has been a lot of discussion about this. For example, I have added into cvs a relaxed evaluation property setting. This setting makes it a lot easier to work with editors like DW. These editors will emit from time to time code which appears to be a webmacro directive. The relaxed evaluation property passes to the output stream every token which begins with # if it is not a valid WM directive. Also, you can of course place WM code in comments but I do not like this. I am hopeful that with the relaxed evaluation setting, you will be able to introduce WM script into your DW file. Let me know. -Lane Duca, Fred wrote: > We presently edit our webmacro templates with text editors; however, > we have some novice web publishers that need to update pages using a > WSIWIG editor like Dreamweaver. Is this possible? If so, what Visual > editor do you recommend? > > > > TIA, > > Fred Duca > > > > p.s. Would it be proper protocol to also send this question the user list? > > > |
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From: Lane S. <la...@op...> - 2003-06-10 04:06:33
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I feel strongly we should realize a release 2.0 of WM before Ignition 1.0; but from the response, I see I am going to have to get out some enforcers :). Friends, there are a lot of good things we have accomplished conceptually and in proof-of-concept. We need to take these accomplishments and roll them up into WM 2.0. If I recall, ebr should have completed the code cosmetology. -Lane Marc Palmer wrote: > On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 13:26:02 -0700, Lane Sharman <la...@op...> > wrote: > >> Is August out of the question for anyone as a month to punch out >> release 2.0? Please advise. > > > I don't know what a release of Ignition would look like in August. It > depends on whether people want it as part of WM, and whether people > can contrib stuff to getting it released. > > The first release I am finalising now (doing license agreements in > source and polishing off etc.) does not have some fundamental things - > user authentication and field validation (versus parameter validation > which is does have some already). > > These will be added in the second release by me, as I need them for a > project and have them designed already, but there's a to-do list > longer than both my arms, and we'd need to agree what is required in > the first release. > > Anyway, I think WM 2.0 should come out before, and separately, from > Ignition 1.0 especially if you guys do decide to bring Ignition into > WM. This way we maximise publicity (two press releases in a couple of > weeks) and hence raise profile further. > > Cheers > > |
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From: Duca, F. <Fre...@ad...> - 2003-06-09 21:44:42
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We presently edit our webmacro templates with text editors; however, we have some novice web publishers that need to update pages using a WSIWIG editor like Dreamweaver. Is this possible? If so, what Visual editor do you recommend? =20 TIA, Fred Duca =20 p.s. Would it be proper protocol to also send this question the user list? =20 |
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From: Marc P. <ma...@an...> - 2003-06-09 12:46:36
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On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 13:26:02 -0700, Lane Sharman <la...@op...> wrote: > Is August out of the question for anyone as a month to punch out release > 2.0? Please advise. I don't know what a release of Ignition would look like in August. It depends on whether people want it as part of WM, and whether people can contrib stuff to getting it released. The first release I am finalising now (doing license agreements in source and polishing off etc.) does not have some fundamental things - user authentication and field validation (versus parameter validation which is does have some already). These will be added in the second release by me, as I need them for a project and have them designed already, but there's a to-do list longer than both my arms, and we'd need to agree what is required in the first release. Anyway, I think WM 2.0 should come out before, and separately, from Ignition 1.0 especially if you guys do decide to bring Ignition into WM. This way we maximise publicity (two press releases in a couple of weeks) and hence raise profile further. Cheers -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer Currently available for hire! http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ http://www.wangjammers.org |
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From: Lane S. <la...@op...> - 2003-06-07 20:39:17
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eric, Could you please do the reformat and any final changes that need to be=20 done to the source before the branch. I do not see a lot of merging of the branch into the head because of all=20 the package reorgs planned. cvs just makes this really difficult. This=20 branch could become a final release 1.1 for some eager beaver while we=20 work on the head. -Lane Lane Sharman wrote: > First, we need to all agree that we are not going to get all our=20 > personal preferences in release 2.0. You just have to get over this=20 > and I think we are all there for the most part. > > 1) Lets agree on a coding standard. Indent=3D4; Block begins on new lin= e=20 > (neither are what I use today btw). Whatever. > > 2) Lets agree on a single month to punch out release 2.0. I propose=20 > Aug. That gives us about six weeks to scope the release; discard the=20 > flooze ideas; and, individually or in small teams get our agreed-to=20 > parts completed and unit-tested. > > 3) In preparation, let's create a branch, WM-Release-1. This finalizes=20 > release 1 and allows some patches to be applied to this branch over=20 > the next year in support of release 1 users. > > Is August out of the question for anyone as a month to punch out=20 > release 2.0? Please advise. > > -Lane > > Marc Palmer wrote: > >> On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:12:33 +0200 (CEST), Endre St=F8lsvik=20 >> <web...@st...> wrote: >> =20 >> >>> What about that Wiki page with "wishlists" for 2.0? USE THIS! >> >> >> =20 >> I have in the past. I've just updated it too. >> =20 >> http://www.webmacro.org/NextRelease >> =20 >> I've also added http://www.webmacro.org/CodeStyle for when we work=20 >> this out. >> =20 > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Etnus, makers of TotalView, The bes= t > thread debugger on the planet. Designed with thread debugging features > you've never dreamed of, try TotalView 6 free at www.etnus.com. > _______________________________________________ > Webmacro-devel mailing list > Web...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webmacro-devel > |
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From: Lane S. <la...@op...> - 2003-06-07 20:31:52
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First, we need to all agree that we are not going to get all our=20 personal preferences in release 2.0. You just have to get over this and=20 I think we are all there for the most part. 1) Lets agree on a coding standard. Indent=3D4; Block begins on new line=20 (neither are what I use today btw). Whatever. 2) Lets agree on a single month to punch out release 2.0. I propose Aug.=20 That gives us about six weeks to scope the release; discard the flooze=20 ideas; and, individually or in small teams get our agreed-to parts=20 completed and unit-tested. 3) In preparation, let's create a branch, WM-Release-1. This finalizes=20 release 1 and allows some patches to be applied to this branch over the=20 next year in support of release 1 users. Is August out of the question for anyone as a month to punch out release=20 2.0? Please advise. -Lane Marc Palmer wrote: > On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:12:33 +0200 (CEST), Endre St=F8lsvik=20 > <web...@st...> wrote: > =20 > >> What about that Wiki page with "wishlists" for 2.0? USE THIS! > > =20 > I have in the past. I've just updated it too. > =20 > http://www.webmacro.org/NextRelease > =20 > I've also added http://www.webmacro.org/CodeStyle for when we work=20 > this out. > =20 |
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From: Marc P. <ma...@an...> - 2003-06-07 11:16:48
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On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 10:40:21 +0100, Marc Palmer <ma...@an...> wrote: > On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:05:20 -0700, Brian Goetz <br...@qu...> wrote: > >>> I'm cool with whatever. I personally like the dangling brackets to >>> reduce the vertical whitespace, but brackets on a new line *are* >>> clearer. So, whatever, let's just try not to revisit this again next >>> year. >> >> Anyone want to wager on the liklihood of not revisiting it next year? > > Haha, well if we enshrine this in the http://www.webmacro.org/CodeStyle > page there should be little chance of disagreement in future. i.e. > "What's the WM code style?" response, "Look at the page." Argh WTF is going on. That's the second time one of my mails has been munged on this list after I sent it (previous was post about 3 char spacing with example of wrapped line that didn't come out). Opera Mail is screwing with them on the way out - buggy line formatting code :( http://www.webmacro.org/CodeStyle -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer Currently available for hire! http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ http://www.wangjammers.org |
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From: Marc P. <ma...@an...> - 2003-06-07 09:40:53
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On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:05:20 -0700, Brian Goetz <br...@qu...> wrote: >> I'm cool with whatever. I personally like the dangling brackets to >> reduce the vertical whitespace, but brackets on a new line *are* >> clearer. So, whatever, let's just try not to revisit this again next >> year. > > Anyone want to wager on the liklihood of not revisiting it next year? Haha, well if we enshrine this in the http://www.webmacro.org/CodeStyle page there should be little chance of disagreement in future. i.e. "What's the WM code style?" response, "Look at the page." No discussion :) -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer Currently available for hire! http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ http://www.wangjammers.org |
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From: Eric B. R. <eb...@tc...> - 2003-06-06 19:17:31
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Brian is absolutely correct. All of this mess is pure religion. Since I get to rule the world, The Church of Eric hereby decrees that all WebMacro source code must be formatted according the style guidelines set forth by the Apache Jakarta group. See http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/common/code-standards.html for the guidelines. For what it's worth, this is NOT my personal style, so I feel your pain. I'll try to get all the code updated in CVS before we start moving packages around... hopefully Sunday. eric ps, I chose Apache Jakarta thinking that it might encourage Marc to fix that damn logging bug! *grin* On Friday, June 6, 2003, at 02:07 PM, Brian Goetz wrote: >> Another approach is just to say f*ck it. if you don't like the way >> the >> file is formatted, reformat it yourself. IDEA does make it easy. >> Although it does mess with cvs diffs. > > My take on things like lexical elements of coding style, like brace > placement and how many spaces: Coding style is a religious issue. It > will never be decided on the basis of merit, because these things are > fundamentally personal preferences that have to do with subjective > measures like your visual acuity and propensity to eyestrain, the > quality of your short-term memory, the size of your monitor, your > program editor of choice, and other things that are not comparable > across individuals. People will never agree, because we all have > different eyes, monitors, working styles, and preferences. > > Someone in the group should be elected (I vote Eric) to pick a style, > check in an IDEA style sheet, reformat the code ONCE, and be done with > this issue. After that, if you don't like the coding style the > project chooses, just shut up and deal with it. > >>> This is why I proposed that we adopt and -existing- code style >>> somebody else has already argued about. > > An excellent proposal. Eric, pick one. > |
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From: Eric B. R. <eb...@tc...> - 2003-06-06 19:12:25
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On Friday, June 6, 2003, at 02:46 PM, Marc Palmer wrote: >> ps, I chose Apache Jakarta thinking that it might encourage Marc to >> fix that damn logging bug! *grin* > > Er, I fixed it and it's committed. Didn't you see the cvs-commit > message and stuff about my fouled line terminators? Ahh, I see that now. Good job! eric > > Thanks anyway. :) :) > > You can all blame me instead of Eric then. > > If it's any consolation my own style differs from the Sun conventions > too - I am going to have to learn to make some changes in a few > places, but this is a GOOD THING. > > Cheers > > -- > Marc Palmer > Contract Java Consultant/Developer > Currently available for hire! > http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ > http://www.wangjammers.org > |
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