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From: Russ K. <py...@ve...> - 2009-02-13 21:08:39
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Joe wrote: >I've installed InstantPlayer... won't display some of my content, like >that 500x500 km world;) Breaks without explanation. Off the top of my head there maybe a size limit with it. I know there is a size limit with the CreateVRMLFromString call. You could run it by the forum. It's been my experience they are very responsive. >BTW Russ, maybe you know so let me ask:) Ever since IE8 came out, vrml >plugins seem disfunctional...? As a "developer" I guess I should be scolded at the very least for not having IE 8 installed. The reason is I guess I have pretty much given up on vrml plugins. I keep them around to test with on IE 7. The Sun-MSJVM debacle seven years ago should have been the general warning to the VRML/x3d community. I have ranted about this else where (www vrml), so will spare you here :) That's why I am keen on Instant Player -it's standalone (and so is the SecondLife client without a doubt the most successfull 3D MU system to date) Also, FreeWRL just had a new release and John Steward has said there have been a bunch of EAI fixes with it. I haven't had a chance to test it yet on my DM work, but hope to do so this weekend. Finally, there is one major catch to Instant Player. It runs AvatarStudio 2 avs slowly and in some cases crashes with certain gestures. As I am sure you know those avs run well on Contact because of vertexTransform call which Contact implements ( so does Cortona I have recently learned, but you have to add Cortona's name to the Scripts ), otherwise there is a VrmlMatrix work-around which InstantPlayer is forced to use. InstantPlayer does implement some of the Humanoid Animation Nodes though and it is only in Beta after all, so I am sure it will improve there as well. tc Russ Kinter -----Original Message----- From: Josip Almasi [mailto:jo...@vr...] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 7:48 AM To: vrs...@li... Subject: Re: [Vrspace-dev] vrspace news py...@ve... wrote: > If you look in InstantReality's forum for my posts > there are alot of EAI examples for bugs which they > quickly fix, just to give you a quick start and see what it can do. Yep, seems good. I've installed InstantPlayer... won't display some of my content, like that 500x500 km world;) Breaks without explanation. But most works fine. OK I'll examine further. BTW Russ, maybe you know so let me ask:) Ever since IE8 came out, vrml plugins seem disfunctional...? Regards... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Open Source Business Conference (OSBC), March 24-25, 2009, San Francisco, CA -OSBC tackles the biggest issue in open source: Open Sourcing the Enterprise -Strategies to boost innovation and cut costs with open source participation -Receive a $600 discount off the registration fee with the source code: SFAD http://p.sf.net/sfu/XcvMzF8H _______________________________________________ Vrspace-dev mailing list Vrs...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vrspace-dev |
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From: Josip A. <jo...@vr...> - 2009-02-13 12:48:29
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py...@ve... wrote: > If you look in InstantReality's forum for my posts > there are alot of EAI examples for bugs which they > quickly fix, just to give you a quick start and see what it can do. Yep, seems good. I've installed InstantPlayer... won't display some of my content, like that 500x500 km world;) Breaks without explanation. But most works fine. OK I'll examine further. BTW Russ, maybe you know so let me ask:) Ever since IE8 came out, vrml plugins seem disfunctional...? Regards... |
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From: <py...@ve...> - 2009-02-12 09:38:51
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<html><HEAD><LINK media=all href="/webmail/static/deg/css/wysiwyg-3933289048.css" type=text/css rel=stylesheet> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16674" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>If you look in InstantReality's forum for my posts</DIV> <DIV>there are alot of EAI examples for bugs which they </DIV> <DIV>quickly fix, just to give you a quick start and see what it can do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>tc</DIV> <DIV>Russ Kinter<BR><BR><BR>Feb 12, 2009 08:11:12 AM, <A class=parsedEmail href="mailto:vrs...@li..." target=_blank>vrs...@li...</A> wrote:<BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(102,153,204) 3px solid">Russ Kinter wrote:<BR>> Oh YEAH, even bigger gossip,<BR>> InstantPlayer is dating Alice!<BR>> <BR>> <A class=parsedLink href="http://www.instantreality.org/documentation/nodetype/Brain/" target=_blank>http://www.instantreality.org/documentation/nodetype/Brain/</A><BR><BR>Cool:)<BR><BR>> Joe,<BR>> Have you looked at Instant Player's EAI at all?<BR>> My experience has been IP's EAI is very functional -as long as you use the<BR>> daily builds. <BR><BR>Nope, I'm pretty much out of 3D things for a while now.<BR>But I'll have a look at it, thanks for info.<BR><BR>Regards...<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM)<BR>software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to<BR>build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local<BR>resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and<BR>Ajax docs to start building applications today-<A class=parsedLink href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com" target=_blank>http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com</A><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Vrspace-dev mailing list<BR><A class="parsedEmail parsedEmail" href="mailto:Vrs...@li..." target=_blank>Vrs...@li...</A><BR><A class=parsedLink href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vrspace-dev" target=_blank>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vrspace-dev</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></html> |
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From: Josip A. <jo...@vr...> - 2009-02-12 08:11:10
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Russ Kinter wrote: > Oh YEAH, even bigger gossip, > InstantPlayer is dating Alice! > > http://www.instantreality.org/documentation/nodetype/Brain/ Cool:) > Joe, > Have you looked at Instant Player's EAI at all? > My experience has been IP's EAI is very functional -as long as you use the > daily builds. Nope, I'm pretty much out of 3D things for a while now. But I'll have a look at it, thanks for info. Regards... |
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From: Russ K. <py...@ve...> - 2009-02-11 20:21:28
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Oh YEAH, even bigger gossip, InstantPlayer is dating Alice! http://www.instantreality.org/documentation/nodetype/Brain/ tc Russ Kinter -----Original Message----- From: Russ Kinter [mailto:py...@ve...] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:10 PM To: vrs...@li... Subject: Re: [Vrspace-dev] vrspace news Joe, Have you looked at Instant Player's EAI at all? My experience has been IP's EAI is very functional -as long as you use the daily builds. tc Russ Kinter -----Original Message----- From: Josip Almasi [mailto:jo...@vr...] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:45 AM To: vrs...@li... Subject: [Vrspace-dev] vrspace news Hi all, it's been quite a while. There's not much news about VRSpace anyway. I've been coding other stuff, some related with VRSpace but mostly not. Things related to VRSpace are ANN: Joe's Database Console http://sf.net/projects/jdbcon I had enough code to examine and hold database metadata, and I needed decent db con, so I wrote it. While it may not seem related to VRSpace, this database metadata code might be usefull for database visualization. Back in the day when I had large databases, meaning hundereds of tables with millions of records, I found E-R diagrams quite inapropriate. 3D should handle what can't be planar graphs, plus, we could get additional info, i.e. displaying number of rows as table height, and so on. Been playing with it but then I got fired and left the code behind:) Latelly, I'm working with millions of records but just a few tables per database so I don't really need any visualizations. It might happen eventually... JGET I probably don't need to explain wget. So, jget is wget in java. It can do a few things wget can't: - css - wap (and maybe x3d) - and vrml, of course There's a number of things wget does but jget can't, say network timeouts are not implemented - yet. What I really needed was that url rewrite capability; for vrml it means downloading textures and other embeded content. It's still not stripped to a separate project, since it relies on vrspace server code. VFS code to be more specific; I've discovered webdav and apache VFS... none of it included in the server yet, I'm still just examining. Input welcome. Anyway, anyone needs separate jget let me know. That about the code. Oh, I've also managed to compile xj3d on fedora so if anyone needs it, http://www.vrspace.org/~joe/xj3d/Xj3D-linux-howto.html I didn't get much farther than compiling it, I simply don't have time. There's still a few more things about VRSpace. A guy came to forum then we exchanged a few mails. Not easy since he doesn't know english, uses online translators... anyway he was evaluating VR servers around and put VRSpace on 2nd place. Well, silver medal, not bad:) He also reported a bug - avatars walking backwards - but I still didn't get time to look at it. VRSpace IRL, I mean that non-profit NGO of ours, doesn't do well. Last time I bothered to organize convention I couldn't get my exec board to show up. Well maybe we should have voted for new board but I just gave up. Furthermore, I found out that SF donation system does not work when Chris sent donation:) It's not up to them really, it's paypal doesn't work with Croatia. Well I could use my credit card to add some funds to paypal account, but noone else can do it. OK I could understand why they won't pay out any money to Croatia but this is plainly nonsense. So, after 6 months or so I got snail-mailed check from sourceforge:))) Other news, I've been invited to comitee to that conference so now I spam that CFP around;) Good thing or otherwise who knows when I'd write something here. And that's about all for now. Regards... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com _______________________________________________ Vrspace-dev mailing list Vrs...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vrspace-dev ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com _______________________________________________ Vrspace-dev mailing list Vrs...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vrspace-dev |
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From: Russ K. <py...@ve...> - 2009-02-11 20:10:21
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Joe, Have you looked at Instant Player's EAI at all? My experience has been IP's EAI is very functional -as long as you use the daily builds. tc Russ Kinter -----Original Message----- From: Josip Almasi [mailto:jo...@vr...] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:45 AM To: vrs...@li... Subject: [Vrspace-dev] vrspace news Hi all, it's been quite a while. There's not much news about VRSpace anyway. I've been coding other stuff, some related with VRSpace but mostly not. Things related to VRSpace are ANN: Joe's Database Console http://sf.net/projects/jdbcon I had enough code to examine and hold database metadata, and I needed decent db con, so I wrote it. While it may not seem related to VRSpace, this database metadata code might be usefull for database visualization. Back in the day when I had large databases, meaning hundereds of tables with millions of records, I found E-R diagrams quite inapropriate. 3D should handle what can't be planar graphs, plus, we could get additional info, i.e. displaying number of rows as table height, and so on. Been playing with it but then I got fired and left the code behind:) Latelly, I'm working with millions of records but just a few tables per database so I don't really need any visualizations. It might happen eventually... JGET I probably don't need to explain wget. So, jget is wget in java. It can do a few things wget can't: - css - wap (and maybe x3d) - and vrml, of course There's a number of things wget does but jget can't, say network timeouts are not implemented - yet. What I really needed was that url rewrite capability; for vrml it means downloading textures and other embeded content. It's still not stripped to a separate project, since it relies on vrspace server code. VFS code to be more specific; I've discovered webdav and apache VFS... none of it included in the server yet, I'm still just examining. Input welcome. Anyway, anyone needs separate jget let me know. That about the code. Oh, I've also managed to compile xj3d on fedora so if anyone needs it, http://www.vrspace.org/~joe/xj3d/Xj3D-linux-howto.html I didn't get much farther than compiling it, I simply don't have time. There's still a few more things about VRSpace. A guy came to forum then we exchanged a few mails. Not easy since he doesn't know english, uses online translators... anyway he was evaluating VR servers around and put VRSpace on 2nd place. Well, silver medal, not bad:) He also reported a bug - avatars walking backwards - but I still didn't get time to look at it. VRSpace IRL, I mean that non-profit NGO of ours, doesn't do well. Last time I bothered to organize convention I couldn't get my exec board to show up. Well maybe we should have voted for new board but I just gave up. Furthermore, I found out that SF donation system does not work when Chris sent donation:) It's not up to them really, it's paypal doesn't work with Croatia. Well I could use my credit card to add some funds to paypal account, but noone else can do it. OK I could understand why they won't pay out any money to Croatia but this is plainly nonsense. So, after 6 months or so I got snail-mailed check from sourceforge:))) Other news, I've been invited to comitee to that conference so now I spam that CFP around;) Good thing or otherwise who knows when I'd write something here. And that's about all for now. Regards... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com _______________________________________________ Vrspace-dev mailing list Vrs...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vrspace-dev |
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From: Josip A. <jo...@vr...> - 2009-02-11 12:50:52
|
Hi all, it's been quite a while. There's not much news about VRSpace anyway. I've been coding other stuff, some related with VRSpace but mostly not. Things related to VRSpace are ANN: Joe's Database Console http://sf.net/projects/jdbcon I had enough code to examine and hold database metadata, and I needed decent db con, so I wrote it. While it may not seem related to VRSpace, this database metadata code might be usefull for database visualization. Back in the day when I had large databases, meaning hundereds of tables with millions of records, I found E-R diagrams quite inapropriate. 3D should handle what can't be planar graphs, plus, we could get additional info, i.e. displaying number of rows as table height, and so on. Been playing with it but then I got fired and left the code behind:) Latelly, I'm working with millions of records but just a few tables per database so I don't really need any visualizations. It might happen eventually... JGET I probably don't need to explain wget. So, jget is wget in java. It can do a few things wget can't: - css - wap (and maybe x3d) - and vrml, of course There's a number of things wget does but jget can't, say network timeouts are not implemented - yet. What I really needed was that url rewrite capability; for vrml it means downloading textures and other embeded content. It's still not stripped to a separate project, since it relies on vrspace server code. VFS code to be more specific; I've discovered webdav and apache VFS... none of it included in the server yet, I'm still just examining. Input welcome. Anyway, anyone needs separate jget let me know. That about the code. Oh, I've also managed to compile xj3d on fedora so if anyone needs it, http://www.vrspace.org/~joe/xj3d/Xj3D-linux-howto.html I didn't get much farther than compiling it, I simply don't have time. There's still a few more things about VRSpace. A guy came to forum then we exchanged a few mails. Not easy since he doesn't know english, uses online translators... anyway he was evaluating VR servers around and put VRSpace on 2nd place. Well, silver medal, not bad:) He also reported a bug - avatars walking backwards - but I still didn't get time to look at it. VRSpace IRL, I mean that non-profit NGO of ours, doesn't do well. Last time I bothered to organize convention I couldn't get my exec board to show up. Well maybe we should have voted for new board but I just gave up. Furthermore, I found out that SF donation system does not work when Chris sent donation:) It's not up to them really, it's paypal doesn't work with Croatia. Well I could use my credit card to add some funds to paypal account, but noone else can do it. OK I could understand why they won't pay out any money to Croatia but this is plainly nonsense. So, after 6 months or so I got snail-mailed check from sourceforge:))) Other news, I've been invited to comitee to that conference so now I spam that CFP around;) Good thing or otherwise who knows when I'd write something here. And that's about all for now. Regards... |
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From: Josip A. <jo...@vr...> - 2009-02-11 10:37:23
|
-- CALL FOR PAPERS - Deadline for submissions (extension): 27 March 2009 -- IADIS INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON WEB VIRTUAL REALITY AND THREE-DIMENSIONAL WORLDS (WEB3DW) 2009 Algarve, Portugal, 19 to 21 June 2009 (http://www.Web3dw-conf.org) * Conference background and goals To make site architects aware of 3D communication. To allow scientists to undertake experimental and predictive theorems on 3D ambiance. An IADIS meeting for those who want to push the web3D forward and benefit from this! This IADIS conference is meant both for web-site developers, advertisers, usability evaluators and communication architects; you are all actors in the critical stage of adopting 3D "Immersion" or lose your competitive edge. This conference addresses important topics of today like education, health, corporate image and make customers feel at home at your internet site. Virtual reality already proved its superiority in involving the user. Indeed, medical, defense, architecture and even the car industry managed to increase learning effects and sensation. If it comes to addressing a larger WWW-public, still critical mass needs to be reached. You will not miss the next step in VR web integration. Keynote speeches, invited lecturers and workshop leaders will bring you to the best technologies nowadays. The phase of risk and pioneering is left behind. t is just a matter of understanding the problem and its opportunities; many cutting edge companies are now able to provide compact solutions. The only thing you have to decide is: What spatial experience your user needs to have. The important topics of today like education, health and energy all benefit from web3D if present in their content. We want to discuss in Algarve, Portugal how to make the web3D one of the central topics of the web content in the near future. This is clearly inevitable to happen, we just want to push it forward and benefit from that. The conference will help you to avoid obstacles from the past: - Standards to be obeyed - Bridging users' imagination with your product reality - Avoid lengthy navigations in VR - Build upon existing 3D models - Capture both the gaming generation and who still believe in 2D documents - And more to say from your experience The summer conference in Algarve offers you a relaxed period, full of inspiration and innovative plans; All the goodies that might get lost during hectic life. Let us help you to build upon success stories in the recent past. - You are the expert in knowing why new media might not work. - We take the lead to convince yourself why it should work the coming years. There is no way back; the web experiences will change visitors' expectations soon. So let's find together the break-through web3D recipes on the Algarve conference, Portugal 19-21 June 2009! Please look to the total spectrum of thematic strands that you are entitled to join; indeed it is a rich context for all who see the next step. * Format of the Conference The conference will comprise of invited talks and oral presentations. The proceedings of the conference will be published in the form of a book and CD-ROM with ISBN, and will be available also in the IADIS Digital Library (accessible on-line). * Best Papers Selected authors of best papers will be invited to submit extended versions of their papers to selected journals (i.e. IADIS International Journal on Computer Science and Information Systems - ISSN: 1646-3692) including journals from INDERSCIENCE Publishers. * Types of submissions Full and Short Papers, Reflection Papers, Posters/Demonstrations, Tutorials, Panels and Doctoral Consortium. All submissions are subject to a blind refereeing process. * Themes related to educational or edutainment web3D, are of interest. These include, but are not limited to the following areas: - Web3D in education, health and energy - Innovative 3D graphics applications for Web/Multimedia in industry, science, medicine, and education - Geometric Modeling - Methods for modeling and rendering complex geometry, structure and behaviors - Virtual Reality - Graphical User Interface - Human-Computer Interaction - Computer (Educational) Games - User-interface paradigms and interaction methods for real-time 3D graphics and virtual environments - Computer-Aided Design - Computational Geometry - Natural Phenomena Modeling - GPU and Graphics Systems - Data Representation - Data Transformation - Data Modeling - Scientific Visualization - Information Visualization - Visualization Algorithms - Software Visualization - Terrain Visualization - Flow Visualization - Interactive 3D graphics and immersive systems - High-performance 3D graphics - Animated humanoids (avatars) * Important Dates: - Submission Deadline (extension): 27 March 2009 - Notification to Authors (extension): 24 April 2009 - Final Camera-Ready Submission and Early Registration (extension): Until 15 May 2009 - Late Registration (extension): After 15 May 2009 - Conference: Algarve, Portugal, 19 to 21 June 2009 * Conference Location The conference will be held in Algarve, Portugal. * Secretariat IADIS Secretariat - IADIS INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE WEB VIRTUAL REALITY AND THREE-DIMENSIONAL WORLDS (WEB3DW) 2009 Rua Sao Sebastiao da Pedreira, 100, 3 1050-209 Lisbon, Portugal E-mail: sec...@we... Web site: http://www.web3dw-conf.org/ * Program Committee WEB VIRTUAL REALITY AND THREE-DIMENSIONAL WORLDS (WEB3DW) 2009 Program Chair Tomaz Amon, Amnim, Center for Scientific Visualization, Ljubljana, Slovenia General MCCSIS Conference Co-Chairs: Piet Kommers, University of Twente, The Netherlands Pedro Isaías, Universidade Aberta (Portuguese Open University), Portugal Nian-Shing Chen, National Sun Yat-sen University, Taiwan Committee Members: * * for committee list please refer to http://www.web3dw-conf.org/committees.asp |
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From: chris <dra...@gm...> - 2008-05-21 22:49:58
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This is a reminder for those interested in attending/demoing/speaking at the Multiuser Virtual Environments BOF: MUVE MOOT. So far we have 8 presenters: Chris Thorne, PhD Candidate, The University of Western Australia, http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/virtual Tony Parisi, Chief Platform Officer of Vivaty, http://www.vivaty.com/ Michael Wilson, the CEO of There.com, http://www.there.com/ Doug Twilleager from the Wonderland Group, Sun Microsystems, https://lg3d-wonderland.dev.java.net/ Rafhael Cedeno, CTO & Co-Founder, The Multiverse Network, Inc., http://www.multiverse.net/ Associate Professor Don Brutzman, The Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey, CA, http://web.nps.navy.mil/~brutzman/ Peter Schickel, CEO of Bitmanagement, http://www.bitmanagement.com/ possible speakers: Professor Mick Brady, Professor Emeritus, Russell Sage College; currently Live Teams Manager at the Serious Game Design Institute at the Santa Barbara City College; Second Life photographer, blogger, writer and digital artist. ... http://mikimojo.com Multiuser Virtual Environments BOF: MUVE MOOT Location: Los Angeles Convention Center Room(s): 507 Date(s): Wednesday 13 August Reservation Time(s): setup time at 12noon, teardown until 2:45pm Meeting Time(s): 12:30-2:30pm Room Setup: theater style with seating for up to 100. link: http://www.siggraph.org/s2008/attendees/birds/ Meet and discuss Multiuser Virtual Environments (MUVEs) and demonstrate your work. Topics of interest can be application related: such as MUVEs in art, education, entertainment or business, or technical, such as modelling or protocols for MUVEs. Whether your interest is in standards or just playing, whether you are involved in multiuser games, online virtual worlds, collaborative or business applications, please come an share your thoughts and demo your work! The main subject I would like to focus on is the influence of 3D virtual environments on social networking. But it is free format and you can speak on other subjects. Some topics of interest: virtual commerce, gameplay, technologies (grid, protocols and 3D graphics), privacy and protection of virtual property. Anyone who wishes to present or plans to attend please email me (dragonmagi (at ) gmail.com) so I can get some idea of numbers. A possible agenda: 1. Introductions 2. Demos 3. Discussion: 4. The state of the art for MUVEs 5. Impact of MUVE and social networking technologies on each other 6. Virtual commerce 7. Technologies (e.g. grid, protocols and 3D graphics) 8. Standards, Platforms and portability 9. Future directions/Current development plans 10. Announcements About the Organiser: Chris Thorne is a PhD Candidate with over 25 years experience in 3D graphics industry and academia. His PhD research is more about the fundamentals of MUVEs and simulation (ways to improve quality, fidelity, scalability, accuracy) than developing MUVES themselves, although he does have a MUVE in development called The Virtual Universe Project (http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/virtual/). He is interested in the influence of MUVEs and social networking technology on each other. About SIGGRAPH: SIGGRAPH is the worlds largest yearly interactive computer graphics conference. For more information see: http://www.siggraph.org/about -- Australian Ambassador, Association of Virtual Worlds, http://associationofvirtualworlds.ning.com/ It be a great secret: there be greater truth at the centre. |
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From: chris <dra...@gm...> - 2008-03-04 05:44:12
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Hello, for those interested in virtual worlds/applications, a Multiuser Virtual Worlds Meeting (MUVE Moot) is to be held at SIGGRAPH 2008, please see http://www.siggraph.org/s2008/attendees/birds/ Location: Los Angeles Convention Center Room(s): 507 Date(s): Wednesday 13 August Reservation Time(s): setup time at 12noon, teardown until 2:45pm Meeting Time(s): 12:30-2:30pm Room Setup: theater style Meet and discuss Multiuser Virtual Environments (MUVES) and demonstrate your work. Topics of interest can be application related: such as MUVEs in art, education, entertainment or business, or technical, such as modelling or protocols for MUVEs. Whether your interest is in standards or just playing, whether you are involved in multiuser games, online virtual worlds, collaborative or business applications, please come an share your thoughts and demo your work! Anyone who plans to come please email me so I can get some idea of numbers. Please also say if you have something to present and what you would like to see on the agenda for discussion. A possible agenda: 1.Introductions 2.Demos 3.Discussion: 4.Language and protocols 5.Standards 6.Platforms and portability 7.Current development plans 8.Future directions 9.Announcements cheers, chris |
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From: Josip A. <jo...@vr...> - 2008-02-15 18:47:39
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Lars O. Grobe wrote: > > Is there a description anywhere about what you means by server-side > routes? Not at the moment, only in javadoc from cvs, and these are rather bad... > Is it routing events between objects on a server when requested > by a client, to synchronize different sessions? Routing events beween server objects. Much like VRML ROUTE, but on the server side. /fromClassName fromId addRoute fromEvent toClassName toId toEvent Of course, it follows ownership model so you can add routes only to objects owned by you. > But in general, a vrml-browser with SAI would do? There have been some > new developments recently. I would never ask one to start developing > propietary stuff on the net, for sure ;-) Well as Russ said, SAI means trouble:) It might turn out to be yet another EAI... a standard that noone fully implemented:) I mean if only Xj3D implements it, there's no point in using standard. As for javascript SAI, switching from java client to javascript client is... well I can't even estimate what it means since I don't do javascript. Bottom line, without fully implemented and widelly accepted standard, writing client means getting tied to one platform. > Well, I would love to stay with vrml, or better x3d. It is easier to > convince people to install a x3d browser then one for only one site. Well thats true, however, there will be many many vrspace sites around...;) > Is there anything a non-developer can do for the project right now? Sure. At least, testing: click on 'Enter VRSpace' on vrspace.org - it's the latest version available only from cvs. Report bugs, state your wishes, comments, ideas... write down what you learn, contribute docs. Etc etc, depending on your skills and interests. Regards... |
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From: <py...@ve...> - 2008-02-15 01:39:39
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hi Lars, >But in general, a vrml-browser with SAI would do? There have been >some >new developments recently. Unless there is something you are aware of that I am not The only vrml or x3d browser that implements Java SAI in a useable condition is Xj3D. FreeWRL aspires to it, but right now it only has very partial EAI. What might be useful is Windows OctagaPlayer which has JSAI from the VRML spec and a nasty bug when trying to create a Proto instance from String or URL, but I have to hope and assume they will fix that. It also doesn't do JSAI addRoute or deleteRoute. Octaga has just released a Mac version, but with out any JSAI. FluxPlayer seems to have made strides with the javascript version of SAI. tc Russ Kinter From: "Lars O. Grobe" <gr...@gm...> Date: 2008/02/14 Thu AM 05:40:37 CST To: vrs...@li... Subject: Re: [Vrspace-dev] development status? Hi Josip! Thanks for the reply! > I've also added server-side routes and python scripting. Is there a description anywhere about what you means by server-side routes? Is it routing events between objects on a server when requested by a client, to synchronize different sessions? >> I would really like to know if vrspace can be used by more than one or two clients at the moment. > > I'm afraid not. > It's simple - I'm java developer, and I can't afford to learn visual > basic and some proprietary API; OTOH browsers lack java support and > that's about it. But in general, a vrml-browser with SAI would do? There have been some new developments recently. I would never ask one to start developing propietary stuff on the net, for sure ;-) > Another effort is in research phase: python client, aiming for blender > and crystalspace3d. It's got nothing to do with vrml/x3d. Well, I would love to stay with vrml, or better x3d. It is easier to convince people to install a x3d browser then one for only one site. Is there anything a non-developer can do for the project right now? CU Lars. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Vrspace-dev mailing list Vrs...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vrspace-dev |
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From: Lars O. G. <gr...@gm...> - 2008-02-14 11:45:40
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Hi Josip! Thanks for the reply! > I've also added server-side routes and python scripting. Is there a description anywhere about what you means by server-side routes? Is it routing events between objects on a server when requested by a client, to synchronize different sessions? >> I would really like to know if vrspace can be used by more than one or two clients at the moment. > > I'm afraid not. > It's simple - I'm java developer, and I can't afford to learn visual > basic and some proprietary API; OTOH browsers lack java support and > that's about it. But in general, a vrml-browser with SAI would do? There have been some new developments recently. I would never ask one to start developing propietary stuff on the net, for sure ;-) > Another effort is in research phase: python client, aiming for blender > and crystalspace3d. It's got nothing to do with vrml/x3d. Well, I would love to stay with vrml, or better x3d. It is easier to convince people to install a x3d browser then one for only one site. Is there anything a non-developer can do for the project right now? CU Lars. |
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From: Josip A. <jo...@vr...> - 2008-02-14 11:35:47
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Lars Grobe wrote: > Hi vrspace-folks, Hi Lars, > I did not get any mail over this list for half a year now, and I am quite curious if, > and if yes what kind of, development is currently going on. Server-side development. I have significantly improved database support, been refactoring and fixing bugs... in fact I use vrspace server in some commercial projects that have nothing to do with 3D, so I use the server for event distribution and persistence. Thus, these parts were improved. I've also added server-side routes and python scripting. > I was planning to install a small vrspace-site (on a debian etch host) > to try out some of its functionality, but as the download-section at sourceforgs > has not been touched for a while, I decided to find out first if there is a release pending, > some incredible new feature waiting in rev control, > or if just everyone virtualized himeself into the project. I'm the only active developer for a while now. As for the release, well it's about time I freeze the code and release. Release will be another alpha though. > Another question, which I asked already a year ago, is about currently supported browsers. > While my own computer is certainly out of the game anyway (I have OS X 10.3 installed, > and I could not find any useable x3d- or vrml-browser including java support for my system), > I would really like to know if vrspace can be used by more than one or two clients at the moment. I'm afraid not. It's simple - I'm java developer, and I can't afford to learn visual basic and some proprietary API; OTOH browsers lack java support and that's about it. I've been working on Xj3D client but that's on hold, I simply don't have time. Another effort is in research phase: python client, aiming for blender and crystalspace3d. It's got nothing to do with vrml/x3d. > I am sorry for asking these user questions on the dev list, but afaik there is no users' list (yet). Sure, you're welcome to ask here. There's no users ml but there's forum on vrspace.org. Regards... |
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From: Lars G. <gr...@gm...> - 2008-02-12 19:56:03
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Hi vrspace-folks, I did not get any mail over this list for half a year now, and I am quite curious if, and if yes what kind of, development is currently going on. I was planning to install a small vrspace-site (on a debian etch host) to try out some of its functionality, but as the download-section at sourceforgs has not been touched for a while, I decided to find out first if there is a release pending, some incredible new feature waiting in rev control, or if just everyone virtualized himeself into the project. Another question, which I asked already a year ago, is about currently supported browsers. While my own computer is certainly out of the game anyway (I have OS X 10.3 installed, and I could not find any useable x3d- or vrml-browser including java support for my system), I would really like to know if vrspace can be used by more than one or two clients at the moment. I am sorry for asking these user questions on the dev list, but afaik there is no users' list (yet). TIA&CU, Lars. |
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From: chris <dra...@gm...> - 2007-07-10 22:39:10
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On 11/07/07, Josip Almasi <jo...@vr...> wrote: > > Josip Almasi wrote: > > > > Well then stay tuned... > > Now I can confirm there's absolutely no chance that we'll do anything > about it:( ok, np Neither we'll continue AJAX clients anytime soon; all client work is on > hold till further notice. ok too. I'm playing with fastCGI now, chris As for recent work on vrspace, it didn't build on windoze, so I fixed > that (thanks to Daniel and Rick for pointing that out). > There's been more work on vrspace.org server that doesn't involve the > vrspace software. > > And about work in close feature, it seems that I'll have to integrate > jython with vrspace server. A while ago we used to discuss this on this > list, I'll be glad to finally get the chance to do it. > Furthermore, I improved database layer significantly, hope to publish > the code soon. > In fact I use (parts of) vrspace server in proprietary code and then > publish improvements. > > Regards... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > Vrspace-dev mailing list > Vrs...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vrspace-dev > -- http://ping.com.au http://systemic.com.au http://planet-earth.org/Rez/RezIndex.html -- It be a great secret: there be more truth at the centre. |
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From: Josip A. <jo...@vr...> - 2007-07-10 22:36:08
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Josip Almasi wrote: > > Well then stay tuned... Now I can confirm there's absolutely no chance that we'll do anything about it:( Neither we'll continue AJAX clients anytime soon; all client work is on hold till further notice. As for recent work on vrspace, it didn't build on windoze, so I fixed that (thanks to Daniel and Rick for pointing that out). There's been more work on vrspace.org server that doesn't involve the vrspace software. And about work in close feature, it seems that I'll have to integrate jython with vrspace server. A while ago we used to discuss this on this list, I'll be glad to finally get the chance to do it. Furthermore, I improved database layer significantly, hope to publish the code soon. In fact I use (parts of) vrspace server in proprietary code and then publish improvements. Regards... |
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From: Ben A. <ben...@st...> - 2007-06-25 11:34:11
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Hello there I would greatly appreciate a small amount of your time to assist with my doctoral research at The University of Newcastle. The research concerns open source licensing and we're seeking developers working on Java projects. The research is supervised, ethics-approved, anonymous and results will be freely available. Participation will also provide a custom licensing report for your project. To learn more, please visit: http://licensing-research.newcastle.edu.au Thanks for reading this email, and I hope you'll consider participating. Best regards Ben Alex (My apologies for being off-topic; this list will not be emailed again) |
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From: chris <dra...@gm...> - 2007-06-12 00:31:17
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Hi Daniel, I think the ajax approach would be quite a good move, it seems to work well for user interactions - stuff that is not too high frequency and not too high volume. One of the things I did with a similar caching problem is add a dummy parameter to the url which changed each time, like url?whatever&counter=1 and increment it each time. Same thing really as hermetic mentioned. chris On 31/05/07, Daniel Gradecak <da...@gr...> wrote: > Hi guys, > > I am working on removing the applet from VRSpace which will be replaced > by AJAX. Of course this move will help to avoid the need of a JVM > installed on the client side. > I think DWR (http://getahead.org/dwr) can help a lot and I already did a > prototype that is working. > > Anyway I have some problems with caching in VRML. I was using blaxxun on > IE and whenever i change the javascript that should be invoked, the > change was never took in account by the vrml browser. > Then I moved to Firefox and the Cortona vrml browser which appeared to > work in the begining but later I noticed that there are still problems > with the caching. The problem is that I may restart the server several > times and change the javascript but the change is never seen in the vrml > browser. > > I am using DWR on another project > (http://sourceforge.net/projects/svarog/) and it is working perfetcly > well, so I am sure it is even not a web browser problem but a vrml > browser problem. > > I played with caching options in the vrml browsers but it did not help > me at all. > Any experience in there? suggestions? I presume the javascript file "test.js" gets downloaded from a local directory relative to a html / vrml file residing on the server. Once it is downloaded, there is no reason for the browser to not use the cached version. To force an up-to-date one to be used you could use a script which does a createVrmlFromURL and pass it a server side cgi or servlet script that returns a proto containing a string like "Transform { children [ Shape { geometry Box{} } DEF AMAN TouchSensor {} DEF TEST Script { eventIn SFTime aman url "js/test1.js" } ] }" > > Just to clarify ... this is a simple VRML file > > Transform { > children [ > Shape { geometry Box{} } > DEF AMAN TouchSensor {} > DEF TEST Script { > eventIn SFTime aman > url "js/test.js" > } > ] > } > > ROUTE AMAN.touchTime TO TEST.aman > > and this is the test.js file ... > > function initialize() { > print('loaded'); > } > function aman() { > //_execute("UserSession.doTest("+'"aaa"'+");"); > _execute("UserSession.setParam("+'"aaa"'+");"); > } > > function _execute(_js){ > Browser.loadURL("javascript:"+_js, ""); > } > > So, whenever I change the aman function and restart the server clear the > cache ... nothing change. The UserSession stuff are generated by DWR, > and that javascript communicates > with the java code on the server side. That communication works fine, it > is just the cache problem. > > Please help :-) > > I am new in the VRML world ... :-) > > Regards, > Daniel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > Vrspace-dev mailing list > Vrs...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vrspace-dev > -- http://ping.com.au http://systemic.com.au http://planet-earth.org/Rez/RezIndex.html -- It be a great secret: there be more truth at the centre. |
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From: chris <dra...@gm...> - 2007-06-08 13:20:09
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On 08/06/07, Josip Almasi <jo...@vr...> wrote: > > chris wrote: > > > > ok, np, keep up the good work, tho I have been wondering if client side > > java can be replaced by javascript - ajax. > > We're working on it right now. > Short status report is, cortona often hangs windoze (why I'm not > surprised?:)), blaxxun 5.1 works fine with IE, bitmanagement works fine > with both IE and mozilla. > So far we didn't try with free browsers; AFAIK freewrl doesn't meet our > requirements for externprotos yet, and openvrml waits for me to install > fedora... > As for server side, we still didn't define how to expose VRObjects to DWR. > As for client side, there's going to be some vrml scripting required, > AFAIK you did some in planet-earth.org so I'd appreciate tips. Can you > please point to code you use to fetch data from server and add/remove > nodes? what I did was pretty basic, it was a combo of what I was working on and a tip from Paul Aslin to send protos from the server. I describe these in: http://planet-earth.org/sg05/presentation/EfficientHTTP.html http://planet-earth.org/sg05/EvolutionaryAccident.pdf http://planet-earth.org/sg05/sg05EvolutionaryAccident.html basically, I use a combo of loadURL with createVrmlFromURL to send information and request information to/from a server via http. the server returns information in a MFString in the form of a parameter of a proto. I use createVrmlFromSrting to creat the proto and I extract a series of parameters from the MFString. I also did a BS Contact example using a version of hermetic's world: http://www.planet-earth.org/enterBlackBeard.html "chat and ship controls are communicated to the world via the http "PDU" mechanism I have been talking about. Take careful note of the cookie settings text in the bottom frame: cookies must be allowed for this to work. " where you could control things like the sails and cannon from the right hand jsp panel, but somethings it did not always work and you had to change values more than once. Anyway, I just tested it and it was not bringing up the cannon/sail control pannel, not sure why. As for adding/removing nodes, my proximity LOD attempts (mentioned below) had problems with high frequency adding/removing so I think there is not a complete solution using the createfrom string and add/remove children events. There's one big tehnical issue: when a vrml object loads, it starts > loading inlined javascript. If I start sending events before it loads, > it just ingores them. I think browsers should take care of it, but since > they don't, how do I know when javascript loaded? well, just guessing here but maybe you should just not create the problem in the first palce: instead if you load a string and createFromString then send events to it, maybe that will work better? Something that sometimes works sometimes doesn't, I would not advise for > presentation:) I found a similar problem with trying to use a prox sensor to implement a controllable LOD. Adding/removing many LODs quickly caused some events processing to fail in BS Contact. Have not solved that one yet either. And once we solve this, we need to reimplement all the goodies we had > with EAI... yes well if we focus on tasks required for a specific > presentation, say avatar jam, we might produce presentable results. absolutely - I am just doing avatar move/state events in a hopefully simple world. This sort of thing could be done with the http mechanism I describe in my docs above but it does not work 100% reliably and so I am trying to get it working reliably and efficiently using tcp/upd instead, with a better http implementation later too. So maybe we hack something soon, maybe we don't. I just don't know how > much time I'll have for that. > > > August 4-9th > > Well then stay tuned... > > > Isn't paranoia wonderful! > > Yep I just love it;) > > > I have sent ur question to Rita, hopefully it will be sorted out soon. > > Thanks. no worries, chris Regards... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > Vrspace-dev mailing list > Vrs...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vrspace-dev > -- http://ping.com.au http://systemic.com.au http://planet-earth.org/Rez/RezIndex.html -- It be a great secret: there be more truth at the centre. |
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From: Josip A. <jo...@vr...> - 2007-06-08 12:03:36
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chris wrote: > > ok, np, keep up the good work, tho I have been wondering if client side > java can be replaced by javascript - ajax. We're working on it right now. Short status report is, cortona often hangs windoze (why I'm not surprised?:)), blaxxun 5.1 works fine with IE, bitmanagement works fine with both IE and mozilla. So far we didn't try with free browsers; AFAIK freewrl doesn't meet our requirements for externprotos yet, and openvrml waits for me to install fedora... As for server side, we still didn't define how to expose VRObjects to DWR. As for client side, there's going to be some vrml scripting required, AFAIK you did some in planet-earth.org so I'd appreciate tips. Can you please point to code you use to fetch data from server and add/remove nodes? There's one big tehnical issue: when a vrml object loads, it starts loading inlined javascript. If I start sending events before it loads, it just ingores them. I think browsers should take care of it, but since they don't, how do I know when javascript loaded? Something that sometimes works sometimes doesn't, I would not advise for presentation:) And once we solve this, we need to reimplement all the goodies we had with EAI... well if we focus on tasks required for a specific presentation, say avatar jam, we might produce presentable results. So maybe we hack something soon, maybe we don't. I just don't know how much time I'll have for that. > August 4-9th Well then stay tuned... > Isn't paranoia wonderful! Yep I just love it;) > I have sent ur question to Rita, hopefully it will be sorted out soon. Thanks. Regards... |
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From: chris <dra...@gm...> - 2007-06-08 10:54:21
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On 08/06/07, Josip Almasi <jo...@vr...> wrote: > > chris wrote: > > Hi, > > > > As I have said to the vos list, I am running a 2 hr multiuser virtual > > world BOF at siggraph so if you want me to demo vrspace let me know. I > > would want something that would not require old browser versions, old > > java etc if possible because I need to be able to demo other stuff with > > current tech as well. > > I'm afraid current tech isn't compatible with other current tech:) > And I don't really think we'll be able to avoid client-side java till > then, IOW I doubt our new code will be good enough for presentations. ok, np, keep up the good work, tho I have been wondering if client side java can be replaced by javascript - ajax. If you have any video/images you would like shown feel free to pass on. I'd like to show what different groups are doing. When is it anyway? August 4-9th > Of course, it would be even better if one of you > > could be there to demo it. > > Of course:) But my visa application was refused twice, I don't think I > need to apply anymore. I must be a terrorist by now:))) Isn't paranoia wonderful! BTW I still got no response from the consortium WRT membership. IIRC I > sign & send, they sign & send, then I pay and then I'm member right? I don't recall what I went thru - don't remember it being that difficult, but then it was more than 2 weeks ago ... I have sent ur question to Rita, hopefully it will be sorted out soon. chris -- http://ping.com.au http://systemic.com.au http://planet-earth.org/Rez/RezIndex.html -- It be a great secret: there be more truth at the centre. |
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From: Josip A. <jo...@vr...> - 2007-06-08 10:11:34
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chris wrote: > Hi, > > As I have said to the vos list, I am running a 2 hr multiuser virtual > world BOF at siggraph so if you want me to demo vrspace let me know. I > would want something that would not require old browser versions, old > java etc if possible because I need to be able to demo other stuff with > current tech as well. I'm afraid current tech isn't compatible with other current tech:) And I don't really think we'll be able to avoid client-side java till then, IOW I doubt our new code will be good enough for presentations. When is it anyway? > Of course, it would be even better if one of you > could be there to demo it. Of course:) But my visa application was refused twice, I don't think I need to apply anymore. I must be a terrorist by now:))) BTW I still got no response from the consortium WRT membership. IIRC I sign & send, they sign & send, then I pay and then I'm member right? Regards... |
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From: chris <dra...@gm...> - 2007-06-08 03:51:24
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Hi, As I have said to the vos list, I am running a 2 hr multiuser virtual world BOF at siggraph so if you want me to demo vrspace let me know. I would want something that would not require old browser versions, old java etc if possible because I need to be able to demo other stuff with current tech as well. Of course, it would be even better if one of you could be there to demo it. cheers, chris -- http://ping.com.au http://systemic.com.au http://planet-earth.org/Rez/RezIndex.html -- It be a great secret: there be more truth at the centre. |
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From: S.Westphal <sw...@cy...> - 2007-05-31 09:42:50
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Hi Daniel, yup shitty M$ IE does not care much of caching directives and if servers tell of updated documents. To go around it, you might need to add a timestamp parameter to the url, (yoururl/.../?ts=1345392) so from the IE view every request is a virtual another document. Sadly it has also some side effects, you might need to do an apache rewrite as discussed in this thread: http://www.cyworx.com/viewtopic.php?t=104 Another way is to use the blaxxun /no_cache/ directory directive, but this only works for .wrl files (eg add this on end of url: yoururl/.../no_cache/?z=.wrl) CU hermetic_cab On Wed, 30 May 2007, Daniel Gradecak wrote: > Hi guys, > > I am working on removing the applet from VRSpace which will be replaced > by AJAX. Of course this move will help to avoid the need of a JVM > installed on the client side. > I think DWR (http://getahead.org/dwr) can help a lot and I already did a > prototype that is working. > > Anyway I have some problems with caching in VRML. I was using blaxxun on > IE and whenever i change the javascript that should be invoked, the > change was never took in account by the vrml browser. > Then I moved to Firefox and the Cortona vrml browser which appeared to > work in the begining but later I noticed that there are still problems > with the caching. The problem is that I may restart the server several > times and change the javascript but the change is never seen in the vrml > browser. > > I am using DWR on another project > (http://sourceforge.net/projects/svarog/) and it is working perfetcly > well, so I am sure it is even not a web browser problem but a vrml > browser problem. > > I played with caching options in the vrml browsers but it did not help > me at all. > Any experience in there? suggestions? > > Just to clarify ... this is a simple VRML file > > Transform { > children [ > Shape { geometry Box{} } > DEF AMAN TouchSensor {} > DEF TEST Script { > eventIn SFTime aman > url "js/test.js" > } > ] > } > > ROUTE AMAN.touchTime TO TEST.aman > > and this is the test.js file ... > > function initialize() { > print('loaded'); > } > function aman() { > //_execute("UserSession.doTest("+'"aaa"'+");"); > _execute("UserSession.setParam("+'"aaa"'+");"); > } > > function _execute(_js){ > Browser.loadURL("javascript:"+_js, ""); > } > > So, whenever I change the aman function and restart the server clear the > cache ... nothing change. The UserSession stuff are generated by DWR, > and that javascript communicates > with the java code on the server side. That communication works fine, it > is just the cache problem. > > Please help :-) > > I am new in the VRML world ... :-) > > Regards, > Daniel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > Vrspace-dev mailing list > Vrs...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vrspace-dev > |
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