visualpython-users

[Visualpython-users] Experimental clean import capability

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

In the "For developers" section of vpython.org is a zip file
containing experimental code for doing either the convenient "from
visual import *" or a clean "import vpython". Please try this out and
post comments about whether this would meet your needs, or how it
should be changed, or offer a different scheme entirely. Once we reach
agreement, this will become a part of VPython 5.4 for Python 2.7 and
Python 3.1.

I was able to follow the suggestion to put almost everything in the
new vpython folder, so that the visual folder mostly just imports from
the vpython folder. I thought it might be possible, and clean, to put
the two modules inside one folder, but that doesn't work. I'm very
hazy on how the import search works. If you see a way to have one
folder rather than two, please explain.

As far as I can tell from my tests, there is complete backward
compatibility with existing programs.

Bruce Sherwood

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are the installation instructions in the accompanying README file:

1) Before making any changes to your current site-packages, make a copy of

     site-packages/visual

2) Replace site-packages/visual with the visual folder in this package.

3) Add to site-packages the vpython folder in this package.

4) From your saved copy of site-packages/visual, copy into the new
vpython folder

     cvisual.pyd (Windows) or
     cvisual.so (Mac)

5) On Windows, from your saved copy of site-packages/visual, copy the doc and
   examples folders into the new visual folder.

After making these changes, you can still use "from visual import *" if that is
convenient, but if you want to import the visual objects cleanly, import them
from the new vpython module. Here are two simple examples:

import vpython as vp
vp.box(color=vp.color.orange, material=vp.materials.wood)

from vpython import (box, color, materials)
box(color=color.orange, material=materials.wood)

There are new clean modules vpython.controls, vpython.filedialog, and
vpython.graph
that can be used instead of the old modules visual.controls,
visual.filedialog, and
visual.graph. The old modules execute "from visual import *" and are
retained because
some programs expect that behavior when importing one of these modules.

Re: [Visualpython-users] Experimental clean import capability

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

A colleague correctly points out that "vpython" isn't an appropriate
name for the other module, because of confusion with the cover term
(VPython = Visual+Python). A better name might be for example
visual_parts; note that whatever the name is, presumably it will get
imported with a short name (much as the scipy world settled on import
numpy as np). You're invited to suggest a better name.

Bruce Sherwood

On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Bruce Sherwood <bas...@nc...> wrote:
> In the "For developers" section of vpython.org is a zip file
> containing experimental code for doing either the convenient "from
> visual import *" or a clean "import vpython". Please try this out and
> post comments about whether this would meet your needs, or how it
> should be changed, or offer a different scheme entirely. Once we reach
> agreement, this will become a part of VPython 5.4 for Python 2.7 and
> Python 3.1.
>
> I was able to follow the suggestion to put almost everything in the
> new vpython folder, so that the visual folder mostly just imports from
> the vpython folder. I thought it might be possible, and clean, to put
> the two modules inside one folder, but that doesn't work. I'm very
> hazy on how the import search works. If you see a way to have one
> folder rather than two, please explain.
>
> As far as I can tell from my tests, there is complete backward
> compatibility with existing programs.
>
> Bruce Sherwood
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Here are the installation instructions in the accompanying README file:
>
> 1) Before making any changes to your current site-packages, make a copy of
>
>     site-packages/visual
>
> 2) Replace site-packages/visual with the visual folder in this package.
>
> 3) Add to site-packages the vpython folder in this package.
>
> 4) From your saved copy of site-packages/visual, copy into the new
> vpython folder
>
>     cvisual.pyd (Windows) or
>     cvisual.so (Mac)
>
> 5) On Windows, from your saved copy of site-packages/visual, copy the doc and
>   examples folders into the new visual folder.
>
> After making these changes, you can still use "from visual import *" if that is
> convenient, but if you want to import the visual objects cleanly, import them
> from the new vpython module. Here are two simple examples:
>
> import vpython as vp
> vp.box(color=vp.color.orange, material=vp.materials.wood)
>
> from vpython import (box, color, materials)
> box(color=color.orange, material=materials.wood)
>
> There are new clean modules vpython.controls, vpython.filedialog, and
> vpython.graph
> that can be used instead of the old modules visual.controls,
> visual.filedialog, and
> visual.graph. The old modules execute "from visual import *" and are
> retained because
> some programs expect that behavior when importing one of these modules.
>

Re: [Visualpython-users] Experimental clean import capability

[Anton S. <br...@po...>]

On 2010-10-10 12:51, Bruce Sherwood wrote:
> [...]  You're invited to suggest a better name.

I always said VP ought to be named Gilliam.

-- 
Anton Sherwood *\\* www.ogre.nu

Re: [Visualpython-users] Experimental clean import capability

[C A. R. <an...@ex...>]

On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Bruce Sherwood <bas...@nc...> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Bruce Sherwood <bas...@nc...> wrote:
>> In the "For developers" section of vpython.org is a zip file
>> containing experimental code for doing either the convenient "from
>> visual import *" or a clean "import vpython". Please try this out and
>> post comments about whether this would meet your needs, or how it
>> should be changed, or offer a different scheme entirely. Once we reach
>> agreement, this will become a part of VPython 5.4 for Python 2.7 and
>> Python 3.1.

Perfect, will take a look.

>> I was able to follow the suggestion to put almost everything in the
>> new vpython folder, so that the visual folder mostly just imports from
>> the vpython folder. I thought it might be possible, and clean, to put
>> the two modules inside one folder, but that doesn't work. I'm very
>> hazy on how the import search works. If you see a way to have one
>> folder rather than two, please explain.

I personally think two folders/modules is desirable.  The only way I
think there should be one, is if the "visual" namespace can be used
for the pythonic module, and something else (ie. visual.physics, etc.)
used for the wildcard module ;-)

>> As far as I can tell from my tests, there is complete backward
>> compatibility with existing programs.
>>
>> Bruce Sherwood
>
> A colleague correctly points out that "vpython" isn't an appropriate
> name for the other module, because of confusion with the cover term
> (VPython = Visual+Python).

I don't understand what you mean here, what's the issue exactly?

> A better name might be for example
> visual_parts;

This particular name makes the proper module seem more like a second
class citizen.  IMO, the clean module _is_ vpython... the "visual"
module is not.

> note that whatever the name is, presumably it will get
> imported with a short name (much as the scipy world settled on import
> numpy as np). You're invited to suggest a better name.

I might be alone here, but I rarely use a different name for imports,
unless there will be conflict, but i like everything to be explicit...
I don't like to have to look it up when i read the code later.

But if vpython really cannot work, I still like either visualpy,
visuallib, or maybe even pyvisual/visualpy.

C Anthony

Re: [Visualpython-users] Experimental clean import capability

[C A. R. <an...@ex...>]

On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 5:19 PM, C Anthony Risinger <an...@ex...> wrote:
>
> But if vpython really cannot work, I still like either visualpy,

Oops, I meant vispy here :-)

C Anthony

Re: [Visualpython-users] Experimental clean import capability

[Craig S. <cra...@ma...>]

I don't like visual_parts at all. Too long and is unlike just about every other Python module out there. If vpython is off the table, I'd prefer the names in the order of 1) vispy, 2) visualpy, 3) vislib, 4) visuallib, 5) libvis, 6) libvisual.

The other discussions over the weekend seemed to converge to a good solution: a clean implementation in the newly named space, and a visual module that imports from the clean implementation to avoid code duplication. It's unfortunate a visual.py solution can't be made to work, but visual/__init.py__ isn't too bad.

    Craig

On Oct 10, 2010, at 2:51 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:

> A colleague correctly points out that "vpython" isn't an appropriate
> name for the other module, because of confusion with the cover term
> (VPython = Visual+Python). A better name might be for example
> visual_parts; note that whatever the name is, presumably it will get
> imported with a short name (much as the scipy world settled on import
> numpy as np). You're invited to suggest a better name.
> 
> Bruce Sherwood
> 
> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Bruce Sherwood <bas...@nc...> wrote:
>> In the "For developers" section of vpython.org is a zip file
>> containing experimental code for doing either the convenient "from
>> visual import *" or a clean "import vpython". Please try this out and
>> post comments about whether this would meet your needs, or how it
>> should be changed, or offer a different scheme entirely. Once we reach
>> agreement, this will become a part of VPython 5.4 for Python 2.7 and
>> Python 3.1.
>> 
>> I was able to follow the suggestion to put almost everything in the
>> new vpython folder, so that the visual folder mostly just imports from
>> the vpython folder. I thought it might be possible, and clean, to put
>> the two modules inside one folder, but that doesn't work. I'm very
>> hazy on how the import search works. If you see a way to have one
>> folder rather than two, please explain.
>> 
>> As far as I can tell from my tests, there is complete backward
>> compatibility with existing programs.
>> 
>> Bruce Sherwood
>> 
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Here are the installation instructions in the accompanying README file:
>> 
>> 1) Before making any changes to your current site-packages, make a copy of
>> 
>>     site-packages/visual
>> 
>> 2) Replace site-packages/visual with the visual folder in this package.
>> 
>> 3) Add to site-packages the vpython folder in this package.
>> 
>> 4) From your saved copy of site-packages/visual, copy into the new
>> vpython folder
>> 
>>     cvisual.pyd (Windows) or
>>     cvisual.so (Mac)
>> 
>> 5) On Windows, from your saved copy of site-packages/visual, copy the doc and
>>   examples folders into the new visual folder.
>> 
>> After making these changes, you can still use "from visual import *" if that is
>> convenient, but if you want to import the visual objects cleanly, import them
>> from the new vpython module. Here are two simple examples:
>> 
>> import vpython as vp
>> vp.box(color=vp.color.orange, material=vp.materials.wood)
>> 
>> from vpython import (box, color, materials)
>> box(color=color.orange, material=materials.wood)
>> 
>> There are new clean modules vpython.controls, vpython.filedialog, and
>> vpython.graph
>> that can be used instead of the old modules visual.controls,
>> visual.filedialog, and
>> visual.graph. The old modules execute "from visual import *" and are
>> retained because
>> some programs expect that behavior when importing one of these modules.
>> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports
> standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1,  ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 & L3.
> Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
> experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/beautyoftheweb
> _______________________________________________
> Visualpython-users mailing list
> Vis...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users

--
Craig A. Struble, Ph.D. | Marquette University
Associate Professor of Computer Science | 369 Cudahy Hall
(414)288-3783 | (414)288-5472 (fax)
http://www.mscs.mu.edu/~cstruble | cra...@ma...

Re: [Visualpython-users] Experimental clean import capability

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

Suppose the clean folder is named simply vis? There does not seem to
exist a Python module named vis. It's short, which is nice for those
who prefer to use the full name, as in vis.box(), and by its shortness
it has the flavor of "visual but without the extras imported by
visual". It's similar to your first choice but without the py, which
seems a bit superfluous in the Python environment. And on the other
hand, if someone starts a new project dealing with visualization
they're more likely to call it vispy than vis, because of tradition
(scipy, numpy, etc.).

Whaddya think?

I hope that some people other than me actually try out the machinery I
posted and say whether in fact it satisfies their needs.

Bruce Sherwood

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Craig Struble
<cra...@ma...> wrote:
> I don't like visual_parts at all. Too long and is unlike just about every other Python module out there. If vpython is off the table, I'd prefer the names in the order of 1) vispy, 2) visualpy, 3) vislib, 4) visuallib, 5) libvis, 6) libvisual.

Re: [Visualpython-users] Experimental clean import capability

[Craig S. <cra...@ma...>]

I'm fine with that too, and it's even shorter, which I like more. :-)

    Craig

On Oct 11, 2010, at 2:19 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:

> Suppose the clean folder is named simply vis? There does not seem to
> exist a Python module named vis. It's short, which is nice for those
> who prefer to use the full name, as in vis.box(), and by its shortness
> it has the flavor of "visual but without the extras imported by
> visual". It's similar to your first choice but without the py, which
> seems a bit superfluous in the Python environment. And on the other
> hand, if someone starts a new project dealing with visualization
> they're more likely to call it vispy than vis, because of tradition
> (scipy, numpy, etc.).
> 
> Whaddya think?
> 
> I hope that some people other than me actually try out the machinery I
> posted and say whether in fact it satisfies their needs.
> 
> Bruce Sherwood
> 
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Craig Struble
> <cra...@ma...> wrote:
>> I don't like visual_parts at all. Too long and is unlike just about every other Python module out there. If vpython is off the table, I'd prefer the names in the order of 1) vispy, 2) visualpy, 3) vislib, 4) visuallib, 5) libvis, 6) libvisual.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports
> standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1,  ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 & L3.
> Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
> experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/beautyoftheweb
> _______________________________________________
> Visualpython-users mailing list
> Vis...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users

--
Craig A. Struble, Ph.D. | Marquette University
Associate Professor of Computer Science | 369 Cudahy Hall
(414)288-3783 | (414)288-5472 (fax)
http://www.mscs.mu.edu/~cstruble | cra...@ma...

Re: [Visualpython-users] Experimental clean import capability

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

Thanks to some public and private support for the "vis" as the name of
the clean module, I've remade the clean+convenience version to be in
two site-packages folders named visual (convenience, backward
compatibility) and vis (clean, no extra imports). You can get these
materials from the "For developers" section of vpython.org. They
should work with either Python 2.x or Python 3.1.

It is very important to read the README file before installing. In
particular, you need to save a copy of the old visual folder before
installing.

I hope some people will try this out before I'm tempted to post
VPython 5.4 with these new features.

Bruce Sherwood

Re: [Visualpython-users] Experimental clean import capability

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

Correction: This stuff does work with Python 3.1, but I haven't yet
made available the binaries of the C++ component; you have to use the
cvisual file that you already have.

Bruce Sherwood

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Bruce Sherwood <bas...@nc...> wrote:
> Thanks to some public and private support for the "vis" as the name of
> the clean module, I've remade the clean+convenience version to be in
> two site-packages folders named visual (convenience, backward
> compatibility) and vis (clean, no extra imports). You can get these
> materials from the "For developers" section of vpython.org. They
> should work with either Python 2.x or Python 3.1.
>
> It is very important to read the README file before installing. In
> particular, you need to save a copy of the old visual folder before
> installing.
>
> I hope some people will try this out before I'm tempted to post
> VPython 5.4 with these new features.
>
> Bruce Sherwood
>