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From: Arthur <ajs...@op...> - 2005-05-14 11:34:49
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> -----Original Message----- > From: vis...@li... [mailto:visualpython- > use...@li...] On Behalf Of FRANCESCO NOSCHESE > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:11 PM > To: vis...@li... > Subject: [Visualpython-users] High School Network Security > > Hello everyone, > > I am a high school physics teacher who is planning post-AP exam student > projects using VPython. However, my school refuses to allow Python and > VPython to be installed on the school's network because it is open > source. I am frankly flabbergasted by the attitude. Are they aware that their neighbors at a little technology company called IBM would find their attitude laughable? If there are any network security problems related to the install of Python and VPython (and I certainly don't think there are) it is certainly not about it being Open Source. Would they be interested in knowing that the author of Python works in the field of computer security, and that many of the most locked down systems in the world are running Open Source operating systems? I am not an Open Source fundamentalist, by any means. But I am a concerned citizen (and happen to live in your area), and I would love to be involved in a effort to educate your technology folks. Does anyone have any ideas on how to attack this head on. Art > > Here's the reply from the technology coodinator at my school: > > "Our technology team discussed your request to install VPython on the > network/lab at our May 4th meeting and all agreed that it is not good > practice to install open source software on the school computer systems. > We have conferred with LHRIC and a random sampling of other districts and > all agree it is not in the district's best interest to do so, even thought > there is no doubt your intended goal is worthy." > > [LHRIC is a technology-oriented consortium of local school districts > <http://www.lhric.org>] > > Is this really a problem? What are the risks? Is there any way to > prevent student misuse of Python? How can I make a case to allow Python > in school? > > FYI, we have a Novell Zenworks network for XP and Win98 machines. We also > have Citrix in XP. > > Many thanks in advance for all your help. > > Frank Noschese > Physics Teacher > John Jay High School > Cross River, NY > > fno...@kl... > ***************************** > Frank Noschese > Physics Teacher > > John Jay High School > Cross River, NY > > fno...@kl... > voicemail: (914) 763-7384 > ***************************** > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by Oracle Space Sweepstakes > Want to be the first software developer in space? > Enter now for the Oracle Space Sweepstakes! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ids93&alloc_id281&opclick > _______________________________________________ > Visualpython-users mailing list > Vis...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users |
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From: Jon S. <js...@di...> - 2005-05-14 13:44:42
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Show them this article: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5704750.html?tag=nl.e589 Firefox may be one open-source app they actually recognize.... IBM backs Firefox in-house By Martin LaMonica, CNET News.com Published on ZDNet News: May 12, 2005, 9:00 PM PT IBM is encouraging its employees to use Firefox, aiding the open-source Web browser's quest to chip away at Microsoft's Internet Explorer... > FRANCESCO NOSCHESE wrote: > >> Hello everyone, >> >> I am a high school physics teacher who is planning post-AP exam >> student projects using VPython. However, my school refuses to allow >> Python and VPython to be installed on the school's network because it >> is open source. >> >> Here's the reply from the technology coodinator at my school: >> >> "Our technology team discussed your request to install VPython on the >> network/lab at our May 4th meeting and all agreed that it is not good >> practice to install open source software on the school computer >> systems. We have conferred with LHRIC and a random sampling of other >> districts and all agree it is not in the district's best interest to >> do so, even thought there is no doubt your intended goal is worthy." >> > I wonder if there is a commuincation gap. You said "open source". > Perhaps what they *heard* was "freeware". > > Or an understanding gap: open source = freeware. > > If so, one would hope that a delicately worded education would solve > the problem. But we've all run into IT people who enjoy a rather > feudal approach to management. Keep us posted with details. Perhaps > we can help make your argument. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by Oracle Space Sweepstakes > Want to be the first software developer in space? > Enter now for the Oracle Space Sweepstakes! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7393&alloc_id=16281&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Visualpython-users mailing list > Vis...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jon Schull, Ph.D. Associate Professor Information Technology Rochester Institute of Technology 102 Lomb Memorial Drive Rochester, New York 14623 sc...@di... 585-738-6696 |
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From: Arthur <ajs...@op...> - 2005-05-15 21:21:24
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> -----Original Message----- > From: vis...@li... [mailto:visualpython- > use...@li...] On Behalf Of Bruce Sherwood > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 9:50 AM > To: vis...@li... > Subject: Re: [Visualpython-users] High School Network Security > > The comment that they might confuse "open source" with "freeware" seems > a highly likely explanation. I wouldn't let them off the hook that easy. Linux, BSD, Python, VPython could all be considered "freeware", by the simple fact that they are in fact free. It is nonetheless confused (because it is outside of their experience) that ten of thousands of man-hours of effort by folks of unique abilities are available without the need to pay for it. I think that at least some of the people who directed their intellectual energies into these kinds of efforts were motivated at least in part by the hope of creating this kind of confusion. It is a worthy bit of confusion. But comes along the phenomena of unintended consequences: Within the bureaucracy the approval process is attached to the procurement process, so where there is need for procurement there is no possibility for approval. Catch 43. Art |
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From: Ives, T. W. <tho...@hp...> - 2005-05-16 23:44:56
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Francesco, I've been quiet on this list for a while enjoying reading the advancements of Vpython over time and continuing to enjoy its power and simplicity, but I have enjoyed and appreciated it most of all when teaching and so have my students. I occasionally teach an upper level undergraduate engineering course at the local university here in Boise - Control Systems Design. It is a tough course, which is further complicated by the high priced software we use (Matlab and Simulink). Due to being an adjunct, I was late getting a license to use it - no problem. I introduced the students to SciLab (http://scilabsoft.inria.fr/) - free scientific software. They were thrilled. But then, we got to things that were just a little more complicated - how about a non-linear transfer function? Ouch! Even Matlab struggles with that. I introduced them to Python - WOW! And nothing was hidden from them or spoon fed to them. They could see how to easily program it for themselves without compiling and without the hyper-complication of compiled languages. Then, we got into our inverted pendulum project. "Wouldn't you guys like to see how this looks in action?" I ask. "Are you going to have us build it Dr. Ives?" they ask. "No, let's just animate it" I reply, and their eyes look like the eyes of dears in headlights :) "No, really, it is easy with Vpython." Suffice it to say, they have crossed over. They took what I showed them and took it much further. And, those transfer functions? They plotted the Bode plots with Vpython also. We still ended up using Matlab, but when Matlab couldn't handle something easily, we just slid comfortably over to Python and Vpython.=20 I hope this story helps. The university IT guys gladly loaded Python and Vpython on their systems for me, and the students could download it to their personal PC's easily and freely. There is a lot of policy being invented that stands in the way of wisdom nowadays. Today, the student that comes into my modeling and controls classes knowing Python/Vpython is a step ahead. I suspect in the near future that the one coming into my class not knowing the seemingly most popular object oriented scripting language and its powerful modules is going to be behind! Also, the day that my IT guys tell me they cannot make available a software package I deem useful to my students is the day I ask the school to get some new IT guys, or I find a new school. Hope that helps, thom _____ =20 Thom Ives, Ph.D. Hewlett-Packard R&D Engineering Scientist=09 11413 Chinden Blvd MS 303 Boise, ID. 83714 208.396.6880 Phone 208.396.7560 Fax tho...@hp...=20 Home: 5556 N Columbine Pl Boise, ID 83713 208.938.3365 Phone 208.412.3971 Cell 407.210.5514 Fax tw...@ms... _____ =20 =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: vis...@li...=20 > [mailto:vis...@li...] On=20 > Behalf Of FRANCESCO NOSCHESE > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 7:11 PM > To: vis...@li... > Subject: [Visualpython-users] High School Network Security >=20 > Hello everyone, >=20 > I am a high school physics teacher who is planning post-AP=20 > exam student projects using VPython. However, my school=20 > refuses to allow Python and VPython to be installed on the=20 > school's network because it is open source. >=20 > Here's the reply from the technology coodinator at my school: >=20 > "Our technology team discussed your request to install=20 > VPython on the network/lab at our May 4th meeting and all=20 > agreed that it is not good practice to install open source=20 > software on the school computer systems. =20 > We have conferred with LHRIC and a random sampling of other=20 > districts and all agree it is not in the district's best=20 > interest to do so, even thought there is no doubt your=20 > intended goal is worthy." >=20 > [LHRIC is a technology-oriented consortium of local school=20 > districts <http://www.lhric.org>] >=20 > Is this really a problem? What are the risks? Is there any=20 > way to prevent student misuse of Python? How can I make a=20 > case to allow Python in school? >=20 > FYI, we have a Novell Zenworks network for XP and Win98=20 > machines. We also have Citrix in XP. >=20 > Many thanks in advance for all your help. >=20 > Frank Noschese > Physics Teacher > John Jay High School > Cross River, NY >=20 > fno...@kl... > ***************************** > Frank Noschese > Physics Teacher >=20 > John Jay High School > Cross River, NY >=20 > fno...@kl... > voicemail: (914) 763-7384 > ***************************** >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by Oracle Space Sweepstakes=20 > Want to be the first software developer in space? > Enter now for the Oracle Space Sweepstakes! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ids93&alloc_id=16281&op=3Dick > _______________________________________________ > Visualpython-users mailing list > Vis...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users >=20 |
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From: Lee H. <mi...@ho...> - 2005-05-14 12:49:17
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> > I am a high school physics teacher who is planning post-AP exam student > > projects using VPython. However, my school refuses to allow Python and > > VPython to be installed on the school's network because it is open > > source. > >I am frankly flabbergasted by the attitude. > >Does anyone have any ideas on how to attack this head on. > Here is a report on the advantages of using open source software in schools. It was linked today on the K12LTSP mailing list. http://www.becta.org.uk/corporate/publications/documents/BEC5606_Full_report18.pdf I would like to read the report that supports the other view. Can I have a link to that one? _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ |
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From: Anton S. <br...@po...> - 2005-05-14 17:22:09
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Arthur wrote: > Would they be interested in knowing [...] > that many of the most locked down systems in > the world are running Open Source operating systems? Indeed .. A friend of mine used to be phone support for a company that sold a high-security version of Apache, and said its customers included a number of military bases. (The company was bought by Red Hat. I don't know whether it still operates; my friend has moved on.) -- Anton Sherwood, http://www.ogre.nu/ |
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