Re: [Visualpython-users] new files

[Steve S. <st...@sp...>]

Hi Bruce,
On Sunday, March 16, 2003, at 02:08  PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:

> Since we have found that even college students majoring in engineering 
> or
> science sometimes install only Python or only Visual and then wonder 
> why
> nothing works, it does seem like a good idea to make a single installer
> aimed at novices that includes minimal Python plus Visual plus an 
> editor
> (Idle_VPython or ScITE).
>
> There are some political and practical issues.
>
> Would the Python people be uncomfortable/unhappy if we made such a 
> bundled
> thing, containing a stripped-down Python, or even a full Python? Right 
> now
> there isn't even a copy of Python at vpython.org, just a link to a file
> housed at python.org. That link gets you an official Python, complete 
> with
> libraries, etc. (and documentation in the Windows case).

I doubt anybody would mind. Zope (the product that arguable pays the 
bills for much of the python team) itself is distributed in binary form 
(as well as source) that includes a pretty complete binary distribution 
of python for each major platform. In my own Zope work these days I 
always build custom python installations to run Zope. A globally 
installed python is too hard to manage when different pieces of 
software depend on it, but compiled components need to be upgraded with 
python! Sometimes python upgrades break some aspect of some software. 
If you are using a global python (e.g., /usr/local/bin/python) and an 
upgrade to improve thing1 happens to break thing2, then you won't 
discover the problem until you next attempt to run thing2. By then... 
you may have forgotten the upgrade.. etc.

>
> A practical issue is that the download traffic from vpython.org would
> increase significantly due to the much larger installer containing 
> Python.
> This isn't necessarily terrible but I should opt for a higher download 
> limit
> from that site. (Recently traffic has grown to where some increase is 
> going
> to be needed in any case.)

Is the VPython group interested in the possibility of using something 
like sourceforge? The vpython.org site could just be a reference point, 
but most "real" development could happen on sourceforge.net. That gets 
you an instant array of mirrored worldwide servers, plus CVS, plus easy 
developer/documentation management, etc..

I've heard gloom and doom about sourceforge's future, but I've got 
several projects there now, and have been pretty happy with the service 
and functionality of the site. The fact that it's actually *free* is a 
source of astonishment for me.

-steve

>
> It would be important for vpython.org to be very clear in its 
> instructions,
> something along the lines of "If you don't have Python, install this 
> bundle.
> If you already have Python, here's an add-on package."
>
> Bruce Sherwood
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arthur" <ajs...@op...>
> To: "Bruce Sherwood" <bas...@un...>; "vpusers"
> <vis...@li...>
> Cc: "Jonathan Brandmeyer" <jdb...@un...>
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 1:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Visualpython-users] new files
>
>
>>> The new Windows installer puts all the Visual machinery in
>>> PythonXX\Lib\site-packages\visual, including the Visual module, 
>>> demos,
>>> documentation, and IDLE for VPython.
>>>
>>> This Windows installer no longer tampers with PythonXX\Doc. It does
>>> overwrite any existing Numeric module with the latest Numeric 23.0 
>>> (and
>> this
>>> is noted on the Windows download page).
>>
>> All very good news.
>>
>> My issues with the Windows distribution is narrowed to one.  The fact 
>> that
>> anyone with a prior existing Numeric installation will lose it if they
>> choose to uninstall VPython. Not earth-shattering.
>>
>> I am still hoping that if there is a satisfactory "stand-alone" 
>> Windows
>> VPython distribution - which is truly a single download and isolated 
>> from
>> any other Python installation on the machine (along the lines which I 
>> have
>> been pursuing) - there will be more willingness to decouple Numeric 
>> and
>> VPython in a VPython as "extension module" distribution.
>>
>> But I do certainly  appreciate Bruce's willingness to be open-minded 
>> in
>> taking a fresh look at some of these issues.
>>
>> Art
>
>
>
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