RE: [Visualpython-users] VPython idle

[Patrick K. O'B. <po...@or...>]

I think I have a better understanding of where you are coming from, and I
agree that there are two types of users. (I guess I wouldn't have thought
physics students would have that much trouble installing and using software,
but I believe you.) At the same time, I'm still not ready to give in
completely on this issue. Here is why - I think we can find a solution that
satisfies the needs of both users.

To begin with, I think we need to agree to leave the Python default stuff
alone. So Guido gets tools/idle. VPython will need to create its own
directory. Let's say it's called tools/vidle or tools/vpython. Nobody is
ever really going to care and the students don't even need to know that it
got put there. All they need is an icon to click on. So have the installer
create an icon in Start | Programs | Python 2.1 that is labeled ... VPython,
of course.

"Okay, students. Click on Install to install VPython. After that is
finished, go to Start | Programs | Python 2.1 and click on VPython to start
the VPython tool. If you have any interest in learning how to program in
Python, you can select IDLE (Python GUI) to get to the Python interactive
mode. But do so on your own time because it isn't relevant to this class.
For this class we will only be using VPython."

What I have described above is exactly the setup I manually created on my
machine. I am on my third day of teaching my fifth grade daughter how to
program in Python (and having a blast, let me tell you). When we are doing
regular programming I tell her "click on IDLE" and when we are messing
around with VPython I tell her "click on VPython." If she can do it I would
hope your physics students could also. (Or perhaps they shouldn't be
studying physics.)

Your thoughts?

---
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech
"I am, therefore I think."

-----Original Message-----
From: vis...@li...
[mailto:vis...@li...]On Behalf Of Bruce
Sherwood
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:54 PM
To: vis...@li...
Cc: gu...@py...
Subject: RE: [Visualpython-users] VPython idle

There seem to be incompatible needs, which we've run into before in a
slightly different context. As in the previous case, I think what is needed
is simply better documentation and installers on the VPython web site to
explain what's happening, and I'll do that.

There are two types of users of VPython with very different needs and
expectations. One is the relatively expert programmer who comes to Python
from other languages and then after some time comes to VPython. The other
is the student (including in our own physics course) who may never have
written a computer program before and for whom VPython is their first
programming environment.

Such a student needs utterly simple installation procedures and completely
obvious shortcuts to using VPython productively right away. After much
experimentation, we've solved the nontrivial problem of making this work
for such users. This includes keeping students out of the interactive mode,
which can be a good place for experts but is quite inappropriate for
novices.

The sophisticated user needs an explanation that this is what we've done,
and how to get around it (easily), and that's where we've not done an
adequate job. After recovering from a major textbook submission, I'll
improve the web site and installers.

Bruce Sherwood


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