RE: [Visualpython-users] VPython idle

[Patrick K. O'B. <po...@or...>]

Bruce,

This idea of replacing the default IDLE with the one from VPython strikes me
as backwards. And I am baffled by your assertion that the interpretive
environment is not suitable for novices. I would think most people would
install Python first and start working with it. Then they will discover
VPython and install it. I would expect VPython to install itself in its own
directory and leave all the existing Python stuff alone. Even if your
version of IDLE is a huge improvement, that doesn't seem like a good enough
reason to replace the regular IDLE and then leave it up to the user to
figure out how to get the regular IDLE working again.

I can't think of any reason why VPython couldn't just install into its own
folder, such as c:\python21\tools\vidle (on Windows), and add its own
*additional* links to the start menu and desktop. I happen to like both
versions of IDLE and would like to see them play nicely together. Your
approach strikes me as a wee bit adversarial. I'd rather not see it become
the standard for VPython.

I copied Guido in on this message to give both of you the chance to be
involved in this discussion. If either of you think I'm way off base please
feel free to enlighten me. Otherwise, please take this message in the spirit
of helpfulness in which it is given.

---
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech
"I am, therefore I think."

-----Original Message-----
From: vis...@li...
[mailto:vis...@li...]On Behalf Of Bruce
Sherwood
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:16 AM
To: vis...@li...
Subject: [Visualpython-users] VPython idle

--On Tuesday, May 29, 2001 14:29 -0500 "Patrick K. O'Brien"
<po...@or...> wrote:

> Mistakes happen. Thanks for the info. I will reinstall as you suggest. Any
> idea what the future folder name will be so that I can manually set my
> system up in anticipation of the official procedure? I'm assuming python's
> IDLE will continue to go into tools\idle while vpython's version will go
> into, what? Tools\vpython? Tools\vidle?

I don't know what name to give the "official" idle folder. But for the sake
of novice users it is the VPython idle that will go in Tools/idle, so that
all the shortcuts will point to it (experts who want the "official" one can
of course make a shortcut to it).

The VPython idle has a very large number of important enhancements which
are of particular importance to novices but useful for others as well:

Spawns a separate process, so if anything goes wrong during the run, IDLE
stays up.

One-button (F5) user interface much better for rapid edit/run cycle. This
is particularly important for novices, for whom the interpretative
environment is not suitable, but it works very well for experts, too.

Infinite undo.

Automatically saves file at start of run, so very difficult to lose any
work.

Rationalized menus.

Maintains scrolling output window across runs, scrolling forward on each
run, so easy to scroll back to earlier run, which has a header.

For Visual programs it is important that upon reaching the end of the
program the graphics window should NOT go away but be inspectable while
examining code. The VPython Idle and Visual environment conspire to make
this work properly.




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