Re: [Visualpython-users] Let's hash out the documentation for restrictive imports

[Guenter S. <Gue...@ph...>]

Why not choose a new name for the pythonic way of importing visual and 
keep the current visual name for the catch all import that is desired 
for physics students who have don't know python. For example

import vispy as vp

does what python programmers want it to do and

from visual import *

does what it has always done. And of course there is probably a much 
better name than vispy.

Guenter Schneider

-- 
Guenter Schneider
http://www.physics.oregonstate.edu/~schneidg

On 10/07/2010 03:26 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:
> Okay, don't take it from me. See the postings on September 15 by James
> Mueller and Craig Struble who, like me, have extensive experience
> teaching novices to write small Python and/or VPython programs.
>
> If you're not convinced, that's fine, but I will say as clearly as I
> can: The current scheme will not be changed. That is simply not up for
> discussion.
>
> What is up for discussion is how best to accommodate the interests and
> needs of expert programmers, including those who on this mailing list
> have called for some scheme by which they can avoid importing stuff
> they don't want to import. I've offered several ways to address this
> need, and I'm asking for input on which scheme you think is best, on
> how best to document it, and what conventions should be encouraged
> (such as the scipy community settling on "import numpy as np").
>
> Please give me useful feedback on this! Maybe you're offended by the
> current behavior of "from visual import *" (or of "from pylab import
> *"; see http://www.scipy.org/PyLab), in which case you should't use
> it, but please don't waste time trying to convince me why it must be
> abolished, because it will stay.
>
> Bruce Sherwood
>
> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 2:04 PM, C Anthony Risinger<an...@ex...>  wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Bruce Sherwood<bas...@nc...>  wrote:
>>>
>>> For a large group of casual users, and for backward compatibility with
>>> sizable numbers of programs in existence, it is important that "from
>>> visual import *" continue to behave as it has in the past.
>>
>> i know you have stated this a few times, but i'm just not clear to
>> this requirement.  forgive my ignorance, as i'm neither a professor
>> nor a student, only a professional developer, so my viewpoint is
>> likely biased :-)
>>
>> what i don't understand, is how "from visual import *" actually makes
>> anything easier for the student/learner.  when someone (student) does
>> that, they don't even know what they just did, until someone else
>> (professor) tells them "ok, now this line will pull in X, Y, Z and the
>> rest of the alphabet for you to use", what's the difference in simply
>> explaining "ok, now pull/import the things you need; here is an
>> exhaustive list of what you might need".
>>
>> either way the student must be explicitly told what is available.  at
>> least with explicit imports, they know exactly what is available in
>> the current program.  it seems much better in the long run for the
>> personal development of the student to not only show how, but also
>> _why_.
>>
>> but again, i have little experience directing others.
>>
>> C Anthony
>>
>
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