verse-misc — Discuss any aspect of Verse

[Verse-misc] Brand new version

[Eskil S. <es...@ob...>]

Hi everyone!

I just released a new version of verse. But the big thing is that Im
releasing Loq Airou and Nil salentinn as open source too.

Along with this there is a new release of connector that who ever is
trying to write a verse app will find very use full.

Have fun, and i hope i see may of you at the blender conference.

E

[Verse-misc] verse and blender

[Eskil S. <es...@ob...>]

Hi

If there are still people on this list i have a bit of news. As you may
know I have been working with the blender community for a while. I just
made a post on the blender forums about somme of the coming developments
of verse:

http://www.blender.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=746

Cheers

Eskil

[Verse-misc] win32 build - branch-20010824

[Luis F. <si...@es...>]

I am sending this in again, as it seems it didn't reach the list on Saturday
(at least I didn't get it back, nor is it archived).

Cheers,
Luis.

> Hi all,
>
>     A couple of weeks ago I had the chance of meeting Eskil at the Blender
> Conference in Amsterdam after attending his presentation on Next-Gen
> Blender. Where he roughly introduced the audience to the internals of
Verse.
>
>     I became very interested, since I think it has a great potential.
>
>     In about 36h I'll be on my way to ArtFutura in Barcelona, where I'll
> meet a few people that might be interested in Verse as well. My intention
> was to talk to them about it, in a very informal fashion. So I have spent
> the last few days toying around with it and found the win32 build
procedure
> to be a little painful, so I made a few changes.
>
> http://sin.scenesp.org/download.php
>
>     These changes are available on the link above, as a patch and as a
> snapshot of my own tree. No C code has been modified, just the build
> scripts.
>
>     It doesn't build the whole tree, just the VLL SDK, the common lib and
> the server. Which was enough for me to begin adding Verse support to my
> code. If there's any interest I can always complete this work and finish
off
> the build scripts for all samples, tests and plugins.
>
>     I have been working on the branch-20010824 branch, as far as I know
> that's the latest 'stable' code.
>
>     I hope this is of help to somebody. Any feedback will be appreciated.
>
> Cheers,
> Luis.

[Verse-misc] test, please ignore [n/t]

[Luis F. <si...@es...>]

[Verse-misc] win32 build - branch-20010824

[Luis F. <si...@es...>]

Hi all,

    A couple of weeks ago I had the chance of meeting Eskil at the Blender
Conference in Amsterdam after attending his presentation on Next-Gen
Blender. Where he roughly introduced the audience to the internals of Verse.

    I became very interested, since I think it has a great potential.

    In about 36h I'll be on my way to ArtFutura in Barcelona, where I'll
meet a few people that might be interested in Verse as well. My intention
was to talk to them about it, in a very informal fashion. So I have spent
the last few days toying around with it and found the win32 build procedure
to be a little painful, so I made a few changes.

http://sin.scenesp.org/download.php

    These changes are available on the link above, as a patch and as a
snapshot of my own tree. No C code has been modified, just the build
scripts.

    It doesn't build the whole tree, just the VLL SDK, the common lib and
the server. Which was enough for me to begin adding Verse support to my
code. If there's any interest I can always complete this work and finish off
the build scripts for all samples, tests and plugins.

    I have been working on the branch-20010824 branch, as far as I know
that's the latest 'stable' code.

    I hope this is of help to somebody. Any feedback will be appreciated.

Cheers,
Luis.

[Verse-misc] Project(?)

[Henk P. <hp...@dd...>]

I guess it might be time to ask.

I'll buy a new PC within 3 months or so, and install Linux, the good way
this time (aka, all the utils needed to compile Verses CVS tree). Could
also try to get MS V-C++...

And 2 september I start with an IT bachelor-course (plain 'informatics', 3y
bachelor + 2y masters) at the VU (an uni, "Vrije Universiteit"). So it
might be that I can form a group to do some programming on Verse and
related things.

Any ideas?

	Henk Poley <><

[Verse-misc] IM

[Henk P. <hp...@dd...>]

Just thought about a chat system with verse. But ehm, is there a data
type/holder that only get's broadcasted by, but not stored on, the server?

You could get pretty wierd looking things if these messages were sticky...

BTW, 'talk to everybody' should be handled by the server I think,
one-to-one chats might better (or 'also') go via normal IM media (ICQ, MSN,
AIM, Y!). Pretty much like this Adobe VR program (what was it called?).

	Henk Poley <><

Re: [Verse-misc] Verse server/wishlist

[Emil B. <d9...@na...>]

On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Henk Poley wrote:

[kill the annoying spinning line]
> > OK, it's done. :)
> >
> > It's in the branch-20010824 branch in CVS right now. The option ended up
> > being "-quiet", though, since it's a bit shorter, and also because other
> > programs in the Verse suite tend to use a single hyphen even for their
> > longer options. This is not very conformant to general GNU/Unix guide-
> > lines, but... I don't care all that much. I could transplant some option
> > parsing code from another project, but that would be too much like actu-
> > ally working on Verse. So I won't. :)
>
> So this means that the server isn't broken anymore? Or did you only update
> the last 'non broken' version?

First: Um, Henk, I'd appreciate it if you didn't send Verse-related mail
directly to me. Use the mailing list, that's what it's there for. Thanks.

Now, I'm not certain what you mean by "broken", in the context of the
Verse server. Of course it's broken, since it's not complete, far from
tested enough, and so on. But it does compile and run, and as far as I
know, is useful enough for what Eskil does. Not for what he wants to do,
but I doubt it will ever come to that state. :-)

The branch called "branch-20010824" contains an obsolete version of the
transform physics, but at least it works and can express object move-
ment, however crudely and "wrong". So, that's the one I chose to extend,
and also the one I fixed a bug in last week (at Eskil's request). At
least I *hope* I fixed it... Feedback, Eskil?

/Emil

Re: [Verse-misc] Verse server

[Henk P. <hp...@dd...>]

> Van: Eskil Steenberg <es...@in...>
>
> New version of  Loq Airou around the corner, I updated the screen page
> with some eya candy:
> http://www.quelsolaar.com/loqairou/screens.html

Looks great. I guess you have a projector to watch on a big screen? The
idea alone... What about projecting it live in the theater via those 'new'
digital projectors? Whooo...

[No, I don't want to know how expensive a good 3D card for such a
resolution would be]

	Henk Poley <><

Re: [Verse-misc] Verse server/wishlist

[Henk P. <hp...@dd...>]

> Van: Emil Brink <d9...@na...>
> 
> On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Henk Poley wrote:
> 
> > Another thing for my wishlist, a --silent option for the Verse server,
so
> > you can pipe the output into a textfile (for watching the errors)
without
> > having all these:
> >
> > 161635 (0) [0 0] \
> > 162704 (0) [0 0] |
> > 163774 (0) [0 0] /
> > 164915 (0) [0 0] -
> 
> OK, it's done. :)

Thanks :-)

> [...]
> > And a question, why does the server use 4% of CPU on my P100 while idle
> > (fresh start)?
> 
> Good question, in my experience it shouldn't. I'm running an empty
> server now, just to test, and on my K6-233 it's steady at 0.0% CPU
> usage. Weird.

btw, does anybody know a good tool to monitor this usage, the tool I
previously used (ProcExp by Sys-Internals) seems to do some wierd things
with file-streams. At least both my MP3 players get hickups ..ert,
restarts.. when I monitor them.

	Henk Poley <><

[Verse-misc] Verse server

[Eskil S. <es...@in...>]

Hi

>used the QS 'escape-button' F12. Could be that.

No, how you quit QS dosent matter.

>PS: The version of Enough I downloaded (some time ago) can't connect to
the
>server. It apperently uses an older VLL...

I will uppdate the QS sourbase some day I just need to get Loq Airou
ready for
Siggraph for now.

New version of  Loq Airou around the corner, I updated the screen page
with
some eya candy:
http://www.quelsolaar.com/loqairou/screens.html

E

Re: [Verse-misc] Verse server/wishlist

[Emil B. <d9...@na...>]

On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Henk Poley wrote:

> Another thing for my wishlist, a --silent option for the Verse server, so
> you can pipe the output into a textfile (for watching the errors) without
> having all these:
>
> 161635 (0) [0 0] \
> 162704 (0) [0 0] |
> 163774 (0) [0 0] /
> 164915 (0) [0 0] -

OK, it's done. :)

It's in the branch-20010824 branch in CVS right now. The option ended up
being "-quiet", though, since it's a bit shorter, and also because other
programs in the Verse suite tend to use a single hyphen even for their
longer options. This is not very conformant to general GNU/Unix guide-
lines, but... I don't care all that much. I could transplant some option
parsing code from another project, but that would be too much like actu-
ally working on Verse. So I won't. :)

[crash]
> I have connected to it with a couple utils (render, adamant, editor) and
> Quel Solaar, which didn't gave anything like an error. I couldn't find the
> exit widget, used the QS 'escape-button' F12. Could be that. There was
> nothing loaded via loader, I did only create some nodes via the utils.

I don't think the way in which you quit QS affects the server. I could
be wrong, though, the details are no longer all that fresh in my mind.

[...]
> And a question, why does the server use 4% of CPU on my P100 while idle
> (fresh start)?

Good question, in my experience it shouldn't. I'm running an empty
server now, just to test, and on my K6-233 it's steady at 0.0% CPU
usage. Weird.

Regards,

/Emil

[Verse-misc] Verse server/wishlist

[Henk P. <hp...@dd...>]

Another thing for my wishlist, a --silent option for the Verse server, so
you can pipe the output into a textfile (for watching the errors) without
having all these:

161635 (0) [0 0] \
162704 (0) [0 0] |
163774 (0) [0 0] /
164915 (0) [0 0] -

I've collected almost everything on internet related to Verse and I'm now
bundeling it together. Hope to be able compress it enough to upload it via
my slow connection.

btw, just had a server crash 'experience'. It's kinda wierd since I didn't
do anything special with it. So I just tried to see if everything works. It
could be that it crashed because the 'pipe was full'. DOS has some kind of
64k file limit, and the output-piped file seems to have flushed and started
over before the server stopped responding.

I have connected to it with a couple utils (render, adamant, editor) and
Quel Solaar, which didn't gave anything like an error. I couldn't find the
exit widget, used the QS 'escape-button' F12. Could be that. There was
nothing loaded via loader, I did only create some nodes via the utils.

Anyways, it seemed to be crashed when I came back after half an hour. The
stdout-pipe didn't update anymore (didn't pipe stderr...), and trying to
connect to it with any of the programs gave back an error from that
program. After three attempts the server-proces itself crashed (windows
error popup).

And a question, why does the server use 4% of CPU on my P100 while idle
(fresh start)?

	Henk Poley <><


PS: The version of Enough I downloaded (some time ago) can't connect to the
server. It apperently uses an older VLL...

[Verse-misc] C virtual machine client

[Henk P. <hp...@dd...>]

Seen some code for the C virtual machine client which. In most of them you
state that the callbacks get called after the main() has exited, and that
it's a wierd problem.

But isn't it just that simple that it doesn't work together with your
threads system? The virtual machine will only interpret (sources get
compiled to bytecode isn't it?) one routine (or better: thread) at a time.
So just letting the C virtual machine client connect via the non-threaded
(use-threads is false) model and letting the code call
vll_callback_service() and  vll_callback_update()?

	Henk Poley <><

[Verse-misc] starting Verse-server as 'service' [windows]

[Henk P. <hp...@dd...>]

There were some people who wanted to start the server as a service (so you
won't see it running). I've investigated the problem a little, and this
might be your answer

http://www.savardsoftware.com/hidden/index.asp

usage:

hidden[.exe] server[.exe]

Re: [Verse-misc] Ehm? Hello?

[Eskil S. <es...@in...>]

> > First of all it means that Power PC doesn't suck even at half the
> > Mhz of the Athlon, but we already knew that.
>
> Well, we knew it, but didn't think it should be faster. What compilers
> are yyou using? MS VC++ on Windows, and gcc under Mac OS X? Are you
> running the debug or release build on Windows? Any optimization under
> Mac OS X?

None of them running in debug mode, both with full optimization.

> > Radion is faster then Gforce (i have tried on 2 Gforce machine and 3
> > ATI machines and the performance is always better on the ATI
> > systems) This is kind of strange since Gforce should be slightly
> > faster although Radion has a more consistent performance. Especially
> > strange since I wrote the engine after Nvidias performance Guide
> > lines.
>
> Yeah, that's kinda weird too, but I'm a bit out of the loop on graphics
> boards now. ATi's R300 sounds promising, though. If it's good enough for
> Carmack... :D

If ATI can get their drivers in the know, they will eventually take Nvidia.
(also
remember that Nvidia makes the Media chip set in X-Box, while ATI makes
"Flipper", the media chip in Game Cube. And the Game Cube has sold a lot
better then X-box si i think ATI will get some financial power to strike out
Nvidia, But also look out for 3DLabs, Martrox,  Kryo and Sony who may
one day show up with great products (3DLabs will most likely have the first
OpenGL 2.0 card))

E

Re: [Verse-misc] Ehm? Hello?

[Emil B. <d9...@na...>]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Eskil Steenberg wrote:

> > > Just so you know The Mac version is out of Loq Airou. It is actiualy
> > > faster on my G4ti then on my stationary 1.2 Athlon.
> >
> > Huh? Sounds very weird. Do you mean overall rendering performance, or
> > just some part of it, like the subdivision? Or is the Radeon that much
> > better than your GeForce board?
>
> First of all it means that Power PC doesn't suck even at half the
> Mhz of the Athlon, but we already knew that.

Well, we knew it, but didn't think it should be faster. What compilers
are yyou using? MS VC++ on Windows, and gcc under Mac OS X? Are you
running the debug or release build on Windows? Any optimization under
Mac OS X?

> Radion is faster then Gforce (i have tried on 2 Gforce machine and 3
> ATI machines and the performance is always better on the ATI
> systems) This is kind of strange since Gforce should be slightly
> faster although Radion has a more consistent performance. Especially
> strange since I wrote the engine after Nvidias performance Guide
> lines.

Yeah, that's kinda weird too, but I'm a bit out of the loop on graphics
boards now. ATi's R300 sounds promising, though. If it's good enough for
Carmack... :D

/Emil

Re: [Verse-misc] Ehm? Hello?

[Eskil S. <es...@in...>]

> > Just so you know The Mac version is out of Loq Airou. It is actiualy
> > faster on my G4ti then on my stationary 1.2 Athlon.
>
> Huh? Sounds very weird. Do you mean overall rendering performance, or
> just some part of it, like the subdivision? Or is the Radeon that much
> better than your GeForce board?

First of all it means that Power PC doesn't suck even at half the Mhz of
the
Athlon, but we already knew that. Radion is faster then Gforce (i have
tried
on 2 Gforce machine and 3 ATI machines and the performance is always
better
on the ATI systems) This is kind of strange since Gforce should be
slightly
faster although Radion has a more consistent performance. Especially
strange
since I wrote the engine after Nvidias performance Guide lines.

I should take a look at it but why really bother now when OpenGL will be
out
this fall?

It also kind of sucks when i run G-force2 at home although i own a Radrion

that I have lended out to a friend.

E

Re: [Verse-misc] Ehm? Hello?

[Calle T. <cal...@gm...>]

Henk Poley wrote:
> 
> Anybody there?
> 
>         Henk Poley <><

pong

-- 
Carl Johann Treudler
Bremen Germany

Re: [Verse-misc] Ehm? Hello?

[Emil B. <d9...@na...>]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Eskil Steenberg wrote:

> Stefan Andersen wrote:
>
> > Henk Poley skrev:
> > > Anybody there?
> > >
> > >       Henk Poley <><
> >
> > I don't know :)
>
> Me too!

#include <aol-reply.h>

Not that it means much, though. Consider me a passive listener, or
something.

> Just so you know The Mac version is out of Loq Airou. It is actiualy
> faster on my G4ti then on my stationary 1.2 Athlon.

Huh? Sounds very weird. Do you mean overall rendering performance, or
just some part of it, like the subdivision? Or is the Radeon that much
better than your GeForce board?

/Emil

Re: [Verse-misc] Ehm? Hello?

[Eskil S. <es...@in...>]

Stefan Andersen wrote:

> Henk Poley skrev:
> > Anybody there?
> >
> >       Henk Poley <><
>
> I don't know :)

Me too!

Just so you know The Mac version is out of Loq Airou.
It is actiualy faster on my G4ti then on my stationary
1.2 Athlon.

E

Re: [Verse-misc] Ehm? Hello?

[Stefan A. <zi...@zi...>]

Henk Poley skrev:
> Anybody there?
>
> 	Henk Poley <><

I don't know :)

-- 
Stefan "Zingo" Andersen   (zingo.org and vectrace.com)

[Verse-misc] Ehm? Hello?

[Henk P. <hp...@dd...>]

Anybody there?

	Henk Poley <><

[Verse-misc] Loq Airou Frasse 3

[Eskil S. <es...@in...>]

I just got a new version out of Loq Airou,
It has a bunch of new featiures.

E

Re: [Verse-misc] testing the list and a verse server --

[Henk P. <hp...@dd...>]

> Van: Gerall Kahla <ge...@ch...>
> 
> When I get more information, I'll post it here.  In the meantime, best
> regards -- and let me know what projects you're using Verse for.  I'm
> interested in hearing about them.

Anything found already?

A new thing to my wishlist:
 - servlet to copy (?non-avatar?) nodes to other servers

	Henk Poley <><