A few of my old batch files were bombing-out under vdos, and I just found out why: vdos does not like the SORT command. Is there some way to make the dos SORT command work?
Also, unrelated, but are there any plans to make vdos run in a full screen window? I still use win xp for most of my work because it is the last win os that allows full-screen dos.
Thanks!
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Thanks for the reply. You're right! It is an external program, and I did not have the location of it in my path. However, after correcting this, it still does not work under vdos. What happens when I invoke SORT is that it opens a new dos window (native dos, I guess), which doesn't actually do anything until I control-c out if it. It does not actually do any sorting. Strange. I guess maybe I should look for an alternative sorting program, if I want to sort under vdos, because vdos does not like sort.exe. Unless you have another suggestion.
As for windows: Yes, I tried WINDOW=100. This does not result in a full-screen window. Also, I use alt+enter all the time, to switch back and forth. I do not understand why dos sessions seem uniquely restricted to these small windows -- much smaller than my screen. All other programs are resizeable at will, including to full-size. The only solution so far is to go back to win xp, which I still use because as I said it is the last os that allows full-screen dos. WHY this is so, I will perhaps never know.
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Something in your system is preventing WINDOW=100 from working. You may need to use MSCONFIG and disable all your startup programs; then reboot to see if WINDOW=100 works correctly. If it does, then restore each of your startup programs one by one until you find the one that prevents it from working. (Your message isn't clear about whether Alt-Enter works or not to switch to a full-screen window.)
Also, you may have two WINDOW= lines in config.txt. If so, remove one of them.
As for SORT, I'll leave that to Jos to answer, but my guess is that, yes, as you said, you will need to find a 16-bit SORT program (possibly one that came with MS-DOS) and use that instead of the one in Windows. But that's just a guess.
And to repeat Jos's question: why run a batch file in vDos when you can run them in Windows?
Last edit: Edward Mendelson 2017-05-19
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Edward: thanks for your reply. I used msconfig and disabled all startup programs; no difference. My vdos still does not run full-screen. It runs in boxes with 2-3" on either side, left and right, on my monitor, and an inch or two at bottom. As for alt-enter: I use it to toggle back and forth because it gives me a slightly bigger box to work with (the "non-vdos" box is slightly bigger, but only slightly, like 1 inch). It does not give me FULL screen, just slightly bigger. For full screen, I have to move to my other machine, running XP and regular old dos.
I checked to be sure my config.sys did not have two window= lines; it does not.
Why run a bat file in vdos when you can run them in windows? I don't understand the question. I've never run a bat file in windows. I think of bat files as a dos thing that you run from the command line. Maybe I'm retarded. :-(
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Sort:
Still unclear to me why you would use an utility like SORT in vDos. I guess you are using a Windows CLI version (not DOS) and redirect STDIN.
So a Windows command line window (there’s no DOS window in Windows) is created to accommodate SORT.EXE to run in.
If you redirect STDIN in vDos, that will only work for DOS programs running in vDos. The STDIN of SORT is that of the Windows command line instance, that isn’t redirected, and no input file will be given, so SORT will wait for keyboard input.
Full-screen:
vDos will create a black frameless full-screen window. Then it has of course to display the content of the DOS screen. Mostly that will be 80x25 character cells, the dimension of each being 1:2 (8 pixels wide, 16 high, and so on). I also guess you don’t have a HD screen (1920x1080) but a lower resolution, let’s assume 1440x1050. That gives 1440/80 = 18 pixels horizontal, and 2x18 = 36 pixels vertical per character cell. 25x36 pixels resolves to 900 pixels vertically. So there will remain a black bar at the top and bottom of 75 pixels each.
You can hardly expect of a Windows program (including NTVDM or vDos) to mess with the screen dimensions set by Windows!
Windows XP allowed that (temporary) for NTVDM, but DOS full-screen has little importance to newer Windows versions. And, as important, modern (non-CRT) monitors only have ONE resolution. All other (lower) resolutions are just emulated by the monitor by stretching the image (scaling by occasionally displaying extra pixels). Resulting in a somewhat fuzzy display.
If you want a real full-screen vDos, you need to select a monitor with the right dimensions. For instance 1280x800 -> 16x32 ->(80x16)x(25x32) -> 1280x800. Or of course set your monitor to such a resolution in Windows.
Jos
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Jos: thanks again for your very sophisticated replies. This latest one goes over my head.
You write: "unclear to me why you would use an utility like SORT in vDos". I don't understand, except to say that you wonder, perhaps, why I would ever want to SORT things at all? I often have text files with stuff that I want to sort, often on a given column. The old dos sort command has allowed me to do that for many years. It works flawlessly. I think the solution to this is to look for and find a sort program that works under vdos; I'm sure I can find one.
I tried fooling with resolution settings, but while this allows my dos to run in bigger (almost full screen) boxes, it mangles the windows display rather terribly, making my browser unusable. I'm using an Acer H233H screen with recommended setting of 1920x1080.
You write: "Windows XP allowed that (temporary) for NTVDM, but DOS full-screen has little importance to newer Windows versions." Well, there it is! XP was the last win os that allowed full screen dos. I'm looking in to the idea of installing windows XP mode (for win 7), OR maybe vmware. Maybe I can solve my problem by running XP on a virtual PC, alongside more recent win os. It is amazing to me that an ancient os like XP is so dramatically better than all the newer os's in this respect. It works great!
Thanks for your very knowledgable replies!
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And I apologize for misunderstanding the original question about a full-screen window. I didn't realize that you wanted the text to go to all margins of the screen. Apologies for wasting time and bandwidth.
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What I don't understand is this: When you say you can't run vDos full-screen do you mean (1) or (2):
(1) With WINDOW=100 or Alt-Enter, vDos appears in a window with the usual Windows desktop visible around it? or:
(2) With WINDOW=100 or Alt-Enter, your entire screen is black, but the text displayed by vDos is surrounded by a black outline on all sides - and the Windows desktop, tastkbar, etc. are NOT visible AT ALL?
If you mean (1) then something is wrong with your Windows system.
If you mean (2), then see Jos's answer above. vDos will never and can never work exactly the same way as the "DOS window" in Windows XP. You can experiment with LINS= and COLS= settings to get text to fill MOST of the screen, but you will have to experiment for yourself. It is physically impossible to make vDos or any other program give you the same full-screen view that you got in XP.
As for batch files, yes Windows runs batch files. Just double-click on the batch file, or launch it from the Windows command prompt by navigating to the folder with the batch file, then typing <filename>,BAT and then pressing Enter.</filename>
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The question is not "why would you want to use Sort?" but "why would you want to use vDos to run Sort when it runs perfectly well at the Windows command prompt?"
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It has been said before: A 16-bit DOS program doing a CPU intensive task (like sorting) will run in vDos much slower than in NTVDM (XP). However, running that same task by a 32-bit (Windows) program is a complete different ballgame. The CPU not only executes faster, the program can do the sorting in Windows gigabyte memory. It is a jaguar compared to a 16-bit DOS turtle. Just grab a 32-bit sorting utility from the Internet.
“Well, there it is!”. Not really, your Windows XP probably has some old monitor with the right dimensions. Just connect your HD monitor to it, and see what Windows XP (NTVDM) full-screen will bring. It will be as “nice” as playing with the screen settings of your new machine.
The old ray tube televisions were once replaced by widescreen LCD’s. For some time you still got much old 4:3 content. You could play with the TV settings, but all you got were unrealistic widen faces, bars on the sides, or something in between. Essentially you now face the same with your new monitor.
Windows XP mode, nor any other virtual XP machine, can physically transform your 16:9 HD monitor to a 4:3 one. Though you’ll have to try, to get convinced the results will even be worse than with vDos.
Jos
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I have been using DOS SORT for 25 years in my BAT files to PARSE and SORT groups of files.
It works in fine in DOS 6.2 , Win 98 and Win 2000. Does not work in DOSBOX or VDOSplus
without it I will need to keep a Win 2000 computer. Have not been able to get it to work in
Win 10 x32
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“SORT” is an external program. Why would you use DOS SORT.EXE in any non-DOS based Windows version as they have their own SORT programs? And what SORT.EXE does not work in DOSBox. For vDosPlus you’ll have to consult the vDosPlus forum.
Jos
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A few of my old batch files were bombing-out under vdos, and I just found out why: vdos does not like the SORT command. Is there some way to make the dos SORT command work?
Also, unrelated, but are there any plans to make vdos run in a full screen window? I still use win xp for most of my work because it is the last win os that allows full-screen dos.
Thanks!
There is no SORT command in DOS, it is an external program. Though why run batch files in vDos instead of Windows?
Have you tried WINDOW=100 as mentioned in config.txt, or Alt+Enter?
Jos
Thanks for the reply. You're right! It is an external program, and I did not have the location of it in my path. However, after correcting this, it still does not work under vdos. What happens when I invoke SORT is that it opens a new dos window (native dos, I guess), which doesn't actually do anything until I control-c out if it. It does not actually do any sorting. Strange. I guess maybe I should look for an alternative sorting program, if I want to sort under vdos, because vdos does not like sort.exe. Unless you have another suggestion.
As for windows: Yes, I tried WINDOW=100. This does not result in a full-screen window. Also, I use alt+enter all the time, to switch back and forth. I do not understand why dos sessions seem uniquely restricted to these small windows -- much smaller than my screen. All other programs are resizeable at will, including to full-size. The only solution so far is to go back to win xp, which I still use because as I said it is the last os that allows full-screen dos. WHY this is so, I will perhaps never know.
Something in your system is preventing WINDOW=100 from working. You may need to use MSCONFIG and disable all your startup programs; then reboot to see if WINDOW=100 works correctly. If it does, then restore each of your startup programs one by one until you find the one that prevents it from working. (Your message isn't clear about whether Alt-Enter works or not to switch to a full-screen window.)
Also, you may have two WINDOW= lines in config.txt. If so, remove one of them.
As for SORT, I'll leave that to Jos to answer, but my guess is that, yes, as you said, you will need to find a 16-bit SORT program (possibly one that came with MS-DOS) and use that instead of the one in Windows. But that's just a guess.
And to repeat Jos's question: why run a batch file in vDos when you can run them in Windows?
Last edit: Edward Mendelson 2017-05-19
Edward: thanks for your reply. I used msconfig and disabled all startup programs; no difference. My vdos still does not run full-screen. It runs in boxes with 2-3" on either side, left and right, on my monitor, and an inch or two at bottom. As for alt-enter: I use it to toggle back and forth because it gives me a slightly bigger box to work with (the "non-vdos" box is slightly bigger, but only slightly, like 1 inch). It does not give me FULL screen, just slightly bigger. For full screen, I have to move to my other machine, running XP and regular old dos.
I checked to be sure my config.sys did not have two window= lines; it does not.
Why run a bat file in vdos when you can run them in windows? I don't understand the question. I've never run a bat file in windows. I think of bat files as a dos thing that you run from the command line. Maybe I'm retarded. :-(
Sort:
Still unclear to me why you would use an utility like SORT in vDos. I guess you are using a Windows CLI version (not DOS) and redirect STDIN.
So a Windows command line window (there’s no DOS window in Windows) is created to accommodate SORT.EXE to run in.
If you redirect STDIN in vDos, that will only work for DOS programs running in vDos. The STDIN of SORT is that of the Windows command line instance, that isn’t redirected, and no input file will be given, so SORT will wait for keyboard input.
Full-screen:
vDos will create a black frameless full-screen window. Then it has of course to display the content of the DOS screen. Mostly that will be 80x25 character cells, the dimension of each being 1:2 (8 pixels wide, 16 high, and so on). I also guess you don’t have a HD screen (1920x1080) but a lower resolution, let’s assume 1440x1050. That gives 1440/80 = 18 pixels horizontal, and 2x18 = 36 pixels vertical per character cell. 25x36 pixels resolves to 900 pixels vertically. So there will remain a black bar at the top and bottom of 75 pixels each.
You can hardly expect of a Windows program (including NTVDM or vDos) to mess with the screen dimensions set by Windows!
Windows XP allowed that (temporary) for NTVDM, but DOS full-screen has little importance to newer Windows versions. And, as important, modern (non-CRT) monitors only have ONE resolution. All other (lower) resolutions are just emulated by the monitor by stretching the image (scaling by occasionally displaying extra pixels). Resulting in a somewhat fuzzy display.
If you want a real full-screen vDos, you need to select a monitor with the right dimensions. For instance 1280x800 -> 16x32 ->(80x16)x(25x32) -> 1280x800. Or of course set your monitor to such a resolution in Windows.
Jos
Jos: thanks again for your very sophisticated replies. This latest one goes over my head.
You write: "unclear to me why you would use an utility like SORT in vDos". I don't understand, except to say that you wonder, perhaps, why I would ever want to SORT things at all? I often have text files with stuff that I want to sort, often on a given column. The old dos sort command has allowed me to do that for many years. It works flawlessly. I think the solution to this is to look for and find a sort program that works under vdos; I'm sure I can find one.
I tried fooling with resolution settings, but while this allows my dos to run in bigger (almost full screen) boxes, it mangles the windows display rather terribly, making my browser unusable. I'm using an Acer H233H screen with recommended setting of 1920x1080.
You write: "Windows XP allowed that (temporary) for NTVDM, but DOS full-screen has little importance to newer Windows versions." Well, there it is! XP was the last win os that allowed full screen dos. I'm looking in to the idea of installing windows XP mode (for win 7), OR maybe vmware. Maybe I can solve my problem by running XP on a virtual PC, alongside more recent win os. It is amazing to me that an ancient os like XP is so dramatically better than all the newer os's in this respect. It works great!
Thanks for your very knowledgable replies!
And I apologize for misunderstanding the original question about a full-screen window. I didn't realize that you wanted the text to go to all margins of the screen. Apologies for wasting time and bandwidth.
What I don't understand is this: When you say you can't run vDos full-screen do you mean (1) or (2):
(1) With WINDOW=100 or Alt-Enter, vDos appears in a window with the usual Windows desktop visible around it? or:
(2) With WINDOW=100 or Alt-Enter, your entire screen is black, but the text displayed by vDos is surrounded by a black outline on all sides - and the Windows desktop, tastkbar, etc. are NOT visible AT ALL?
If you mean (1) then something is wrong with your Windows system.
If you mean (2), then see Jos's answer above. vDos will never and can never work exactly the same way as the "DOS window" in Windows XP. You can experiment with LINS= and COLS= settings to get text to fill MOST of the screen, but you will have to experiment for yourself. It is physically impossible to make vDos or any other program give you the same full-screen view that you got in XP.
As for batch files, yes Windows runs batch files. Just double-click on the batch file, or launch it from the Windows command prompt by navigating to the folder with the batch file, then typing <filename>,BAT and then pressing Enter.</filename>
The question is not "why would you want to use Sort?" but "why would you want to use vDos to run Sort when it runs perfectly well at the Windows command prompt?"
It has been said before: A 16-bit DOS program doing a CPU intensive task (like sorting) will run in vDos much slower than in NTVDM (XP). However, running that same task by a 32-bit (Windows) program is a complete different ballgame. The CPU not only executes faster, the program can do the sorting in Windows gigabyte memory. It is a jaguar compared to a 16-bit DOS turtle. Just grab a 32-bit sorting utility from the Internet.
“Well, there it is!”. Not really, your Windows XP probably has some old monitor with the right dimensions. Just connect your HD monitor to it, and see what Windows XP (NTVDM) full-screen will bring. It will be as “nice” as playing with the screen settings of your new machine.
The old ray tube televisions were once replaced by widescreen LCD’s. For some time you still got much old 4:3 content. You could play with the TV settings, but all you got were unrealistic widen faces, bars on the sides, or something in between. Essentially you now face the same with your new monitor.
Windows XP mode, nor any other virtual XP machine, can physically transform your 16:9 HD monitor to a 4:3 one. Though you’ll have to try, to get convinced the results will even be worse than with vDos.
Jos
I have been using DOS SORT for 25 years in my BAT files to PARSE and SORT groups of files.
It works in fine in DOS 6.2 , Win 98 and Win 2000. Does not work in DOSBOX or VDOSplus
without it I will need to keep a Win 2000 computer. Have not been able to get it to work in
Win 10 x32
“SORT” is an external program. Why would you use DOS SORT.EXE in any non-DOS based Windows version as they have their own SORT programs? And what SORT.EXE does not work in DOSBox. For vDosPlus you’ll have to consult the vDosPlus forum.
Jos
The FreeDOS SORT command and Vernon Buerg's SORTF both run in vDos. They're both fairly easy to find online, e.g.
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/sort/
FYI:
See the vDosPlus thread (below) re SORT info.
At the bottom of that thread is a URL of several 16b to 64b SORT routines.
https://sourceforge.net/p/vdosplus/discussion/general/thread/c71bfa89/