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From: teoh <sec...@ya...> - 2007-04-02 05:55:56
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Thank for your answer. But I tried out the chat gateway and clients. When i killed the gateway, i no longer able to send "messenge" to another user. When I hit "entered", message was passed to another client. I'm just a part-time hobbyist that interested to see how p2p can be used in games. --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. |
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From: Shun-Yun Hu <sy...@ya...> - 2007-04-02 04:32:30
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Yes, right now it is compulsory for the gateway to exist. However, the main purpose of the gateway is 1) to assign unique IDs for clients and 2) serve as an initial contact point. In theory, you could use something like GUIDs to avoid centralized ID assignment, or keep a list of 'usually available' clients or other machines, to avoid the necessity of a gateway. Actually the way VAST works now is that if the gateway is down other existing clients can still function, just that no new clients are able to join the network, because gateway is needed only during the bootstrapping (join) stage. For your other question about broadcasting to everyone in the network, it's not currently supported with VAST, as VAST was designed with supporting millions of concurrent users in mind (you would *not* want to broadcast to millions of people :). However, some kind of 'friends list' or 'scoped broadcast' can in theory be built on VAST. Right now VAST is intended to be simply providing neighbor discovery for AOI neighbors. Perhaps we can build it to the state management library called VASTATE that's currently in development. What apps are you considering building with VAST? Any support you might want to see from the VAST library? Shun-Yun ----- 原始信件 ---- 寄件者： teoh <sec...@ya...> 收件者： vas...@li... 寄件日期： 2007/4/2(星期一) 上午11:14:29 主 旨： [Vast-apps] understanding p2p vast -chat clientz Is it a compulsory for the prior gateway to be staying alive in order to allow other clients to join? In the chat demo, i set up a gateway, then multiple clients connected to it. If I kill the gateway, all the nodes that connected will not be able to do anymore communication. Do you think possible to delegate the server task to clients and thurs allow, even though gateway down, clients are still connected ? The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Vast-apps mailing list Vas...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vast-apps |
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From: teoh <sec...@ya...> - 2007-04-02 03:14:34
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Is it a compulsory for the prior gateway to be staying alive in order to allow other clients to join? In the chat demo, i set up a gateway, then multiple clients connected to it. If I kill the gateway, all the nodes that connected will not be able to do anymore communication. Do you think possible to delegate the server task to clients and thurs allow, even though gateway down, clients are still connected ? --------------------------------- The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. |
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From: Shun-Yun Hu <sy...@ya...> - 2007-04-02 02:33:02
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The radius is simply how far you can see into the distance. Although first-person-shooter (FPS) games allow you to see as far as possible until your line-of-sight is blocked, in MMOGs usually your visibility is limited to some circle or squares (as the world is simply too large for you to see from end to end). So VAST basically provides you with the positions and IPs of all your "AOI neighbors", what you want to do with it (to exchange chat or gun-fires or voice) is completely up to the application that uses VAST. Hope this helps. :) Shun-Yun ----- 原始信件 ---- 寄件者： teoh <sec...@ya...> 收件者： vas...@li... 寄件日期： 2007/4/2(星期一) 上午10:25:53 主 旨： [Vast-apps] chat demo Ok. I got the chat demo working by setting high value for aoi radius at the gateway from 100 to 300. what those value represent? I know it means "radius". can someone explains in more details on this ? any example of vast usage in game server? We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Vast-apps mailing list Vas...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vast-apps |
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From: Shun-Yun Hu <sy...@ya...> - 2007-04-02 02:27:30
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Hello, In the current development version, we've added some post-compilation commands to make it auto-copied to /bin. This will be available in the next release of VAST. Thanks for letting us know! Yes, it is an example of a chat client, but to see the chat works, you'll need to run another client, the circle you see is the area of interest (AOI) or visibility sphere for the client. So if you can see another user/client within your sphere, then anything you type will be displayed for all your AOI neighbors to see. There has been one student project game made with VAST (a plane-shooter) but unreleased, and we're in the process of developing a 3D streaming prototype (see http://ascend.sourceforge.net/docs/pub/ASCEND-TR-002-2006A.pdf) that uses VAST as the underlying P2P layer. If there's any other questions/comments/suggestions, please free feel to let us know. Thanks! Shun-Yun ----- 原始信件 ---- 寄件者： teoh <sec...@ya...> 收件者： vas...@li... 寄件日期： 2007/4/2(星期一) 上午10:17:56 主 旨： [Vast-apps] question on demos I downloaded the source and compiled fine with VC8. Just a few point i would like to point out, the vast.dll, vastsim.dll are not auto copied to /bin folder . I copied that manually. May I know how to use the demo examples that came with the package? I executed the gateway demo as --> demo_gateway.exe 127.0.0.1 100 and then I executed demo_chatva.exe 127.0.0.1 to connect to the gateway. Is this an example "chatting client? (I can onlyl see circles and numberz). I curious to see how the p2p chat client will look like. Any example ? Is there any other examples that vast used in gaming environment, or any existing software? We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Vast-apps mailing list Vas...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vast-apps |
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From: teoh <sec...@ya...> - 2007-04-02 02:25:58
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Ok. I got the chat demo working by setting high value for aoi radius at the gateway from 100 to 300. what those value represent? I know it means "radius". can someone explains in more details on this ? any example of vast usage in game server? --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. |
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From: teoh <sec...@ya...> - 2007-04-02 02:18:05
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I downloaded the source and compiled fine with VC8. Just a few point i would like to point out, the vast.dll, vastsim.dll are not auto copied to /bin folder . I copied that manually. May I know how to use the demo examples that came with the package? I executed the gateway demo as --> demo_gateway.exe 127.0.0.1 100 and then I executed demo_chatva.exe 127.0.0.1 to connect to the gateway. Is this an example "chatting client? (I can onlyl see circles and numberz). I curious to see how the p2p chat client will look like. Any example ? Is there any other examples that vast used in gaming environment, or any existing software? --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. |
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From: Shun-Yun Hu <sy...@ya...> - 2005-11-21 06:19:57
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FYI: URL: http://www.digitalspace.com/proposals/sbir-1999-phase1/ selected paragraphs: ON July 10th, 1997, the "CNN Live from Mars" press conference allowed the public the first chance to see the interactive 3D model capabilities. During the live broadcast, the press collaboratively directed the team lead by Dr. Stoker on where to fly to in the 3D model. Records from that session recall the press asking: "Take us to see Flat-top?", "Where is Yogi?" and show the scientific team flying around the model (made only days earlier) to give them the perspective from these vantage points. Following this groundbreaking presentation, the next question was "when can we do this at home"? A tool to allow the distribution of surface models, data such as temperature, atmospheric composition, spacecraft status, interviews and broadcasts and other mission-related details to standard home computers at modem speeds would not only engage the press and public more deeply in the missions but provide a tremendous educational facility for use in the classroom. From this great store of technologies and architectures there is emerging a capability to create uniquely powerful learning and collaborative environments where 3D data is an essential component. From the NASA perspective, as well as the general marketplace, a 3D tool that combined multi-user interaction with shared 3D scenes and behaviors at varying degrees of resolution, would be of great use in satisfying the above identified needs of the scientific and educational/public outreach missions. The tool, which we are calling a "3D multi-user Internet portal", would encapsulate the following innovations: |
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From: Shun-Yun Hu <sy...@ya...> - 2005-10-28 00:22:30
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Hi all, I was just reading the origin of 'blog' at wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blog#Blogging_begins as i was thinking one of the key thing blog did was making content publisher "easier"for the less technical people, it just occured to me that.. what if.. just what if that putting your own content to the web would be as easy and painless as editing a Office Document? say you've just created a a word document, but there's an option when you do a "Save As.." to actually publish the content at your plog directory. That might just make blogging "a lot more" easier and even more accessible than today's blog (where you have to do a "login" first to a server, then edit your content, then put the publish butten..) I don't know about MS-office extension, however, I think there's a good chance OpenOffice might you to add extension to add such functionality.. (http://www.openoffice.org/) That might be a powerful combination: edit your file in OpenOffice, then publish to plog.. :) Shun-Yun |
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From: Shun-Yun H. <sy...@ya...> - 2005-10-16 05:26:22
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2005/10/16 ---------- 1. ToonTown (www.toontown.com) - fishing is fun and skill-dependent - death is handled in user-friendly way =20 2. 3D streaming choices - apperance-preserving reduction from mesh to equations (changiz thinks it would be difficult) - constructive solid geometry http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/COURSES/cs3621/NOTES/model/csg.html - lego-like modelling? = http://taiwan.cnet.com/enterprise/casestudy/0,2000062888,20101577,00.htm http://www.lego.com/eng/factory/default.asp 3. VAST protocol 0.1 - combining HELLO and EN message - total of 7 message types: ID, QUERY, HELLO, MOVE, MOVE_B, PEER, = PAYLOAD - ID may be locally determined (GUID, 16 bytes, or MAC + port, 8 = bytes) - use MAC + port for now - current protocol is simple (too simple?) compared with Solipsis = protocol http://solipsis.netofpeers.net/wiki/SolipsisProtocol 4. Unicode handling 5. progressive mesh (http://research.microsoft.com/~hoppe/#pm) |
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From: Shun-Yun H. <sy...@ya...> - 2005-10-13 13:06:31
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Hello, I just had an idea about the key to the problem of effective 3D streaming: reduction of arbitrary geometric models into parametric equations that is outline-preserving (appearance-preserving). I was thinking about the question: “what is the minimal amount of “information” required for us to gain a working visual perception of the world around us?” And the answer, as I looked around me after a dinner walk, is: “outlines”. Basically, “shapes”. And to represent simple, basic, fundamental shapes, we don’t really need a lot of triangles. In fact, probably some basic geometries, preferably equation-based, would suffice. Although there’s already “progressive mesh”, when you keep taking triangles out, the “shape” or “outline” starts to degrade and change. However, parametric (equation)-based representation would not only be very small to transmit over the network, but also would possibly retain the outline/shape well. However, the key difficulty is of course, can you find an algorithm that can reduce polygon-based models (any arbitrary model) into some set of equations, and preferably, with different “levels of details” (LOD)? Better yet, if the algorithm could also “blend” with existing progressive mesh techniques, so that equation-based “shapes” can mix with polygon-based models when sufficient polygons are “streamed” to a client computer. So that a *continuous* change in the perceived objects/landscape’s complexity can be observed. Shun-Yun |
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From: Shun-Yun H. <sy...@ya...> - 2005-10-09 05:25:06
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2005/10/09
----------
1. about the idea to aggrate 3D data on P2P
- changiz: sending geometric models will be better than pictures
=20
2. whether P2P should be a separate component or should integrate =
certain services
- syhu: prefer to separate (like Solipsis), next stage work will be =
on VAST protocol design
=20
3. whether to use callback for the processing of network message
- syhu: don't use callback is better for performance reason=20
(main app can decide *when* to process the incoming =
message)
- yakko: can define a Buffer interface, which the app can extend,
network engine then simply store incoming data into Buffer,
where app extension can decide whether to store or process
(this is still a callback mechanism) =20
=20
4. EduCities (www.educities.edu.tw) P-log or MMOG version (will we be =
interested & motivated in such project?)
- syhu: have personal incentive to do education-related =
kid-related MMOG
- yakko: should talk to key people first, know their =
expectation/demand
- changiz: motivation will depend on the actual application.
5. Project Title:=20
- a name for the current project: PLOG |
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From: Shun-Yun H. <sy...@ya...> - 2005-10-06 23:45:28
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Hello all, Had a great idea while eating breakfast. As I tried to figure out how to = support "TRUE" immersive, wide-area 3D visualization, I thought the key = would be intelligent & massive amount of data aggregration (because = bandwidth at a single host is always limited). If SETI@Home can do = massive amounts of calculation, then why can't we apply it on 3D data = pre-calculation?=20 The idea is, assuming large amounts of 3D data are spread across = thousands to millions of computer, but they're all interconnected. Also = assume these computers are online most of the time, yet the user may not = necessarily be using the computers directly. Then it might be possible = to start some "crawling aggregration" during these unused periods of = computing time, to compress and aggregrate 3D data "from a distance".=20 The effect would be: a user who requests streaming of some 3D data, can = very quickly get "compressed & aggregrated" version of the more = distanced objects/landscale, thus be able to see a wider view. What I = think would be cool to achieve is that, if we could look at a 3D scene = very far into the distance, yet it still takes only a short amount of = download time. Yet, doing some real-time downloading of complete data or = aggregration is simply too computationally demanding. Yet, doing it = offline and in pre-computated style would make it possible.=20 Shun-Yun |
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From: Shun-Yun H. <sy...@ya...> - 2005-10-02 21:54:06
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P-log discussion notes
2005/10/02
----------
1. potential problems related to 3D streaming
- collision detection problem (mesh simplication)
- weights on the joints will also need to be adjusted
2. discussion of CC's system components:
- should add a "live-update" module
- a easier way is to have a "core" module that load up others
- network library needs to support host-to-host tranmission
3. Yakko's suggestion to view VAST library as a "resource manager"
- central mechanisms: resource management & message exchange
- resource management includes:
resource locating, resource retrival, resource storage (?)
- however, P2P join/leave should be independent
- CC's recommendation is to keep VAST simply as network library
4. Initial prototype application should support:
- starting the app and see a scene (landscape & trees)
- can see people (other live nodes) as you move
- text input (to send chat)
5. conclusion:
- use C++ for prototype
- design individual object interface
- jobs: CC - 3D, Yakko - i18n & Unicode, syhu - VAST/network
|
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From: Shun-Yun H. <sy...@ya...> - 2005-09-29 13:08:31
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I'll just be posting the notes I've written down during our last =
meeting, the discussion on P-log (Personal/P2P log)... they might not be =
too understandable/readable or organized, but hopefully they've captured =
some of the topics and ideas during our discussion.
2005/09/25
----------
Questions:
1. what are the attractions of this system?=20
- blog + IM
- people have emotional familiarity with a particular geography
- blogs are now like lonely island.. we'll create connected blogs?
=20
2. how can people leave information at a particular place that he will
no longer be around?
- use another layer of static VON
=20
3. what are the key works:
- efficient, stable P2P network implementation
- design requirements
=20
4. development methdology:
- write UI first, then start defining interface
- write down functions first, then grow from there. (preferred)
=20
5. should we include brower? =20
- prefer not (yakko thinks browser will become obsolete)
=20
6. where should we get geographic data/maps
- create our test maps for now.
- need to figure out data format.
7. more ideas for user incentives?
- user-modifiable landscape? (all should be modifiable, but should =
be
restricted by access control list)
=20
8. requirements:
- network, 3D, i18n,=20
- different functions |
