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From: Bauernberger, J. \(EXT\) <joa...@si...> - 2005-08-10 13:56:51
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hi there, without starting a war over this I have to agree.=20 I would never read a NEWS file. NEWS files are in most cases as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike!=20 If at all I read a CHANGELOG (if posted on the download page). But in this case the downloadpage is very vague on what the changes were (but in fact I did not know that the info is vague until now)... The first thing I did was update my MANPATH and had a look at the new man page. As I did not see much new stuff I went straight from testing the new version to writing a mail. IMHO something as crucial as this should be communicated more clearly (and not by pointing the user to the list archives) ... Anyways I like this tool and think you guys do a very good job. you have my full appriciation! regards, ~/joachim=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Rossi [mailto:bo...@br...]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 3:36 PM > To: Nicholas Nethercote > Cc: Bauernberger, Joachim (EXT); val...@li... > Subject: Re: [Valgrind-users] addrcheck gone in valgrind 3.0.0? >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Aug 10, 2005 at 08:30:03AM -0500, Nicholas Nethercote wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Bauernberger, Joachim (EXT) wrote: > >=20 > > >$ valgrind --tool=3Daddrcheck ls > > >Can't open tool "addrcheck": > >=20 > > >From the NEWS file: > >=20 > > - Addrcheck is currently not working. We hope to get it=20 > working again > > soon. Helgrind is still not working, as was the case for=20 > the 2.4.0 > > release. > >=20 > > Is there a problem with reading the NEWS file? This is=20 > about the 5th time=20 > > someone has asked about Addrcheck or Helgrind. I don't=20 > want to put this=20 > > info in the FAQ because it seems like having it in the NEWS=20 > should be=20 > > enough. >=20 > I think it would make sense to post this kind of info in the manual. I > mean, the first thing a user does is read the 3.0 manual and find out > that a nifty plugin called Addrcheck is there. Then when they=20 > go to use > it, it doesn't work. So they naturally ask here. What would point them > to reading the NEWS file? >=20 > As I understand it, valgrind is special in the sense that=20 > most programs > don't "pick up/drop" support for plugins between versions.=20 > Usually once > a program supports a feature set, it doesn't go back. >=20 > Bob Rossi >=20 |
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From: Bauernberger, J. \(EXT\) <joa...@si...> - 2005-08-10 14:37:31
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> Definitely. That's common netiquette. Before you broadcast=20 > a question > to an entire group of busy people, check to see if it's been asked and > answered already. I can not agree in this case. If I see a clear description on the downloadpage that informs me about the changes within a version! So why should I think that a CHANGELOG or NEWS file contains additional or different information?? As for your comment "to an entire group of busy people" I can only say:=20 If you do have the time to answer or participate in such a thread (yes and I do feel bad for getting this started) then you can't be very busy yourself can you?=20 So for the sake of netiquette, let's please stop this discussion here and now.=20 (Anyone who wants to mail me offline about netiquette please feel free to do so!)=20 thanks & best regards, joachim |
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From: Nicholas N. <nj...@cs...> - 2005-08-10 14:42:27
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On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Bauernberger, Joachim (EXT) wrote: >> Definitely. That's common netiquette. Before you broadcast a question >> to an entire group of busy people, check to see if it's been asked and >> answered already. > > I can not agree in this case. If I see a clear description on the > downloadpage that informs me about the changes within a version! So why > should I think that a CHANGELOG or NEWS file contains additional or > different information?? From http://www.valgrind.org/downloads/source_code.html: Release 3.0.0 valgrind 3.0.0 (tar.bz2) [2679Kb] - 3 August 2005. md5: e976a343c61d9505162f595a8aeb09c1 3.0.0 is a major overhaul of Valgrind. There have been many changes and improvements. The most significant user visible change is that Valgrind now supports architectures other than x86. 3.0.0 supports both X86 and AMD64 running Linux. PPC32 on Linux is under development but not yet usable. See the NEWS file for details of these and many other changes. Note the last sentence. > As for your comment "to an entire group of busy people" I can only say: > > If you do have the time to answer or participate in such a thread (yes > and I do feel bad for getting this started) then you can't be very busy > yourself can you? This line of reasoning insults just about anyone who's ever answered a question on a mailing list or newsgroup. N |
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From: Bauernberger, J. \(EXT\) <joa...@si...> - 2005-08-10 15:29:07
Attachments:
valgrind.1.patch
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Hi, >=20 > 3.0.0 is a major overhaul of Valgrind. There have been many=20 > changes and > improvements. The most significant user visible change is=20 > that Valgrind > now supports architectures other than x86. 3.0.0 supports=20 > both X86 and > AMD64 running Linux. PPC32 on Linux is under development but not yet > usable. See the NEWS file for details of these and many=20 > other changes. >=20 > Note the last sentence. Yes I agree, it's surely there somewhere if you download the tarball. However such a crucial change should be right on top together with the important fact that valgrind now supports other architectures. Why do you think you get so many people asking this particual question over and over? Are you calling them all stupid or lazy? Instead of complaining one should be considering to take steps to make it more obvious. That's my only point.=20 > This line of reasoning insults just about anyone who's ever=20 > answered a=20 > question on a mailing list or newsgroup. It was not my intention to insult people so if anyone here feels insulted by what I have to say then I am deeply sorry. However I do not think that it's particualry helpful telling people about the netiqette and telling them to RTFM when the man page is vague and the information on what changed can be found at different places.=20 Under no circumstance do I want to criticise any work that has sofar be done. I think valgrind is great. My full respect to the developers.=20 thanks & best regards, ~/joachim PS: attached is a patch for the manpage |
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From: Bauernberger, J. \(EXT\) <joa...@si...> - 2005-08-10 16:28:59
Attachments:
coregrind_main_addrcheck.patch
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>=20 > ...or perhaps we could rephrase: "Sorry, addrcheck is not yet=20 > supported in > valgrind 3. See the NEWS file." >=20 > Once you've actually smacked them in the head with it, they=20 > might actually > read the documentation :) attached is a patch for that :-) the only thing that really needed to be modified is the online download page (or put the NEWS file online and link to it ...)! ~/joachim >=20 > Have fun, >=20 > Avery |
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From: Fabio M. <fab...@gm...> - 2005-08-10 14:07:11
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Well, anyone should at least check the mailing list archives before posting any question IMO. On 8/10/05, Bauernberger, Joachim (EXT) <joa...@si...> wrote: > hi there, >=20 > without starting a war over this I have to agree. >=20 > I would never read a NEWS file. NEWS files are in most cases as useful > as an ashtray on a motorbike! >=20 > If at all I read a CHANGELOG (if posted on the download page). But in > this case the downloadpage is very vague on what the changes were (but > in fact I did not know that the info is vague until now)... >=20 > The first thing I did was update my MANPATH and had a look at the new > man page. As I did not see much new stuff I went straight from testing > the new version to writing a mail. >=20 > IMHO something as crucial as this should be communicated more clearly > (and not by pointing the user to the list archives) ... >=20 > Anyways I like this tool and think you guys do a very good job. you have > my full appriciation! >=20 > regards, > ~/joachim >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bob Rossi [mailto:bo...@br...] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 3:36 PM > > To: Nicholas Nethercote > > Cc: Bauernberger, Joachim (EXT); val...@li... > > Subject: Re: [Valgrind-users] addrcheck gone in valgrind 3.0.0? > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 10, 2005 at 08:30:03AM -0500, Nicholas Nethercote wrote: > > > On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Bauernberger, Joachim (EXT) wrote: > > > > > > >$ valgrind --tool=3Daddrcheck ls > > > >Can't open tool "addrcheck": > > > > > > >From the NEWS file: > > > > > > - Addrcheck is currently not working. We hope to get it > > working again > > > soon. Helgrind is still not working, as was the case for > > the 2.4.0 > > > release. > > > > > > Is there a problem with reading the NEWS file? This is > > about the 5th time > > > someone has asked about Addrcheck or Helgrind. I don't > > want to put this > > > info in the FAQ because it seems like having it in the NEWS > > should be > > > enough. > > > > I think it would make sense to post this kind of info in the manual. I > > mean, the first thing a user does is read the 3.0 manual and find out > > that a nifty plugin called Addrcheck is there. Then when they > > go to use > > it, it doesn't work. So they naturally ask here. What would point them > > to reading the NEWS file? > > > > As I understand it, valgrind is special in the sense that > > most programs > > don't "pick up/drop" support for plugins between versions. > > Usually once > > a program supports a feature set, it doesn't go back. > > > > Bob Rossi > > >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO > September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practic= es > Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & Q= A > Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf > _______________________________________________ > Valgrind-users mailing list > Val...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/valgrind-users > |
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From: Bob D. <bd...@sr...> - 2005-08-10 14:17:58
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Definitely. That's common netiquette. Before you broadcast a question to an entire group of busy people, check to see if it's been asked and answered already. On Wed, 2005-08-10 at 11:07 -0300, Fabio Margarido wrote: > Well, anyone should at least check the mailing list archives before > posting any question IMO. > > On 8/10/05, Bauernberger, Joachim (EXT) > <joa...@si...> wrote: > > hi there, > > > > without starting a war over this I have to agree. > > > > I would never read a NEWS file. NEWS files are in most cases as useful > > as an ashtray on a motorbike! > > > > If at all I read a CHANGELOG (if posted on the download page). But in > > this case the downloadpage is very vague on what the changes were (but > > in fact I did not know that the info is vague until now)... > > > > The first thing I did was update my MANPATH and had a look at the new > > man page. As I did not see much new stuff I went straight from testing > > the new version to writing a mail. > > > > IMHO something as crucial as this should be communicated more clearly > > (and not by pointing the user to the list archives) ... > > > > Anyways I like this tool and think you guys do a very good job. you have > > my full appriciation! > > > > regards, > > ~/joachim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bob Rossi [mailto:bo...@br...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 3:36 PM > > > To: Nicholas Nethercote > > > Cc: Bauernberger, Joachim (EXT); val...@li... > > > Subject: Re: [Valgrind-users] addrcheck gone in valgrind 3.0.0? > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 10, 2005 at 08:30:03AM -0500, Nicholas Nethercote wrote: > > > > On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Bauernberger, Joachim (EXT) wrote: > > > > > > > > >$ valgrind --tool=addrcheck ls > > > > >Can't open tool "addrcheck": > > > > > > > > >From the NEWS file: > > > > > > > > - Addrcheck is currently not working. We hope to get it > > > working again > > > > soon. Helgrind is still not working, as was the case for > > > the 2.4.0 > > > > release. > > > > > > > > Is there a problem with reading the NEWS file? This is > > > about the 5th time > > > > someone has asked about Addrcheck or Helgrind. I don't > > > want to put this > > > > info in the FAQ because it seems like having it in the NEWS > > > should be > > > > enough. > > > > > > I think it would make sense to post this kind of info in the manual. I > > > mean, the first thing a user does is read the 3.0 manual and find out > > > that a nifty plugin called Addrcheck is there. Then when they > > > go to use > > > it, it doesn't work. So they naturally ask here. What would point them > > > to reading the NEWS file? > > > > > > As I understand it, valgrind is special in the sense that > > > most programs > > > don't "pick up/drop" support for plugins between versions. > > > Usually once > > > a program supports a feature set, it doesn't go back. > > > > > > Bob Rossi > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO > > September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices > > Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & QA > > Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf > > _______________________________________________ > > Valgrind-users mailing list > > Val...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/valgrind-users > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO > September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices > Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & QA > Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf > _______________________________________________ > Valgrind-users mailing list > Val...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/valgrind-users |
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From: Maurice v. d. P. <gri...@ge...> - 2005-08-10 15:31:25
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On Wed, Aug 10, 2005 at 10:17:53AM -0400, Bob Dusek wrote: > Definitely. That's common netiquette. =20 So is cutting out any irrelevant parts from the quoted text. ;) (and not top-posting for that matter) --=20 Maurice van der Pot Gentoo Linux Developer gri...@ge... http://www.gentoo.org Creator of BiteMe! gri...@kf... http://www.kfk4ever.com |
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From: Scott L. <sc...@sw...> - 2005-08-10 16:09:29
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Bob Dusek wrote: > Definitely. That's common netiquette. Before you broadcast a question > to an entire group of busy people, check to see if it's been asked and > answered already. That's nice and all, but the reality is that people won't do that. So you have to ask yourself, do I really want to deal with all this garbage and continue harping on netiquette, or just post the information in a way that helps alleviate the questions and get back to work? -- Scott Long <sc...@sw...> Software Engineer SwiftView, Inc. (971) 223-2639 |