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usbpicprog-technical
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From: RedoX <ad...@re...> - 2010-08-31 22:29:32
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Hello, First, I'm a French student, I know my English isn't perfect, but I'll try to make it look good. I apologize in advance for my mistakes. So: I've been trying (fighting ? ^^ ) to make a board of the through-hole version of UsbPicProg for almost a week now, but I'm still having a lot of problems with it... I got a single side board so, I'm not using the ground plane on top of the board, but put some jumpers to join grounds on the bottom plane. Maybe that's the cause of all my problems... Your opinion on that point ? I don't think that's a problem but am maybe wrong too :/ I didn't put R13 on the board because, I didn't know what value choosing, and when I tried wit ha 10k Ohms resistor, the results were even worse, so I removed it. Am I wrong ? I'm currently using Archlinux 32bits with the latest versions availables at download (r924 for the firmware). IO Test are showing promising results (10.7v on VPP, the others are OK.) I've checked and checked again my board, but I've got some weird results: I have 3 models of PICs: three 12F683, three 16f688 and two 18f2550 (one is on the board, the other one wasn't working well when I got It :/). With the 12f683, my board is working well. (Detect, Read, Erase, Check Blank, Program, .. Everything !) With the 18f2550, the chip is recognized, can be read, but write on it is not possible at all (erasing or programming, same result, no changes.) Voltages are OK in all ways: VPP, VDD, ... And the chip isn't dead, I'm able to program it with a JDM-like programmer (3-4 resistors, and a BS170 to get voltage on Vdd, it's not working without it (while the 12f683 is OK without the mosfet...)) with picprog software. With the 16f688, even worse... The chip isn't even recognized by the software. (I've tried different ones, no results) Oh, when I'm running the IO tests, board connected to a chip, I get this result: When I set Vpp to float and Vdd to 5v, Vpp goes to 4.7v (as Vdd really does). I tried many times, checked every traces, checked almost every single solder plot, checked all the transistors, ... Tried version 4.0 stable of the software and firmware. No results in any way. I've planned to make an other board, cleaner than this one (traces are not perfect everywhere) but I wish to make this one working if possible as I don't have to much time at the moment... Do you have any idea ? Met the same problems maybe ? First, thank for your project, very interesting. And Thanks in advance for every little piece of help you may give to me. |
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From: Frans S. <fra...@gm...> - 2010-09-01 07:33:17
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Hello, First of all, R13 should be left unmounted, that's why it has no value. I don't think the ground plane is a problem here, but your VPP seems to be too low, it should be somewhere around 12V (not 10.7). Could you also measure it using a multimeter? You can also try to remove the 12V Zener diode because it might be causing problems (just leave it open). Also have a look at the 1uf capacitors, maybe they have quite a high resistance or their value is not good enough. You can also try 10uF elcos for that. I hope this will help you a bit further, anyway - don't hesitate to ask again if it still doesn't work. Frans On 09/01/2010 12:02 AM, RedoX wrote: > Hello, > > First, I'm a French student, I know my English isn't perfect, but I'll > try to make it look good. I apologize in advance for my mistakes. So: > > I've been trying (fighting ? ^^ ) to make a board of the through-hole > version of UsbPicProg for almost a week now, but I'm still having a lot > of problems with it... I got a single side board so, I'm not using the > ground plane on top of the board, but put some jumpers to join grounds > on the bottom plane. Maybe that's the cause of all my problems... Your > opinion on that point ? I don't think that's a problem but am maybe > wrong too :/ > > I didn't put R13 on the board because, I didn't know what value > choosing, and when I tried wit ha 10k Ohms resistor, the results were > even worse, so I removed it. Am I wrong ? > > I'm currently using Archlinux 32bits with the latest versions > availables at download (r924 for the firmware). > IO Test are showing promising results (10.7v on VPP, the others are OK.) > > I've checked and checked again my board, but I've got some weird results: > I have 3 models of PICs: three 12F683, three 16f688 and two 18f2550 (one > is on the board, the other one wasn't working well when I got It :/). > > With the 12f683, my board is working well. (Detect, Read, Erase, Check > Blank, Program, .. Everything !) > With the 18f2550, the chip is recognized, can be read, but write on it > is not possible at all (erasing or programming, same result, no > changes.) Voltages are OK in all ways: VPP, VDD, ... And the chip isn't > dead, I'm able to program it with a JDM-like programmer (3-4 resistors, > and a BS170 to get voltage on Vdd, it's not working without it (while > the 12f683 is OK without the mosfet...)) with picprog software. > With the 16f688, even worse... The chip isn't even recognized by the > software. (I've tried different ones, no results) > > Oh, when I'm running the IO tests, board connected to a chip, I get this > result: When I set Vpp to float and Vdd to 5v, Vpp goes to 4.7v (as Vdd > really does). > > I tried many times, checked every traces, checked almost every single > solder plot, checked all the transistors, ... Tried version 4.0 stable > of the software and firmware. No results in any way. > I've planned to make an other board, cleaner than this one (traces are > not perfect everywhere) but I wish to make this one working if possible > as I don't have to much time at the moment... > > Do you have any idea ? Met the same problems maybe ? > > First, thank for your project, very interesting. > And Thanks in advance for every little piece of help you may give to me. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by: > > Show off your parallel programming skills. > Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd > _______________________________________________ > Usbpicprog-technical mailing list > Usb...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/usbpicprog-technical > |
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From: RedoX <ad...@re...> - 2010-09-04 21:07:16
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Hello, R13 is disconnected. That's what i though first, but because it was on the schematics I tried with... Now It's OK, left removed. In fact, the values I gave you were taken with a voltmeter (pretty accurate) and not only with the IO test program (there a difference of 0.20-0.30 V between the voltmeter and the software.) I tried removing the 12V Zener, without success. In fact, the voltage pump seems to work well: When I measure before Q4 I get a little more than 12V, but after Q4, the voltage doesn't reach more than 10.7-11V. This 2v loss seems common, normal with this kind of transistors... According to the datasheet: the Gate Threshold Voltage seems to be typically 2.1v. I tried to bypass Q4 but that's no good idea... VPP is good but no more controlled, so devices won't go in programming mode... I'm using 1uF 50V capacitors, it should be fine (and my getting 12v at R1 !), and I tried changing the transistor with a one picked from an other store (different serie, still BS170) without better result. When I tried to recognize the 18f, Vpp is around 10.7v, when I try with the 16F, VPP goes to 9.7v... According to the datasheets, theses VPP voltages are correct to enter programming mode, but shoudln't be differents and the 16f should be detected, even if it doesn't want to program (as the 18f is doing (but the device may be in cause, I'm not sure it's ok...)) I'm waiting for some others 18F from Microchip, I'll try with these ones... And at last, I'll try an other board... Maybe I have some kind of bad luck with this one ^^ I don't know how to reply directly to your reply, so I'm sending you this email. I hope I'm not wrong, I'm not quite familiar this Mailing lists. Moreover, I subscribed to the mailing list-archive , but got no notification of your answer... I'll check this. Thanks for your help. |
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From: Frans S. <fra...@gm...> - 2010-09-05 10:48:30
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Hello, In case you don't get an e-mail from the mailing list, I also send it to your e-mail address. The voltage on R1 should be about 13.something volt, 12V is too low. I still suspect your capacitors. I am also curious what you connected as a target board, is there anything else besides the target microcontroller? Or did you maybe make other connections to the MCLR line? Good luck! Frans Op 4-9-2010 23:06, RedoX schreef: > Hello, > > R13 is disconnected. That's what i though first, but because it was on > the schematics I tried with... Now It's OK, left removed. > > In fact, the values I gave you were taken with a voltmeter (pretty > accurate) and not only with the IO test program (there a difference of > 0.20-0.30 V between the voltmeter and the software.) > > I tried removing the 12V Zener, without success. > > In fact, the voltage pump seems to work well: When I measure before Q4 I > get a little more than 12V, but after Q4, the voltage doesn't reach more > than 10.7-11V. This 2v loss seems common, normal with this kind of > transistors... According to the datasheet: the Gate Threshold Voltage > seems to be typically 2.1v. I tried to bypass Q4 but that's no good > idea... VPP is good but no more controlled, so devices won't go in > programming mode... > > I'm using 1uF 50V capacitors, it should be fine (and my getting 12v at > R1 !), and I tried changing the transistor with a one picked from an > other store (different serie, still BS170) without better result. > > When I tried to recognize the 18f, Vpp is around 10.7v, when I try with > the 16F, VPP goes to 9.7v... According to the datasheets, theses VPP > voltages are correct to enter programming mode, but shoudln't be > differents and the 16f should be detected, even if it doesn't want to > program (as the 18f is doing (but the device may be in cause, I'm not > sure it's ok...)) > > I'm waiting for some others 18F from Microchip, I'll try with these > ones... And at last, I'll try an other board... Maybe I have some kind > of bad luck with this one ^^ > > I don't know how to reply directly to your reply, so I'm sending you > this email. I hope I'm not wrong, I'm not quite familiar this Mailing lists. > Moreover, I subscribed to the mailing list-archive , but got no > notification of your answer... I'll check this. > > Thanks for your help. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by: > > Show off your parallel programming skills. > Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd > _______________________________________________ > Usbpicprog-technical mailing list > Usb...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/usbpicprog-technical |
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From: RedoX <ad...@re...> - 2010-09-05 12:17:31
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On 05/09/2010 12:48, Frans Schreuder wrote: > Hello, > > In case you don't get an e-mail from the mailing list, I also send it > to your e-mail address. > The voltage on R1 should be about 13.something volt, 12V is too low. I > still suspect your capacitors. > I am also curious what you connected as a target board, is there > anything else besides the target microcontroller? Or did you maybe > make other connections to the MCLR line? > > Good luck! > > Frans Thanks, I re-registered to the mailing-list so it should be ok now. Thanks ! According to your last advice, I tried to change the capacitors, first by new 1uF => Still getting 12v at R1. Then I tried with 10uF and got 12.8v. As target board, all I get is the target PIC (wired on a protoboard). Nothing else. I'll wait for the others PIC to arrive, then I'll try and keep you updated. I don't have too much hope, but maybe the one I get were damaged before I got them... Anyway, during my next holidays (in 6 weeks) I'll make an other board. Thanks for you help :) |
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