unityca-announce — Low-volume; important UnityCA news and release info.

Re: [Unityca-announce] brainstorming

[Christian B. <chr...@ba...>]

Hi,

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Black" <un...@ma...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 12:46 AM

> even if no progress has been made.

Actually *some* progress has been made:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christian Barmala" <chr...@gm...>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 5:21 PM

> I'll do the development on my own

see http://ca.barmala.com/faq.en.php#down

> If you should continue with Unityca one day and extend my software to
> fit your needs, you may do this on your own, based on the GPL license.


Regarding continuation:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adam Butler" <ada...@gm...>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:05 PM

> should opportunities arise to fund [or otherwise jump-start] this project 
> again.

Does anyone see such an opportunity?


> if we *do* start something soon, which is possible,

Does anyone intend to start anything any soon?

Christian

Re: [Unityca-announce] brainstorming

[Greg B. <un...@ma...>]

On 2005-02-14, Adam Butler wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:37:01 +0100, Christian Barmala <chr...@ba...> wrote:
>> From: "Adam Butler" <ad...@ad...>

>>> I threw up a few categories for us to use under the "Feature Request"
>>> tracker tool...  Basically, if we can each take a minute or two and
>>> brainstorm a bit:
>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=116815&atid=676127
>> 
>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=116815 does not show any activity.
>> May I therefore suggest to terminate this project and ask SourceForge to
>> delete it?
> 
> I don't think that will be necessary, but thanks for offering, Christian.
> 
> I'd prefer to keep this community -- albeit small ---
> together/available should opportunities arise to fund [or otherwise
> jump-start] this project again.  (And I don't think there's any real
> problem or issue with us hanging around...not like we're taking up
> ungodly amounts of resources on SF.net, for example.)
> 
> Bottom line, I guess, is that it's free to keep this all together (so
> if we *do* start something soon, which is possible, then we still have
> a fledgling network of "interested people" we can alert) and we really
> don't gain anything by deleting the existing framework.  So it's a
> risk with really no reward, imho.
> 
> If you'd like to remove yourself as an admin, that's your choice of
> course...  But no, kindly don't just delete the project unless there's
> some overwhelming reason to do so -- perhaps one I don't know of...?

I agree with Adam.  It seems a pity to dismantle this, even if
no progress has been made.  It's still possible that we (or
others who find the project) might do something with it.

Greg

Re: [Unityca-announce] brainstorming

[Adam B. <ada...@gm...>]

I don't think that will be necessary, but thanks for offering, Christian.

I'd prefer to keep this community -- albeit small ---
together/available should opportunities arise to fund [or otherwise
jump-start] this project again.  (And I don't think there's any real
problem or issue with us hanging around...not like we're taking up
ungodly amounts of resources on SF.net, for example.)

Bottom line, I guess, is that it's free to keep this all together (so
if we *do* start something soon, which is possible, then we still have
a fledgling network of "interested people" we can alert) and we really
don't gain anything by deleting the existing framework.  So it's a
risk with really no reward, imho.

If you'd like to remove yourself as an admin, that's your choice of
course...  But no, kindly don't just delete the project unless there's
some overwhelming reason to do so -- perhaps one I don't know of...?

My $0.02,

Adam

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:37:01 +0100, Christian Barmala
<chr...@ba...> wrote:
> Hi,
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adam Butler" <ad...@ad...>
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 12:07 AM
>=20
> > I threw up a few categories for us to use under the "Feature Request"
> > tracker tool...  Basically, if we can each take a minute or two and
> > brainstorm a bit:
> > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=3Dadd&group_id=3D116815&atid=3D67=
6127
>=20
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=3D116815 does not show any acti=
vity.
> May I therefore suggest to terminate this project and ask SourceForge to
> delete it?
>=20
> Christian
>=20
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Re: [Unityca-announce] brainstorming

[Christian B. <chr...@ba...>]

Hi,

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adam Butler" <ad...@ad...>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 12:07 AM

> I threw up a few categories for us to use under the "Feature Request" 
> tracker tool...  Basically, if we can each take a minute or two and 
> brainstorm a bit: 
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=116815&atid=676127

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=116815 does not show any activity. 
May I therefore suggest to terminate this project and ask SourceForge to 
delete it?

Christian

Re: [Unityca-announce] brainstorming

[Adam B. <ada...@gm...>]

Perhaps we need girls in bikinis, waving huge signs that say "GIVE US
YOUR...opinion!"

or something. :)


On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:28:00 -0800, Chip Shabazian <ch...@sh...> wrote:
> I didn't get any feedback at all.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christian Barmala [mailto:chr...@ba...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 12:31 AM
> To: Adam Butler; Chip Shabazian
> Subject: Re: [Unityca-announce] brainstorming
> 
> Hi Adam, hi Chip,
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adam Butler" <ad...@ad...>
> To: "Chip Shabazian" <ch...@sh...>
> Cc: <uni...@li...>
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 12:07 AM
> 
> > I threw up a few categories for us to brainstorm a bit regarding (1)
> stuff
> > the software *should* do, and (2) whether these things need to be in
> our
> > "quick and dirty" version 0.01, or if they can wait:
> > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=116815&atid=676127
> .
> > The choices are basically (1) YES, this MUST be in the first version;
> (2)
> > this SHOULD ...
> 
> I looked at the URL and didn't see any feedback beside Adam's initial
> sample. Did you get any other feedback?
> 
> Usually if no one else gives any feedback, at least Philipp notifies you
> that these choices must be specified according to RFC2119 :-)
> 
> Christian
> 
>

[Unityca-announce] UnityCA

[Philipp <pg...@fu...>]

Hi everyone,

Now I finally found the time to install UnityCA on one of my servers.
Unfortunately none of my test-servers had a PHP > 4.3, so I had to take a 
production server for it.
(So I cannot give you accounts to it for working cooperatively on it)

The first little problem I stumbled across was the creation of the necessary 
directories, that I had to do on my own:

buzzer4:/home/unityca/public_html/uwf/_Site # la
total 0
drwxr-xr-x    6 wwwrun   root          144 Oct 14 02:42 .
drwxr-xr-x    4 wwwrun   root          128 Oct 14 02:42 ..
drwxr-xr-x    2 wwwrun   root          128 Oct 14 02:41 CVS
drwxr-xr-x    3 wwwrun   root          312 Oct 14 02:42 admin
drwxr-xr-x    3 wwwrun   root          424 Oct 14 02:42 lib
drwxr-xr-x    3 wwwrun   root          368 Oct 14 02:42 template
buzzer4:/home/unityca/public_html/uwf/_Site # mkdir config
buzzer4:/home/unityca/public_html/uwf/_Site # chown wwwrun config/
buzzer4:/home/unityca/public_html/uwf/_Site # mkdir config/tmp
buzzer4:/home/unityca/public_html/uwf/_Site # chown wwwrun config/tmp/
buzzer4:/home/unityca/public_html/uwf/_Site # mkdir ca
buzzer4:/home/unityca/public_html/uwf/_Site # chown wwwrun ca
buzzer4:/home/unityca/public_html/uwf/_Site #     


Where is the CVS server gone?
I wanted to start commiting my improvements, but the CVS server seems to be 
gone ... has anyone seen it?
Should I use my own CVS Server?
Did I forgot something?

So here is the current result of the installation:

http://62.99.234.13/~unityca/uwf/_Site/admin/siteconf01.en.php

Many greetings,
Philipp

[Unityca-announce] IRC Service

[Philipp <pg...@fu...>]

Hi,

I installed a new IRC server, which we can use for discussion:

irc.webfuture.at #unityca

Please contact me if you have technical problems with it.

Many greetings,
Philipp G=FChring
ICQ: 6588261

[Unityca-announce] RE: chip/chris -- what's the difference? ;)

[Chip S. <ch...@sh...>]

No problem, I've been called much worse...

=20

And yes, I'll take a look at what's posted and help organize/categorize,
give input or do whatever I can.

=20

Chris... er, Chip ;-D

=20

  _____ =20

From: Adam Butler [mailto:ad...@ad...]=20
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 4:17 PM
Cc: Chip Shabazian; uni...@li...
Subject: chip/chris -- what's the difference? ;)

=20

Apologies to Chip for calling him "Chris."  I promise to sleep a few
more hours next weekend than I did this time. :)

AB

Adam Butler wrote:



Based on Chris' earlier suggestion, I threw up a few categories for us
to use under the "Feature Request" tracker tool...  Basically, if we can
each take a minute or two and brainstorm a bit regarding (1) stuff the
software *should* do, and (2) whether these things need to be in our
"quick and dirty" version 0.01, or if they can wait:=20

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=3Dadd&group_id=3D116815&atid=3D6761=
27
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=3Dadd&group_id=3D116815&atid=3D676=
127>


Just brainstorm a bit; don't worry if the ideas are way too long-term to
worry about now (we'll classify them as such and then come back to them
later).  Just focus on putting together what you believe are the
primary, most important things (from an end-user perspective) that the
software needs to accomplish.  (I already submitted an example -- "Issue
certs."  lol)=20

The choices are basically (1) YES, this MUST be in the first version;
(2) this SHOULD be in the first version if we can help it; (3) this can
wait -- short term; (4) long term "strategic" stuff we *eventually*
want, but don't need in v0.1; and finally (5) stuff that we really don't
plan to ever worry about (non-priorities, stuff that is out-of-scope,
etc.).=20
Chris, can you help me keep an eye on the tracker and try to get some
prelimnary categorizations selected for the stuff that comes in?
Everyone else, could you please take a minute or two and type in a few
of (what you think are) the most important things our software needs to
do?=20

If we can get a solid idea of the requirements/needs we have for a
"quick and dirty version," it shouldn't be hard to manufacture a
step-by-step plan for coding it.  Thoughts?=20

AB=20


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[Unityca-announce] chip/chris -- what's the difference? ;)

[Adam B. <ad...@ad...>]

Apologies to Chip for calling him "Chris."  I promise to sleep a few 
more hours next weekend than I did this time. :)

AB

Adam Butler wrote:

> Based on Chris' earlier suggestion, I threw up a few categories for us 
> to use under the "Feature Request" tracker tool...  Basically, if we 
> can each take a minute or two and brainstorm a bit regarding (1) stuff 
> the software *should* do, and (2) whether these things need to be in 
> our "quick and dirty" version 0.01, or if they can wait:
>
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=116815&atid=676127
>
> Just brainstorm a bit; don't worry if the ideas are way too long-term 
> to worry about now (we'll classify them as such and then come back to 
> them later).  Just focus on putting together what you believe are the 
> primary, most important things (from an end-user perspective) that the 
> software needs to accomplish.  (I already submitted an example -- 
> "Issue certs."  lol)
>
> The choices are basically (1) YES, this MUST be in the first version; 
> (2) this SHOULD be in the first version if we can help it; (3) this 
> can wait -- short term; (4) long term "strategic" stuff we 
> *eventually* want, but don't need in v0.1; and finally (5) stuff that 
> we really don't plan to ever worry about (non-priorities, stuff that 
> is out-of-scope, etc.).
> Chris, can you help me keep an eye on the tracker and try to get some 
> prelimnary categorizations selected for the stuff that comes in?  
> Everyone else, could you please take a minute or two and type in a few 
> of (what you think are) the most important things our software needs 
> to do?
>
> If we can get a solid idea of the requirements/needs we have for a 
> "quick and dirty version," it shouldn't be hard to manufacture a 
> step-by-step plan for coding it.  Thoughts?
>
> AB
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal
> Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us
> Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out 
> more
> http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl
> _______________________________________________
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> Uni...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/unityca-announce

[Unityca-announce] brainstorming

[Adam B. <ad...@ad...>]

Based on Chris' earlier suggestion, I threw up a few categories for us 
to use under the "Feature Request" tracker tool...  Basically, if we can 
each take a minute or two and brainstorm a bit regarding (1) stuff the 
software *should* do, and (2) whether these things need to be in our 
"quick and dirty" version 0.01, or if they can wait:

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=116815&atid=676127

Just brainstorm a bit; don't worry if the ideas are way too long-term to 
worry about now (we'll classify them as such and then come back to them 
later).  Just focus on putting together what you believe are the 
primary, most important things (from an end-user perspective) that the 
software needs to accomplish.  (I already submitted an example -- "Issue 
certs."  lol)

The choices are basically (1) YES, this MUST be in the first version; 
(2) this SHOULD be in the first version if we can help it; (3) this can 
wait -- short term; (4) long term "strategic" stuff we *eventually* 
want, but don't need in v0.1; and finally (5) stuff that we really don't 
plan to ever worry about (non-priorities, stuff that is out-of-scope, 
etc.). 

Chris, can you help me keep an eye on the tracker and try to get some 
prelimnary categorizations selected for the stuff that comes in?  
Everyone else, could you please take a minute or two and type in a few 
of (what you think are) the most important things our software needs to do?

If we can get a solid idea of the requirements/needs we have for a 
"quick and dirty version," it shouldn't be hard to manufacture a 
step-by-step plan for coding it.  Thoughts?

AB

[Unityca-announce] moving forward

[Adam B. <ad...@ad...>]

Chip,

Thanks for your prompt reply -- I think you make some excellent points 
and (if I may) I'd like to suggest how your comments seem to suggest an 
interim course of action...  Something to get us talking, thinking, etc:

Chip Shabazian wrote:

>I fully agree.  As one of the non-technical people, there is a lot I can
>do, but unfortunately coding isn't my strong suit.
>  
>
Ironically enough, it's my experience with projects like this that 
people like yourself are actually Holy Grail of putting out a decent 
product.  Forget this "unfortunately coding isn't my strong suit" crap 
-- yes, we may be in a position now (right at the offset) when we need a 
lot of coding work to get where we'd like to be, BUT, as time goes on, 
it seems like projects like ours seem to lose people such as 
yourself...  (Probably because of all the tech talk that [wrongly] 
not-so-subtly suggests you have nothing to offer!)

Like many of the people here, I have on more than one occasion found 
myself so intent on coding or "fixing" one "feature" or another that it 
took an outsider, a non-coder, to look at whatever the hell I was doing 
and ask "Um, exactly why do we NEED that?" before I realized I'd allowed 
myself to go way off-scope, or that I'd designed an interface that was 
worthless to the end-user. 

A (somewhat) outside perspective like yours is important to help keep 
the rest of our eyes on the ball.  Generally, it seems that we go 
seeking for "non-coders" far too long after initiating a project...  We 
take what we've got, give it to the guinea pig, and say, "Um, so can you 
understand what this does?"  lol 

But what if we incorporated that perspective into the initial stages of 
the project?  Why don't we coder/type-A folks step back a bit and see 
what the end-users really do want...  Or rather, what do "non-coders" 
think the project needs to do in order to succeed (at least in the 
short-term) -- what exactly *is* "good enough to get the job done?" 

Chris suggests a "quick and dirty" solution -- just getting something up 
there that works, then moving from there....reminds me of rapid 
prototyping, but i don't want to put words in his mouth. :)

> 
>If we had small, interim steps that people could see a roadmap, vision
>and progress, that would probably allow others to jump in where they
>could.  there are two ways to go about a project like this, one is to
>have a perfect product, engineered to death, and miss the market.  The
>other is to introduce a basic, limited, maybe even barely functional
>product, but get interest from both users and coders that can help.
> 
>MY opinion, is that the latter is more effective.  If we could create
>something quick and dirty, that may WORK but isn't elegant, and put it
>on a website for others to experiment with, that would create interest
>and excitement both within our group as well as draw more and more
>people in to help the project.
>  
>
I totally agree.  The only quesiton is, of course, what (in general) do 
we all accept is necessary in the "quick and dirty" solution Chris 
speaks of?  What must the code ABSOLUTELY do ... and what can wait for 
the next iteration?

I think a discussion/brainstorming on this would be a great place to 
start---perhaps an alternate to the somewhat rigid (though historically 
quite effective) technique Christian likes (defining programing 
methodologies in advance, etc.) might work better here?  Again, not 
discounting Christian's work -- just suggesting that we go at this a 
different way rather than giving up or terminating the project...?

> 
>I understand much of what Christian originally wrote may be hard coded,
>but wouldn't it be easier to get something JUST WORKING from this code
>base, then say things like, "we need the interface for module xyz
>modified to handle abc", then use our "experimental" site to implement
>and test the improvements?
>  
>
Indeed; much of what we probably believe is a "basic necessity" is 
already coded in Christian's baramala.de code (see the CVS, or the site 
itself).  Christian has already put together code that accepts requests, 
issues certificates, and -- hey, that's the hard part, right? :)

My guess would be that a list of "okay, what's missing" (as in what MUST 
we have RIGHT NOW, not what would we *like* to have eventually) could be 
very useful here... 

> 
>It may take a while, but eventually, the project will creep to where we
>want it to be, then we roll to version 1.0 and make another
>announcement.
>  
>
Creep my ass!  :)

I think we just need to get a feel for how everyone prefers to work, be 
as understanding as we can of each other's outside responsibilities, and 
above all BE PATIENT! 

I regret that I haven't been here to welcome people much at all, and 
this has put far more pressure on Christian than I would have preferred 
-- but four damn hurricanes and some severe water damage to our data 
center had me knocked out for a VERY long time.  I'm told that others 
had family emergencies -- I sincerely hope that everyone's parents, 
significant others, siblings, etc., are all doing much better now...  
Anyway, the point is, we've all had a pretty rough month -- but that's 
no reason to give up!

It's a VERY big world out there; there's a lot of stuff that can get in 
our way (and it will continue to do so as time goes on) but as long as 
we're patient with one another, we can manage this nifty little project 
-- I'm certain of it, or at least I have no plans to tell you all that 
I'm lying NOW!!

AB

> 
>Anyway, that's my $.02
> 
>Chip
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Adam Butler [mailto:ad...@ad...]
>Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:50 AM
>To: Christian Barmala
>Cc: uni...@li...
>Subject: Re: [Unityca-announce] Termination
>
>
>I think this is an unfortunate response...  Personally, I have looked
>thru the documentation on the site and wondered exactly what "todo list"
>was being discussed...  But then there was no real discussion, just
>requests/demands that I select something on a list (I couldn't find) and
>take complete ownership of said item...
>
>Perhaps, before abandoning the project so quickly, Christian, you could
>recognize that there are a lot of documents, RFCs, "architectures,"
>etc., and it's difficult for those of us who didn't write some or all of
>these documents to know immediately what is being asked of us when you
>refer to one part of one specific document that (apparently) I haven't
>read...and I swear I read them all (and emailed you my comments!) not so
>long ago!
>
>Please don't take this as an insult or complaint.  Instead, recognize it
>for what it is: I am (apparently) quite ignorant as to what you want of
>us, and so I understand why you're frustrated (because, being ignorant,
>I probably have NOT done what you've asked for) but I also think I can
>see room for some understanding on your part.  How are we to "take up
>the reigns" and commit to parts of this project when there is no real
>roadmap for doing so...?
>
>Yes, yes -- I recognize that there is indeed a "roadmap" document, as
>well as an "architecture" document, plus goodness knows what else--and
>apparently there is even some code in the CVS repositiory.  But as
>you've said yourself, the majority of people on this list (and the
>majority who have agreed to help) are either *not* entirely technically
>focused, or have entirely other motivations altogether (such as policy
>making, or technical writing...coming up with web sites and/or
>instructions for end-users, etc.).  
>
>And of the technically-minded folk, you have more than a few who have
>said things like "I just got PHP installed and I bought a book on it --
>give me a bit of time to learn how it works."
>
>These people are not worthless, nor are they lazy--far from it!  WHen
>people are willing to pick up a book and learn an entirely new language
>just so they can jump on-board with our project, that's significant
>(imho) and not something we should just ignore in our frustrations that
>they weren't  100% ready to start coding on Day 1.  
>
>Some of these people just need direction.  Perhaps a little
>"higher-level" *and* "lower-level" direction is required here.  
>
>When I started this project, initiated all the forums and mailing lists,
>etc., I really envisioned (perhaps incorrectly?) that we would use this
>forum to *discuss* what needed to be done on both a high level (e.g.
>"our code can issue certificates, but we want it to also do X, Y, Z")
>and a low level (e.g. "those of you working on module foo.php, are you
>running into parsing errors with function bar()?") -- but the discussion
>list (and the forums, for that matter) has remained fairly silent.
>
>The only discussions that seem to have thrived here are when we *did*
>get into technical or policy-related talks, such as the one related to
>language and UTF-8 not so long ago.  (Not surprisingly, this is the
>*exact* type of discussion that thrived on CAcert's mailing list...
>Discussions of "should we do X or Y?" and "how do we fix this problem?"
>often resulted in multiple emails explaining the benefits of one thing
>or another, or even code samples!)
>
>Instead, we seem to be (perhaps unintentionally) using this forum to
>complain about how people aren't using this forum to our liking.  By
>repeatedly telling people that they haven't jumped on board, that they
>haven't taken ownership for an item on a to-do list (which I don't think
>was published on this list, because I'm looking at the archives now and
>I don't see it) ---well, we're not accomplishing much.
>
>But rather than abandon ship, perhaps we should just abandon this
>current methodology?  Maybe we should suggest specific things that need
>to be done, discuss them in a modular fashion (focusing on a part at a
>time) and having both high level discussions (so the policy-minded folks
>can have a say) and low-level discussions (so the coders can be involved
>and keep us grounded in what is "doable" and what is not, ask questions
>about this and that, etc.).
>
>In essence, I wonder if we couldn't use this forum more effectively if
>we simply started asking a few questions about how X, Y, Z should be
>done---get the ball rolling (in any direction, whether it be high level
>or low level), and get people engaged with the discussion.
>
>It seems unrealistic to just announce a new project and get all kinds of
>interest from all kinds of people immediately -- but we did!!  So our
>project idea must be appealing in some form or fashion to the folks
>involved.  With that in mind, maybe we shouldn't be asking "what's wrong
>with these folks, why won't they just work on this now?" and instead,
>maybe we should wonder how we managed to take all of these interested
>folks and deflate their excitement so completely (and quickly)?
>
>This *is* an exciting project.  None of us would be here if we didn't
>think it was important, groundbreaking, and necessary work.  So we have
>the foundation of a good group of people who want to see this thing
>succeed -- my question is then (not just to Christian, but to everyone)
>what do we need to do to get this ball rolling?  
>
>Do we need an outline of some sort?  (God knows I'd love a step-by-step
>list of what we need to do to "get started" so I could better understand
>where the hell we are and what we need to do...  Anyone else?)  Do we
>need to take some of the documents (which christian spent a LOT of time
>on and are VERY valuable) and distill them down into something a bit
>more short-term...?  Perhaps if we had reasonable goals ahead of us,
>tasks that could be completed in days or weeks instead of months...  I
>don't know.
>
>It's up to you guys.  Let's hear some voices here.  I admit to being
>silent a bit (because I didn't want to show my ignorance in that UTF-8
>discusssion!) but I want this project to succeed as much as the rest of
>us...  So what is holding us back?
>
>Leadership?  A good plan?  A more specific, but shorter-term roadmap?  A
>list of modules, what we want them to do, and what their statuses are?
>
>What would allow YOU (whether you're a tech writer, a web designer, or a
>coder) to start contributing in the way you first imagined?  What's
>holding you back?  
>
>Let us know, and maybe we can remove some of those obstacles -- rather
>than just cursing the darkness, perhaps we can turn on a light or two.
>:)
>
>Thanks for all of you, your thoughts/suggestions up to now, and your
>willingness to move forward.  We can do this, and we want to help make
>it happen, but we need your help to shape the direction we move in.
>
>I look forward to hearing from you--as I'm sure Christian does, too.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Adam
>
>Christian Barmala wrote:
>
>
>Hi,
>
>
>
>When I asked you, who is interested in this project, several project
>members
>
>didn't reply at all. From those who replied, the majority explained,
>that
>
>they currently have no time to support the project. From those who had
>time,
>
>the majority explained that they were not programmers. Those who
>remained,
>
>subscribed to the developers list but until now, nobody volunteered for
>any
>
>of the @todos of the software.
>
>
>
>This sad calculation reminds me to the difference between the topmost
>line
>
>of my salary slip and what remains in my bank account after all payments
>
>have been deduced. I understand that this loss seems to be a rule of
>life,
>
>but then let's be honest and admit that we aren't able to run a project.
>
>
>
>I therefore consider the cooperation for software development as failed.
>
>I'll withdraw from Unityca and do the development on my own based on my
>own
>
>needs. If you should continue with Unityca one day and extend my
>software to
>
>fit your needs, you may do this on your own, based on the GPL license.
>
>
>
>This is sad, but still better than pretending to cooperate and thus
>raise
>
>mutual expectations, which won't be fulfilled.
>
>
>
>Christian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>
>This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal
>
>Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give
>us
>
>Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out
>more
>
>http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl
><http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl> 
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Unityca-announce mailing list
>
>Uni...@li...
><mailto:Uni...@li...> 
>
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/unityca-announce
><https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/unityca-announce> 
>
>  
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal
>Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us
>Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more
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>_______________________________________________
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>Uni...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/unityca-announce
>  
>

RE: [Unityca-announce] Termination

[Chip S. <ch...@sh...>]

I fully agree.  As one of the non-technical people, there is a lot I can
do, but unfortunately coding isn't my strong suit.
=20
If we had small, interim steps that people could see a roadmap, vision
and progress, that would probably allow others to jump in where they
could.  there are two ways to go about a project like this, one is to
have a perfect product, engineered to death, and miss the market.  The
other is to introduce a basic, limited, maybe even barely functional
product, but get interest from both users and coders that can help.
=20
MY opinion, is that the latter is more effective.  If we could create
something quick and dirty, that may WORK but isn't elegant, and put it
on a website for others to experiment with, that would create interest
and excitement both within our group as well as draw more and more
people in to help the project.
=20
I understand much of what Christian originally wrote may be hard coded,
but wouldn't it be easier to get something JUST WORKING from this code
base, then say things like, "we need the interface for module xyz
modified to handle abc", then use our "experimental" site to implement
and test the improvements?
=20
It may take a while, but eventually, the project will creep to where we
want it to be, then we roll to version 1.0 and make another
announcement.
=20
Anyway, that's my $.02
=20
Chip

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Butler [mailto:ad...@ad...]
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:50 AM
To: Christian Barmala
Cc: uni...@li...
Subject: Re: [Unityca-announce] Termination


I think this is an unfortunate response...  Personally, I have looked
thru the documentation on the site and wondered exactly what "todo list"
was being discussed...  But then there was no real discussion, just
requests/demands that I select something on a list (I couldn't find) and
take complete ownership of said item...

Perhaps, before abandoning the project so quickly, Christian, you could
recognize that there are a lot of documents, RFCs, "architectures,"
etc., and it's difficult for those of us who didn't write some or all of
these documents to know immediately what is being asked of us when you
refer to one part of one specific document that (apparently) I haven't
read...and I swear I read them all (and emailed you my comments!) not so
long ago!

Please don't take this as an insult or complaint.  Instead, recognize it
for what it is: I am (apparently) quite ignorant as to what you want of
us, and so I understand why you're frustrated (because, being ignorant,
I probably have NOT done what you've asked for) but I also think I can
see room for some understanding on your part.  How are we to "take up
the reigns" and commit to parts of this project when there is no real
roadmap for doing so...?

Yes, yes -- I recognize that there is indeed a "roadmap" document, as
well as an "architecture" document, plus goodness knows what else--and
apparently there is even some code in the CVS repositiory.  But as
you've said yourself, the majority of people on this list (and the
majority who have agreed to help) are either *not* entirely technically
focused, or have entirely other motivations altogether (such as policy
making, or technical writing...coming up with web sites and/or
instructions for end-users, etc.). =20

And of the technically-minded folk, you have more than a few who have
said things like "I just got PHP installed and I bought a book on it --
give me a bit of time to learn how it works."

These people are not worthless, nor are they lazy--far from it!  WHen
people are willing to pick up a book and learn an entirely new language
just so they can jump on-board with our project, that's significant
(imho) and not something we should just ignore in our frustrations that
they weren't  100% ready to start coding on Day 1. =20

Some of these people just need direction.  Perhaps a little
"higher-level" *and* "lower-level" direction is required here. =20

When I started this project, initiated all the forums and mailing lists,
etc., I really envisioned (perhaps incorrectly?) that we would use this
forum to *discuss* what needed to be done on both a high level (e.g.
"our code can issue certificates, but we want it to also do X, Y, Z")
and a low level (e.g. "those of you working on module foo.php, are you
running into parsing errors with function bar()?") -- but the discussion
list (and the forums, for that matter) has remained fairly silent.

The only discussions that seem to have thrived here are when we *did*
get into technical or policy-related talks, such as the one related to
language and UTF-8 not so long ago.  (Not surprisingly, this is the
*exact* type of discussion that thrived on CAcert's mailing list...
Discussions of "should we do X or Y?" and "how do we fix this problem?"
often resulted in multiple emails explaining the benefits of one thing
or another, or even code samples!)

Instead, we seem to be (perhaps unintentionally) using this forum to
complain about how people aren't using this forum to our liking.  By
repeatedly telling people that they haven't jumped on board, that they
haven't taken ownership for an item on a to-do list (which I don't think
was published on this list, because I'm looking at the archives now and
I don't see it) ---well, we're not accomplishing much.

But rather than abandon ship, perhaps we should just abandon this
current methodology?  Maybe we should suggest specific things that need
to be done, discuss them in a modular fashion (focusing on a part at a
time) and having both high level discussions (so the policy-minded folks
can have a say) and low-level discussions (so the coders can be involved
and keep us grounded in what is "doable" and what is not, ask questions
about this and that, etc.).

In essence, I wonder if we couldn't use this forum more effectively if
we simply started asking a few questions about how X, Y, Z should be
done---get the ball rolling (in any direction, whether it be high level
or low level), and get people engaged with the discussion.

It seems unrealistic to just announce a new project and get all kinds of
interest from all kinds of people immediately -- but we did!!  So our
project idea must be appealing in some form or fashion to the folks
involved.  With that in mind, maybe we shouldn't be asking "what's wrong
with these folks, why won't they just work on this now?" and instead,
maybe we should wonder how we managed to take all of these interested
folks and deflate their excitement so completely (and quickly)?

This *is* an exciting project.  None of us would be here if we didn't
think it was important, groundbreaking, and necessary work.  So we have
the foundation of a good group of people who want to see this thing
succeed -- my question is then (not just to Christian, but to everyone)
what do we need to do to get this ball rolling? =20

Do we need an outline of some sort?  (God knows I'd love a step-by-step
list of what we need to do to "get started" so I could better understand
where the hell we are and what we need to do...  Anyone else?)  Do we
need to take some of the documents (which christian spent a LOT of time
on and are VERY valuable) and distill them down into something a bit
more short-term...?  Perhaps if we had reasonable goals ahead of us,
tasks that could be completed in days or weeks instead of months...  I
don't know.

It's up to you guys.  Let's hear some voices here.  I admit to being
silent a bit (because I didn't want to show my ignorance in that UTF-8
discusssion!) but I want this project to succeed as much as the rest of
us...  So what is holding us back?

Leadership?  A good plan?  A more specific, but shorter-term roadmap?  A
list of modules, what we want them to do, and what their statuses are?

What would allow YOU (whether you're a tech writer, a web designer, or a
coder) to start contributing in the way you first imagined?  What's
holding you back? =20

Let us know, and maybe we can remove some of those obstacles -- rather
than just cursing the darkness, perhaps we can turn on a light or two.
:)

Thanks for all of you, your thoughts/suggestions up to now, and your
willingness to move forward.  We can do this, and we want to help make
it happen, but we need your help to shape the direction we move in.

I look forward to hearing from you--as I'm sure Christian does, too.

Thanks,

Adam

Christian Barmala wrote:


Hi,



When I asked you, who is interested in this project, several project
members

didn't reply at all. From those who replied, the majority explained,
that

they currently have no time to support the project. From those who had
time,

the majority explained that they were not programmers. Those who
remained,

subscribed to the developers list but until now, nobody volunteered for
any

of the @todos of the software.



This sad calculation reminds me to the difference between the topmost
line

of my salary slip and what remains in my bank account after all payments

have been deduced. I understand that this loss seems to be a rule of
life,

but then let's be honest and admit that we aren't able to run a project.



I therefore consider the cooperation for software development as failed.

I'll withdraw from Unityca and do the development on my own based on my
own

needs. If you should continue with Unityca one day and extend my
software to

fit your needs, you may do this on your own, based on the GPL license.



This is sad, but still better than pretending to cooperate and thus
raise

mutual expectations, which won't be fulfilled.



Christian







-------------------------------------------------------

This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal

Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give
us

Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out
more

http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl
<http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl>=20

_______________________________________________

Unityca-announce mailing list

Uni...@li...
<mailto:Uni...@li...>=20

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/unityca-announce
<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/unityca-announce>=20

 =20

Re: [Unityca-announce] Termination

[Adam B. <ad...@ad...>]

I think this is an unfortunate response...  Personally, I have looked 
thru the documentation on the site and wondered exactly what "todo list" 
was being discussed...  But then there was no real discussion, just 
requests/demands that I select something on a list (I couldn't find) and 
take complete ownership of said item...

Perhaps, before abandoning the project so quickly, Christian, you could 
recognize that there are a lot of documents, RFCs, "architectures," 
etc., and it's difficult for those of us who didn't write some or all of 
these documents to know immediately what is being asked of us when you 
refer to one part of one specific document that (apparently) I haven't 
read...and I swear I read them all (and emailed you my comments!) not so 
long ago!

Please don't take this as an insult or complaint.  Instead, recognize it 
for what it is: I am (apparently) quite ignorant as to what you want of 
us, and so I understand why you're frustrated (because, being ignorant, 
I probably have NOT done what you've asked for) but I also think I can 
see room for some understanding on your part.  How are we to "take up 
the reigns" and commit to parts of this project when there is no real 
roadmap for doing so...?

Yes, yes -- I recognize that there is indeed a "roadmap" document, as 
well as an "architecture" document, plus goodness knows what else--and 
apparently there is even some code in the CVS repositiory.  But as 
you've said yourself, the majority of people on this list (and the 
majority who have agreed to help) are either *not* entirely technically 
focused, or have entirely other motivations altogether (such as policy 
making, or technical writing...coming up with web sites and/or 
instructions for end-users, etc.). 

And of the technically-minded folk, you have more than a few who have 
said things like "I just got PHP installed and I bought a book on it -- 
give me a bit of time to learn how it works."

These people are not worthless, nor are they lazy--far from it!  WHen 
people are willing to pick up a book and learn an entirely new language 
just so they can jump on-board with our project, that's significant 
(imho) and not something we should just ignore in our frustrations that 
they weren't  100% ready to start coding on Day 1. 

Some of these people just need direction.  Perhaps a little 
"higher-level" *and* "lower-level" direction is required here. 

When I started this project, initiated all the forums and mailing lists, 
etc., I really envisioned (perhaps incorrectly?) that we would use this 
forum to *discuss* what needed to be done on both a high level (e.g. 
"our code can issue certificates, but we want it to also do X, Y, Z") 
and a low level (e.g. "those of you working on module foo.php, are you 
running into parsing errors with function bar()?") -- but the discussion 
list (and the forums, for that matter) has remained fairly silent.

The only discussions that seem to have thrived here are when we *did* 
get into technical or policy-related talks, such as the one related to 
language and UTF-8 not so long ago.  (Not surprisingly, this is the 
*exact* type of discussion that thrived on CAcert's mailing list...  
Discussions of "should we do X or Y?" and "how do we fix this problem?" 
often resulted in multiple emails explaining the benefits of one thing 
or another, or even code samples!)

Instead, we seem to be (perhaps unintentionally) using this forum to 
complain about how people aren't using this forum to our liking.  By 
repeatedly telling people that they haven't jumped on board, that they 
haven't taken ownership for an item on a to-do list (which I don't think 
was published on this list, because I'm looking at the archives now and 
I don't see it) ---well, we're not accomplishing much.

But rather than abandon ship, perhaps we should just abandon this 
current methodology?  Maybe we should suggest specific things that need 
to be done, discuss them in a modular fashion (focusing on a part at a 
time) and having both high level discussions (so the policy-minded folks 
can have a say) and low-level discussions (so the coders can be involved 
and keep us grounded in what is "doable" and what is not, ask questions 
about this and that, etc.).

In essence, I wonder if we couldn't use this forum more effectively if 
we simply started asking a few questions about how X, Y, Z should be 
done---get the ball rolling (in any direction, whether it be high level 
or low level), and get people engaged with the discussion.

It seems unrealistic to just announce a new project and get all kinds of 
interest from all kinds of people immediately -- but we did!!  So our 
project idea must be appealing in some form or fashion to the folks 
involved.  With that in mind, maybe we shouldn't be asking "what's wrong 
with these folks, why won't they just work on this now?" and instead, 
maybe we should wonder how we managed to take all of these interested 
folks and deflate their excitement so completely (and quickly)?

This *is* an exciting project.  None of us would be here if we didn't 
think it was important, groundbreaking, and necessary work.  So we have 
the foundation of a good group of people who want to see this thing 
succeed -- my question is then (not just to Christian, but to everyone) 
what do we need to do to get this ball rolling? 

Do we need an outline of some sort?  (God knows I'd love a step-by-step 
list of what we need to do to "get started" so I could better understand 
where the hell we are and what we need to do...  Anyone else?)  Do we 
need to take some of the documents (which christian spent a LOT of time 
on and are VERY valuable) and distill them down into something a bit 
more short-term...?  Perhaps if we had reasonable goals ahead of us, 
tasks that could be completed in days or weeks instead of months...  I 
don't know.

It's up to you guys.  Let's hear some voices here.  I admit to being 
silent a bit (because I didn't want to show my ignorance in that UTF-8 
discusssion!) but I want this project to succeed as much as the rest of 
us...  So what is holding us back?

Leadership?  A good plan?  A more specific, but shorter-term roadmap?  A 
list of modules, what we want them to do, and what their statuses are?

What would allow YOU (whether you're a tech writer, a web designer, or a 
coder) to start contributing in the way you first imagined?  What's 
holding you back? 

Let us know, and maybe we can remove some of those obstacles -- rather 
than just cursing the darkness, perhaps we can turn on a light or two. :)

Thanks for all of you, your thoughts/suggestions up to now, and your 
willingness to move forward.  We can do this, and we want to help make 
it happen, but we need your help to shape the direction we move in.

I look forward to hearing from you--as I'm sure Christian does, too.

Thanks,

Adam

Christian Barmala wrote:

>Hi,
>
>When I asked you, who is interested in this project, several project members
>didn't reply at all. From those who replied, the majority explained, that
>they currently have no time to support the project. From those who had time,
>the majority explained that they were not programmers. Those who remained,
>subscribed to the developers list but until now, nobody volunteered for any
>of the @todos of the software.
>
>This sad calculation reminds me to the difference between the topmost line
>of my salary slip and what remains in my bank account after all payments
>have been deduced. I understand that this loss seems to be a rule of life,
>but then let's be honest and admit that we aren't able to run a project.
>
>I therefore consider the cooperation for software development as failed.
>I'll withdraw from Unityca and do the development on my own based on my own
>needs. If you should continue with Unityca one day and extend my software to
>fit your needs, you may do this on your own, based on the GPL license.
>
>This is sad, but still better than pretending to cooperate and thus raise
>mutual expectations, which won't be fulfilled.
>
>Christian
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal
>Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us
>Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more
>http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl
>_______________________________________________
>Unityca-announce mailing list
>Uni...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/unityca-announce
>  
>

[Unityca-announce] Termination

[Christian B. <chr...@gm...>]

Hi,

When I asked you, who is interested in this project, several project members
didn't reply at all. From those who replied, the majority explained, that
they currently have no time to support the project. From those who had time,
the majority explained that they were not programmers. Those who remained,
subscribed to the developers list but until now, nobody volunteered for any
of the @todos of the software.

This sad calculation reminds me to the difference between the topmost line
of my salary slip and what remains in my bank account after all payments
have been deduced. I understand that this loss seems to be a rule of life,
but then let's be honest and admit that we aren't able to run a project.

I therefore consider the cooperation for software development as failed.
I'll withdraw from Unityca and do the development on my own based on my own
needs. If you should continue with Unityca one day and extend my software to
fit your needs, you may do this on your own, based on the GPL license.

This is sad, but still better than pretending to cooperate and thus raise
mutual expectations, which won't be fulfilled.

Christian

Re: [Unityca-announce] Is anyone still interested in this project?

[Parag M. <pm...@li...>]

Hi Christian

I am still around and ready to help... already started learning PHP.. i 
should be able to start helping in coding in the next one month or so.. 
till then i will continue helping in website maintainence

~Parag
Christian Barmala said the following on 9/16/2004 11:51 PM:
> Hi,
> 
> I did'nt get any feedback so far. Is this list broken? Is no one anymore
> interested in this project?
> 
> Christian
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by: YOU BE THE JUDGE. Be one of 170
> Project Admins to receive an Apple iPod Mini FREE for your judgement on
> who ports your project to Linux PPC the best. Sponsored by IBM.
> Deadline: Sept. 24. Go here: http://sf.net/ppc_contest.php
> _______________________________________________
> Unityca-announce mailing list
> Uni...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/unityca-announce
> 

[Unityca-announce] RE: Is anyone still interested in this project?

[Michael K. A. <mic...@on...>]

I'm interested and will try to help out where I can.

At 08:58 PM 9/18/2004, you wrote:

>Message: 1
>Reply-To: <an...@a-...>
>From: "Andreas Schroeder" <an...@a-...>
>To: <uni...@li...>
>Subject: RE: [Unityca-announce] Is anyone still interested in this project?
>Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 10:16:30 +0200
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C49D68.8FF87180
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>         charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Hi,
>
>the list doesn't seem to be broken. I can receive posted mails. And yes, I
>am still interested in this project.
>
>Andreas
>--
>.------- -  -                                        - -.
>| Andreas Schroeder   an...@a-...   www.a-netz.de |
>|-------------------------------------------------------|
>| Use free certificates to secure your Mails!           |
>| See www.cacert.org or www.thawte.com for info.        |
>'- -                                         -  - ------'
>

Re: [Unityca-announce] Is anyone still interested in this project?

[Greg B. <gj...@gb...>]

On 2004-09-17, Christian Barmala wrote:

> I did'nt get any feedback so far. Is this list broken? Is no one anymore
> interested in this project?

I'm still interested, but -- as I told you earlier -- I'm not in
a position to do any actual work for some months.

I will keep an eye on what happens in the meantime and will try
to contribute when my current commitments are completed.

Greg

Re: [Unityca-announce] Is anyone still interested in this project?

[Henk de B. <hen...@wa...>]

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:58:01 +0200GMT (17-9-2004, 11:58 +0100, where I
live), I wrote:

HdB> On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 08:51:44 +0200GMT (17-9-2004, 8:51 +0100, where I
HdB> live), Christian wrote:

>> I did'nt get any feedback so far. Is this list broken? Is no one anymore
>> interested in this project?

HdB> I am still around ;-)

Can=B4t help with the coding either. However, the name unityca does not
cause butterflies in my stomach :-) Is it allowed to come up with
another name, or two?
;-)

--=20
cheers,
Henk
______________________________________________________________________
The Bat! Natural Email System (tm) v3.0.0.15nl Pro on Windows XP SP2
PGPkey request: see headers or send email with subj.: send HenksKeyID
Gossamer Spider Web of Trust http://gswot.webhop.info/

RE: [Unityca-announce] Is anyone still interested in this project?

[Andreas S. <an...@a-...>]

Hi, 

the list doesn't seem to be broken. I can receive posted mails. And yes, I
am still interested in this project. 

Andreas
--
.------- -  -                                        - -.
| Andreas Schroeder   an...@a-...   www.a-netz.de |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| Use free certificates to secure your Mails!           |
| See www.cacert.org or www.thawte.com for info.        |
'- -                                         -  - ------'

RE: [Unityca-announce] Is anyone still interested in this project?

[Chip S. <ch...@sh...>]

I'm here, just can't help with the coding :-(

Chip


-----Original Message-----
From:	Christian Barmala
Sent:	Thu 9/16/2004 11:51 PM
To:	uni...@li...
Cc:=09
Subject:	[Unityca-announce] Is anyone still interested in this
project?
Hi,

I did'nt get any feedback so far. Is this list broken? Is no one anymore
interested in this project?

Christian



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Re: [Unityca-announce] Is anyone still interested in this project?

[Henk de B. <hen...@wa...>]

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 08:51:44 +0200GMT (17-9-2004, 8:51 +0100, where I
live), Christian wrote:

> I did'nt get any feedback so far. Is this list broken? Is no one anymore
> interested in this project?

I am still around ;-)

--=20
Henk
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[Unityca-announce] Is anyone still interested in this project?

[Christian B. <chr...@gm...>]

Hi,

I did'nt get any feedback so far. Is this list broken? Is no one anymore
interested in this project?

Christian

Re: [Unityca-announce] UnityCA mailing lists (unityca-developers)

[Adam B. <ad...@ad...>]

Christian,

Thanks for heading this up -- so far the work seems to be going great 
(and I'm glad you're finding your way around SF nicely).

I apologize that I've been absent so much recently but Hurricane Ivan 
(the silly name given to the storm now creeping its way up the 
southeastern US) is causing a ridiculous number of problems with 
families having to evacuate et al.

(My immediate family is no where near the coast, but we have friends and 
extended family members who are...so we've been having to help them with 
finding accomodations and boarding up their homes, stuff like that.)

Anyway, I'll be back in the 'real world' so we can talk hopefully before 
too long...supposedly the storm will subside in a few days(?) but we'll see.

Anyway, thanks again for all your hard work thus far (especially for 
pulling everyone onto the mailing list!) and I'll talk more with you soon.

AB

Christian Barmala wrote:

> Hi,
>
> you subscribed to unityca-announce mailing list but only Adam and 
> Andreas subscribed to unityca-developers. If you want to help us with 
> coding, please join this list too.
>
> I suggest we discusse general and policy related issues in announce 
> (or a yet to be configured list) and technical issues like "who will 
> upload which code to the cvs" or "should this method be a private or 
> public" in developers.
>
> Regarding development: I didn't get any feed-back except from Andreas. 
> Does
> this mean "no news is good news" and you fully agree with everything I 
> do?
>
> I'm quite sure there are many routines in the code, which require 
> explanations, so feel free to ask. If you should have missed my
> previous posting, read 
> https://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=5536854&forum_id=42189. 
>
>
> Philipp told me he was surprized how few files are in the CVS: The 
> idea was
> not that I build a complete system and you evaluate it, but WE build this
> system. I can contribute many pieces of code from my old system, but they
> need some adaption because I hardcoded many items, while you may have 
> seen
> that currently one of the largest components is the configurator. If you
> have questions or opinions about this, let's discuss them in developers.
>
> Christian
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by: YOU BE THE JUDGE. Be one of 170
> Project Admins to receive an Apple iPod Mini FREE for your judgement on
> who ports your project to Linux PPC the best. Sponsored by IBM. 
> Deadline: Sept. 13. Go here: http://sf.net/ppc_contest.php
> _______________________________________________
> Unityca-announce mailing list
> Uni...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/unityca-announce

[Unityca-announce] UnityCA mailing lists (unityca-developers)

[Christian B. <chr...@ba...>]

Hi,

you subscribed to unityca-announce mailing list but only Adam and Andreas 
subscribed to unityca-developers. If you want to help us with coding, please 
join this list too.

I suggest we discusse general and policy related issues in announce (or a 
yet to be configured list) and technical issues like "who will upload which 
code to the cvs" or "should this method be a private or public" in 
developers.

Regarding development: I didn't get any feed-back except from Andreas. Does
this mean "no news is good news" and you fully agree with everything I do?

I'm quite sure there are many routines in the code, which require 
explanations, so feel free to ask. If you should have missed my
previous posting, read 
https://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=5536854&forum_id=42189.

Philipp told me he was surprized how few files are in the CVS: The idea was
not that I build a complete system and you evaluate it, but WE build this
system. I can contribute many pieces of code from my old system, but they
need some adaption because I hardcoded many items, while you may have seen
that currently one of the largest components is the configurator. If you
have questions or opinions about this, let's discuss them in developers.

Christian 

[Unityca-announce] subscribed to the mailinglist

[Henk de B. <hen...@wa...>]

Hallo unityca-announce

I subscribed to the mailinglist. However not being a developper nor
programmer I am asking myself whether my subscribtion has an added
value or not.

-- 
cheers,
Henk.
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