Thread: [Tuxpaint-devel] Animation
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From: <tor...@at...> - 2006-09-07 11:53:57
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Hi! I see that the next version will include a slide show function that can be used for simple animation. I'm curious to what degree you wish to expand the animation capabilities of Tux Paint in the future. I'm thinking along the lines of inserting sound along with the picture (change to next picture when the audio is done), maybe layers so that background, people and foreground can be independent and the people moved around more easily between each time you save (layers should probably be possible to disable in the config program), and maybe other stuff? Animation is fun! :-) Kind regards, Tore |
From: Albert C. <aca...@gm...> - 2006-09-07 15:30:22
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On 9/7/06, "Tore B. J=F8rgensen" <tor...@at...> wrote: > I see that the next version will include a slide show function that can > be used for simple animation. I'm curious to what degree you wish to > expand the animation capabilities of Tux Paint in the future. I'm > thinking along the lines of inserting sound along with the picture > (change to next picture when the audio is done), maybe layers so that > background, people and foreground can be independent and the people > moved around more easily between each time you save (layers should > probably be possible to disable in the config program), and maybe other > stuff? Animation is fun! :-) Uh oh. Maybe the slide show was a big mistake. It sounds like you are ready for something more advanced than a paint program for little kids. Layers are hard to use. If you want layers and such, please use one of these: gimp Xara Xtreme Inkscape Blender krita OpenOffice.org Draw KToon POV-Ray That list includes bitmap, vector, and 3D. Some of those have strong built-in support for making video, gif, or flash animations. Anything done in SVG, besides being convertable to video via bitmaps, may be animated with JavaScript. More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Free_graphics_software BTW, POV-Ray is good for learning geometry. |
From: <tor...@at...> - 2006-09-07 19:24:06
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Quoting Albert Cahalan <aca...@gm...>: > Uh oh. Maybe the slide show was a big mistake. > > It sounds like you are ready for something more advanced > than a paint program for little kids. Layers are hard to use. > If you want layers and such, please use one of these: No! I am thinking about simple animation for small kids. Maybe layers will be a mistake. It was just the first solution I thought of to move stuff around. The kindergarden where my son is was looking for a paint/image editing/simple animation program for the oldest kids (5 years). They can master simple slide show animation (at least with a little bit of help), but a animation program with tweens, timeline and so on will be to advanced. Maybe layers will be as well. My son is still to young to have played much with the computer, so I still don't know what he will find easy and not. What do you think about inserting sound together with the slide show and go to the next image when the sound is done? Kind regards, Tore ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. |
From: Albert C. <aca...@gm...> - 2006-09-08 02:54:07
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On 9/7/06, tor...@at... <tor...@at...> wrote: > Quoting Albert Cahalan <aca...@gm...>: > > Uh oh. Maybe the slide show was a big mistake. > > > > It sounds like you are ready for something more advanced > > than a paint program for little kids. Layers are hard to use. > > If you want layers and such, please use one of these: > > No! I am thinking about simple animation for small kids. Maybe layers > will be a > mistake. It was just the first solution I thought of to move stuff around. The > kindergarden where my son is was looking for a paint/image editing/simple > animation program for the oldest kids (5 years). They can master simple slide > show animation (at least with a little bit of help), but a animation program > with tweens, timeline and so on will be to advanced. Maybe layers will be as > well. My son is still to young to have played much with the computer, so I > still don't know what he will find easy and not. What do you think about > inserting sound together with the slide show and go to the next image when the > sound is done? I think this is seriously inappropriate for the age group. You won't be getting tolerable results without a very complex GUI, a scripting language, or making the user do an extremely insane amount of work redrawing things. I'd start with a polygon-based animation system at age 10, or POV-Ray at age 12. Tux Paint may be too complex already, both in the GUI and in the code. |
From: Bill K. <nb...@so...> - 2006-09-10 18:39:17
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On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 09:23:59PM +0200, tor...@at... wrote: > My son is still to young to have played much with the computer, so I > still don't know what he will find easy and not. My son (we think) isn't born yet. So it'll be at LEAST 3 years before he can use Tux Paint. So feedback from parents and teachers are always welcome! I've honestly had VERY few occasions to sit and watch kids use Tux Paint. Often, it was in a public setting (like a hands-on Linux demo at a bigger event), so I'm usually witnessing multiple kids argue over who gets to use it. That's certainly one thing to keep in mind (how multiple kids react together when they're trying to use Tux Paint), but it doesn't help me understand how ONE child uses it. I'd love to do some professional usability studies. :^) I have many friends at UC Davis in California, and many friends in the Linux community (including usability/accessibility people). I think it's about time I start asking around for more help. ;^) -- -bill! bi...@ne... http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ |
From: Bill K. <nb...@so...> - 2006-09-10 18:35:53
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On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 01:54:01PM +0200, "Tore B. J=F8rgensen" wrote: > Hi! > I see that the next version will include a slide show function that can= =20 > be used for simple animation. Correct! :) > I'm curious to what degree you wish to expand the animation capabilitie= s > of Tux Paint in the future. I wasn't planning on adding much. If I had my way, I would develop a separate animation tool (which would integrate with Tux Paint, to pull 'sprites' and backgrounds). > I'm thinking along the lines of inserting sound along with the picture=20 > (change to next picture when the audio is done), This is certainly a great idea. Unfortunately, there are two problems with this: (1) SDL doesn't currently have a sound input API, only output. Work has been done by numerous people to add this, but I think it's only just being included (SDL 1.3?) I remember someone from Jim Hens= on's Creature Shop posted one back in 2002, for example. (2) There'll need to be a user interface for attaching sounds to pictures. Would it be when you save pictures? If so, would you need to play th= at sound every time the user loads the picture? Can they change it afte= r loading, and before saving? Will it prompt for overwriting an old so= und? Should it have Play and Record buttons for sounds? #1 is a showstopper. #2 simply needs to be talked about and designed, before I go to implement= it. For, though: baby steps. Let me get the basic slideshow option out the door and see what teachers think about it. I don't want to paint myself into a corner (no pun intended ;^) ). > maybe layers so that background, people and foreground can be independe= nt > and the people moved around more easily between each time you save > (layers should probably be possible to disable in the config program), Layers is WAY beyond the scope of Tux Paint, unfortunately. I certainly = have wished for it in the past, since it would simplify things like editing/mo= ving stamps and text once they've been placed, but even with more professional apps like The GIMP, once you _do_ something to a text layer, you can no l= onger edit the text! > and maybe other stuff? Animation is fun! :-) Yeah, it is. I don't want to bloat Tux Paint much more than it already has bloated. ;^) (I'd love to be 'finished' with it some day, but that's obviously never going to happen :^) ) Also keep in mind that Tux Paint is meant for kids a young as 3 years old. It's already complicated enough. And while I agree that more options can be thrown into Tux Paint Config, not everyone looks there. If Tux Paint, out of the box, is too hard for a little kid to understand, then parents and teachers won't like it... even though there are options they can set. I have a feeling most people don't look at Tux Paint Config, or the documentation... That's how software is. People are busy, they want it NOW, and they just want it to Work Right(tm). :) --=20 -bill! bi...@ne... http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ |
From: <tor...@at...> - 2006-09-15 12:14:33
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Bill Kendrick skrev: > On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 09:54:51AM +0200, "Tore B. J=F8rgensen" wrote: > =20 >> Just a warning... If you add sound, the next thing would be a separate= =20 >> player program so the teacher/parent >> could help the child wrap up the slideshow and send it to=20 >> parents/grandparents/... ;-) >> =20 > > Heh... yeaaaah. > > One thing we could possible do is somehow convince Tux Paint to save th= e > slides as a looping animated GIF. They'd be big, and color quality wou= ld > suck. And we'd have to figure out where to save them. It would be mor= e > of an 'export', since Tux Paint wouldn't be able to load animated GIFs = as > slides. > > Ugh. :) > =20 I meant the part about the player partly as a joke, but if sound is=20 added and it's decided to make some kind of playable animation to send=20 to relatives, I'm sure we'll be able to come up with something better=20 than animated gif (which as far as I know doesn't support sound) ;-).=20 And I'm not sure if it should be part of Tux Paint, or rather be a=20 support program so it doesn't interfere with the easy to use inteface of=20 Tux Paint. BTW, will there be a binary distribution for Windows of the release=20 candidates? Kind regards, Tore |
From: Bill K. <nb...@so...> - 2006-09-15 17:00:18
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On Fri, Sep 15, 2006 at 02:14:26PM +0200, "Tore B. J=F8rgensen" wrote: > BTW, will there be a binary distribution for Windows of the release=20 > candidates? John has a few more things to package up, so hopefully in the next few days, yes. No idea about OS X :^( -bill! bi...@ne... http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ |
From: <tor...@at...> - 2006-09-11 07:54:55
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Bill Kendrick skrev: > I wasn't planning on adding much. If I had my way, I would develop > a separate animation tool (which would integrate with Tux Paint, to pull > 'sprites' and backgrounds). > Just a warning... If you add sound, the next thing would be a separate player program so the teacher/parent could help the child wrap up the slideshow and send it to parents/grandparents/... ;-) >> I'm thinking along the lines of inserting sound along with the picture >> (change to next picture when the audio is done), >> > > This is certainly a great idea. Unfortunately, there are two problems > with this: > > (1) SDL doesn't currently have a sound input API, only output. > Work has been done by numerous people to add this, but I think it's > only just being included (SDL 1.3?) I remember someone from Jim Henson's > Creature Shop posted one back in 2002, for example. > > (2) There'll need to be a user interface for attaching sounds to pictures. > Would it be when you save pictures? If so, would you need to play that > sound every time the user loads the picture? Can they change it after > loading, and before saving? Will it prompt for overwriting an old sound? > Should it have Play and Record buttons for sounds? > > #1 is a showstopper. > #2 simply needs to be talked about and designed, before I go to implement it. > > For, though: baby steps. Let me get the basic slideshow option out the > door and see what teachers think about it. I don't want to paint myself > into a corner (no pun intended ;^) ). > If you decide to look into sound, a first step (or second, after a hopefully positive response on slideshow :-) ) could be to let the teacher include sound with starter images. A sound included with a starter image should (to be consistent with the starter image logic) not be possible to alter, so no sound interface is required. It could play when you create a new image, maybe every time a image based on the starter image is opened, and definitely every time a image based on a starter image is played as part of a slide show. That way it would be possible to create a set of starter images with a story and the children would be able to create a story book kind of movie without having to do an insane amount of work. And if anybody doubt that children want to make movies: My son (3 years) noticed the text when the movies end and asked what it was. I told him it was the names of the people that created the movie. Since then he has a couple of times asked in the middle of cartoons: "Did somebody make this?" When I answer yes, he reply "We didn't?". I've promised him that we'll make a movie, but that will be with him as an actor and some of his toy animals coming to life :-) Kind regards, Tore |
From: Karl O. H. <ka...@hu...> - 2006-09-17 17:33:21
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Torsdag 14 september 2006 20:08 skreiv Bill Kendrick: >One thing we could possible do is somehow convince Tux Paint to save the >slides as a looping animated GIF. =A0They'd be big, and color quality would >suck. Not a good idea, then, eh? ;) =2D-=20 Mvh. Karl Ove Hufthammer http://blogg.huftis.org/ E-post og Jabber: ka...@hu... |
From: Bill K. <nb...@so...> - 2006-09-14 18:08:40
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On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 09:54:51AM +0200, "Tore B. J=F8rgensen" wrote: > Just a warning... If you add sound, the next thing would be a separate=20 > player program so the teacher/parent > could help the child wrap up the slideshow and send it to=20 > parents/grandparents/... ;-) Heh... yeaaaah. One thing we could possible do is somehow convince Tux Paint to save the slides as a looping animated GIF. They'd be big, and color quality would suck. And we'd have to figure out where to save them. It would be more of an 'export', since Tux Paint wouldn't be able to load animated GIFs as slides. Ugh. :) <snip> > And if anybody doubt that children want to make movies: My son (3 years= )=20 > noticed the text when the movies end and asked what it was. I told him=20 > it was the names of the people that created the movie. Since then he ha= s=20 > a couple of times asked in the middle of cartoons: "Did somebody make=20 > this?" When I answer yes, he reply "We didn't?". I've promised him that= =20 > we'll make a movie, but that will be with him as an actor and some of=20 > his toy animals coming to life :-) Hehe ;) -bill! bi...@ne... http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ |
From: Karl O. H. <ka...@hu...> - 2006-09-17 17:32:26
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Torsdag 07 september 2006 21:23 skreiv tor...@at...: >No! I am thinking about simple animation for small kids. Maybe layers >will be a mistake. It was just the first solution I thought of to move stu= ff >around. The kindergarden where my son is was looking for a paint/image >editing/simple animation program for the oldest kids (5 years). Take a look at GCompris. It contains an painting and animation program, with vector graphics, clipart and a easy-to-use interface. And it=E2=80=99s= completely=20 translated into Norwegian (both Bokm=C3=A5l and Nynorsk) =2D-=20 Mvh. Karl Ove Hufthammer http://blogg.huftis.org/ E-post og Jabber: ka...@hu... |