Thread: [TuxKart-devel] Use ODE?
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From: Ryan F. <rf...@gm...> - 2004-06-28 20:40:48
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Well, I think we should decide soon whether or not we should use ODE. Time to vote. And by "vote" I'm mean "discuss until almost everybody is leaning the same way" :) I'll toss in my vote: I don't think we should use ODE. No one here seems to know it, meaning it could take a *long* time (a lot longer than estimated) just to get it up-and-running. Also, TuxKart's physics don't seem like they will be too complicated that they will need an engine the size of ODE. Current physics seem not bad as they are, we just need a few new features like sliding, etc. -- Ryan |
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From: Steve B. <sjb...@ai...> - 2004-06-28 21:25:09
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Ryan Flegel wrote:
> Well, I think we should decide soon whether or not we should use ODE.
Good idea!
> Time to vote. And by "vote" I'm mean "discuss until almost everybody
> is leaning the same way" :)
Yes - that's the way to proceed. Votes are for tie-breakers.
> I'll toss in my vote:
>
> I don't think we should use ODE. No one here seems to know it, meaning
> it could take a *long* time (a lot longer than estimated) just to get
> it up-and-running.
I've played with it enough to know that it's not too hard to integrate.
The demo programs are pretty easy to understand and the API is very simple.
The tricky things that make me wonder whether it's the right thing or
not are:
1) Collision detection. Should we use ODE's collision detection? If not,
how hard is it to integrate PLIB's collision detection scheme? ODE can
use external collision checks.
2) Parameter 'tweaking'. How hard will it be to adjust friction, spring
stiffness and damper coefficients to make the karts behave 'nicely'.
3) Tyre dynamics are hard. They are hard for non-ODE approaches too.
These are worrysome things - but if we made it work, the results would
be amazing.
Everyone who even THINKS about speaking against ODE should DEFINITELY
download a copy and try out the little 3 wheeled kart demo. *PLEASE*
give this a try. It's exceedingly compelling.
> Also, TuxKart's physics don't seem like they will be too complicated
> that they will need an engine the size of ODE. Current physics seem
> not bad as they are, we just need a few new features like sliding,
> etc.
Well - yes. The results certainly won't be as nice as ODE. (Try the
kart demo!!!) But it may be easier to put together and be more
controllable in the end.
Did I mention that you should try the demo?
---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...> WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
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From: Ryan F. <rf...@gm...> - 2004-06-29 09:21:30
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On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:27:27 -0500, Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...> wrote: > Everyone who even THINKS about speaking against ODE should DEFINITELY > download a copy and try out the little 3 wheeled kart demo. *PLEASE* > give this a try. It's exceedingly compelling. Sorry.. I must be retarded.. where can I find the demo? :) -- Ryan |
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From: Steve B. <sjb...@ai...> - 2004-06-29 21:49:59
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Ryan Flegel wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:27:27 -0500, Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...> wrote: > > >>Everyone who even THINKS about speaking against ODE should DEFINITELY >>download a copy and try out the little 3 wheeled kart demo. *PLEASE* >>give this a try. It's exceedingly compelling. > > > Sorry.. I must be retarded.. where can I find the demo? :) Assuming you downloaded ODE, unzipped and untarred it, it's in the 'ode/tests' directory. It's called 'test_buggy.cpp' ---------------------------- Steve Baker ------------------------- HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...> WorkEmail: <sj...@li...> HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org Projects : http://plib.sf.net http://tuxaqfh.sf.net http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M- V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++ -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- |
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From: pmb <phi...@vi...> - 2004-06-28 21:27:44
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I vote not to use ODE. We don't need all that complexity. I think we should work on adding some kind of basic physics game functions to PLIB, it would be sooo great. Just my opinion. |
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From: Steve B. <sjb...@ai...> - 2004-06-28 21:40:51
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pmb wrote: > I vote not to use ODE. We don't need all that complexity. I think we > should work on adding some kind of basic physics game functions to PLIB, > it would be sooo great. I'm not 100% behind ODE - but complexity isn't the problem. There isn't much complexity in the INTERFACE to ODE - it wouldn't add much code. There is vast complexity INSIDE ODE - but we don't care much about that. The car simulator I tried (and failed) to make work with ODE needed about 200 lines of code to interface to ODE. The ODE demo program for a 3 wheeled kart is about 350 lines in total - including graphics interface, user interface, etc. A home-made physics module would certainly be more than 350 lines of code. The present (really crappy) physics for TuxKart is about that size already! The problems with ODE in my case were all with the tuning of parameters in ODE using 'real world' numbers from real cars. I could have made a car that behaved itself much more easily - but I *needed* to input real spring parameters, real dimensions, real masses and hard-to-obtain things like rotational intertia coefficients. For a Kart simulator, we could take the parameters from the ODE demo and tweak them a bit. Like I said - you should try the ODE kart demo before passing judgement. ---------------------------- Steve Baker ------------------------- HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...> WorkEmail: <sj...@li...> HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org Projects : http://plib.sf.net http://tuxaqfh.sf.net http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M- V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++ -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- |
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From: pmb <phi...@vi...> - 2004-06-28 22:22:07
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> Like I said - you should try the ODE kart demo before passing judgement. I did try it. I was really convinced for a 350 line program. However, when the speed was too high, it would not turn correctly. There was also a Falling object example, witch I liked really realistic. It could be used to make a falling rock effect, like in certain map, exaple: Near a volcano, there is falling rocks, it would be realistic. |
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