Trademarks, car textures, ads

2013-05-30
2015-08-01
1 2 > >> (Page 1 of 2)
  • Iwan Gabovitch (qubodup)

    Hi, let's discuss the car textures and the changes to car branding and advertisements in svn.

    There was some discussion in
    https://sourceforge.net/p/trigger-rally/discussion/527953/thread/301aea42/?limit=25#8556

    Evo, Seat and Focus textures are non-free: the images are from unknown sources (copyright infringement) and they contain lots of trademarks. I created replacements with fictional car brands/names (cordon, eva, fox) and advertisements based on FOSS project names and FOSS command line tools.

    My position is that copyright and trademark law needs to be followed without a company having to complain first. I also oppose giving advertisement to non-free products/projects.

    Using non-free trademarks gives the brand owners power over Trigger Rally in being able to require it to change the use of the trademark. Not to speak of the power of being advertised to Trigger Rally players. I do not agree with a "let's deal with it if it comes to it" sentiment, I believe the project should own what it consists of, which is part of why I'm invested into replacing all copyright-questionable files (hopefully there won't be any before the next release).

    Fictional brands and ads are fine for me. I don't insist on the names, logos and replacement-ads that I chose but would prefer to keep them.

    Looking forward to hearing your position.

     
  • landroni

    landroni - 2013-05-30

    Iwan, could we move this to the devel ML? I'd like Jasmine and Ishmael to be able to contribute. Thanks!

     
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2013-05-30

    To keep it short: I share Iwan's viewpoint.

     
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2013-08-03

    I just built Trigger Rally from SVN again. I can't remember how I got version 0.6.2 with eight more tracks and Iwans car textures. Did you change the SVN back to the older version 0.6.0 or am I delusional?

    I even had the projection of the color map on the sprites again. Has Sourceforge switched to an older backup recently? I thought Jasmine committed the projection fix weeks ago...

     
    Last edit: Onsemeliot 2013-08-03
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-17

    Today I had my first try on making a new car texture. The mapping is not always as I would expect, but I hope I managed something you will enjoy.

    I started from Iwans Evo-Texture. What do you think?

     
    Last edit: Onsemeliot 2015-05-17
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-17

    Good work, looking good. The one thing I don't like that much are the wheels, but that's only because I'm a great fan of white rims!

    My suggestion for future skins would be to make the side logos bigger and fewer. For example in your skin, a big Apache feather, rotated to flow with the yellow color would look a bit better (in my opinion).


    I just updated the two images because I discovered some issues I resolved now. (I accidently adapted Andreis post instead of mine and can't remove the attachments any more. Therefore I'm stuck with editig Andreis post instead of my own. Sorry for that mess. Onsemeliot)

     
    Last edit: Onsemeliot 2015-05-17
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-17

    The one thing I don't like that much are the wheels, but that's only because I'm a great fan of white rims!

    White rims shouln't be a big deal.

    My suggestion for future skins would be to make the side logos bigger and fewer.

    Orioginally I wanted to do it like that, but then I got carried away with filling up empty spaces. I guess It's better to add even more textures for the moment than to optimize one further and further. Just to have a start for the option of switching textures - how ever you plan to implement that.

    I made an other adaptation since the windows didn't look that good.

     
    Last edit: Onsemeliot 2015-05-17
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-17

    I'll see what I can do about implementing vehicles.config tomorrow.

    If I manage to do this, map settings for vehicles will be ignored and vehicles will be enabled or disabled globally from a single XML file. Then we'll be able to change the vehicle folder names to whatever we want (from "evo", "seat" and "focus") and also add new vehicles, without having to edit all the maps.

     
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-17

    @Onsemeliot how about you create a new Evo skin that matches the red car in the icon you made?

    Also some ideas for car ads: Dev-C++, TDM-GCC MinGW, 7-Zip (some OSS for Windows basically). Also to consider simply putting the name of the fictitious car manufacturer as an ad, after we decide on some better names. I attached a car picture for inspiration.

    EDIT: and also just to be on the safe side, we should probably make it clear in the docs that the authors of the projects whose icons we're using don't support Trigger Rally.

     
    Last edit: Andrei 2015-05-17
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-17

    I made an other skin for the Ford.

    I think for matching the car on the icon I should make a new model as well.

     
    Last edit: Onsemeliot 2015-05-17
  • Iwan Gabovitch (qubodup)

    The Blender logo might be non-free, so that a texture using it couldn't be freely licensed either http://www.blender.org/about/logo/ . No idea about the other logos.

    I don't like real software logos on Trigger cars, as it makes no sense that a real open source would be advertised on real rally cars. Hardly any of them have logos that look commercial-grade (which is what you expect from expensive ads) and I don't like real ads in games, even if I support the product.

    The idea of the ads in my textures is that the products are fictional (the logos are) and that the names are ironically open source software/gamedev names/commands. Ideally the ads would be completely fictional though.

    I do like the colors of the second texture. It seems to look too dark in-game though.

    As for implementing more textures, it'd be great if we could switch textures/skins/paintjobs with up/down in the car selection without creating new vehicles.

     
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-18

    I don't like real software logos on Trigger cars ...

    Well, this is disappointing since we discussed in length about it and I searched for good logo files quite some time. (Ok, Blender is a no-go. I didn't check that.) I can replace the logos for fake logos, but its frustrating to do it all over again after in vesting so much time.

    ... as it makes no sense that a real open source would be advertised on real rally cars.

    That's true. But I can't see why this should hinder us to promote free software projects in a game.

    Hardly any of them have logos that look commercial-grade ...

    I disagree. Most of them are actually quite good, professional logos. (Obviously not all of them.)

     
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-18

    As for implementing more textures, it'd be great if we could switch textures/skins/paintjobs with up/down in the car selection without creating new vehicles.

    That's a good idea for the future, but I cannot do it now. Currently the code leaves it to the car model to chain-load the texture for itself. In other words they're entangled and should be treated as one indivisible unit, for now.

     
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-18

    I made an other adaptation. Some fake-logos might still need some work.

     
    Last edit: Onsemeliot 2015-05-18
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-18

    Nice work Onsemeliot. I still have a very strong preference for simple white rims though as in attached picture, but that's just personal taste after all.

    Looking good overall, keep making them because pretty soon we'll get to use some of them!

     
    Last edit: Andrei 2015-05-18
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-18

    And here comes an other adaptation.

    I still have a very strong preference for simple white rims

    Since we might want to have more variation we can still add simplified wheels with white rims.

     
    Last edit: Onsemeliot 2015-05-18
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-19

    The tail lights look as if they're part of the ads.

    Hm. This is hard to avoid when I use strong colors on the car as well as on the lights. I could lower the saturation of the colors on the car and then the lights would stick out more. (But I think covering the lights with paint doesn't look so well - even in real life.) I deliberately lightened up the colors because Iwan felt the first texture draft was to dark.

     
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-19

    I tried to make the texture less flashy and at the same time the back lights more plastic.

     
    Last edit: Onsemeliot 2015-05-19
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-20

    Looking better. I would suggest that the yellow "eye" of the tail lights have an orange boundary instead of black, and the black boundary of the red eye be thinner. In addition I think you should add embossed lines to break up the bodywork in pieces. (You already did this for the rest of the car.)

    A very rough representation of what I'm thinking about:

     
    Last edit: Andrei 2015-05-20
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-20

    I worked on the texture again:

     
    Last edit: Onsemeliot 2015-05-20
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-20

    Good work Onsemeliot. I think you're getting close to the limit of how good a car can be made to look in this game with the current rendering code.

    One last thing you can try is to add shading to give the car some artificial curvature and detail. The attached screenshots are from an old game: observe how round the cars appears to be, even though their model is about as flat as a cube.

    Of course your efforts will be hindered by the fact that Trigger Rally already shades the cars, so any "artificial shading" effect will get drowned, more or less.

     
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-23

    I will work on further improvements as soon as I can.

    In response to Iwans feature request: I have no strong feelings about the car names. In future we should probably limit the options somehow since it wouldn't be very practical to have too many cars to switch through. Maybe it would be helpful to have some information for each car in the selection menu as well since the color and shape alone might not be the best guidance to decide which one to use if you are not already familiar with all models.

    I will check as soon as possible if the free software projects are fine with being put on our texture and I will not do any other texture proposals with real brands or projects.

    By the way: Iwan, thank you very much for the well prepared SVG-files. Without them I wouldn't have known where to start.

     
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-23

    Car name suggestions:

    • Ford Focus: "FMC Hocus" (folder "fhocus")
    • Mitsubishi Lancer: "Zaibatsu Sedan" (folder "zsedan")
    • SEAT Cordoba: "Martorell Coupé" (folder "mcoupe")
     
    Last edit: Andrei 2015-05-23
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-23

    Do you have any reason to choose these specific names? This is no argument against it. I'm just curious. I'm quite agnostic about the names as long as they are not legally protected and not too complicated.

     
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