tm4j-users

Re: [Fwd: [TM4J-users] TM4J and Software Architecture (3-tier)]

[Andreas F. <And...@gm...>]

Hi Harald,

thanks a lot for your answer. I really appreciate it (same goes for Bret´s
and everybody else´s help), as i really feel like stepping in the dark a
little bit at the moment.

Thanks also for your inspiration on the software architecture. Another
question, as you mentioned MVC.
How do you think Panckoucke works together with this pattern?

Could this be right:

Model: The abstract model which is generated through Panckoucke
View: The specific renderer e.g. Touchgraph
Controller: Panckoucke itself (a little bit imprecise)



> Are you allowed to tell us what you want to do / what kind of data you
> want to display and in which way ?

For sure, i want to display the relationships between Software Tools (the
files they create), which are used in order to get a certain work done.
For example, one first uses Word for writing the concept of a certain
problem, the produced Word File is then used as an "input" for a UML drawing
diagramm, like Rational Rose for example, this Rational Rose document is
then used for "input" for the generation of java files. So this whole
process makes up "links" between all of this software tools and i want to
display those links and the corresponding software tools as an graph within
an eclipse plugin.
The information for those links is already within a database, so i just need
to transform them into a Topic Map and then feed this Topic Map to
Panckouke.

One thing that´s bugging me all the time and where i would really appreciate
an answer:
Do you think it makes sense, to transform the Network Data, that is within
the Database at the moment into a Topic Map before i represent it as a
Graph? Or do you think it might be more useful to directly produce the input
file for a specific graph like Touchgraph for example.

My point is, that i need a strong querying possibility for the data. This
means a user should be able to query the graph something like this:

"Show me all Files which are are linked together, with the creation date of
those files being less than two days difference"

I don´t know at the moment, whether Tolog can handle such a complex request
(given that all of the needed data, like "creation date" is provided). And
if Tolog is not capable of not handling it, i would therefore need to query
the data on the Database via SQL anyway...

hmm... any ideas/thoughts on this? (i know it´s kind of off topic ;-) )


Hmm, Harald do you think it is possible to tell me a little bit more about
the TMNav Eclipse plugin? I really don´t know where to start at the moment.
What i need is also a tree view of the data... do you think this is possible
within Eclipse?

I always dreamed about incorporating the Hypergarph into Eclipse, but
thought of it as being quite tricky. And i only saw one other application
(Metrics on Sourceforge), which implemented the Touchgraph as part of an
Eclipse plugin.

Sorry for the long answers, and the wide range of topics (and questions ;-)
) i addressed within this e-mail but you´re really the only people i can
turn to with my problems as nobody i know has a clue about all of this ;-)

greetings and a nice evening to all of you
Andreas






> > Greeting to all
> > Andreas
> > 
> 
> Cheers
> Harald
> 
> P.S. Bret, could i have a copy of your app too please ? :)
> 
> 
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Re: [Fwd: [TM4J-users] TM4J and Software Architecture (3-tier)]

[Harald K. <sc...@ma...>]

Hi Andreas,

>=20
> Hi Harald,
>=20
> thanks a lot for your answer. I really appreciate it (same goes for Bret=
=B4s
> and everybody else=B4s help), as i really feel like stepping in the dark a=

> little bit at the moment.
>=20
> Thanks also for your inspiration on the software architecture. Another
> question, as you mentioned MVC.
> How do you think Panckoucke works together with this pattern=3F
>=20
> Could this be right:
>=20
> Model: The abstract model which is generated through Panckoucke
> View: The specific renderer e.g. Touchgraph
> Controller: Panckoucke itself (a little bit imprecise)

This is a good question really, I think that this is about right if you re=
ally want to squeeze Panckoucke into this seperation. =20

> > Are you allowed to tell us what you want to do / what kind of data you=

> > want to display and in which way =3F
>=20
> For sure, i want to display the relationships between Software Tools (th=
e
> files they create), which are used in order to get a certain work done.
> For example, one first uses Word for writing the concept of a certain
> problem, the produced Word File is then used as an "input" for a UML dra=
wing
> diagramm, like Rational Rose for example, this Rational Rose document is=

> then used for "input" for the generation of java files. So this whole
> process makes up "links" between all of this software tools and i want t=
o
> display those links and the corresponding software tools as an graph wit=
hin
> an eclipse plugin.
> The information for those links is already within a database, so i just =
need
> to transform them into a Topic Map and then feed this Topic Map to
> Panckouke.
>=20
> One thing that=B4s bugging me all the time and where i would really apprec=
iate
> an answer:
> Do you think it makes sense, to transform the Network Data, that is with=
in
> the Database at the moment into a Topic Map before i represent it as a
> Graph=3F Or do you think it might be more useful to directly produce the i=
nput
> file for a specific graph like Touchgraph for example.
>=20
> My point is, that i need a strong querying possibility for the data. Thi=
s
> means a user should be able to query the graph something like this:
>=20
> "Show me all Files which are are linked together, with the creation date=
 of
> those files being less than two days difference"
>=20
> I don=B4t know at the moment, whether Tolog can handle such a complex requ=
est
> (given that all of the needed data, like "creation date" is provided). A=
nd
> if Tolog is not capable of not handling it, i would therefore need to qu=
ery
> the data on the Database via SQL anyway...
>=20
> hmm... any ideas/thoughts on this=3F (i know it=B4s kind of off topic ;-) )

Well no problem, actually it is just a little bit off topic ...=20

This is really a difficult decision to make. In general, if you want to ma=
ke very specific queries (meaning that you know exactly which "questions" =
the user will ask) which mix only relationship information with data (like=
 which software created files not older than two days) then you probably a=
re better off with the sql solution. If you know which structure you need =
and the data you want to query is not that complex in terms of relationshi=
ps (associations / relations) between the different domains (topic types, =
entities) than you cant  beat a database.=20

In cases where you do not know what the user may want to ask or there are =
complex structures, topicmaps are your technology. IMHO this is the greate=
s advantage of TMs, you do not have to know what a user may want to do wit=
h it because TopicMaps modell  the knowledge / information they contain in=
 a network / graph like way which does not enforce any structural constrai=
nts.

There is one problem with your example as far as i understand the new tolo=
g. You cannot just build queries like a is older than b  [Kal please corre=
ct me if i am wrong]. You can modell the topicmap in a way which takes the=
se things into account, though.

> Hmm, Harald do you think it is possible to tell me a little bit more abo=
ut
> the TMNav Eclipse plugin=3F I really don=B4t know where to start at the mome=
nt.
> What i need is also a tree view of the data... do you think this is poss=
ible
> within Eclipse=3F

Mmm, this may sound rude, but if you never ever developed eclipse plugins,=
 then there is a book you should at least have a look at (everybody i know=
 how read this book told me that it is really worth it and i personally th=
ink that it is worth every cent and euro i payed for it): "Contributing to=
 eclipse by erich gamma".=20
Apart from that, it is quite easy to make tree views of some data with JFa=
ce and SWT. There is a TreeComponent which you only have to set a LabelPro=
vider and ContentProvider much like i Swing.=20


> I always dreamed about incorporating the Hypergarph into Eclipse, but
> thought of it as being quite tricky. And i only saw one other applicatio=
n
> (Metrics on Sourceforge), which implemented the Touchgraph as part of an=

> Eclipse plugin.

It is really quite simple to use TG in Eclipse, you just use it like in Sw=
ing and then embedd it into a=20
Composite using the SWT=5FAWT bridge (sorry guys, this is really off topic :=
) ).

If you want to know more technical details, then we should probably better=
 switch to private mail in order not to spam numerous people with eclipse =
development details ....

> Sorry for the long answers, and the wide range of topics (and questions =
;-)
> ) i addressed within this e-mail but you=B4re really the only people i can=

> turn to with my problems as nobody i know has a clue about all of this ;=
-)
>
No problem :) Hope i could help you a little bit...
=20
> greetings and a nice evening to all of you
> Andreas



Cheers,
Harald




=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
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Re: [Fwd: [TM4J-users] TM4J and Software Architecture (3-tier)]

[Andreas F. <And...@gm...>]

Hi Harald,

thanks for your kind answer.

 
> There is one problem with your example as far as i understand the new
> tolog. You cannot just build queries like a is older than b  [Kal please
> correct me if i am wrong]. You can modell the topicmap in a way which
takes these
> things into account, though.
> 

yes, that is exactely what i am thinking, too. It isn´t possible, as far as
i´ve seen, to incorporate such arithmetic expressions within my query.
And as this is a feature, my resutling programm should support (a query like
the above one, or let´s say a query similar to: "show all realtions done by
User -X- since the last two weeks") i am in the process of finding a
solution...

hm... maybe a combination of SQL and Tolog (with SQL being used for the
arithmetic stuff, which tolog can´t handle and Tolog for the more general
queries).

Any input on how to do this, is, of course, appreciated :-). (but i think
it´s better to talk about this in a seperate topic :-) )



> Mmm, this may sound rude, but if you never ever developed eclipse plugins,
> then there is a book you should at least have a look at (everybody i know
> how read this book told me that it is really worth it and i personally
> think that it is worth every cent and euro i payed for it): "Contributing
to
> eclipse by erich gamma". 
> Apart from that, it is quite easy to make tree views of some data with
> JFace and SWT. There is a TreeComponent which you only have to set a
> LabelProvider and ContentProvider much like i Swing. 
> 
oh no, that´s not rude, you´re absolutely right. I am currently in the
process of finding my way into the Eclipse PlugIn Development and i will
hunt down the book, you´ve reccomended.


> 
> > I always dreamed about incorporating the Hypergarph into Eclipse, but
> > thought of it as being quite tricky. And i only saw one other
> application
> > (Metrics on Sourceforge), which implemented the Touchgraph as part of an
> > Eclipse plugin.
> 
> It is really quite simple to use TG in Eclipse, you just use it like in
> Swing and then embedd it into a 
> Composite using the SWT_AWT bridge (sorry guys, this is really off topic
> :) ).
> 
> If you want to know more technical details, then we should probably better
> switch to private mail in order not to spam numerous people with eclipse
> development details ....

Thanks for this short introduction on how to this.

Thanks also for the offer of asking you. I guess i will come back to you in
a couple of days, if this is OK. ;-) Until then i´m going to get myself
knowledge onto the Eclipse Plugin development.


> No problem :) Hope i could help you a little bit...
Definitely, all of you guys on here are a great help for me.

Greetings
Andreas

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