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From: Joe E. <jen...@fl...> - 2007-10-30 07:39:55
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I finally managed to figure out how to draw 2003-era
"Panther"-style tabs on OSX. See here for a snapshot
of what's in my sandbox:
http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/screenshots/new-tile-screenshot.png
The notebook widget still needs one more change to
get the layout right (I thought I'd done this already,
but apparently not...); this should end up in CVS
in a couple of days, in time for the 8.5b3 release.
In related news, the ttk::combobox almost doesn't suck
anymore on OSX either. Those changes are already committed.
--Joe English
jen...@fl...
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From: Michael K. <mi...@mu...> - 2007-10-30 07:49:49
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Will that be optional? IMHO I see the styles being useful for different things (i.e., the old format where tabs are not static, new style for static tabs--think web browser vs. options dialog). -- Michael Kirkham President & CEO Muonics, Inc. http://www.muonics.com/ +1 (831) 612-9577 Tel +1 (831) 427-0769 Fax On Tue, 30 Oct 2007, Joe English wrote: > Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 00:39:53 -0700 > From: Joe English <jen...@fl...> > To: tkt...@li... > Cc: tcl...@li... > Subject: [Tile-dev] Breakthrough! Proper tabs on OSX! > > > I finally managed to figure out how to draw 2003-era > "Panther"-style tabs on OSX. See here for a snapshot > of what's in my sandbox: > > http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/screenshots/new-tile-screenshot.png > > The notebook widget still needs one more change to > get the layout right (I thought I'd done this already, > but apparently not...); this should end up in CVS > in a couple of days, in time for the 8.5b3 release. > > In related news, the ttk::combobox almost doesn't suck > anymore on OSX either. Those changes are already committed. > > > --Joe English > > jen...@fl... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Tktable-tile-dev mailing list > Tkt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tktable-tile-dev > |
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From: Joe E. <jen...@fl...> - 2007-10-30 16:35:45
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Michael Kirkham wrote: > > Will that be optional? IMHO I see the styles being useful for different > things (i.e., the old format where tabs are not static, new style for > static tabs--think web browser vs. options dialog). Out-of-the-box, not initially, but if you want an old-style notebook it will be possible to assemble one yourself by importing elements from other themes (e.g., [style element create Oldstyle.TNotebook.tab from aqua Notebook.tab] -- at least, that is, until Apple kills off QuickDraw). Built-in variant notebook styles are on the TODO list for Tile 0.9.*; this should include general-purpose styles like left/right/bottom tabs, and platform-specific styles like the Safari-style tabs Gerald mentioned. --Joe English |
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From: Will D. <Wil...@jp...> - 2007-10-30 16:50:49
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Joe, When you implement variant notebook styles, please include an option of no tabs at all, like the BWidget PagesManager. It's a need I run into regularly, and though the PagesManager works OK it's annoying to have to use a megawidget when ttk::notebook does everything right. Also, with PagesManager there's a call you have to make after all of the pages are defined so that it can compute the maximum size of any page; ttk::notebook just does this right, with no fuss. I asked for this once before, and you declined, saying it was easy enough to do in Tcl, which it is; but it's one of those things that has to be done exactly right. I think we'd get better GOOBE if ttk::notebook simply provided the behavior. Will On Oct 30, 2007, at 9:35 AM, Joe English wrote: > > Michael Kirkham wrote: >> >> Will that be optional? IMHO I see the styles being useful for >> different >> things (i.e., the old format where tabs are not static, new style for >> static tabs--think web browser vs. options dialog). > > Out-of-the-box, not initially, but if you want an old-style > notebook it will be possible to assemble one yourself by > importing elements from other themes (e.g., [style element > create Oldstyle.TNotebook.tab from aqua Notebook.tab] -- > at least, that is, until Apple kills off QuickDraw). > > Built-in variant notebook styles are on the TODO list > for Tile 0.9.*; this should include general-purpose styles > like left/right/bottom tabs, and platform-specific styles > like the Safari-style tabs Gerald mentioned. > > > --Joe English > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a > browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Tktable-tile-dev mailing list > Tkt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tktable-tile-dev ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Will Duquette, JPL | Wil...@jp... JNEM Dev Lead | http://eis.jpl.nasa.gov/~will (JPL Use Only) | It's amazing what you can do with the right tools. |
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From: Joe E. <jen...@fl...> - 2007-10-31 00:02:23
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Will Duquette wrote:
>
> When you implement variant notebook styles, please include
> an option of no tabs at all, like the BWidget PagesManager.
> It's a need I run into regularly, and though the PagesManager
> works OK it's annoying to have to use a megawidget when
> ttk::notebook does everything right. Also, with PagesManager
> there's a call you have to make after all of the pages are
> defined so that it can compute the maximum size of any page;
> ttk::notebook just does this right, with no fuss.
>
> I asked for this once before, and you declined, saying it
> was easy enough to do in Tcl, which it is; but it's one of
> those things that has to be done exactly right. I think
> we'd get better GOOBE if ttk::notebook simply provided the
> behavior.
BTW, ttk::notebook has been able to do this since around 0.7.6:
you can now say:
style theme settings default {
style layout Plain.TNotebook.Tab null
}
and a [ttk::notebook] with -style Plain.TNotebook won't
show any tabs.
See also:
<URL: http://www.flightlab.com/~joe/repos/themebag/groupbox.tcl >
for a Snit megawidget that implements an Aqua-style "group box"
(that's like a notebook controlled by a menubutton), which uses
this technique.
--Joe English
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From: Will D. <Wil...@jp...> - 2007-10-31 15:11:00
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Cool!
Will
On Oct 30, 2007, at 5:02 PM, Joe English wrote:
>
> Will Duquette wrote:
>>
>> When you implement variant notebook styles, please include
>> an option of no tabs at all, like the BWidget PagesManager.
>> It's a need I run into regularly, and though the PagesManager
>> works OK it's annoying to have to use a megawidget when
>> ttk::notebook does everything right. Also, with PagesManager
>> there's a call you have to make after all of the pages are
>> defined so that it can compute the maximum size of any page;
>> ttk::notebook just does this right, with no fuss.
>>
>> I asked for this once before, and you declined, saying it
>> was easy enough to do in Tcl, which it is; but it's one of
>> those things that has to be done exactly right. I think
>> we'd get better GOOBE if ttk::notebook simply provided the
>> behavior.
>
> BTW, ttk::notebook has been able to do this since around 0.7.6:
> you can now say:
>
> style theme settings default {
> style layout Plain.TNotebook.Tab null
> }
>
> and a [ttk::notebook] with -style Plain.TNotebook won't
> show any tabs.
>
> See also:
>
> <URL: http://www.flightlab.com/~joe/repos/themebag/groupbox.tcl >
>
> for a Snit megawidget that implements an Aqua-style "group box"
> (that's like a notebook controlled by a menubutton), which uses
> this technique.
>
> --Joe English
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop.
> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a
> browser.
> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Tktable-tile-dev mailing list
> Tkt...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tktable-tile-dev
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Duquette, JPL | Wil...@jp...
JNEM Dev Lead | http://eis.jpl.nasa.gov/~will (JPL Use Only)
| It's amazing what you can do with the right
tools.
|
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From: Michael K. <mi...@mu...> - 2007-10-30 20:08:02
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On Tue, 30 Oct 2007, Joe English wrote: > Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:35:44 -0700 > From: Joe English <jen...@fl...> > To: tkt...@li... > Subject: Re: [Tile-dev] Breakthrough! Proper tabs on OSX! > > > Michael Kirkham wrote: >> >> Will that be optional? IMHO I see the styles being useful for different >> things (i.e., the old format where tabs are not static, new style for >> static tabs--think web browser vs. options dialog). > > Out-of-the-box, not initially, but if you want an old-style > notebook it will be possible to assemble one yourself by > importing elements from other themes (e.g., [style element > create Oldstyle.TNotebook.tab from aqua Notebook.tab] -- > at least, that is, until Apple kills off QuickDraw). I guess we won't be upgrading until it is, then. This style is definitely not the right thing in many cases whereas the old style is at least passable for static tab sets. > > Built-in variant notebook styles are on the TODO list > for Tile 0.9.*; this should include general-purpose styles > like left/right/bottom tabs, and platform-specific styles > like the Safari-style tabs Gerald mentioned. > > > --Joe English > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Tktable-tile-dev mailing list > Tkt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tktable-tile-dev > |
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From: Joe E. <jen...@fl...> - 2007-10-31 00:14:15
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Michael Kirkham wrote: > > [Joe English] > > Out-of-the-box, not initially, but if you want an old-style > > notebook it will be possible to assemble one yourself by > > importing elements from other themes (e.g., [style element > > create Oldstyle.TNotebook.tab from aqua Notebook.tab] -- > > at least, that is, until Apple kills off QuickDraw). > > I guess we won't be upgrading until it is, then. This style is definitely > not the right thing in many cases whereas the old style is at least > passable for static tab sets. The old style will still be available, just not as a predefined, built-in style. It won't be hard to get it back if you need it. I'm reluctant to add *any* predefined custom styles right now: any design mistakes that get into Tk 8.5 are essentially carved in stone due to the core's backward-compatibility policies, and this is an area of Tile that's still beta-bordering-on-alpha. --Joe English |
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From: Kevin W. <kw...@co...> - 2007-10-30 11:34:47
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Joe English wrote: > I finally managed to figure out how to draw 2003-era > "Panther"-style tabs on OSX. See here for a snapshot > of what's in my sandbox: > > http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/screenshots/new-tile-screenshot.png > > The notebook widget still needs one more change to > get the layout right (I thought I'd done this already, > but apparently not...); this should end up in CVS > in a couple of days, in time for the 8.5b3 release. > > In related news, the ttk::combobox almost doesn't suck > anymore on OSX either. Those changes are already committed. > > > --Joe English > > jen...@fl... > Joe, Wonderful! I've been working on learning C and learning the Carbon API's to attack this very problem, because it's been the most glaring issue with Tile on OS X. Thank you so much for your work. I notice in the screenshot that the selected theme is "HITheme," not "Aqua." Is this a separate theme/style that will have to be explicitly chosen by the developer? Are there other differences between HITheme and Aqua besides the notebook tab? --Kevin -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com |
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From: Joe E. <jen...@fl...> - 2007-10-30 16:23:28
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Kevin Walzer wrote: > > I notice in the screenshot that the selected theme is "HITheme," not > "Aqua." Is this a separate theme/style that will have to be explicitly > chosen by the developer? Are there other differences between HITheme and > Aqua besides the notebook tab? Tile will use "hitheme" as the default theme if it's available, otherwise fall back to "aqua" (which should only happen on OSX 10.2). The current plan is to keep all the QuickDraw/Appearance Manager code in the "aqua" theme and use (only) Quartz/HITheme APIs in "hitheme". Initially "hitheme" will just contain elements that can *only* be implemented with CG, and inherit the rest from "aqua". We can reimplement the other elements at leisure, and hopefully end up with a self-contained, all-CG native theme by the time Apple decides to kill off QuickDraw entirely. --Joe English |
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From: Kevin W. <kw...@co...> - 2007-10-30 22:09:41
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Joe English wrote: > > Tile will use "hitheme" as the default theme if it's available, > otherwise fall back to "aqua" (which should only happen on OSX 10.2). > > The current plan is to keep all the QuickDraw/Appearance Manager > code in the "aqua" theme and use (only) Quartz/HITheme APIs in > "hitheme". Initially "hitheme" will just contain elements that > can *only* be implemented with CG, and inherit the rest from "aqua". > We can reimplement the other elements at leisure, and hopefully end up > with a self-contained, all-CG native theme by the time Apple > decides to kill off QuickDraw entirely. > Will these changes allow Tk to be built for 64-bit on OS X? I know that Carbon's GUI bits are 32-bit only, but I'm not sure about CG (its connection to Carbon is a bit hazy to me). -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com |
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From: Joe E. <jen...@fl...> - 2007-10-31 00:38:55
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Kevin Walzer wrote: > Will these changes allow Tk to be built for 64-bit on OS X? I know that > Carbon's GUI bits are 32-bit only, but I'm not sure about CG (its > connection to Carbon is a bit hazy to me). I don't know, but probably not. The relevant interface is "HITheme", which AIUI is part of "Carbon". --JE |
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From: Gerald W. L. <Ger...@co...> - 2007-10-30 12:38:38
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Joe English wrote: > I finally managed to figure out how to draw 2003-era > "Panther"-style tabs on OSX. See here for a snapshot > of what's in my sandbox: > > http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/screenshots/new-tile-screenshot.png > > The notebook widget still needs one more change to > get the layout right (I thought I'd done this already, > but apparently not...); this should end up in CVS > in a couple of days, in time for the 8.5b3 release. > In Leopard, there seems to be two styles of tabs that Apple uses. 1) The one on the "Date&Time" system preferences. That one almost looks like your screen shot except that the frame border "goes" to the middle of the tab buttons instead of the bottom. 2) The one that Safari uses. Will those be different "styles" to chose from? > In related news, the ttk::combobox almost doesn't suck > anymore on OSX either. Those changes are already committed. > > > --Joe English > > jen...@fl... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Tcl-Core mailing list > Tcl...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core > > -- +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Gerald W. Lester, Director of Technology, TicketSwitch USA LLC | | Cell: +1.504.292.3775 | | Email: ger...@ti... | |"The man who fights for his ideals is the man who is alive." - Cervantes| +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |
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From: Joe E. <jen...@fl...> - 2007-10-30 16:39:44
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Gerald W. Lester wrote: > > In Leopard, there seems to be two styles of tabs that Apple uses. > > 1) The one on the "Date&Time" system preferences. That one almost looks > like your screen shot except that the frame border "goes" to the middle > of the tab buttons instead of the bottom. > 2) The one that Safari uses. > > Will those be different "styles" to chose from? Not initially; see previous message. Possibly in Tile 0.9.*, it depends on whether or not they're available in HITheme. --Joe English |
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From: Kevin W. <kw...@co...> - 2007-11-08 16:09:01
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Joe English wrote: > I finally managed to figure out how to draw 2003-era > "Panther"-style tabs on OSX. See here for a snapshot > of what's in my sandbox: > > http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/screenshots/new-tile-screenshot.png > > The notebook widget still needs one more change to > get the layout right (I thought I'd done this already, > but apparently not...); this should end up in CVS > in a couple of days, in time for the 8.5b3 release. > > In related news, the ttk::combobox almost doesn't suck > anymore on OSX either. Those changes are already committed. > > > --Joe English > I just updated to CVS HEAD of Tk and didn't see the new notebook tabs...has this been committed yet? I'm on 10.4.10. --Kevin -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com |
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From: Joe E. <jen...@fl...> - 2007-11-08 20:49:53
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Kevin Walzer wrote: > Joe English wrote: > > I finally managed to figure out how to draw 2003-era > > "Panther"-style tabs on OSX. > [...] > I just updated to CVS HEAD of Tk and didn't see the new notebook > tabs...has this been committed yet? I'm on 10.4.10. No, I've been busy shaving yaks. There's still a ways to go before this works properly. Some updates: Safari-style tabs don't appear to be available in HITheme / Carbon, so Tile won't be able to do those. However, HIThemeDrawTab() still supports 10.2-style tabs, so those will be available for the foreseeable future if you need them. --Joe English |
