Re: [Tikiwiki-devel] tiki plan for 1.9 and further

[Marc L. <ma...@ma...>]

Hi!

I am pleased with all the great work which is getting done on Tiki 1.9. 
I welcome the project management feature in the main tiki codebase 
(instead of being in the mods). I look forward to the day where we 
manage Tiki (our community, bugs, RFEs, etc) completely within Tiki.

__However, I am worried about this change of direction concerning mods 
and removing parts of Tiki.__

Using the mods for themes, images packs and maybe even languages seems 
OK. However, for features, I'd prefer we stay the current course. aka 
the 3 Rules, mainly "make it optional". IMHO, one of the main advantages 
of Tiki over Postnuke, Xoops (and most of the other CMS/Groupware I can 
think of) is the centralized development. It is the fact that all the 
possible features are already integrated and only a click away.

I have several concerns with changing this model:

1- The power of transversal features & the need for a stable API:
If we start using mods for features, we need to supply an API. This API 
needs to be fairly stable and well thought out. It needs to encompass 
all the transversal features that make Tiki so powerful. Ex.:

*category system
*watch object
*Longitude & Latitude
*Search
*Users/Groups/Permissions/security
*RSS feeds
*Stats
*Language packs for mods
*Inclusion in the menu system
*Integration in admin panel
*blocks related to a mod
*mail templates related to a mod
*wiki syntax

I am worried that such an API will limit us in the future. Once you have 
30 or 40 features (mods) out on the loose, you can't easily modify your 
API. You always have to make it backward compatible. Transversal 
features are that much powerful when everyone is developing together. 
For example, Franck is adding Longitude & Latitude to different features 
in Tiki. Blogs, images, etc.  If the image gallery was a mod and not 
within Tiki, would Longitude & Latitude ever have been added?


2- Managing dependencies.
Currently, users don't have to manage versions & dependencies. They 
upgrade from 1.7 to 1.8 and everything follows. I remember the day there 
was a Postnuke security upgrade available but I could not apply it 
because a 3rd party mods was not yet ready. In the current Tiki setup, 
we don't have that problem.
"The mods is not following the branches schemes, as many features are 
not depending on the version used." -> I don't see how this is gonna work.

3- Multiple concurrent features / mods
In other CMSs, there can be 2, 3 or more modules/features which try to 
do the same thing. Some people see it as "choice" or "survival of the 
fittest". Too often, I see it as a waste of talent & energy. Often, all 
of these mods are bugged & incomplete. They often don't fit in well to 
the rest of the application. In Tiki, all devs are encouraged to work 
together on a common code base, building upon each other's work. If two 
devs want to work on a feature, I much prefer they both work directly in 
CVS and make all new features optional.

4- Managing translations of mods
Right now, we have a straightforward way of localizing Tiki. I think 
mods may make things more complicated.


My wish is that we limit the mods.tikiwiki.org to themes & image packs 
for now. Then, later, we can do languages and maybe even plugins. But I 
prefer we stay away from removing features such as TikiSheet, HomeWork, 
Galaxia, Maps, etc

"some requiring extra applications, not available on shared hostings, 
like tikimaps, tikisheet, "

Tiki Maps: Yes, Tiki Maps needs Mapserver and this is out of reach of 
many users. However, this is an incredibly cool feature. We have an 
active developer who is maintaining it and adding location data to many 
tiki objects. Image Gallery, Blog Post, Users, etc   How about offering 
(for-a-fee) a hosted access to Mapserver? When people activate Tiki 
Maps, they would get a warning that "MapServer is not installed. Please 
install or contact tiki-mapserver-hosting.com"

TikiSheet: I would much rather this stay in the main core. This is the 
missing link to make Tiki an Office Suite alternative. It is young and 
has a lot of potential. It fits right in with Tiki Groupware.
http://tikiwiki.org/art70

Homework: I have not tested it yet. However, the next acronym I would 
like to add to Tiki is LMS (Learning Management System)  ->  Tiki 
CMS/LMS/Groupware 

In short, my opinion:

-> Yes, let's "reduce the number of Branches",

-> Yes, let's "split the development in subgroups"  (dogfooding Tiki 
project and tiki trackers in the process)

-> Yes, to adding a rating/evaluation system on features to inform user 
of the stability/feature level of each feature. Ex.: Chat : 3/10 Wiki 9.5/10

-> Yes, to mods if for important features we can't integrate in Tiki 
because of licensing issues. (and that we don't want to write on our 
own). Example, a Squirrel Mail mods would be sweet. OScommerce too.

-> but no, to "change radically our development strategy"

Best regards,

M ;-)

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/                                                                /
/ Marc Laporte       <|>                  http://marclaporte.com /
/ Avantech.net       <|>                     http://avantech.net /
/ Tiki CMS/Groupware <|> http://tikiwiki.org/UserPagemarclaporte /
/                                                                /
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////



mose wrote:

>yo
>
>We produced damian and me a document about the current situation of
>the 1.9 release process as well as intentions for further moves.
>Anyone actively involdved in development in tikiwiki community should
>have an eye on :
>
>  http://tikiwiki.org/TikiPlan19
>
>.. to enhance, immprove and interact, upon our collaborative abilities
>in the limited time that is involved.
>
>
>cheers,
>mose
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal
>Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us
>Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more
>http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl
>_______________________________________________
>Tikiwiki-devel mailing list
>Tik...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
>
>  
>