thyapi-developers

[Thyapi-developers] Congrats on new release. Some comments.

[Leif W <war...@us...>]

Hello,

Congratulations with your second release.  I've barely had time to 
preview the first, and here's a new one.

* You need to include the GNU LGPL license file with each and every 
distribution.  All of your code must state that it is licensed under the 
LGPL at the top of each source code in the library.

* It'd be nice to mention more prominently that ThyAPI is based upon 
DynAPI, to give credit to all those dozens of developers that came 
before us, and not trivialized or take for granted their work.  Give 
proper respect.  Many of the core code still has the DynAPI and license 
comments, which is good.

* The naming convention I have mixed feelings about.  I understand the 
importance of treating all life forms as sacred, to make people more 
aware of the ones in danger.  But this is software and the names remind 
me of the annoying and obnoxious Microsoft tradition to call their 
software strange things that have nothing to do with anything and make 
it difficult to distinguish between products.  Personally, I need to see 
numbers or dates, I need to know what version is newer than another.  I 
need that number or date to come after the package name and before any 
superfluous descriptive name, so that it sorts nicely in my file folder, 
or on your SourceForge download pages.  Even if you plan to release a 
TXT file or HTML matrix of all versions, it requires too much time and 
energy from my already short supply.  perhaps a compromise, like 
package-version-genus-species or preferably 
package-version-date-genus-species.  I realize that this necessitates 
making the numbers more important than the animals, and may have 
detriment to the attention it brings in the early releases.  But later 
on when you have 50 old versions, it won't be such a nightmare.  :p

* Looking forward to learning how to backport any browser-specific bugs 
to DynAPI proper.

* Wondering how you handled the automatic documentation system.

* I am still waiting for examples.  :p  Descriptions are great for a 
reference manual, but I have no idea about any of that.  I am a visual 
learner.  I learn by seeing pictures, or by dynamic examples with well 
documented code.

Well, keep up the good work and best regards to you all,

Leif

Re: [Thyapi-developers] Congrats on new release. Some comments.

[Leif W <war...@us...>]

> From: "frank" <fr...@th...>
> Sent: 2005 August 23 Tuesday 07:07
>

>> Em Seg, 2005-08-22 =E0s 21:29 -0400, Leif W escreveu:
>
> But it is not a matter of choice, we choose it because there are a=20
> very
> complicated situation in natural life in our country, some day I will
> write something about in faq and will be clear why we choose this.

Well, a moment to consider it ...

While the amount of life in the rain forests far surpasses that of my=20
temperate North American climate, I have seen natural habitats destroyed=20
for protected species, within the neghborhood of my own childhood.=20
House builders simply paid money to local politicians, hired attorneys=20
that none of us normal people can afford, and ignored several government=20
studies declaring the land as home for a spawning ground for amphibians.=20
It feels like there's nothing I can do.  It seems like most people have=20
the sole purpose to be greedy and destroy defenseless life, regardless=20
of the consequences.  They can see only as far ahead as 18 months,=20
perhaps in some cases as far as their retirement or their children's=20
young adulthood.  No farther.  As long as their houses are big, their=20
bellies are fat, and their kids can live life stupid instead of learning=20
and working and making contributions, then people will be hell-bent on=20
ensuring their income is maintained or usually that it grows=20
disproportionaly compared to inflation.  They won't be satisfied until=20
the planet is a deserted wasteland, devoid of all life but humans,=20
bacteria and cockroaches.  All they can think is that they'll make a=20
fortune selling services that mother nature previously provided free of=20
charge, free of thought, free of worry, services that are far=20
inadequate, inefficient, and inferior to nature.  (Think of the energy=20
spent to make activated carbon, plastics, metals, computers to design=20
and manufacture water filtration systems, which work for a few weeks or=20
months then fill a dump and release poisons, killing off more life, and=20
you can imagine that when man tries to do the job of nature, the result=20
is exponentially raised to the exponential degree more wasteful).  Even=20
then, the earth may yet survive.  Of course, the past 4.5 billion years=20
of evolution will have been destroyed within the last 200 years, the=20
cosmic equivalency of spontaneous combustion, the nature and the legacy=20
of mankind.  However the earth will survive us all and will start the=20
process of life again, so long as conditions exist for amino acids to=20
form.  But with a sun's life span of about 20 billion years, and no=20
guarantee that conditions for the creation of life will ever exist=20
again, it is beyond foolish, it is treacherous and dangerous, to risk=20
all the marvelous forms of life that do exist.  I've been aware of=20
things since childhood, and also that the only solution is to kill a=20
whole lot of people to relieve the strain upon natural resources, and to=20
go back to a pre-industrial, agrarian way of life, with all tools being=20
made by hand from animal, wood, or stone, no metals, which involves=20
mining and smelting and the destructions and poisons that birngs.  I've=20
yet to meet anyone willing to do this, much less walk the 500 feet to=20
the corner store instead of driving their SUV and leave it running for=20
10 minutes while they go inside.

>>  Personally, I need to see
>> numbers or dates, I need to know what version is newer than another.=20
>> I
>
> I do agree with you, probably there are more people in this situation,
> so my proposal is we. keep the version numbers in dowload files. What=20
> do
> you think about? Thake a look in concisus in sf, we are already doing=20
> it
>
>> package-version-date-genus-species.  I realize that this necessitates
>
> :)

Err, I hope that explaiend what I thought as the best compromise.  In=20
any case, names of endangered species are better than the sort of names=20
I'd come up with, "Spinning Wheel", "Flippant Punk", "Swallow=20
Didjeridoo", "Black Flamingo" ...

>> * Looking forward to learning how to backport any browser-specific=20
>> bugs
>> to DynAPI proper.
>>
> We did not time to send our correction to Dynapi, yet. Because we are
> having a lot of job here, and we are try to run our business in a very
> hard time... but we will do it soon.

Well, I do have diff for files that are fairly similar, and text editors=20
otherwise.  Mainly I meant that I'd like to fix some of the bugs in=20
DynAPI, maybe by seeing if it existed in ThyAPI, and if not, how it was=20
solved.  If you did that, it would be really great, but I didn't expect=20
it.  It's hard enough to start a business, and very hard when you give=20
away the software for free.  You get paid entirely for skill and=20
original work, not like other companies that simply collect money for=20
past achievements, and do little to innovate.  So I understand, focus on=20
that rather than any other project.

>> * Wondering how you handled the automatic documentation system.
>>
> This was a serious question. We are php developers, so the first=20
> option
> was the phpdoc, however we did not have success in using it to perform
> javascript, and php documentation at same time. Probably my fault=20
> again,
> I was the guy to select the documentation tool. Well I did tested  lot=20
> o
> softwares to make this documentation. The goal was find a simple to=20
> use
> and fast to implement. Translation: I do not want learn a new
> programming language to document our code. During the tests I found
> Natural docs. A simple perl script in the svn pre commit and we have=20
> all
> code Documented at each commit.  That was enough for us. I future we
> will improve Natural docs javascript documentation and get even better
> result, at least I am learning perl for that...:)
> By the way that was another terrible mistake, we should put it on our
> site.

The topic was discussed a bit on the DynAPI mailing lists, with no solid=20
conclusions.  The best guesses were that DynAPI prototyping method would=20
need to be changed, or some other existing doc tool would need to be=20
made to understand, or some combination of both.  A non-trivial task.=20
jsdoc was one program mentioned.  Natural Docs looks impressive.  I=20
think there was another one mentioned, I forget.  Apart from bug fixing=20
and client-server stuff, auto generated docs I think are the most=20
important for DynAPI, followed closely by examples as part of a=20
comprehensive and cohesive tutorial, like the old DynDuo.

>> Well, keep up the good work and best regards to you all,
>
> No thank you for being using our project, and for suggestions.

Well, not so much a user of either (Dyn|Thy)API project, oddly as it=20
sounds.  I'm just trying to maintain DynAPI as best I can in spare time.=20
:p

Leif

Fwd: [Thyapi-developers] Congrats on new release. Some comments.

[Vinicius C. B. <vin...@gm...>]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Vinicius Cubas Brand <vin...@gm...>
Date: 23/08/2005 09:40
Subject: Re: [Thyapi-developers] Congrats on new release. Some comments.
To: Leif W <war...@us...>

Hi Leif...

2005/8/22, Leif W <war...@us...>:
>=20
> Hello,
>=20
> Congratulations with your second release. I've barely had time to
> preview the first, and here's a new one.
>=20
> * You need to include the GNU LGPL license file with each and every
> distribution. All of your code must state that it is licensed under the=
=20
> LGPL at the top of each source code in the library.


Ok, we're correcting this...


* It'd be nice to mention more prominently that ThyAPI is based upon
> DynAPI, to give credit to all those dozens of developers that came=20
> before us, and not trivialized or take for granted their work. Give
> proper respect. Many of the core code still has the DynAPI and license
> comments, which is good.


There is a reference in our documentation and also in the description of ou=
r=20
project in sourceforge. DynAPI is very good code and is a solid base to=20
build widgets, as we're doing in thyapi.


* The naming convention I have mixed feelings about. I understand the..
>=20
>=20
We'll change this also. We are thinking in something like in Ubuntu, while=
=20
it maintains a release number, each version has a codename. This seems to m=
e=20
the best option.

* Looking forward to learning how to backport any browser-specific bugs
> to DynAPI proper.=20


We've changed DynAPI very few, as we were thinking in take advantage of=20
DynAPI updates. Fortunately we can extend the objects that we want to chang=
e=20
in child classes. Recently, Raphael told me of some feature that would need=
=20
a change in some DynAPI class, I am not sure now which class. I think that=
=20
some performance optimizations would be good in the near future.

* Wondering how you handled the automatic documentation system.


Saw Franks answer... Natdoc is awesome!

* I am still waiting for examples. :p Descriptions are great for a
> reference manual, but I have no idea about any of that. I am a visual=20
> learner. I learn by seeing pictures, or by dynamic examples with well
> documented code.



This is our main priority at the moment. Very main priority. We're going to=
=20
do some examples.

Well, keep up the good work and best regards to you all,
>=20

Thank you! and thank you for your feedback! we are doing the possible to=20
make the work the best as possible.=20

Regards, Vinicius

--=20
.----------------------.
| Vinicius Cubas Brand |
| viniciuscb gmail.com <http://gmail.com> |
'----------------------'
Thyamad Projects - http://www.thyamad.com
Turn Information into Productivity
Phone +55 41 30133867 - ICQ# 31027458=20
MSN: vc...@ho... - skype: viniciuscb
--------------------
Concisus - http://concis.us=20
ThyAPI - http://thyapi.thyamad.com
eAccelerator - http://www.eaccelerator.net=20
eGroupWare - http://www.egroupware.org
------
Be the change you want to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi=20

--=20
.----------------------.
| Vinicius Cubas Brand |
| viniciuscb gmail.com <http://gmail.com> |
'----------------------'
Thyamad Projects - http://www.thyamad.com
Turn Information into Productivity
Phone +55 41 30133867 - ICQ# 31027458=20
MSN: vc...@ho... - skype: viniciuscb
--------------------
Concisus - http://concis.us=20
ThyAPI - http://thyapi.thyamad.com
eAccelerator - http://www.eaccelerator.net
eGroupWare - http://www.egroupware.org
------
Be the change you want to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi

Fwd: [Thyapi-developers] Congrats on new release. Some comments.

[Raphael D. P. <rap...@gm...>]

I sent private... sorry...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Raphael Derosso Pereira <rap...@gm...>
Date: 23/08/2005 09:43
Subject: Re: [Thyapi-developers] Congrats on new release. Some comments.
To: Leif W <war...@us...>

Hi,

2005/8/23, Leif W <war...@us...>:
>=20
> > From: "frank" <fr...@th...>
> >> package-version-date-genus-species. I realize that this necessitates
> >
> > :)
>=20
> Err, I hope that explaiend what I thought as the best compromise. In=20
> any case, names of endangered species are better than the sort of names
> I'd come up with, "Spinning Wheel", "Flippant Punk", "Swallow
> Didjeridoo", "Black Flamingo" ...


I got it. Don't worry... :-)


> Well, I do have diff for files that are fairly similar, and text editors
> otherwise. Mainly I meant that I'd like to fix some of the bugs in=20
> DynAPI, maybe by seeing if it existed in ThyAPI, and if not, how it was
> solved. If you did that, it would be really great, but I didn't expect
> it. It's hard enough to start a business, and very hard when you give=20
> away the software for free. You get paid entirely for skill and
> original work, not like other companies that simply collect money for
> past achievements, and do little to innovate. So I understand, focus on
> that rather than any other project.



I was the guy who did most of the code and I assure you I tried the most to=
=20
keep it compatible with DynAPI.

The only modifications I remember I did on DynAPI code was to remove a styl=
e=20
size setting algorithm on browser specific _create method to allow CSS=20
priority, otherwise element style setting got preference and the whole CSS=
=20
abstraction would be broken. But I commented the code.


> >> Well, keep up the good work and best regards to you all,
> >
> > No thank you for being using our project, and for suggestions.
>=20
> Well, not so much a user of either (Dyn|Thy)API project, oddly as it
> sounds. I'm just trying to maintain DynAPI as best I can in spare time.
> :p


Great!

We could also get some coordination to keep code synched.

Thanks,
--=20
Raphael Derosso Pereira
icq: 4517421
msn: rde...@ho...
Phone: +55 41 3013-3867
_____________________

Turn Information into Productivity=20
_____________________
http://www.thyamad.com
http://concis.us
http://thyapi.thyamad.com
http://www.eaccelerator.net=20

--=20
Raphael Derosso Pereira
icq: 4517421
msn: rde...@ho...
Phone: +55 41 3013-3867
_____________________

Turn Information into Productivity
_____________________
http://www.thyamad.com
http://concis.us
http://thyapi.thyamad.com
http://www.eaccelerator.net