#2460 StaffGroup barlines should be whited-out to allow better Lyrics and Dynamics placement

[Anonymous]

Originally created by: *anonymous

Originally created by: janek.li...@gmail.com
Originally owned by: janek.li...@gmail.com

Long lyric syllabes sometimes collide with barlines connecting staves.  Currently Lily tries to avoid this by moving notes with Lyrics away from the barline.  This isn't an optimal solution, because it distorts rhythmic placement of notes.

I suggest that such situations should be handled in the following way:
- if the overlap with barline is small (less than 1 staffspace?), try moving the syllabe alone away from the barline (as discussed in "Lyrics shouldn't distort rhythmical placement of notes")
- if the overlap is bigger or its impossible to move the syllabe, a white-out should be used

see engraved examples - one attached, more here:
http://lilypond-stuff.1065243.n5.nabble.com/examples-for-Lyric-report-barline-whiteout-td5607357.html

This issue is a part of the Lyrics Project.  See related entries:
issue 2450
issue 2451
issue 2452
issue 2453
issue 2454
issue 2455
issue 2456
issue 2457
issue 2458
issue 2459
issue 2460
issue 2461
issue 2462

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Originally posted by: x.sche...@gmail.com

The same idea (and mechanism) could/should be used for DynamicText
colliding with cross-staff barlines, tracked as issue 621 .
If someone fix this issue, please consider issue 621 as related, IMHO.

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Originally posted by: janek.li...@gmail.com

Definitely!  Thanks for the catch.  I'm changing title to reflect that.

Summary: StaffGroup barlines should be whited-out to allow better Lyrics and Dynamics placement

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Originally posted by: PhilEHol...@googlemail.com

I'm not saying this isn't an improvement, but if vocal music is set properly, it's not actually a problem.  Gould again, page 463: .. barline on the left of the system... "Otherwise, each vocal stave always has separate barlines, to avoid intersecting the text."

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Originally posted by: janek.li...@gmail.com

I generally agree that vocal scores shouldn't have barlines across the whole StaffGroup.  However, i see two possible cases when they might be acceptable:
- when someone wants to reproduce an old score which uses this
- in full score for conductor: barlines spanning whole ChoirStaff can improve the visual separation of the group from other groups.  This would be especially helpful in a multi-chorus score: imagine a piece for 2 SATB choirs and 6 soloists in two gropus (and no instruments).  Without staffGroup barlines it would be hard to distinguish the vocal groups from themselves.

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Originally posted by: simon.al...@mail.de

I’m a great fan of StaffGroup for choral music. I think it looks much better and improves legibility, not only within larger systems, but also between systems. Gould is a reliable reference, but for some things it’s still a matter of style and not of right or wrong.
For example, the great B&H engravings of Peter Cornelius’ op.11 (available on IMSLP) use SpanBars and whites out longer syllables over them. If this is the case, there should be no collision handling, of course.