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#1785 Compressible space before the first note of a line ?

Accepted
nobody
None
Ugly
2014-11-02
2011-07-27
Anonymous
No

Originally created by: *anonymous

Originally created by: k-ohara5...@oco.net

Things like Clefs and KeySignatures have a list of parameters (space-alist) specifying the space there should be to the following item.  Many of these specifications request 'fixed' space before the first note on each line. 

The code and comments make it clear that 'fixed' space is not meant to be compressible, but since a seemingly accidental change four years ago, it has been.

Patch at <http://codereview.appspot.com/4188051/> posted with the one for issue 1779 since they affect the same code, but the fixes are separable -- we can commit patches for either this or 1779 or both.

I could find no discussion of this point, so am inclined to restore the intent of the code.  No regression test breaks, some look tidier, especially the medieval stuff.  Any comments ?

2 Attachments

Related

Issues: #2272

Discussion

  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-07-27

    Originally posted by: lemniska...@gmail.com

    Nice catch!

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-07-27

    Originally posted by: lemniska...@gmail.com

    However, i'm not so sure now.  The comment in line 202 /* ensure that the "fixed" distance will leave a gap of at least 0.3 ss. */ suggests that we do want this "fixed" space to be compressable (in extreme situations, i suppose).
    I agree that it compresses too much, though.
    Can we make it compressable, but less than now?
    It would be perfect if the compressability would depend on what is the last symbol before notes:
    - if it's clef, it should be uncompressable
    - if it's time signature, it can be a bit compressable
    - it it's key signature, it can be quite compressable

    I attach how it should look in my opinion.

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-07-27

    Originally posted by: lemniska...@gmail.com

    Oops, attached wrong file.  Correct one now.

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-07-28

    Originally posted by: k-ohara5...@oco.net

    There are 'internal' properties (undocumented and probably not meant to be adjusted) that determine the compressibility independently depending on what is the last symbol before the notes.

    These properties are part of the 'space-alist's defined in define-grobs.scm and the entries can be fixed or semi-fixed.  Since they are not documented you have to study staff-spacing.cc to see how they work.  Also, the code has not changed much since 2002 so the way things are done might seem strange.

    I think we should move any discussion, about how the system works, over to lilypond-devel.

    I raised this bug only to warn people that I intend to restore the before-first-note space back to its former firmness.

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-08-05

    Originally posted by: lemniska...@gmail.com

    (No comment was entered for this change.)

    Owner: k-ohara5...@oco.net

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-08-20

    Originally posted by: k-ohara5...@oco.net

    (No comment was entered for this change.)

    Labels: -Patch-review

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-08-21

    Originally posted by: k-ohara5...@oco.net

    Fixed with commit cc88cd3680

    Given the suggestion of comment 4
    - if it's clef, it should be uncompressible
    - if it's time signature, it can be a bit compressible
    - it it's key signature, it can be quite compressible

    and the fact we had /completely/ compressible space after time signatures for four years, I also changed the space request after TimeSignature and KeySignature from fixed-space to a semi-fixed space.

    This produces as close to the desired output expressed in comment 5 as possible with the space-alist framework, and gives good results in less extreme examples. 

    Labels: fixed_2_15_9

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-08-21

    Originally posted by: k-ohara5...@oco.net

    (No comment was entered for this change.)

    Status: Fixed

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-08-22

    Originally posted by: janek.li...@gmail.com

    The notes look surprisingly close to time signature in first system, but if it's not possible to have more space there, i won't complain.

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-08-22

    Originally posted by: k-ohara5...@oco.net

    > The notes look surprisingly close to time signature in first system

    Yes, if we ask for semi-fixed-space the space /can/ compress on tight lines.
    However, the notes compress first.  The space was well-distributed in the music I checked.  I'll attach an example of a realistically-tight line.

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-08-22

    Originally posted by: janek.li...@gmail.com

    Ok, i'm fine.
    Could you send me the source of above example (or pdf)?  I'd like to check something.
    Thanks for your work!
    Janek

    Labels: -Priority-Medium

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-08-31

    Originally posted by: brownian.box@gmail.com

    Please, which commit ID?
    (I usually ask for this if an issue does not contain any "formal code to verify".)

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-08-31

    Originally posted by: k-ohara5...@oco.net

    Fixed with commit cc88cd3680

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-09-01

    Originally posted by: brownian.box@gmail.com

    (No comment was entered for this change.)

    Status: Verified

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2011-09-06

    Originally posted by: k-ohara5...@oco.net

    The fix to issue 1856  (people don't want the the space after a time signatures to stretch at all)  brings us back to the status shown in comment 1, with "fixed" space being rigid.

     
  • Google Importer

    Google Importer - 2014-11-02

    Originally posted by: k-ohara5...@oco.net

    Completely fixed space at the start of a line can be ugly (see comments above and
    http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2014-11/msg00032.html )

    Desired behavior:
    It seems clear that we want compressible-only space after time-signatures and similar.

    There is no setting for 'space-alist that gives compressible-only space.
    The 'space-alist mechanism is awkward and I strongly support a redesign. 
    It specifies distances 1) between reference points, and 2) between skylines, of each type of 'breakable' item like a TimeSignature and the following item.   Each of these distances can conceptually be fixed, compressible, stretchable, or both.

    Mark documented the current situation in issue 4024

    Labels: -Type-Defect -fixed_2_15_9 Type-Ugly
    Owner: ---
    Status: Accepted

     
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